Clutter Learns Linux

[Cluttermagnet]

My bad. You don't have additional repositories enabled yet. There are more than one ways to do this... the easiest is to open Synaptic, go to Settings (or is it Preferences) -> Repositories, and tick all the boxes... Universe, Main, Multiverse and Restricted.... Source isn't relevant now, won't hurt, though. Then hit "reload"... now the effin' "bum" should appear... whether you install it via Synaptic or Apt-get.Sorry.

OK, good. I'm doing that. Looks like it's going to take about 15-30 minutes on dialup. I'll wait...Looks like it got all but ...ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/source/Sources.gz...OK, I did apt-get bum and it installed. When it loads (takes a while to do it), there is a long list of tasks, with all tasks checked. One of the tasks is "Manages internet access via a modem. I presume that's the function we're talking about? Do I untick all others (for now), leave the modem one ticked, hit "Apply"? Edited March 25, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Cluttermagnet]

..Don't fully understand behavior I'm getting from Boot-Up Manager. It's lying to me, for one thing. I'm just going to wait and not try doing anything more with it until I know what I'm doing...

Edited March 25, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Bruno]

Ubuntu does this wierd little thing with dialup- it starts dialing out even as Ubuntu is still booting, right about when the ID and password dialog is popping up on the screen. But when I then look to see if it is online, it claims it is, but FF will not load web pages. Seems I have to completely reboot Ubuntu, then it shuts up and does not dial out the second time. After the first boot it is 'frozen' in the dialup function, and even actively lies to me about being connected when it is not (or ignores when I tell it to "Activate"). After the second boot it just straightens right up and works as it should. I open the networking dialog, tell it to Activate, and it seizes the line and dials out just as it should. Strange behavior. Is there some "connect when Linux boots" dialog I can reset to stop doing that? If so, where does it live? I've seen this option in a diferent distro recently.

I think the "connect on boot" with dialup is maybe not so well debugged . . . maybe because most developers have broadband.See, connecting during boot is actually made for broadband or local LAN . . . . . not for dial-up.The USA is the only country with a flat rate for local telephone calls, everywhere else in the world you pay each minute you are connected ( also local calls ) . . . . so connecting at boot would be very very expensive and wasting money paying the telcos large amounts of money . . . much much more then the cost of broadband. ( This is why European countries have such high % broadband, it's cheaper )Now, we still have this problem that kppp ( or any other program that dials out ) is started at boot . . . . but we can easily "kill" it just after boot too. ( we make a script )That way if after the boot is complete you can use kppp to connect without it complaining that it is already "up".Would that be a solution you can live with ? Bruno

[Cluttermagnet]

What would be the best way to overwrite my default bookmarks.html in my Firefox preferences with the big bookmarks file I keep in another machine? I now know how to navigate to the preferences folder where my bookmarks live- but I know little so far about the various methods of moving files around.

[Cluttermagnet]

I think the "connect on boot" with dialup is maybe not so well debugged . . . maybe because most developers have broadband.See, connecting during boot is actually made for broadband or local LAN . . . . . not for dial-up.The USA is the only country with a flat rate for local telephone calls, everywhere else in the world you pay each minute you are connected ( also local calls ) . . . . so connecting at boot would be very very expensive and wasting money paying the telcos large amounts of money . . . much much more then the cost of broadband. ( This is why European countries have such high % broadband, it's cheaper )Now, we still have this problem that kppp ( or any other program that dials out ) is started at boot . . . . but we can easily "kill" it just after boot too. ( we make a script )That way if after the boot is complete you can use kppp to connect without it complaining that it is already "up".Would that be a solution you can live with ? Bruno

Thanks, Bruno!Yes, definitely. If you gave me a script to kill the autodialing during boot, that would be fine, provided that when I manually start the dialout, the utility is responsive to me and does indeed dial out. BTW I got confused with the Boot-Up Manager ustility I installed, and would have to ask you guys some questions to interpret what I was (or was not) seeing. So I decided to leave bum alone for now, until I do understand what it is doing.Yes, I agree, the dialup utility may be a little buggy, seems so to me- but what do I know, I'm too new- Heh!One other current question I have about Ubuntu- it won't recognize my zip drive. I think I remember reading about this being a common problem. Can anyone point me towards a fix which will allow Ubuntu to see that drive? Edited March 27, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Bruno]

