Clutter Learns Linux

[Bruno]

Hi ClutterI think this is an fstab issue . . . . . can you first show me the output of the command:

$ ls -al /dev/hdb4

UT- This should have been placed in rcS.d as something like "S95......", not as "zip-mount"???

Don't think so . . . but to be sure, please show output of "ls -al /etc/rcS.d" as wellB) Bruno

[Cluttermagnet]

Okay Clutter, reboot . . . and after the reboot check if the /dev/hdb4 file exists:

$ ls -al /dev/hdb4

if it does the script worked Bruno

1s: "command not found"ls: "No such file or directory"

[Bruno]

1s: "command not found"

So the script failed

ls: "No such file or directory"

?? Hu ??Try again . . . .

$ ls -al /etc/rcS.d

** I am booting my Ubuntu . . . Bruno

[Cluttermagnet]

Hi ClutterI think this is an fstab issue . . . . . can you first show me the output of the command:

$ ls -al /dev/hdb4

Don't think so . . . but to be sure, please show output of "ls -al /etc/rcS.d" as wellB) Bruno

Going back and forth between 98SE and Ubuntu machines is a pain...But number of files in rcS.d increased from 32 to 33, and my new file zip- mount is in there."ls -al /etc/rcS.d" produced a table, the last line reads:"/console-screen.sh-rwxrwxr-x 1 root root 47 2007-04-05 13:26 zip-mount"Shouldn't this start out "/S95..." like you did for Eric? Edited April 5, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Urmas]

Hey, guys... here is the Eric/Bruno/Zip/Script thread... might be of use here:http://forums.scotsnewsletter.com/index.php?showtopic=15880

[Cluttermagnet]

So the script failed ?? Hu ??Try again . . . .

$ ls -al /etc/rcS.d

** I am booting my Ubuntu . . . Bruno

Syntax, syntax. My bad. I figured out it is not "1s" or "Is", it is "ls"-that's lower case "L" that worked for me. These darned fonts! So I did generate the complete table of the scripts and permissions in rcS.d. If you really need to see the entire table, I will import it over to my 98Se machine where I'm chatting with you from.

[Bruno]

".../etc/rcS.d/S95zipnode..."

You are correct Clutter, my mistake . . . . . so making the file would be:

$ sudo gedit /etc/rcS.d/S95zipnode

And making it executable would be

$ sudo chmod 755 /etc/rcS.d/S95zipnode

We will remove the "zip-mount" file later ;) Bruno

Hey, guys... here is the Eric/Bruno/Zip/Script thread... might be of use here: http://forums.scotsnewsletter.com/index.php?showtopic=15880

Thanks Urmas . . was searching for it

[Cluttermagnet]

Done. Rebooting..."Opening zip drive" Good!"Unable to mount the selected volume"(Insert zip disk and click on Zip Drive again)Drive is mounted. Zip disk icon appears. The text file on the disk is openable, and is displayed.Yaaaaaaay!!!

Edited April 5, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Bruno]

Okay . . . and after the reboot check if the /dev/hdb4 file is there:

$ ls -al /dev/hdb4

BrunoPS: You can remove the zip-mount file with "sudo rm /etc/rcS.d/zip-mount"PS2: Where did Clutter disappear to ??

[Cluttermagnet]

Okay . . . and after the reboot check if the /dev/hdb4 file is there:

$ ls -al /dev/hdb4

BrunoPS: You can remove the zip-mount file with "sudo rm /etc/rcS.d/zip-mount"

DoneAnd thank you! Thank you! Especially, thanks for your patience.Ahhh, what's a little syntax among friends? As I said, you guys are waaaay more fun than a Linux manual. Edited April 5, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Cluttermagnet]

Okay . . . and after the reboot check if the /dev/hdb4 file is there:

$ ls -al /dev/hdb4

Bruno

Returns:brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 3, 68 2007-04-05 14:06 /dev/hdb4BTW I wonder about that "68", as my numbers are supposed to be 3 and 64.Anyway, the silly zip drive works now.BTW I'm a little late for work. I'm off to work now- be back later... Edited April 5, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Urmas]

Scriptmagnet. Dude.

[Bruno]

brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 3, 68 2007-04-05 14:06 /dev/hdb4BTW I wonder about that "68", as my numbers are supposed to be 3 and 64.Anyway, the silly zip drive works now.

BRILLIANT !!!!!!Congrats Clutter ! BrunoPS: the 68 is indeed a bit odd . . . but who cares ??

