Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Prelude76

Jail for MP3 Pirates?

Recommended Posts

<< I listened to them on the radio for free for over three decades. >>ERRRT! Wrong-o! No you did not listen to them for free unless you were incredibly fast on the power switch. You're telling me that you listened to a radio for thirty years and never once heard a commercial? What do you think those are if not a source of revenue, income and the payment for delivering that music?
Still free for me to listen to and record - commercials pay the radio's licenses, employess and operational costs, I can edit the commercials out and still have the song. I didn't pay the radio station one cent.
Yep. Definitely free as in 'no money paid'. You can record perfectly acceptable quality music files off the air for free. Not as hi-fi as directly from a digital source, but not bad either. And you can do this using completely free software and then you can edit out the commercials using some other free software. This was sometimes the source of some of the mp3's you see being shared around the net, especially if it is older and more esoteric. It may have been sourced from a 33 year old reel- to- reel tape recording of an FM broadcast. I have just such a file. No, I am not sharing it online. Quality not so great to begin with, but lots better than nothing. Other stuff got pulled from scratchy old 33-1/3 rpm LP records. And of course the bulk of what gets shared probably was copied from CDs. Strictly illegal to share them online of course, of course. (Of course!)Smoke 'em if you got 'em, folks. This won't go on forever. Some day our freedoms we took for granted will be gone. Fair use? Forget it! RIAA is going apoplectic like some tiny, red- faced baby getting ready to cry, its face all scrunched up- they really scared granny and 10 year old Elizabeth, a career criminal in the making for sure, but still the P2P usership curves trend ever onwards and upwards. Nobody cares. The old forearm salute from the nation to RIAA and their cronies. "It riles them to believe that we perceive the web they weave..." Soon we will be an entire nation of criminals and everyone in jails with the exception of that neighbor boy up the street. You know the one. Quiet. Kept to himself. Sort of self- righteous. Yep, he's one of the few still on the outside. He's our jailer. And he loves to point his bony finger and intone the magic screech. Magic screech? Well, go rent the 1980's remake of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" with Donald Sutherland as the lead. Fast foreward to the very final scene, or better yet, watch the entire thing to the bitter end. Makes the ending more poignant. No, don't steal it by downloading it from the net. Go rent it at Blockbuster or something, so no poor folks get deprived of a few mils worth of royalties (fractional pennies). Heck, they might make five or ten bucks a year on that old stuff if only everybody were honest.Sutherland's character has been taken over and he has become a pod person. One of the few remaining humans on the planet quietly comes up to him and nervously speaks a few words of english. He stares at her with vacant eyes, points his finger at her and screeches. (English translation: "How dare you be a human! You must join the pod collective! Resistance is futile. I am Homer of Pod- you will be assim... Mmmm- plant fertilizer shaped like doughnuts!") Or is he really saying "Thieves! Criminals! You must buy your pod now! Human reproduction is illegal and copy- protected anyway. We are in control. Do not attempt to adjust your set. Pick up a pod and get in the line behind the truck...""In loyalty to their kind, they cannot tolerate our rise.In loyalty to our kind, we cannot tolerate their obstruction."Oops. Sorry. My bad. I slipped back into 60's revolutionary mode. Slap me upside the head with a soggy, rolled- up RIAA subpoena and I'll be fine. :) (For the record, CM is not engaged in any internet file- sharing) :lol: :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In actuality, the advertisers themselves are paying IN HOPES THAT YOU WILL BUY THEIR PRODUCT BY LISTENING TO THEIR ADS.Unless a person actually buys their product, the person IS NOT paying for it.
Correctomundo, Senorita la Bambi! :) :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
<< I listened to them on the radio for free for over three decades. >>ERRRT! Wrong-o! No you did not listen to them for free unless you were incredibly fast on the power switch. You're telling me that you listened to a radio for thirty years and never once heard a commercial? What do you think those are if not a source of revenue, income and the payment for delivering that music?
Still free for me to listen to and record - commercials pay the radio's licenses, employess and operational costs, I can edit the commercials out and still have the song. I didn't pay the radio station one cent.