Hi ClutterFor the ZIP-Drive you need Eric . . . . he has one too and we did get it to work under Ubuntu the very first week he was switching to Linux too ( I will send him a message to pull him over to this thread )The connection thing: there are 2 things I want you to do: 1). Do a fresh boot and open a terminal and give the command

$ sudo poff

and see if that clears the way to a "clean" way to connect.2). Do another reboot where supposedly the connection is "UP" and open a terminal and give the command

$ top

This will then display the process table . . . You can stop it from refreshing and get your prompt back by pressing the Q-key of your keyboard. Once stopped you will be able to copy the results and paste it in your post here on the forum.( See I need to know what process responsible for the dialup is running once we know that we will be able to kill it ) Bruno

[Urmas]

The cavalry has arrived, I'm pleased to see!

What would be the best way to overwrite my default bookmarks.html in my Firefox preferences with the big bookmarks file I keep in another machine?

Use Firefox's tools: on your Windoze machine, use "export" (bookmarks) to create a copy of "bookmarks.html" on, say, your Windoze desktop. Do you have a USB dongle? Good... Copy it in there. In Ubuntu, copy the file on the desktop, and use FF's "import" (bookmarks) function. In FF 2, the "bookmark functions" are located in Bookmarks -> Edit (Bookmarks)... might be different in 1.5 (under "File"?).

For the ZIP-Drive you need Eric . . . . he has one too and we did get it to work under Ubuntu the very first week he was switching to Linux too

HERE'S the (very informative albeit somewhat longish ) thread... quote from post #1:

- Created auto-node for ATAPI Zip100 drive using this method: Using Terminal, created directory /media/Zip100. With Root Gedit, created this script*:

#!/bin/bashmknod /dev/hdb4 b 3 64#End script

Saved script as S95zipnode in /etc/rcS.d. Using Terminal again, made the script executable using

$ sudo chmod 755 /etc/rcS.d/S95zipnode

*Script and method provided by Bruno on THIS thread.

PLEASE NOTE! Eric's setup is different from yours... he's got 2 hard drives for starters... so this one needs to be "thought through" (the hdb4 part that is)... another job for the cavalry! Edited March 27, 2007 by Urmas

[ross549]

Yes, definitely. If you gave me a script to kill the autodialing during boot, that would be fine, provided that when I manually start the dialout, the utility is responsive to me and does indeed dial out.

Let me jump in here once again......If you are not going to be connected to the net 24/7, I would strongly recommend using kppp (you will likely need to install it) to dial out. It will not dialout during bootup or anything like that. It also resembles the windows dialer in certain ways, os it should not be difficult to configure if you are comfortable using the windows dialer.It has other nice tools to help you diagnose any problems. There is one caveat though- in the networking applet, when you configure your dialp commection, make sure to uncheck the box labeled use this connection on the general tab, or else kppp will never authenticate after dialing.My $0.02 worth, but it may be worth significantly less. ;)Adam

[Urmas]

Certainly worth a try... I dug up your earlier post about it... a relevant piece of info in there:

As far as the dialup modem status.... Once you get Ubuntu installed, I would recommend installing KPPP, it is a much more powerful and shows you a lot more than just "active" like the Network Manager does. One note, though- you will have to disable the ppp0 connection inside the network manager to make kppp work- it took me a couple weeks to figure that one out!

Edited March 27, 2007 by Urmas

[Cluttermagnet]

Use Firefox's tools: on your Windoze machine, use "export" (bookmarks) to create a copy of "bookmarks.html" on, say, your Windoze desktop. Do you have a USB dongle? Good... Copy it in there. In Ubuntu, copy the file on the desktop, and use FF's "import" (bookmarks) function. In FF 2, the "bookmark functions" are located in Bookmarks -> Edit (Bookmarks)... might be different in 1.5 (under "File"?).

I wanted to try something relatively easy, first. I did get my big bookmarks file imported, but I had to do it manually. I brought the bookmarks file across in my USB flash drive. The import function in FF just wasn't handling things, although it did create a big bookmarks.bak during my 3 unsuccessful attempts. Seems like it just summed them all together from 3 tries- strange. Anyway, I just took matters into my own hands, and did it (ugh!) graphically. First I renamed the present bookmarks file. Then I dragged the new file from the Linux desktop. LOL! How inelegant.I worked from Places/Computer, which opens the "Computer- File Browser" utility. Boy, it's sure a lot easier in 98SE. Sorry, but I've had 10 years to learn what utilities work well in that environment, and I can really whip files around in a big hurry, without even thinking much about it. There are so many good file utilities for Windows! My personal favorite is an oldie but goodie, Drag & File Desktop V. 3.51, back from Win95 days. I also use Explorer2 sometimes. Whatever utility "...File Browser" is, it is a blunt instrument in my hands so far, but it does get the job done. I'd be interested in hearing about any other good Linux files utilities I might try. Any suggestions? Ahhh well, I'll learn fast... Edited March 27, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Urmas]

Ahhh well, I'll learn fast...

