Hedon James Posted November 18 Posted November 18 52 minutes ago, raymac46 said: My turn.. I had only some libs from the extra repo to upgrade. Rebooted and all is well. [ray@ray-virtualbox ~]$ inxi -Fxz System: Kernel: 6.11.8-arch1-2 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 14.2.1 Desktop: LXQt v: 2.1.1 Distro: EndeavourOS base: Arch Linux Machine: Type: Virtualbox System: innotek GmbH product: VirtualBox v: 1.2 serial: <superuser required> Mobo: Oracle model: VirtualBox v: 1.2 serial: <superuser required> UEFI: innotek GmbH v: VirtualBox date: 12/01/2006 CPU: Info: dual core model: 11th Gen Intel Core i7-11700 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Rocket Lake rev: 1 cache: L1: 160 KiB L2: 1024 KiB L3: 32 MiB Speed (MHz): avg: 2496 min/max: N/A cores: 1: 2496 2: 2496 bogomips: 9987 Flags: avx avx2 ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 Graphics: Device-1: InnoTek Systemberatung GmbH VirtualBox Graphics Adapter vendor: VMware driver: vboxvideo v: kernel bus-ID: 00:02.0 Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.14 driver: X: loaded: modesetting gpu: vboxvideo resolution: 1920x974~60Hz API: EGL v: 1.5 drivers: swrast platforms: active: x11,surfaceless,device inactive: gbm,wayland API: OpenGL v: 4.5 vendor: mesa v: 24.2.7-arch1.1 glx-v: 1.4 direct-render: yes renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 18.1.8 256 bits) Audio: Device-1: Intel 82801AA AC97 Audio vendor: Dell driver: snd_intel8x0 v: kernel bus-ID: 00:05.0 API: ALSA v: k6.11.8-arch1-2 status: kernel-api Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.2.6 status: active Network: Device-1: Intel 82540EM Gigabit Ethernet driver: e1000 v: kernel port: c1a0 bus-ID: 00:03.0 IF: enp0s3 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> Device-2: Intel 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI type: network bridge driver: piix4_smbus v: N/A port: N/A bus-ID: 00:07.0 Drives: Local Storage: total: 20.15 GiB used: 8.41 GiB (41.7%) ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: VirtualBox model: VBOX HARDDISK size: 20.15 GiB Partition: ID-1: / size: 18.68 GiB used: 8.32 GiB (44.5%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda2 Swap: Alert: No swap data was found. Sensors: Src: lm-sensors+/sys Message: No sensor data found using /sys/class/hwmon or lm-sensors. Info: Memory: total: 6 GiB available: 5.67 GiB used: 1003.2 MiB (17.3%) Processes: 168 Uptime: 4m Init: systemd Packages: 870 Compilers: gcc: 14.2.1 Shell: Bash v: 5.2.37 inxi: 3.3.36 [ray@ray-virtualbox ~]$ I'll have to wait until a kernel update I think. it's interesting to me that your kernel appears to be the latest & greatest(?) 6.11.8, and you're using the vboxvideo driver for the Innotek VirtualGraphics card. Here's my inxi for ease of comparison between the 2 VMs: [jim@EndeavourVM ~]$ inxi -Fxz System: Kernel: 6.6.62-1-lts arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 14.2.1 Desktop: LXQt v: 2.1.1 Distro: EndeavourOS base: Arch Linux Machine: Type: Kvm System: QEMU product: Standard PC (Q35 + ICH9, 2009) v: pc-q35-7.2 serial: <superuser required> Mobo: N/A model: N/A serial: N/A BIOS: SeaBIOS v: 1.16.2-debian-1.16.2-1 date: 04/01/2014 CPU: Info: 2x 1-core model: AMD Ryzen 5 PRO 2400GE w/ Radeon Vega Graphics bits: 64 type: SMP arch: Zen rev: 0 cache: L1: 2x 128 KiB (256 KiB) L2: 2x 512 KiB (1024 KiB) L3: 2x 16 MiB (32 MiB) Speed (MHz): avg: 3194 min/max: N/A cores: 1: 3194 2: 3194 bogomips: 12780 Flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm Graphics: Device-1: Red Hat Virtio 1.0 GPU driver: virtio-pci v: 1 bus-ID: 00:01.0 Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 21.1.14 driver: X: loaded: modesetting gpu: virtio-pci resolution: 1280x800~75Hz API: EGL v: 1.5 drivers: kms_swrast,swrast platforms: active: gbm,x11,surfaceless,device inactive: wayland API: OpenGL v: 4.5 vendor: mesa v: 24.2.7-arch1.1 glx-v: 1.4 direct-render: yes renderer: llvmpipe (LLVM 18.1.8 256 bits) Audio: Device-1: Intel 82801I HD Audio vendor: Red Hat QEMU Virtual Machine driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 API: ALSA v: k6.6.62-1-lts status: kernel-api Server-1: PipeWire v: 1.2.6 status: active Network: Device-1: Red Hat Virtio 1.0 network driver: virtio-pci v: 1 port: N/A bus-ID: 01:00.0 IF-ID-1: enp1s0 state: up speed: -1 duplex: unknown mac: <filter> Drives: Local Storage: total: 20 GiB used: 8.42 GiB (42.1%) ID-1: /dev/vda model: N/A size: 20 GiB Partition: ID-1: / size: 19.51 GiB used: 8.42 GiB (43.2%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/vda1 Swap: Alert: No swap data was found. Sensors: Src: lm-sensors+/sys Message: No sensor data found using /sys/class/hwmon or lm-sensors. Info: Memory: total: 4 GiB available: 3.83 GiB used: 857.5 MiB (21.9%) Processes: 175 Uptime: 19m Init: systemd Packages: 886 Compilers: gcc: 14.2.1 Shell: Bash v: 5.2.37 inxi: 3.3.36 Quote