But the kicker on this has always been that you couldn't get CD quality off the radio. There is new technology now that may change that in the future but that will just open another can of worms.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't like it? Don't buy it. If the majority of qualified consumers feel the same either the service will go away, or they'll learn to saturate you with advertising to pay for it. If you have a better way to do business, DO IT and stop whining, and stop using petty jusitications to legitimize your theft.
Good breakout and examples of how capitalism works, Marsden11! However, I think the logic and message will be ignored...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
one thing that puzzles me, what led to the creation of the 'middle class' anyways?  I know its shrinking fast everywhere i look,  rich getting richer while poor getting poorer, but even as recently as the 1920s, we didnt have much of middle class.  so what factor led to the growth in the middle class?  and can we get it revilatized with these same factors?  just a thought that intrigues me.
Reality is that the American middle class has been systematically embezzled out of most of its real wealth over the past century,
i know i'm way off topic, but the thread took an interesting 'big guy vs little guy' spin, so i thought i'd run with it. :lol:
Our whole world and everyone in it is corrupt to some degree. Therefore, it follows that it is OK to ignore or obey only those laws that make sense to you.
Why not? Big Business seems to think they can
touchee, Havnblast. :)
You asked a really good question back about 4 days ago, Prelude. I wanted to try to answer it but ran short of time. The whole 'middle class' thing is quite a big subject. I will leave it for some of the better historians in the group, but my answer would be that it was industrialization that spawned the middle class. We built a really powerful engine, both the industrial base itself and the society overall. Heavy industry brought us mass- production. They could crank out Ford Model "T" and model "A" cars so fast and inexpensive that a lot more people could afford them. It is a lot easier to commute in cars than by horse and buggy.Industrialization brought us farm machinery and we increased our efficiency so amazingly that we started growing surpluses and shipping them overseas. People started moving off the farms because less manual labor was now needed. They headed to the cities, and found jobs in the developing industries. And as the generations passed, some of the city cores began to be a bit run-down and became tougher neighborhoods, so a lot of the emerging middle class started moving out into the country again, but right next to the cities, so they could still get those good- paying city jobs. Thus you see the rise of rings of suburbs around cities, and suburbs were always by definition 'middle class'. (To be certain, portions of cities have also traditionally been 'middle class' as well for many years) It is maybe a little tricky to define just what 'middle class' is. I want to think about that one a bit more. It certainly involves attaining a certain critical mass of income level, well- integrated cooperative family structure, perhaps some education, a modicum of material possessions and access to tools. Perhaps a slightly different sort of social bond with neighbors as well. Whole libraries are written about this sort of stuff. Human societies evolve in some very complex ways.It is awesome and fascinating how we grew as a people from farm settings with no indoor plumbing and clothes getting washed by hand on washboards and folks getting around by horse drawn carriages- to sophisticated urban/ suburban hybrids with multi- faceted transportation schemes, indoor everything, and technology coming out the ears. We have become so highly specialized in our work that big chunks of the population would perish if things fell apart now. Nobody grows their own crops or raises their own livestock any more. We have become extremely dependent on each other for our mutual survival. And all this happened in the course of little more than a century or two.The sad part is that an economic form of inner decay is now setting in within the heart of our population. The social contract is breaking down and the middle class is very much under attack economically. This is all basically a result of living beyond our means as a people for several generations now. We mortgaged our descendent's futures to get by today. All the ingredients are now there to recreate the old caste system seen for so many years in Europe, where there was only a very small 'middle class' such as some artisans, the sheriff and his men (tax collectors, military, etc.), and probably not much else. There were the few landed nobility (they owned or had sway over land), the royals, and pretty much everyone else was a peasant to be exploited and starved. Nice, eh? That is where we may be headed once again, and that is what I mean by "...systematic embezzlement of the real wealth of the middle class". The middle class is about to go bankrupt en masse and implode.(To be continued...)(Don't like this story? Rewrite it!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But the kicker on this has always been that you couldn't get CD quality off the radio.  There is new technology now that may change that in the future but that will just open another can of worms.