[Urmas]

I'd be interested in hearing about any other good Linux files utilities I might try. Any suggestions?

Plenty O'Tooles available. Thunar is "Nautilus lite"... but since you like to <sweesh> the files <swoosh> around, methinks you'd love the Gnome Commander (the package is called "gnome-commander"). Both are in the repos, so "Synaptic" or "apt-get install" away! Edited March 27, 2007 by Urmas

[Cluttermagnet]

Thanks, guys-I'm definitely going to try kppp at some point (soon). I did encounter kppp in another distro recently, and it seemed fairly easy to go through and set up- but some of the choices were slightly confusing, and I never did get that distro to dial out and connect. This may have been during a live CD session of Kubuntu, but I'm not sure. Or it may have been under PCLinusOS.Since my dialup problems have so far only been annoying, and sometimes confusing, what I'm going to do for the next few days is just to keep using it all 'as is' until I get a clearer idea of just what, exactly, is happening. My results have been at times confusing, even inconsistent. For example, last night I went into the networking properties to just look at something. I found that had apparently caused the present dial line connection to drop. I didn't intend for that to happen, and I didn't ask for that to happen, but it did. Dialup is just way different than in 98SE, but in 98 things can be just as odd in their own way. You eventually get used to them. It's a matter of learning how things work, and forming a set of expectations. I'm still acquiring experience, being so new to this, so my expectations are not yet 'set'.I'm still interested in trying a script if it can throttle my present networking utility during bootup, but still allow me to access it manually after boot. I definitely do not like to connect to the net while booting up, because of being on dialup. If I were on broadband, that would make sense, however.

[Cluttermagnet]

Plenty O'Tooles available. Thunar is "Nautilus lite"... but since you like to <sweesh> the files <swoosh> around, methinks you'd love the Gnome Commander (the package is called "gnome-commander"). Both are in the repos, so "Synaptic" or "apt-get install" away!

Great! I'll give at least one of these a try. I figure my experience mostly resembles running in a 'Commander-like' environment. Yeah, I've been corrupted by Windows use for so many years, and do far too much dragging of files anyway. For more batch- oriented stuff, I'll want to go in the direction of the command line, eventually. Drag and file has a wonderful feature, which amounts to 'highlighting' multiple files for copy or move, but it does it with prominent red arrows next to each file name, sort of as if you were checking boxes, I guess. Sort of a GUI, mass file move method.Edit: OK, I used Synaptic to install gnome-commander. Will work with it a while. It looks like what I had in mind. Edited March 27, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Cluttermagnet]

Here's the (very informative albeit somewhat longish ) thread... quote from post #1:PLEASE NOTE! Eric's setup is different from yours... he's got 2 hard drives for starters... so this one needs to be "thought through" (the hdb4 part that is)... another job for the cavalry!

OK, Urmas-I've started reading and absorbing these interesting threads. I think I'll be able to figure out how to do all this. I will just take my time and ask a few questions. BTW I already looked up in Device Manager and my Zip also has major/minor numbers of 3 and 64. Soon I'll be writing my own script and making it active. I agree with Eric, zip drives are just so easy to use. I prefer these 'oversized floppy disks' when file sizes are under 100G. No harder to use than a USB flash drive. I'll save the CD's and DVD's for really big files. It's a pain to set up to burn them. Zips, when they will do the job, are almost effortless. Too bad their day has come and gone. I still put a 100G zip on every machine I set up.BTW I just now tried booting with a zip disk in the drive. In that status, I was able to mount the drive and view the sample .txt file I had on it. So far, so good. But the eject button on the drive is now overridden, so I can't eject the disk. Further, if I right click on the drive icon and select "Eject", I get an error window, but it won't eject. In fact, it looks like I'd have to shut down Linux and then boot into windows, just to eject the disk. This leads to another question. I was given a choice when I opened the text file. Display or Run? I've never thought of a text file as executable. Apparently in Linux, it is?? Edited March 27, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Urmas]

I'm still interested in trying a script if it can throttle my present networking utility during bootup, but still allow me to access it manually after boot.

