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Time to get back to Linux


rolanaj
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Plus the business class laptops are built much better than the consumer ones.

I've been looking at Thinkpads. Far as I know they're business class (T430). I realize there's a price difference, but I feel comfortable with Newegg as a vendor. I'll have to think about it. Edited by ebrke
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securitybreach

Yeah, the Thinkpad T430 is but some of the thinkpads are not. Basically, if you can get a docking station for it, then it is business class.

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I actually got my Thinkpad T430 from a bricks and mortar store (Canada Computers) in Ottawa. Price was OK - stuff is always more expensive in Canada.

I was able to see before buying and verify that the Thinkpad was in pristine condition. I don't think it ever left the office.

Mine has an SSD and 8 GB of RAM. I got the simple Intel video (no hybrid graphics.)

It came with Windows 10 but I never ran it that way at all - just reformatted and installed Debian.

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I've just read several things about people having trouble getting into uefi setup on lenovo laptops running win10. I know absolutely nothing about win10, but one user was told that this was normal with win10 because "shutdown is just a sort of hibernation and is not safe to change uefi settings in that mode" and something about using shift restart to get into uefi settings. Anyone have any idea what the heck that's about?

 

I'm just realizing this should probably be in a new topic; if it turns complicated I'll repost it.

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Shift Restart/Shutdown is a way of avoiding Fast Startup which is a hybrid hibernation mode. I haven't heard of it affecting UEFI setup but I guess it's plausible.

I have heard numerous reports of how different manufacturers implement UEFI specs haphazardly.

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securitybreach

Shift Restart/Shutdown is a way of avoiding Fast Startup which is a hybrid hibernation mode. I haven't heard of it affecting UEFI setup but I guess it's plausible.

I have heard numerous reports of how different manufacturers implement UEFI specs haphazardly.

 

Yup, I was going to say the same thing. I also have not heard of it affecting UEFI. I haven't ran into any issues with those two but I am also not playing with Lenovos at work.

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I have not run Windows 10 at all on my T430. I have BIOS version 2.54. Secure Boot is off. The setup I have runs both UEFI and legacy BIOS but is set to try legacy first. This works fine with Linux.

As far as Windows 10 goes, I have found that a lot of updates/changes do not stick unless you choose Restart from the menu - not Shutdown.

 

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/how-to-use-advanced-options-in-windows-10-to-access-bios-settings/

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I have not run Windows 10 at all on my T430. I have BIOS version 2.54. Secure Boot is off. The setup I have runs both UEFI and legacy BIOS but is set to try legacy first. This works fine with Linux.

As far as Windows 10 goes, I have found that a lot of updates/changes do not stick unless you choose Restart from the menu - not Shutdown.

 

https://www.techrepu...-bios-settings/

I was trying to see if I would have any issues trying to change to Legacy Boot when I came across reports of issues with win10. If I wind up getting a machine with win10, I'll probably just get rid of it and hope for the best in terms of having voided the warranty. I'm not going to spend that much on a refurbished anyway.

 

Raymac, did you just delete all partitions with something like gparted when you got rid of win10? Did you have any issues deleting the epi partition?

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Hedon James

I have not run Windows 10 at all on my T430. I have BIOS version 2.54. Secure Boot is off. The setup I have runs both UEFI and legacy BIOS but is set to try legacy first. This works fine with Linux.

As far as Windows 10 goes, I have found that a lot of updates/changes do not stick unless you choose Restart from the menu - not Shutdown.

 

https://www.techrepu...-bios-settings/

I was trying to see if I would have any issues trying to change to Legacy Boot when I came across reports of issues with win10. If I wind up getting a machine with win10, I'll probably just get rid of it and hope for the best in terms of having voided the warranty. I'm not going to spend that much on a refurbished anyway.

 

Raymac, did you just delete all partitions with something like gparted when you got rid of win10? Did you have any issues deleting the epi partition?

 

Do NOT delete the EFI partition in a GPT scheme! This is where GRUB installs!