[V.T. Eric Layton]

WOW! I was a little late getting in here this afternoon. Looks like I missed all the fun! Glad to see that you got your Zip working, Clutter. That's outstanding! Something to remember, though... in Linux, the OS will NOT mount a drive that does not have media installed. In other words, you won't be able to mount your CD/DVD player, floppy, or Zip unless you have something in them when you attempt the mount.And two very important tips that you should consider doing:1) Set up a ROOT account in Ubuntu. 2) Learn to use Vi/Vim editor.These two things have saved my arse countless times. For instance, if X crashes and you need to manipulate the xorg.conf file in order to restore X, you'll be in trouble because you won't be able to "sudo gedit" without the X system running. You'll be in a pure black/white screen command line mode. Gedit will not work in a non-graphical environment. However, if you have a ROOT account set up, you would just login as ROOT and edit the xorg.conf with Vi/Vim. I've had to do this many times in the past.Anyway, nothing critical to worry about at the moment. When you want to set up the ROOT account, there is a tutorial in Adam's Ubuntu Links thread. When you're ready to learn Vi/Vim, Bruno has a tutorial on his Tips page, I think. If you have questions, just ask.Have FUN with it! :)Later...~Eric

[Urmas]

And two very important tips that you should consider doing:1) Set up a ROOT account in Ubuntu. 2) Learn to use Vi/Vim editor.These two things have saved my arse countless times. For instance, if X crashes and you need to manipulate the xorg.conf file in order to restore X, you'll be in trouble because you won't be able to "sudo gedit" without the X system running. You'll be in a pure black/white screen command line mode. Gedit will not work in a non-graphical environment. However, if you have a ROOT account set up, you would just login as ROOT and edit the xorg.conf with Vi/Vim. I've had to do this many times in the past.Anyway, nothing critical to worry about at the moment. When you want to set up the ROOT account, there is a tutorial in Adam's Ubuntu Links thread. When you're ready to learn Vi/Vim, Bruno has a tutorial on his Tips page, I think. If you have questions, just ask.

Yes. Oh yes. Root account and (basic) ability to use "text based", "non GUI" text editor (Nano is another alternative; both Vim and Nano are already "present" in your Ubuntu) make a pretty good paddle when you find yourself "up" the proverbial creek.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Heh! I just had to use Vim and Root in my Ubuntu. My X crashed because of some fiddling I had to do regarding the screensaver problem from my other thread.

[Bruno]

Me too I agree with Eric here:

1) Set up a ROOT account in Ubuntu.

Simply give the command "sudo passwrd" and it will ask you for a (new) rootpassword . . you have to give it twice and after that you have a password and can do "su" to change to root privileges in the terminal ( see: Su and Root ) and can forget about using "sudo" at every command.

2) Learn to use Vi/Vim editor.

The Vi editor looks like a very complicated tool at first, a swiss army knife you have to learn to use . . . but once you get the hang of it you will see that it can be a lifesaver. When you have some time to spare get yourself some training with it . . . and I bet that once you know how to handle it you will, like myself, use it as editor for all your config files jobs. Bruno

[V.T. Eric Layton]

...and can forget about using "sudo" at every command.

Well, not quite... you'll still need your sudo privileges for many graphical uses, such as: Updates, Synaptic, Disk Management, and some back-up programs (Sbackup). Remember, once you set up your ROOT account, you'll have two passwords to deal with:1) Root password --> used in command line to access Root privileges.

Clutter@ClutterSystem:~$ suPassword: ********** (enter your root password)Clutter@ClutterSystem:~#

*Notice that the prompt changes from $ to #. Anytime you see the $, this designates limited user privileges. When you see #, this designates Root privileges (or limited sudo privileges).2) User password --> used to login to your Ubuntu, and also used for your sudo access.

Clutter@ClutterSystem:~$ sudo <command>Password: ********* (enter your user password)Clutter@ClutterSystem:~# (limited sudo privileges)

With your ROOT account set up, you'll probably find that you rarely have to sudo in terminal. You'll probably only need your sudo for graphical applications, like the ones noted above.

...once you know how to handle it you will, like myself, use it as editor for all your config files jobs. Bruno

Absolutely! I have come to prefer Vi/Vim over graphics based editors, like gedit. I rarely, if ever, open gedit these days. Once you learn how to use Vi/Vim, you'll find that editing with it is actually faster than with the graphical editors. It's good to at least know the minimal commands to use Vi/Vim. If you prefer using the graphic environment, continue to do so, by all means. However, know Vi/Vim... just in case. :)Later...