Sayeth Bruno:

The connection thing: there are 2 things I want you to do: 1). Do a fresh boot and open a terminal and give the command

sudo poff

and see if that clears the way to a "clean" way to connect.2). Do another reboot where supposedly the connection is "UP" and open a terminal and give the command

top

This will then display the process table . . . You can stop it from refreshing and get your prompt back by pressing the Q-key of your keyboard. Once stopped you will be able to copy the results and paste it in your post here on the forum.( See I need to know what process responsible for the dialup is running once we know that we will be able to kill it )

[Guest LilBambi]

Anyway, I just took matters into my own hands, and did it (ugh!) graphically. First I renamed the present bookmarks file. Then I dragged the new file from the Linux desktop. LOL! How inelegant.

Perfect! That's how I do it with mine because I have a lot of bookmarks and I also do not like it put as an imported folder in the existing Bookmarks. I want them to 'be' the bookmarks, with the Bookmarks Toolbar I created from the start. And copying them to the profile after backing up the original one is, IMHO, the best way to handle that.

I worked from Places/Computer, which opens the "Computer- File Browser" utility. Boy, it's sure a lot easier in 98SE. Sorry, but I've had 10 years to learn what utilities work well in that environment, and I can really whip files around in a big hurry, without even thinking much about it. There are so many good file utilities for Windows! My personal favorite is an oldie but goodie, Drag & File Desktop V. 3.51, back from Win95 days. I also use Explorer2 sometimes. Whatever utility "...File Browser" is, it is a blunt instrument in my hands so far, but it does get the job done. I'd be interested in hearing about any other good Linux files utilities I might try. Any suggestions? Ahhh well, I'll learn fast...

There are several utilities for that. Once you have KDE in there, here is one for KDE that apparently works better than then Gnome one from what I have heard.

[Bruno]

Okay . .. just a few remarks on a few snippets:

There are so many good file utilities for Windows! My personal favorite is an oldie but goodie, Drag & File Desktop V. 3.51, back from Win95 days. I also use Explorer2 sometimes. Whatever utility "...File Browser" is, it is a blunt instrument in my hands so far, but it does get the job done. I'd be interested in hearing about any other good Linux files utilities I might try. Any suggestions? Ahhh well, I'll learn fast...

This makes me think you need the KDE desktop with the Konqueror filemanager . . . . it comes closest to the "Explorer-thing" and can do even more. ( like playing soundfiles, FTP client, ripping and encoding etc. etc. )Also, KDE has kppp by default . . . see next quote

I'm definitely going to try kppp at some point (soon). I did encounter kppp in another distro recently, and it seemed fairly easy to go through and set up- but some of the choices were slightly confusing, and I never did get that distro to dial out and connect. This may have been during a live CD session of Kubuntu, but I'm not sure. Or it may have been under PCLinusOS.

Clearly you need some help with kppp . . . but I think that in the end you will like it better.

I'm still interested in trying a script if it can throttle my present networking utility during bootup, but still allow me to access it manually after boot. I definitely do not like to connect to the net while booting up, because of being on dialup. If I were on broadband, that would make sense, however.

We need the output of the "top" command . . . . . that will show us what processes are running and hopefuly we can see what was used for dialing out.

BTW I just now tried booting with a zip disk in the drive. In that status, I was able to mount the drive and view the sample .txt file I had on it. So far, so good.

Good . . . in that case you don not need the instructions I gave to Eric . . . So forget about that part !

But the eject button on the drive is now overridden, so I can't eject the disk.

This probably is because the zip is still "mounted" . . . my guess is that when you first un-mount ( "umount" is the command ) the zip-drive it will listen to your command to eject after.

Run? I've never thought of a text file as executable. Apparently in Linux, it is??