 

I ordered a GorillaBox (makers of Chimpbox) from an add in PC Linux magazine, but asked them to NOT install PCLOS, as I was going to install my custom Lubuntu distro over it. They gladly complied and shipped the machine even quicker than they said they would. Long story short, the motherboard had a UEFI implementation of BIOS and I got a crash course on installation of Linux to GPT partition schemes. The installation kept failing on the last step, which was a GRUB error that I don't remember. After about 2-3 failed attempts I fired up a gPartEd live cd and discovered that my partitions were fine and the OS had installed...it just wasn't booting. Troubleshooting was pretty quick after that...GPT partition schemes require an EFI partition for installation of GRUB. I created the partition with the recommended size, installed GRUB and....TADA....the newly installed OS booted right up.

 

If I had let the maker install PCLOS and then I over-wrote with my own, I would've been fine. If I had purchased a Win10 machine and over-wrote, or dual booted, I would've been fine. Instead, I cussed a lot, walked away several times, read some more, learned some things that I've probably forgotten already, but solved the problem and retained this knowledge....you need an EFI partition to boot UEFI/GPT installations! You're welcome! B)

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I believe from what I read that openSUSE creates the epi partition during install if you use the secure boot option. I don't want to do that--I think I'll use legacy boot.

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A couple of things that may help you. If the machine comes with windows and UEFI Bios, If you install linux and tell it to use the whole hard drive it will take care of all of the partitioning and will delete all of the windows partitions. It will erase the whole hard drive. if you don't want to do that then you can us gparted to partition the hard drive the way you want it. There are several advantages to using a UEFI Bios and GPT partitioning. I use GPT partitioning and can have as many Primary partitions without having to have a Extended Partition. You are not limited to 4 primary partitions like you are with legacy or MBR partitioning if you use UEFI and GPT partitioning. all of your partitions can be primary. there are many other advantages, but I won't go into them here. I wrote a post a long time ago about GPT versus MBR in this forum.

Mel

Edited by mhbell
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Yeah, UEFI requires a EFI boot partition to even work.

Even if I use Legacy Boot? Also, I believe openSUSE creates efi partition during install if Secure Boot option is enabled, but it's a little difficult to be sure with the documentation sometimes. I was curious how raymac handled this, since he says he reformatted before linux install.
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Raymac, did you just delete all partitions with something like gparted when you got rid of win10? Did you have any issues deleting the epi partition?

 

All I did was boot the Debian netinstall image from USB. Then I let the installer reformat the SSD and take it over, deleting everything on it. Debian formatted it as MBR and I have basically two partitions - one for the O/S and one for swap.

As I said earlier the setup boots in legacy format, so no need for EFI partitions.

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Let me just say I have nothing against GPT/EFI if you want to roll that way. In fact, I'll eventually reach a point where legacy won't be an option for me. Most modern distros do a good job with EFI anyway. Secure Boot is another matter - some support it, some don't.

I just stick with the defaults when installing and so far that has meant legacy.

Edited by raymac46
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securitybreach

Yeah, UEFI requires a EFI boot partition to even work.

Even if I use Legacy Boot? Also, I believe openSUSE creates efi partition during install if Secure Boot option is enabled, but it's a little difficult to be sure with the documentation sometimes. I was curious how raymac handled this, since he says he reformatted before linux install.

 

Legacy and UEFI are opposites. Legacy boot is MBR, UEFI uses EFI.

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Yeah, UEFI requires a EFI boot partition to even work.

Even if I use Legacy Boot? Also, I believe openSUSE creates efi partition during install if Secure Boot option is enabled, but it's a little difficult to be sure with the documentation sometimes. I was curious how raymac handled this, since he says he reformatted before linux install.

 

Legacy and UEFI are opposites. Legacy boot is MBR, UEFI uses EFI.

That much I do know. I'd like to stick with legacy I think.
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Raymac, did you just delete all partitions with something like gparted when you got rid of win10? Did you have any issues deleting the epi partition?

 

All I did was boot the Debian netinstall image from USB. Then I let the installer reformat the SSD and take it over, deleting everything on it. Debian formatted it as MBR and I have basically two partitions - one for the O/S and one for swap.