raymac46 Posted November 18 Author Posted November 18 I more or less followed the suggestions here: https://discovery.endeavouros.com/applications/installing-endeavouros-on-virtualbox/2021/03/ It's a bit outdated, but I had not used the VBoxSVGA and 256MB of video RAM before. Other differences are largely due to your choice of VMM and my choice of VBox. I don't think your AMD vs my Intel CPU will make that much of a difference. We'll see. 1 Quote
Hedon James Posted November 19 Posted November 19 7 hours ago, raymac46 said: I more or less followed the suggestions here: https://discovery.endeavouros.com/applications/installing-endeavouros-on-virtualbox/2021/03/ It's a bit outdated, but I had not used the VBoxSVGA and 256MB of video RAM before. Other differences are largely due to your choice of VMM and my choice of VBox. I don't think your AMD vs my Intel CPU will make that much of a difference. We'll see. I agree. I'm noting kernels and graphics drivers as variables of interest. And graphics drivers were dictated by choice of VM software. 1 Quote
raymac46 Posted November 19 Author Posted November 19 I'm also watching for truncated or corrupted mirrorlist library items that might crash pacman. Quote
raymac46 Posted November 19 Author Posted November 19 (edited) Bingo! A kernel update destroyed all the Guest Additions and normal boot. I rebooted into a Firmware Interface and all mouse movement was messed up so I could not even close the file and shut down the VM. The VM is irretrievably broken. No way to do anything but trash it. Edited November 19 by raymac46 Quote
raymac46 Posted November 19 Author Posted November 19 Forgot to mention that this VBox VM was using EFI and the default systemd bootloader. Seemed to be simple enough but I think the entries to the bootloader got messed up by the kernel update. In any event, EndeavourOS is very unstable in VirtualBox. The reboot crashed my entire system and I had to do a hard shutdown to recover in Windows. Quote
Hedon James Posted November 19 Posted November 19 Okay...my VM was Legacy/MBR, but that shouldn't be an issue based on the symptoms. I think it's telling you can't get to GRUB to invoke the desktop manager. If you could get to GRUB, you could choose the older kernel and proceed. That suggests to ME your graphics driver in the VM is the issue. And it sounds like there's a "race condition" of sorts if VBox takes down the entire WindowsOS. While I use Virtual Machine Manager (kvm & qemu) now, once upon a time, I used VBox to virtualize guests on my Linux OS (first Ubuntu, then Lubuntu, now Debian). Never an issue, certainly not like yours. I have to believe you aren't the only, or even the first user to experience this. I believe there are likely WAY more Windows users of VBox than Linux users, and many of those users must have installed Arch or an Arch derivate. For some reason, you have a combination that doesn't play well together. The ONE thing we know for certain, is that a new kernel takes down your VM. The earlier links I posted, folks were putting an ISO in the virtual drive and chrooting into the installed VM and repairing images with dkms. Doesn't seem practical to do everytime it happens, but maybe once as a test for fix? My other comment/observation is that you were using the latest kernel, while I chose the LTS kernel. I wonder if an LTS kernel would behave for you? speculating... Quote
raymac46 Posted November 19 Author Posted November 19 I can try another install with the LTS and normal GRUB boot. I'll try that later on. BTW I just updated to the latest kernel in EndeavourOS on my junker laptop. No problems at all. Nor do I have problems with Vbox and Debian based distros. Quote