You can make any text file executable by simply changing the permissions . . . easy as pie. :DSo, conclusion: Install Ubuntu but add KDE immediately after the install and make it your default desktop-manager ;) Bruno

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Clutter,Everyone seems to have pointed you in the right directions regarding the Zip drive issue. Did you get it working? Let me know. I'll walk you through it if you need me too.I LOVE my ZIP! :)Here's the original thread (also my very first post at SFNL-ATL) where Bruno and I (mostly Bruno ) worked out the solution:http://forums.scotsnewsletter.com/index.php?showtopic=15880Keep me posted on your progress...~Eric

[V.T. Eric Layton]

One additional thing, Clutter...If you boot to Ubuntu with a disk in your Zip, it will auto mount and you'll be able to use the drive throughout that session because the OS will create a node for the drive initially. However, if you shut down and restart without the disk in, the node will be lost. I found that to be annoying, so I used the script to make sure that a node is created every time I boot into Ubuntu, without having to have a disk in place.Also, every so often, the Zip eject button will not eject the disk. This is because the OS still has control of the drive. The hardware eject button is disabled temporarily. You can just open Nautilus and RIGHT click on the Zip drive icon and choose "Unmount Device" or you can quickly unmount in terminal also:

Clutter@Ubuntu:~$ sudo umount /dev/hdb4

~Eric

[Cluttermagnet]

One additional thing, Clutter...If you boot to Ubuntu with a disk in your Zip, it will auto mount and you'll be able to use the drive throughout that session because the OS will create a node for the drive initially. However, if you shut down and restart without the disk in, the node will be lost. I found that to be annoying, so I used the script to make sure that a node is created every time I boot into Ubuntu, without having to have a disk in place.Also, every so often, the Zip eject button will not eject the disk. This is because the OS still has control of the drive. The hardware eject button is disabled temporarily. You can just open Nautilus and RIGHT click on the Zip drive icon and choose "Unmount Device" or you can quickly unmount in terminal also:

Clutter@Ubuntu:~$ sudo umount /dev/hdb4

~Eric

Hi, Eric-I'm not sure if I have Nautilus or not. I don't see it in any drop down menus- unless it is called something else? Ubuntu seems to like to use generic names for things. For example, Places/Computer opens a generic utility called "...File Browser". Aw, come on! I'm used to utilities having made up names. I might have Nautilus and it's right under my nose and I just can't find it. Or perhaps I need to install it? BTW what sort of utility is Nautilus?

You can just open Nautilus and RIGHT click on the Zip drive icon and choose "Unmount Device" or you can quickly unmount in terminal also:

I tried that with "File Browser" and it didn't eject, didn't unmount- nothing. I did indeed have to reboot into Windows to eject the zip disk. :hysterical:Ahhh, in Terminal. Well, I haven't tried that method yet. I will.When I get to it, I'll go learn whether my zip drive is hdb4 or some other device in my system, then try this. I may have a couple more questions about writing the script before I actually do it. Edited March 28, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Urmas]

New math vocabulary (part 1 of 3275):Nautilus: the default file manager in Gnome (and, thus, in Ubuntu)Gedit: the default GUI text editor etc. etc.

Edited March 28, 2007 by Urmas

[Cluttermagnet]

Perfect! That's how I do it with mine because I have a lot of bookmarks and I also do not like it put as an imported folder in the existing Bookmarks. I want them to 'be' the bookmarks, with the Bookmarks Toolbar I created from the start. And copying them to the profile after backing up the original one is, IMHO, the best way to handle that. ;)There are several utilities for that. Once you have KDE in there, here is one for KDE that apparently works better than then Gnome one from what I have heard.

Thanks, Bambi-I didn't even know that Import creates folders. I never Import. No, I don't want the folder either. As you say, I want the bookmarks to be the new bookmarks, just as you do. I prefer to manually edit files in some way.

[Cluttermagnet]

New math vocabulary (part 1 of 3275):Nautilus: the default file manager in Gnome (and, thus, in Ubuntu)Gedit: the default text editor etc. etc.

Hmmm-Gedit = Gnome + edit,,,Nautilus =? Not all utilities user friendly?? Sorry, just kidding. It's late and I'm getting punchy.I'm embarassed to learn that if I just click Help/About, there is "Nautilus 2.14.1" punching me right in the nose. Man, I am soooo glad you guys are not RTFM type Linux'ers! :hysterical:The person who wrote "...there's no such thing as a dumb question" never met me. :hysterical:P.S. You guys are way more fun than a manual!I'm starting to love Gnome Partition Manager! As good or better than any other I have worked with. It's great to boot up a live CD session of Ubuntu and then use it to do partition work on a Windows box. Somebody must have done a lot of work on that utility, because it has a very clear, intuitive, and easy to use GUI. It gets the job done right, quickly! Edited March 28, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Urmas]

Man, I am soooo glad you guys are not RTFM types Linux'ers!

Everybody's been there, done that, got the(Me, I hadn't even seen a Linux'd computer before the end of 2005, so... )

[Cluttermagnet]

Good . . . in that case you don not need the instructions I gave to Eric . . . So forget about that part !

