raymac46 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Yep. I think this one line sums it up as well as I've seen. I keep asking myself "why did I wait so long to get my feet wet in Linux?" Well, the important thing is that I eventually did, and there's no turning back for me now. I read somewhere that one of the problems Linux has in getting more of a foothold is the lack of "Linux Advocates". There are lots of Linux geeks and gurus who are willing to help the fledgling Linux user - but these people often are seen as intimidating by a Linux beginner.What's needed is to get more "advocates" who can explain the benefits of Linux to a new user, and preferably install a system or provide some basic IT services - "how do I setup email, or encode MP3s?" This sort of question might elicit an "RTFM" from a guru.If the advocates hang out with geeks long enough they can learn what they need to help a basic user.So maybe you and I can qualify as advocates, hey Clutter?Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) This sort of question might elicit an "RTFM" from a guru.If the advocates hang out with geeks long enough they can learn what they need to help a basic user.So maybe you and I can qualify as advocates, hey Clutter?RayIndeed. I agree that I presently qualify as a 'Linux advocate'. And BTW I believe you have been doing it longer and are out ahead of me a bit. I'm perhaps a slightly slow learner, but I'm definitely making progress.Something new I'm playing with lately, recommended by fellow Scot's forums member, is Ubuntu Ultimate 1.6 dvd. It's a little under 2G in size, and is, in fact, the first DVD I have ever burned. I had a little trouble getting k3b to do it, but OTOH no blank was produced. So I installed gnomebaker and that little utility burned the iso dvd OK (at 2x speed- heh!) Took about 12-13 minutes to do it.The distro itself is now working in Live dvd session on the Cluttermaster 2007. It has various hicups at startup (mostly seem to be video related), but with a little care, I coaxed it to boot up in usable form for me. At one point, it failed to set up ethernet right, but I changed the ethernet card to a type I use more generally here, and it then found the net just fine. I'll play with it for a while. There have been some good reviews of this very 'loaded' dvd Ubuntu distro. It looks promising... Edited January 11, 2008 by Cluttermagnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 A friend of mine uses it and has nothing but good things to say about it. I guess it works for him... but I find it just has too much stuff installed. I guess I prefer a more streamlined desktop.Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Ubuntu Ultimate looks interesting, but unfortunately many of my "junkers" don't have DVD-ROMs. I'm restricted to 700 MB for most machines.I'm sure you could install all that stuff anyway. It's no big deal to get restricted codecs working with Gutsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urmas Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I'm sure you could install all that stuff anyway.True. But if there is a DVD drive available, "Ultimate" saves time and trouble. I played with it "live" and I liked what I saw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) Sounds like your PIII 600 would be a great candidate for Vector Linux 5.9 actually. Slackware based so you'd get lots of support and encouragement from all the Slackers here. Also runs Xfce which is a bit quicker than Gnome on the old stuff. It's really a beautiful desktop the way VL has it set up.I have Ubuntu Gutsy on a PIII 866 with 512 MB and it's pretty good. But on this K6-2 450 with 320 MB it's VL all the way.I have a copy of the VL 5.9 .iso somewhere. Maybe I haven't burned the CD yet. Anyway, I grabbed a copy of VL 5.8 I had handy and booted up. Looks like it is not a 'live CD' distro, and wants only to install. I guess I'm not comfortable with doing that yet on such minimal hardware- mainly because I just don't know what I'm doing. So this morning I'm running a live session of dsl 4.2.1.I still need to learn how big a combination of screen size and color depth I can run with the puny video driver on this mobo. Right now it's 640x480 and 16 bit color. It feels real cramped in here. Heh!The mouse was also an adventure. Whereas I was able to run my USB mouse through its ps2 adaptor I normally use (with the K6 box), that refused to work on the P3 box. I had to go with a USB mouse, then it works.Firefox runs pretty snappy on this P3 box, however. :thumbsup:Hey, I'll try an install of VL eventually. I just want to get a better feel for what this hardware will do, first. Edited January 12, 2008 by Cluttermagnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I have a copy of the VL 5.9 .iso somewhere. Maybe I haven't burned the CD yet. Anyway, I grabbed a copy of VL 5.8 I had handy and booted up. Looks like it is not a 'live CD' distro, and wants only to install.That is correct. However there are copies of VL "Live" out there if you want to try one. The Standard ISO is a basic Slackware inspired install only. Ponderous, text based, but not bad. It's a little more demanding of your geek skills if you need to partition but you can go and do that before with DSL or Puppy Linux. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urmas Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 (edited) It's a little more demanding of your geek skills if you need to partition...Exactly. But I recommend you go through it... 30 seconds' worth of scratching your head the first time you do it, and that's it. You'll encounter the same tool in Slackware, Zenwalk etc. anyway. Edited January 12, 2008 by Urmas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 That is correct. However there are copies of VL "Live" out there if you want to try one. The Standard ISO is a basic Slackware inspired install only. Ponderous, text based, but not bad. It's a little more demanding of your geek skills if you need to partition but you can go and do that before with DSL or Puppy Linux.I have the 'little' 10G drive on that box partitioned FAT32 at the beginning for a Windows OS, then an ext3 root partition, then an extended partition with a small swap (512M, 2x RAM) and an ext3 /home. All are about 3G in size. This seems to be a good, standard way of doing things for dual boot setups. Later, when I'm not feeling the need for the first partition to house either Windows or a FAT32 Share partition, I can start setting these up where that first partition is also ext3, then dual boot 2 different Linux flavors.I think I'll stick with GUI-fied distros for now. I don't feel that my Linux skills are quite up to par for text only, just yet. I have been so scattered in my efforts in my first year running Linux. More of a quick tour than a disciplined learning about the 'engine under the hood'. This very long "Clutter" thread documents a lot of that- 'kid in a candy factory', etc. But I'll get there. I do feel comfortable with the command line and I'm careful enough to have not crashed and burned too often. Heh!I bet that VL will make that P3 box fly, But you know what? When I think about it, Gutsy is doing a creditable job on that box as is, albeit just a little slow to refresh the screen. If it mattered, adding a PCI video card would probably help- but it's really not that important to me. Heck, right now, that P3 box is good enough I could use it as a 'loaner' if I was wanting to get someone some 'seat time' in front of a Linux distro, and/or needed a substitute box so I could take someone's Windows computer to work on.Can someone remind me what VL's minimum requirements are, once again? I also have a couple of other minimal hardware boxes which might be candidates. Oh, also, would it be possible to get VL to dual boot with Gutsy? That would make it a lot less painful to dedicate this particular P3 box to VL eight now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 Can someone remind me what VL's minimum requirements are, once again? I also have a couple of other minimal hardware boxes which might be candidates. Oh, also, would it be possible to get VL to dual boot with Gutsy? That would make it a lot less painful to dedicate this particular P3 box to VL eight now.There are 2 versions of VectorLinux . . the STD ( standard ) and the SOHO.Since the SOHO uses KDE it needs more CPU and RAMThe STD edition is suited for older hardware, see: ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/os/Linux/distr/vec...on_table_2.html ( it does not have the latest versions but you get the idea looking at the list ) Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 A question about printers and Ubuntu- probably an easy one. I needed to print something from the Cluttermaster 2007. I know for sure this 3.2GHz P4 machine had my HP932C printer installed. But today, when I looked at the print to options that came up, there was no printer listed, just the pdf ones. So I reinstalled the 932C. That went uneventfully. I'm wondering- I know there have been some updates to cups-sys or whatever those printer oriented files are called. Is it possible that updating them uninstalled my printer? Or is it more likely that a shell update did this? It's not a big deal, I'm just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 Hi Clutter . . . . Updates should not remove the info of the printer you configured before . . . . dunno what happened in your case . . . Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 (edited) Hi Clutter . . . . Updates should not remove the info of the printer you configured before . . . . dunno what happened in your case . . . BrunoHmmm-Well, I can think of one other explanation. I'll have to review my old notes. Maybe I had Dapper on that box. I have Feisty now. I must not have printed since making that change (if that's what happened). I bet that is the answer. But since you guys taught me to always make separate /home and swap partitions, my data was still there. The particular task I printed was a new business card in glabels. All my old designs had been safely saved. I guess I probably forgot that I had upgraded OS's. (?) I have too many computers. Edited January 13, 2008 by Cluttermagnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 I guess I probably forgot that I had upgraded OS's. (?)That does look like a logical explanation . . . . Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I think I'll stick with GUI-fied distros for now. I don't feel that my Linux skills are quite up to par for text only, just yet.Oh I' m sure you can handle a text based installer. In fact once you try the alternate CD you won't want to use the "Live" install at all. In fact the text based works better. I had problems installing a different version of Xubuntu over an existing one with the Live installer (the format kept failing.) However the alternate CD handled it fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Oh I' m sure you can handle a text based installer. In fact once you try the alternate CD you won't want to use the "Live" install at all. In fact the text based works better. I had problems installing a different version of Xubuntu over an existing one with the Live installer (the format kept failing.) However the alternate CD handled it fine.That's my experience too ray, the alternate version has more possibilities too. (from what it's worth : I don't even use any gnome based distros, but I did try some of them and actually tested the installers in real world situations.) Nothing wrong with text based installers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 Note to self:Ray was talking about text-based installers. Clutter was picturing a very minimalist, text-based distro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 You almost got me there Clutter ... However, any distro can be made text made, that means without a gui, just text mode based. This way you can set up a minimalistic OS and build the rest on top of it. Some netinstalls are based on this principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Note to self:Ray was talking about text-based installers. Clutter was picturing a very minimalist, text-based distro. What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men...Strother Martin in "Cool Hand Luke." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach, so you get what we had here last week which is the way he wants it. Well, he gets it. And I don't like it any more than you men...Strother Martin in "Cool Hand Luke." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 Note to self:Ray was talking about text-based installers. Clutter was picturing a very minimalist, text-based distro. What's wrong with that? You still have at least 6 terminal "windows" you can use to get your work done. In all reality though, learning the "keyboard side" of the distro makes it even easier to manage computers remotely (read: over the internet). I've done this with my sister's computer- it worked well!Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 22, 2008 Author Share Posted January 22, 2008 (edited) OK, straight through, 'bridge mode'. I'll look into that. Thanks, guys. If that works, then I just turn off wireless WEP in the Verizon Router, then enable WPA in the second router...Yesterday I revisited my sister's site and successfully did battle with the Verizon DSL router/ modem combo. With the help of her landlord, the owner of the network, we managed to get it changed over from an already working wireless WEP to a working WPA setup. He had been unsuccessful in a couple of previous 'engagements' with this new DSL setup on his own. Frankly, I needed his help as much as he needed mine, but between the two of us, we pulled it off just fine, I think. I forgot once again, but I'll eventually take note of the make and model of that DSL modem, striker. But it now seems 'OK' and I'm no longer contemplating running its router 'straight through' into a second router.BTW my sister's computer already worked OK on the new DSL via wired LAN connection. The task yesterday was entirely about getting the landlord's wireless laptop up and running on the network. It does favorably impact my sisters security online, however. I've still got so much to learn about networking, being a refugee from 11 years on dialup- ugh! Edited January 22, 2008 by Cluttermagnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yesterday I revisited my sister's site and successfully did battle with the Verizon DSL router/ modem combo. With the help of her landlord, the owner of the network, we managed to get it changed over from an already working wireless WEP to a working WPA setup. He had been unsuccessful in a couple of previous 'engagements' with this new DSL setup on his own. Frankly, I needed his help as much as he needed mine, but between the two of us, we pulled it off just fine, I think. BTW I forgot once again, but I'll