you nailed it bang on.the funny thing is, the RIAA did try to stop Cassettes, just as the MPAA did try to stop VHS, saying both would be the end of the music/movie industry. i used to tape songs from Radio to Cassette all the time as a kid, til i got some money and bought some cassettes of my own.and you know what? Cassettes and VHS were allowed to go on, and the music/movie industry boomed instead of ending.now with Mp3s and CDs, we have the exact same recycled arguements, only 2 things are different: technology makes perfect copies, and the DCMA bill was introduced. oh, and the government is siding with the RIAA and MPAA this time around, and the consumer gets shafted.and Marsden, that is some way-out thinking you got. you're equaling 'gang-bang' thieves to digital song replicating, and then you're equaling Advertisment to Indirect Purchase. what next, saying Oranges are actualy Apples and case closed?dont assume that if i hear a radio commercial, i'm indirectly paying for the music. Advetisment has zero effect on me. I drink Soya, not milk. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The middle class is about to go bankrupt en masse and implode.(To be continued...)(Don't like this story? Rewrite it!)
thanks for the info, Clutter. :lol: it's almost as if everyone in middle class is racing like mad to get to the upper class, as if they *know* the middle class will be disperssed soon. 50 Cent's album kinda says it somewhat, "Get Rich or Die Tryin'". though i still hate his music. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a couple additional thoughts to toss out:1) The record labels do indeed give away CDs, new ones, of current releases. They're called promos or cut-outs. Probably 1000 or so CDs in my collection are promos. We got them every "new release Tuesday" and at our annual meetings. The profit that's lost from giving these away comes out of the artist's cut. So the labels are also ripping off the artists. The promos are intended to be played in-store, to encourage sales. That's usually called a "loss leader", and is common in business. Most major chain grocery stores sell milk for less than they pay for it, then stock it in the rear of the store. Why? Because surveys show that everyone buys milk more often than most other items, buys more milk if the price is low, and buys other items as they walk through the store to the dairy case. Business models are fairly complex, and often unique to the type of merchandise sold by that particular store. Market surveys often dictate how your merchandise is stocked and sold. BTW, we also got promo DVDs and video games, hats, books, jackets...2) Whatever happened to the concept that the airwaves belong to the people? The radio stations pay a licensing fee to use public airwaves...then charge advertisers to help recoup some of those costs. The advertisers do hope you'll buy their product, but the station could care less. They just want to make back some of what it's costing them to be in business. They can also make money under the table from corrupt record labels who will pay to get their artists played.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Recording off the radio - totally flawed analogy. Average human hearing range is about 20khz. However, above and below offer richness on the low end and brightness on the high. A CD is a digital representation of 44khz. An FM radio broadcast is theoretically 18khz max. In practice, 12-14khz primetime, 9khz off-time. Copying a CD gives you 100% reproduction of the original data. A radio station does digital to analog conversion - multiple times. That's known as the number of generations. They take a CD and convert it to analog at the board. 1st generation. Analog resample conversion again in the transmitter. 2nd generation. You copy it to tape - 3rd generation. You sample it into the computer: 4th generation. By the time your friend gets a copy of that original 14khz, you're lucky to see 8khz. The music sounds like crap.Copy that CD and you have an exact duplicate of the original. Everyone tosses around this DMCA like it's something mystical. BS! DMCA primarily is an enforcement clause to a law that has been on the books since 1976, and addresses some issues brought to the forefront in this digital age. Since 1976, Sound Recordings have been covered under this - see Title 17 Chapter 11 § 1101 specifically. To wit: (a) Unauthorized Acts. — Anyone who, without the consent of the performer or performers involved — (1) fixes the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord, or reproduces copies or phonorecords of such a performance from an unauthorized fixation,(2) transmits or otherwise communicates to the public the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance, or(3) distributes