As I said earlier the setup boots in legacy format, so no need for EFI partitions.

My original issue was reading about some dual boots with linux/win10 on lenovo machines where users couldn't access uefi firmware when desired at startup due to issues with win10 not allowing it. I figured to be safe I'd rather get rid of win10 since I don't want to use it anyway. At this point, I think I'll have to just try the install as best I can when I get the machine and just see what happens. I'll have machine I'm currently using as a working backup (I hope--it's 9 years old and I don't feel I can really depend on it anymore) to ask questions if I get hung up. While I have read the basics on UEFI, I haven't yet had a system that uses it--I'm always using older hardware I take from my mother when I buy her a new windows machine. Edited by ebrke
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If you want to keep your windows that the machine comes with and don't want to mess with UEFI, you could always tell your Linux install to install along side windows if Suse lets you do that. Most people who are using legacy (MBR) have older computers with a Bios that does not support UEFI. The Bios has to support it. If the machine you are getting comes with windows 10 it probably has GPT partitioning and a UEFI Bios. Another thing most computers with UEFI Bios have a provision to disable secure boot. All modern computers now days have a UEFI Bios and most OS's are capable of installing on a GPT partitioned computer with UEFI. as a matter of fact you have to have a UEFI Capable Bios for GPT partitioning. If the computer you are getting Wont let you boot because of windows secure boot just turn it off in the Bios. You may have to press a key like F9 during boot upto choose the drive or partition you want to boot. My HP laptop is that way.

Mel

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I am pretty sure my T430 originally came with Windows 7 but when I got it last year as a refurb it had been upgraded to Windows 10. The setup is UEFI capable but will boot a legacy disk if desired. If I wanted to install a distro with a GPT/EFI setup that wouldn't be a problem.

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If you check through the Lenovo documentation you'll see that the T430 hasn't been tested by them for Windows 10 - they prefer you get something newer. That said the refurbishers install Windows 10 and it probably works just fine.

I wasn't at all interested in running Windows on it - it's a great Linux machine and that is why I have it.

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I believe openSUSE creates efi partition during install if Secure Boot option is enabled

Oops, my bad. Went back to the documentation and the sentence actually reads "If YaST detects EFI mode during the installation, it will try to create a GPT partition." Huge difference. I have to learn to read more carefully.

 

SUSE has a custom partitioning option in the install--I'm going to have to go in there and see exactly what partition setup it's proposing and work from there. I still think I'm going for Legacy Boot.

Edited by ebrke
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h2TIH7Q.jpg

 

If it helps here is a screenshot of my dual boot with Windows7 and Arch on a UEFI set up.

 

I installed Windows first and it created the first three partitions automatically. I limited the Windows install to half of the ssd. Arch was installed with a swap on the last three partitions. Arch's bootloader was put in the EFI partition,Windows automatically puts its boot loader in there too. rEFind was used rather than grub as it is easier to use and works automatically with Windows.

I believe Windows 10 will install in a similar fashion but as I am lucky enough not to have any experience of it I can only hazard a guess. :breakfast:

Edited by abarbarian
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Bottom line:

  • If you want to dual boot with Windows 10 you'll be faced with the UEFI / Secure Boot / Fastboot situations. Most Linux installers can cope with it if Secure Boot and Fastboot are disabled.
  • If you just want Linux the installer defaults will be fine. Either Legacy or UEFI will do a good job depending on how your motherboard's firmware is configured.
  • If you run either Windows or Linux and need the other O/S once in a while, just try a Virtual Machine.
  • I really like the idea of using rEFInd as your boot loader with dual boot situations, UEFI. Windows 10 and all that jazz.

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This is the way mine is set up for multi Boot linux only on SSD 1 (sda). I only use GPT partitions and UEFI. I use GPT because I don't have to have a extended partition. All partitions are primary with GPT Partitioning. See the link below for a Image.

Mel

Click Here for partition Image

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Thanks everyone. I'll see what happens once I finally get started (that is, when I can decide what to buy). I've done lots of SUSE installs over the years, but as I said, UEFI is new to me.

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