[Cluttermagnet]

Thanks, guys-This makes a lot of sense. Remember, I'm not command line phobic. I can learn to do this stuff. I will read the two references you mentioned, and plan to gradually learn to use this vi/vim utility. I don't have to do everything graphically through GUI's. That is really a 'bad habit' that Windows inflicted on me 10 years ago when I first encountered Win95.

[Cluttermagnet]

WOW! I was a little late getting in here this afternoon. Looks like I missed all the fun! Glad to see that you got your Zip working, Clutter. That's outstanding! Something to remember, though... in Linux, the OS will NOT mount a drive that does not have media installed. In other words, you won't be able to mount your CD/DVD player, floppy, or Zip unless you have something in them when you attempt the mount.

Yes, I grasp it now. This is a more secure way of doing things. OTOH, the Windows way lets you pop disks in and out at will, so if you are used to that, it does take getting used to. It's going to be a bit of a pain. Consider, for example, the case where you want to copy a medium size file onto a zip disk. You have 3-4 of them scattered around the room. You don't remember what you have on each one, i.e. how full they are. In a Win system, you'd just plug them in one at a time and look. This would not be possible under Linux. It has been my experience that you get one disk per session, then you're looking at a reboot if you want to look at that second disk. Once Ubuntu has found and mounted that disk, then you command it to eject the disk and it does so, I have not been able to get it to see any other disk ( or remount the drive) until I reboot.Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is how it appears to me, after a very brief experience with my new-found zip disk mounting capabilities. If true, this would be a shortcoming of the Linux approach, although not one that would sour me on Linux. I'd be willing to live with that limitation, but I couldn't exactly call that behavior 'convenient'.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Two things, real quickly, Clutter...Vi and Vim are two different command line editors. They are very similar, though. That's why I refer to them together, usually. V-I-M actually stands for "Vi Improved". You can read more about Vim HERE. Their basic commands are so similar that once you learn Vi, Vim comes pretty naturally.Yes, you're correct about the lack of "ease of use" with the Zip in Linux. That also applies to your CD/DVD player and your floppy (if you have one). I've gotten used to it, but I agree with you... it was a lot easier in Windows to just slip those disks in and out at will. And yeah... us old Windows "point and click zombies" were definitely spoiled. That being known, though, Linux (depending on your distro and desktop management application) can be nearly as graphic as Windows was. Unless I'm doing some serious tweaking or repairing in Ubuntu, I rarely ever have to be in the terminal or command line mode.Well, I'm off... I have to decide if I want to reinstall my crashed Slackware installation tonight or some other time. Actually, I have other things I need to be doing. I think Slack can wait a while.Be good...~Eric

[zlim]

slightly OT: I have a dozen flash drives and even with windows ease of looking at them, it can be a pain until I find the one file I want on the particular drive. I now have screen captures printed out of the files on each drive. It's far easier to look at those and see which drive to plug in. As I add files, I hand write the additions until there are so many changes then I do another screenshot and print it out. You can do the same with your zip drives so you grab the one you want the first time.

[Cluttermagnet]

slightly OT: I have a dozen flash drives and even with windows ease of looking at them, it can be a pain until I find the one file I want on the particular drive. I now have screen captures printed out of the files on each drive. It's far easier to look at those and see which drive to plug in. As I add files, I hand write the additions until there are so many changes then I do another screenshot and print it out. You can do the same with your zip drives so you grab the one you want the first time.

That's true. I have a couple of flash drives. I set up a directory tree, so even in Windows I need to navigate all around to find things at times. I'm always forgetting if I left that certain utility in Backup or File Managers/Viewers or just in the Root directory. It's the same on data CD's I save programs on. I need to refresh my memory- seems I remember some cataloging utilities that will take care of this little task. I bet they have the same sort of thing for Linux boxes. A friend had one which would print out CD sleeves with all the contents printed on them. Neat idea! You fold and tape after printing a regular "A" size sheet of paper in your printer.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

By the way, Clutter...Are you saying that once you mount/unmount a disk in the Zip that you have to reboot to mount another one? If so, that's not right. I don't have to do that on my system. Now granted, you do have to mount/unmount - mount/unmount - mount/unmount for each disk you want to access, but you shouldn't have to reboot to do that in between disks.Maybe you should correct that script to use the proper block numbers for the Zip. Also, where are you actually mounting your Zip? Mine mounts in /media/Zip100. What does your fstab entry for the Zip look like?