or offers to distribute, sells or offers to sell, rents or offers to rent, or traffics in any copy or phonorecord fixed as described in paragraph (1), regardless of whether the fixations occurred in the United States,Now this seems pretty obvious. But things like "phonorecord" are a little dated. Enter DMCA - simply an extension to a ~30 year old law.Title 17 Fair Use clearly states that if the value of the work is not significantly impacted - then it's exempted. An 8khz recording from a crappy radio with a DJ talking over the song that you had to wait fifteen hours for with your finger perched over the record button? Very Very different world there..."Only the big companies are getting hurt" Ummhmm. Don't be stupid. Mr. Big is not getting hurt. They never do.No. Want to know who gets hurt? Here you go:I run a company, and illegal trafficking has impacted my revenue. My margins get smaller. What do I do? I hunker down and protect my bottom line. I cut expenses to raise margins. You know that sound engineer who was making $42k/year? Now he's making $27k. You know the CD pressing company? I just put them on notice. I'm not paying $0.28/disk any more. I'm paying $0.18 - or I go elsewhere. (I can put all the pressure in the world on them)You know the janitor who was making ten bucks an hour every night? Now he makes $7.00/hr every second night. The guy who waters the plants in the lobby? Fired. The receptionist can do it now.My bottom line stays the same. Everyone from the bottom of the food chain to the middle got screwed. How does that effect your liberal "sticking it to the man" conscious?!? "you can't do that!" Sure I can. That's the way business works. When times are good, I extend. When times are lean, I pull in. Now I need to spend money to keep from bleeding out completely. Money on lawyers, lobbyists, lunches... Where does that come from? I don't really need someone to answer the phone AND greet people at the front desk. One of the two will do fine. She's gone. You're doing nothing but killing the little guy.<< and the consumer gets shafted. >>Are you familiar with the concept of a "consumer"? Copy music and you're not a "consumer" - you're a thief. You have to BUY something to be a consumer. You're right, though. The consumer does get shafted. They get shafted because I have to raise my margins at their expense.And you are aware that a radio station gets a special break because it's promotional, right? The record company is betting that by listening to a song or two from an album, you'll be incited to go and buy it so you can play it at your leisure and at significantly better quality.Frankly, the rest of the replys I have read here are just psychobabble, petty self justification for breaking a federal law that has been on the books forever. It's lame, it's tired, and at the end of it all you either: cause more legislation that will make it even more difficult to listen to rightfully owned content or: if you have your way, you end up putting everyone from the mid level to the lowest rung out on the street, ultimately making it no longer worthwhile for the record lable to produce.Guess what? It's a private enterprise. They owe you _nothing_ and _nothing_ is what you get when you break their back. You muck it up for the rest of the world...<< Unless a person actually buys their product, the person IS NOT paying for it >> Errrt! Only semi right. Advertising works. What, you think everyone in business is so stupid they'd keep paying for something that didn't?!?! Statistically, the advertising covers expenses and returns positive cashflow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what perfect world you live in but I am afraid to say the crime starts with the big business and trickles right on down the ladder.You think we the people are bad - are you blind to big business practices? You say the replies are babble? Your babble isn't any better I am afraid to say. It's not us the people that are crippling this nation. You can recite laws till your blue in the face, but who are those laws really protecting? Amazing the wave that gets set off from the top when the little guy steps out of line and steals a song, but yet they have their hands in our pockets all the time, but obviously that is ok with you cause than you don't have to fire that janitor that you really never needed in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know what perfect world you live in but I am afraid to say the crime starts with the big business and trickles right on down the ladder.You think we the people are bad - are you blind to big business practices?  You say the replies are babble?  Your babble isn't any better I am afraid to say.  It's not us the people that are crippling this nation.