Hmmm-I think I actually do need the script, Bruno. I want the empty drive to mount at bootup, like Eric. My drive only mounted because I inserted a disk and then rebooted. And then it kept my zip and wouldn't eject or unmount. So yes, I definitely do want to learn how to make and insert that script ('make active or executable' or whatever). I need to study those 2 threads a little more, then I can try it or ask some more questions. I did not completely understand the procedure at first reading. There was something about creating the script within some utility, then moving the file somewhere else, then making it active.

Everyone seems to have pointed you in the right directions regarding the Zip drive issue. Did you get it working? Let me know. I'll walk you through it if you need me too.I LOVE my ZIP! smile.gif

Yes, I know roughly what to do, but still need to read some more for full understanding. I may have more questions before I actually make the script.

[Cluttermagnet]

Okay . .. just a few remarks on a few snippets: This makes me think you need the KDE desktop with the Konqueror filemanager . . . . it comes closest to the "Explorer-thing" and can do even more. ( like playing soundfiles, FTP client, ripping and encoding etc. etc. )Also, KDE has kppp by default . . . see next quote Clearly you need some help with kppp . . . but I think that in the end you will like it better. We need the output of the "top" command . . . . . that will show us what processes are running and hopefuly we can see what was used for dialing out.

I did a "top" command, just for practice, and saved it. I'm still waiting for Ubuntu to dial out again during bootup- but so far that mostly does not happen. If it happens again, I will immediately do a top command and copy for you.Yes, I am open to trying the KDE environment (will have to learn how), And yes, I'm definitely going to get kppp installed and try that. BTW do I have to uninstall the other dialer after I install kpp?

[ross549]

Yes, I am open to trying the KDE environment (will have to learn how), And yes, I'm definitely going to get kppp installed and try that. BTW do I have to uninstall the other dialer after I install kpp?

Nope. They can live side by side in peace. :)Adam

[Urmas]

I'm still waiting for Ubuntu to dial out again during bootup- but so far that mostly does not happen. If it happens again, I will immediately do a top command and copy for you.And yes, I'm definitely going to get kppp installed and try that. BTW do I have to uninstall the other dialer after I install kpp?

Ah ha! Here's a chance to think a bit... you must be doing something "right"... have you "hung up" the connection before shutting down the computer (Adam brought this up in an earlier post)?

Yes, I am open to trying the KDE environment (will have to learn how)

KDE (and XFCE etc.) are desktop environments - just like Gnome - that come with their "designated" browsers, file managers etc. And because Ubuntu (Gnome) / Kubuntu (KDE) / Xubuntu (XFCE) are distributed as CD (and not DVD) iso:s, there is no room for the alternative desktop environments in the disk(s). So, if you are planning to upgrade to 7.04 (Feisty), it might be wise to plan ahead. Does your machine have a DVD drive? Better yet, a burner? Or does your friend (with the broadband connection) have a DVD burner? Yes? In that case... there is a "community job" all-inclusive 1.9GB monster called Ubuntu Ultimate. It's based on Edgy (6.10) now, but will hopefully be "feistied up" soon after Feisty Fawn comes out (due April 19). Download, burn, install... and you'll have all the (open source) goodies installed... KDE included. And - while still on broadband - update the system and let Automatix fetch the proprietary bits. This way you have pretty much everything you'll ever need installed, and you can set the Update Manager to inform you about critical security updates only.

And yes, I'm definitely going to get kppp installed and try that. BTW do I have to uninstall the other dialer after I install kpp?

Nope... but, according to Adam:

One note, though- you will have to disable the ppp0 connection inside the network manager to make kppp work- it took me a couple weeks to figure that one out!

[Bruno]

Yes, I am open to trying the KDE environment (will have to learn how), And yes, I'm definitely going to get kppp installed and try that. BTW do I have to uninstall the other dialer after I install kpp?

KDE (and XFCE etc.) are desktop environments - just like Gnome - that come with their "designated" browsers, file managers etc. And because Ubuntu (Gnome) / Kubuntu (KDE) / Xubuntu (XFCE) are distributed as CD (and not DVD) iso:s, there is no room for the alternative desktop environments in the disk(s).

Yep, sorry by giving the advise of trying KDE as desktop environment I forgot that downloading and installing KDE as additional desktop would mean many 100's MB on dial-up . . . . sorry about that Clutter. :'( Bruno