eventually take note of the make and model of that DSL modem, striker. But it now seems 'OK' and I'm no longer contemplating running its router 'straight through' into a second router.Glad it worked out for you, Clutter. I found it hard to imagine that any router/gateway made nowadays would not support some sort of WPA encryption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yesterday I revisited my sister's site and successfully did battle with the Verizon DSL router/ modem combo. With the help of her landlord, the owner of the network, we managed to get it changed over from an already working wireless WEP to a working WPA setup. He had been unsuccessful in a couple of previous 'engagements' with this new DSL setup on his own. Frankly, I needed his help as much as he needed mine, but between the two of us, we pulled it off just fine, I think. I forgot once again, but I'll eventually take note of the make and model of that DSL modem, striker. But it now seems 'OK' and I'm no longer contemplating running its router 'straight through' into a second router.BTW my sister's computer already worked OK on the new DSL via wired LAN connection. The task yesterday was entirely about getting the landlord's wireless laptop up and running on the network. It does favorably impact my sisters security online, however. I've still got so much to learn about networking, being a refugee from 11 years on dialup- ugh! good work Clutter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urmas Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Ye Olde Clutterthread is the perfect place for this one... thanks to Lawwolf, whose big fingers and small laptop mouse pad drove me to the depths of Googleverse. PROBLEM: User accidentally moves (deletes, even) panel(s). In Gnome, there is no OBVIOUS way to lock down the panels.SOLUTION: Press Alt-F2 and run gconf-editor. Go to apps--> panel-->global and"tick" the key "locked down".CAVEAT: This does not ONLY lock down the panel(s) itself, but all the launchers and applets as well, leaving only the "basic" configuration options (such as setting the time in clock) available. Also, nothing can be added to/removed from panels without "reopening" them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 A neat trick, actually. Thanks for adding to this thread. FWIW I find that I stop making changes to my panels soon after installing and setting up an Ubuntu based OS. So I could live with 'locked down'.There is one laptop that I work on for a friend. I'm not at all used to laptops. I hate those mouse pads! I told that friend to buy a USB mouse if they want me to continue to work on that unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 OK, guys-You can break out the champagne and noisemakers. Clutter installed his first Linux distro today. Ubuntu 6.06. Everything came together very smooth because of the excellent help I received here, and also the quality of the online tutorials I used. It pays to do your homework. I used Gparted and sucessfully made the root, home, and swap partitions needed. This was a very easy partition tool to use. Then I started the actual install. It probably took less than 5 minutes to work through the setup dialog, then the install took about 7-8 minutes on my P4 1.6GHz box to finish putting everything on the drive and finding hardware and setting everything up. The Grub window is pretty self- explanatory, and Grub did find my Win98SE partition just fine. Now I'll spend a lot of time with the new OS and try things and start asking more questions (and also read the- ahem- manual). A fun new adventure awaits me. Just remind me of that next time I start complaining about how hard it is to do things. I may know what I'm doing in a year or so.Well, there it is- Clutter has been running Linux for 1 year now. The months just flew by. It's been a very fun, positive experience. It's definitely the right OS for me now. Thanks to everyone who helped me make the transition. I have much more to learn- it will be quite satisfying to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 You deserve congrats Clutter ! You did it, you kept learning new things and you're persistent. Very good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Wow! One whole year!!? Hard to believe it's been that long already!You have soaked it up like a sponge Clutter! It's great to see a technically oriented person get in touch with his/her Linux self :thumbsup:There is no greater joy than learning a new OS, if you have the time and inclination. :DThe same great learning joys as when we all started with computers the first time! Bet you thought you would never see that again, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urmas Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Time flies when you have fun, huh? "Clutter Learns Linux" has been great fun to follow... congratulations, Clutter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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