well said.everyone should have a read thru this. http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.htmlIt explains just how sacred and special this 'free enterprise' models works, thru the eyes of Walmart. They do everything to 'get you the lowest price', but take a look at how it effects everything else around you.and also give "Roger and Me" a viewing, a documentary about how GM has records profits the same year they capsize the entire town of Flint, MI. in its current state, 'Free Capitalistic Enterprise' is flawed and all the decks are stacked in the favor of big business. Marsden, i hear what you're saying that by not buying CDs, the RIAA still gets same cut, they just elminitae all the low to middle end jobs along the way. but on the flipside, if i did start buying CDs again, you think the RIAA will re-create those jobs? heck no! they're now more lean and efficient, and those extra 'sales' will just go to double their profits. many of us know how the system works, so that's why working 'outside the system' is becoming more and more popular, and the more 'laws' and 'copyrights' and 'digital enforcement' is forced down consumers' throats, the more rampant piracy will become. 'Screwing the System' is a very popular choice for everyone that believes the System is Screwing them, and its only going to get worse as the System gets the People's Democratic Power (i.e. the Government) 100% on their side. me smells another social-lead revolution brewing. people revolt once too much sh*t is thrown at them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I may have to seriously consider boycotting WalMart now too! LOL! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, I may have to seriously consider boycotting WalMart now too! LOL!  :lol:
i thought about it too, but i'd only be hurting myself by having to buy more expensive goods elsewhere. it's a very sharp double-edged sword, isn't it? :lol: besides, Atlantic & Pacific (A&P) as the article mentions had similar huge cut-throat business practices in the early part of 1900s, up until government stepped in and put stricter regulations in place. so let's just sit here and hope that governments will soon step up to the challenge and reign in on the RIAA, Microsoft, Walmart, etc...yeah, that'll happen :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I hear ya. With the economy the way it is, WalMart is more of a necessity than CDs. LOL! :lol: Let's hope things do get turned around for the better in the economy. Blaming economic issues on filesharing is ludicrous. When the economy is down, businesses pull in their belts.It is happening in nearly every type of business. And many folks have to make their economic decisions based on need. For me, I don't need any new CDs to live (I have enough CDs, vinyl, cassettes, 8-tracks, reel-to-reel tapes to keep me in music for the rest of my life), but I do need very good pricing on goods that I do need to live, like asperin (for arthritis relief), toothpaste or at least some baking soda and peroxide to keep my teeth clean, food on the table, fuel for the car and heater, electricity, and unfortunately car insurance, etc. LOL!Getting music online is not an option unless I can get it legitimately and without DRM. DRM is not going to be on our computers. That's one thing that will go the way of the dodo as far as I am concerned. I do not share my music with the world and I expect to be able to have fair use of what I buy. Plain and simple.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Frankly, the rest of the replys I have read here are just psychobabble, petty self justification
Gee whiz, sorry we're not posting up to your standards. :lol: Frankly, the rest of the posts I have read here managed to make their point without being disparaging or condescending. And the rest of the posts are in response to other member's opinions...not imaginary quotations. Record labels are ultimately at the mercy of the buying public. Illegal downloads hurt them, but they have a government approved method of coming after you for that. A boycott, on the other hand, can't be prevented or legislated against. That, and letter writing (to the artists, not the labels) are the two best options to get the label's attention. And eventually they will have to come up with a better business practice than just dumping on their customers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey Fran, here's a RFID paranoia page for you!  :lol:
Oh, Joy! LOL! :lol: :w00t:Let's see that takes care of needing to go to WalMart, Target, and a few others. Wow, at this rate, I will be back to buying from the farm and making my own clothes again! LOL!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RFID isnt that 'evil' its made out to be. it has a range of only 20 to 30 feet. its usage is for inventory control, especially if you want to do business with Walmart and such. Walmart insist on very strict computerized inventory tracking and 30-second window for incoming deliveries, so if you're only making 10 cents on each gillette razor, you need all the help you can get to co-ordinate all the orders and shipments across Walmart's 8,500 stores. so its ironic how Gillette is ****** if they do, ****** if they dont. they made a decision to go to RDIF so they can stay up-to-the-minute on top of wally-world's orders, and now that the system is in place, they're facing a public boycott. if you screw up shipping and timing and hold up wally-world, you might get canned from their select line of distributors, and there goes Gillette, including all the factories and workers.i mean, RFID is only useful for inventory control and maybe to counter shoplifting. that website goes a bit too gloomy and far fetched, saying how people can spy at you (from the next room only, since range is 30feet) and *gasp* find out what RAZOR you're using! o:) why not boycott something a lot more sinister and potentially exploitable? GM's Onstar system. sattelite can track your every move in those cars. heck, it can even start or stop your engine from space! but that technology is ok, since its beneficial to the consumer (thru navigation help) yet something insignificant like inventory tracking in Gillette razor is the end of the world, because it only benefits Gillette (and keeps thousands of workers employed). i'm sure GM would let feds or police have 100% access to your vehicles Onstar system the second a subpoena is shown. so much for fleeing from the cops! :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Perhaps when the 98% stop using self serving rationalizations to do anything they darn well please, the 2% will stop feeling the need to use iron fisted draconian measures to control them.