Clutter@ClutterSystem:~$ gedit /etc/fstab

*This will open the file READ ONLY.Mine looks like this:

/dev/hdd4 /media/Zip100 auto rw,user,noauto,sync 0 0

[Guest LilBambi]

One thing that makes the eject and mount/umount easy is the up arrow ability in the command line in Linux - Linux always had that ability. No F3 to get the last command in a DOS window. Even XP allows up arrow now.Also, for CDs and USB drives. Mounting and is actually easier due to hotplugging. If you wait a few seconds, the USB or CD will show up on the desktop. When you are done with it, you right click and click Eject.It's only the oddball stuff that you do yourself, like the zipdrive where it might get less convenient by needed to mount/umount/eject from commandline.Great job Clutter!

[Cluttermagnet]

Aw, man...This box is sooooo hosed right now. Made the mistake of reinserting a zip disk in the drive after ejecting it under Linux. Disk is in the drive, green button light is constantly on, and the zip drive is interfering with normal bootup of the computer- into anything. Hangs at the 'finding IDE drives' stage, then after a long delay, complains about DISK BOOT FAILURE and demands a valid system disk, then hangs. In other words, the zip disk is 'jammed' in the drive, the light in the eject button is constantly on, and the drive is incapable of releasing it even under no OS. Looks like I will have to power down, open the box, and temporarily disconnect the zip drive to get this computer to boot again. I've *never* seen this behavior in a zip drive before. Frankly, I'm going to be walking on egg shells in the future whenever using a zip drive under Linux. I'd guess zip drives were really designed to play well with Windows, eh?Eric, in answer to your question, I did the fstab inquiry. Tried to save a copy to put in this thread, but forgot and imported a Win-incompatible file extension over to my 98SE box, so cannot send it. I will remark that there was no mention in the list of hdb4. I will redo that when I recover from this mess. Update: Not surprisingly, powering down restores the zip drive itself to sanity, and the eject button functions again...

Edited April 6, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[striker]

[Cluttermagnet]

This is not my day for Linux. At the moment, I have Ubuntu writing endlessly to my little 128M USB flash drive. All I wanted it to do was to unmount the volume. Red light is on in the drive, Removing Device window scanning back and forth endlessly. A system hang, I guess. Restarting Ubuntu produces an indefinite hang with the message "System is restarting, please wait..." OK, I simply yank the USB plug out of the socket. Reboot immediately recommences. I think there may be something a little bit trashed about this particular drive, anyway. I should reformat it. I think it sometimes caused problems in Windows, too. Still, it's just not my day with Ubuntu. I'm 0 for 3 here. Tried to correctly format that fstab report to a .txt extension. Done. Tried zip, floppy, and USB flash to carry it across to the Win box, all no go. I'll try the zip drive again...

[Cluttermagnet]

For Eric:

# /etc/fstab: static file system information.## <file system> <mount point> <type> <options> <dump> <pass>proc /proc proc defaults 0 0/dev/hda5 / ext3 defaults,errors=remount-ro 0 1/dev/hda1 /Win98SE vfat defaults,utf8,umask=007,gid=46 0 1/dev/hda6 /home ext3 defaults 0 2/dev/hda7 none swap sw 0 0/dev/hdc /media/cdrom0 udf,iso9660 user,noauto 0 0

I note that hdb4 isn't mentioned. OTOH, I don't remember whether or not I had it mounted at the time. I think I did. It's all just a blur right now... :w00t:BTW, regarding all this complaining- I went through exactly the same thing about 10 years ago with my Windows mentor. I'd yell about how user- hostile desktop PC's were and how I thought Windows was designed to encumber mankind, not free mankind, etc. He'd laugh, then say "...try this..." and tell me how to get out of whatever mess I was presently in. A few years passed, and I found myself out ahead of him in such areas as caring about security, knowing how to install hard drives and set up OS's, etc. So the guy really did me a big favor, just by being patient and good- natured. Computers used to really get me upset. But the guy helped me, especially in showing me how to work with files. He was soooo right about that. His advice helped me immensely. So now I've come full circle, and am once again the irritable apprentice. Edited April 6, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Bruno]

Update: Not surprisingly, powering down restores the zip drive itself to sanity, and the eject button functions again...

. . . . . lucky enough all got well in the end ;)Clutter . . . can you please tell me exactly what you do ( and what commands you give ) to mount and umount stuff like the Zip-drive and the USB-flash . . . BrunoPS: To transfer files to/from your windows partition . . . . can you see your Win-C drive in /media ??PS2: Clutter, you will blow up your install a couple of times . . . it happens to every new user . . so please don't worry if you do