We all have the right of opinion. And my opinion is that statement is one of the biggest loads of B.S. I have ever heard.
The Queen of France, when approached by worried aides about widespread starvation and the fact that the peasants had no bread, is quoted as having said "Then let them eat cake." She soon lost her head, however, in one of thousands of acts of mob vengeance. It is an oft- quoted reference that well summarizes the cavalier attitude of generations of aristocrats. The faces change, but the game remains the same.
Frankly, the rest of the replys I have read here are just psychobabble, petty self justification for breaking a federal law that has been on the books forever. It's lame, it's tired, and at the end of it all you either: cause more legislation that will make it even more difficult to listen to rightfully owned content or: if you have your way, you end up putting everyone from the mid level to the lowest rung out on the street, ultimately making it no longer worthwhile for the record lable (sic) to produce.
Clearly, this attitude aligns with and throws in with the 'Sheriff of Nottingham' of our particular generation. There are only going to be increased incidences of poaching on the King's lands as the years roll by. Trouble is, one then becomes increasingly subject to attack by highwaymen, especially when passing through forested areas. It becomes increasingly expensive to train, equip, and support sufficiently robust forces with which to fight off all the attacks by criminals. What we do not have are any laws on the books that require those entrusted with power to behave ethically in the tradition of "good king Wenceslas", who was apparently a much- beloved monarch, but unfortunately all too unique and exceptional. Instead, what we have is Enron- and far, far worse.In time, every little petty misdemeanor becomes a federal offense, and the people reluctantly conclude that the law has become dysfunctional and immoral, a weapon to be used against them to enforce a confiscatory policy leading to their impoverishment and ultimately their early demise. (40 million without medical insurance in the US today! And many millions without jobs.) The Sheriff in theory could have set up 'soup kitchens' and fed the peasants far more cheaply than equipping a large army of enforcers, but the fly in the ointment is that such oppressive regimes are so inbred, so unimaginative and clueless, and so damnably inefficient that they are impotent at creating enough basic consumer goods to meet the needs of the populace. There wasn't enough food for the peasants anyway, so that was not an option. Such is reality when you have a heartless ruling class that survives- no thrives- by sucking the life out of the peasant class. If your only tool is a hammer, you are going to tend to try to do everything using that hammer. § 2011. DefinitionsAdd the following between "abuse" and "peasants":The term "heartless" includes public utterances of a judgemental orcondemnatory nature such as to clearly establish that the offendersees themself as separate from and superior to the greater massesof humanity.77 World Code of Justice. Titles 56 & 57§ 56. Criminal offenses(a) Criminal Neglect.--Any person who knowingly and willfully and forpurposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain enjoysa position of power and influence, with all the honors, accolades, andcreature comforts attaching thereto, and who does intentionally allowharm or suffering to come to any person or persons of the peasant classwhen such distress is visibly manifest and easily remedied shall be,by their inappropriate acts of either commission or omission, guilty ofcriminal neglect in the third degree, and shall be duly punished asprovided in section 2919 of title 78. either-- (1.) Beaten and then run out of town by an angry mob carrying torches and pitchforks, murmering "Kill the monster! Kill the monster!", or (2.) Compelled to work as slave labor in the most menial and odious work that can be found for them, starved just short of posing a risk of imminent death, and separated from all the wealth and worldly possessions they have accumulated, said holdings to be redistributed amongst the peasantry from which said assets ultimately originated. For purposes of this subsection, evidence of criminal neglect need not be soundly and compellingly established in a court of law, such institutions having been used in the past to abuse, confuse, and harm the peasants. It shall be sufficient for a minimum of five peasants or seven rehabilitated nobles to give testimony at the Frontier Justice Circle of Judgement at their local evening Bonfire of Acrimonious Reallocation of Funds (BARF), the only corroboration required being murmers of general assent from the crowd with the torches and pitchforks. :rolleyes: :'(It is most telling to look at the acts of American aristocracy of about a century ago. Trying to atone for some of their excesses, people like the Carnegies and Rockefellers endowed vast foundations whose work was intended to be of a philanthropic nature. A step in the right direction at least, clearly showing that even shriveled souls can have a conscience- or at least some sort of dread of possible judgement in an afterlife. They only did this in the fullness of time, near or at the ends of their lives. That they did it at all is most profound and speaks volumes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But Prelude, On Star is, according to the spin doctors in GM's ad department, a "feature". Nothing to worry about, it's a "feature". :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny how history repeats itself. Although, I was thinking more along the lines of the Boston Tea Party LOL!Here's a quote from the Ladies during that time:

A Lady's Adieu to Her Tea-TableFAREWELL the Tea-board with your gaudy attire, Ye cups and ye saucers that I did admire; To my cream pot and tongs I now bid adieu; That pleasure's all fled that I once found in you. Farewell pretty chest that so lately did shine, With hyson and congo and best double fine; Many a sweet moment by you I have sat, Hearing girls and old maids to tattle and chat; And the spruce coxcomb laugh at nothing at all, Only some silly work that might happen to fall. No more shall my teapot so generous be In filling the cups with this pernicious tea, For I'll fill it with water and drink out the same, Before I'll lose LIBERTY that dearest name, Because I am taught (and believe it is fact) That our ruins is aimed at in the late act, Of imposing a duty on all foreign teas, Which detestable stuff we can quit when we please. LIBERTY'S the Goddess that I do adore, And I'll maintain her right until my last hour, Before she shall part I will die in the cause, For I'll never be govern'd by tyranny's laws.
It was not just the tax that bothered Americans when the Boston Tea Party was held. They were very concerned with liberty as a whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But Prelude, On Star is, according to the spin doctors in GM's ad department, a "feature".  Nothing to worry about, it's a "feature".  :rolleyes:
Good one Jeber!Only a feature, only a feature ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But Prelude, On Star is, according to the spin doctors in GM's ad department, a "feature".  Nothing to worry about, it's a "feature".  o:)
B) same as Human Chip Implants that track your kids when they get stolen by a midnight boogeyman.or street cameras are for the safety of the public to deter crime, as we all know, robbers and crooks are terrified of cameras. B) . no way will it ever be used against the people, such as how they were used in Portland to control and arrest War Protesters. nothing to see here, please step behind the yellow line, and conform to your government-issued sheep suit.the biggest strongest force we have against 'the system' is the lovely thing called "Internet", where i can log on and dicuss topics with strangers, read Michael Moore's daily news clips, go to Al Jazeera or BBC to get a different view of world events, and use the info on some websites to co-ordinate the mass protest planned against GW Bush today in London, UK.my biggest fear is one day, 'the system' will have a enough, and through disguises of 'copyright infrigment', 'pedophilia', 'terrorism cells' and other lame excuses, they'll force the internet to be unplugged, or (more likely) 'converted' into a 100% regulared government entity, as TV and Radio are. when that happens, lock your doors, the revolution will begin. :rolleyes: B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And whatever replaces the system ...will become the system...scary huh? If history is any clue.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Funny how history repeats itself. Although, I was thinking more along the lines of the Boston Tea Party LOL!
History doesn't repeat. Once it's gone - it's gone. We just don't ever seem to LEARN from what has happened in the past...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...