Hedon James Posted November 19 Posted November 19 Looks like you could run virt-manager on Windows?! https://hostkey.com/documentation/technical/service_management/virtmanager_install/ Alternatively, you could scrap Arch derivates as VMs in VBox on Windows, and just stick with MX? Options are good, right?! 1 Quote
Hedon James Posted November 19 Posted November 19 (edited) 9 minutes ago, raymac46 said: I can try another install with the LTS and normal GRUB boot. I'll try that later on. BTW I just updated to the latest kernel in EndeavourOS on my junker laptop. No problems at all. Nor do I have problems with Vbox and Debian based distros. something about the way Arch/pacman handles dkms when building new kernels. all your observations and my observations are pointing that way. EDIT: Found this as issue of potential interest also, potential boot parameter issue for Arch kernels, and brief discussion of latest vs. LTS kernels: https://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?t=106715 Edited November 19 by Hedon James 1 Quote
raymac46 Posted November 19 Author Posted November 19 Well if I wanted to have VMs in Linux, going to VMM looks like the answer. However, my interest in VMs (if any) will be confined to Windows hosts. I suppose I could switch over to VMWare where I don't have to build Guest Additions. Quote
Hedon James Posted November 19 Posted November 19 18 minutes ago, raymac46 said: I can try another install with the LTS and normal GRUB boot. I'll try that later on. BTW I just updated to the latest kernel in EndeavourOS on my junker laptop. No problems at all. Nor do I have problems with Vbox and Debian based distros. both issues pointing squarely at VBox graphics driver and/or VM kernel boot parameter. there's your 2 layered problem, if correct, and both issues (overlayed) explain your symptoms. too soon to say for certain...could be coincidence, but it's a solid theory to be disproven. speaking of kernel issues....the dkms parameters must match on VBox host AND guest. Not sure how that applies for a Windows host? Is your VBox the latest & greatest? Another potential issue seems to be the use of 3D acceleration, which I'm willing to bet affects the graphics driver. Try disabling 3D: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/VirtualBox/Install_Arch_Linux_as_a_guest#No_hardware_3D_acceleration_in_Arch_Linux_guest You have also referenced Guest Additions. Are you installing the Guest Additions to guest from the Guest Additions ISO disk, or installing from Arch repos via CLI? I had quit using VBoxs Guest Additions ISO long ago, and started using native guest repos to install virtualbox-guest-utils. I don't know that's a potential issue, but trying to be thorough with simple configuration fixes. FWIW... Quote
Hedon James Posted November 19 Posted November 19 11 minutes ago, raymac46 said: Well if I wanted to have VMs in Linux, going to VMM looks like the answer. However, my interest in VMs (if any) will be confined to Windows hosts. I suppose I could switch over to VMWare where I don't have to build Guest Additions. I hear you. That would be last on my list of preferred solutions. I would be looking into Arch VM boot parameters and installing guest additions via Arch repo first. That's your low-hanging fruit, IMO. If that doesn't work, I'd try to boot with the installation media, mount the VM disk, and chroot into the guest VM (vda?) to install native guest additions, and update GRUB. If that didn't work, I'd remove the last kernel that crashed and update GRUB (to force boot with prior kernel). And if you have to re-install Endeavour to try those solutions, I'd be installing in Legacy/MBR mode. If you can get to the GRUB screen, that would be quite helpful (and yield a clue) for future troubleshooting. JMO... Quote
raymac46 Posted November 19 Author Posted November 19 Back again now with Legacy install (no EFI) and GRUB. Running LTS kernel. Quote
raymac46 Posted November 19 Author Posted November 19 Grub screen shows lts-kernel, lts-kernel-fallback, regular kernel, regular kernel fallback. Quote
raymac46 Posted November 19 Author Posted November 19 [ray@ray-virtualbox ~]$ pacman -Qi virtualbox-guest-utils Name : virtualbox-guest-utils Version : 7.1.4-1 Description : VirtualBox Guest userspace utilities Architecture : x86_64 URL : https://virtualbox.org/ Licenses : GPL custom:CDDL Groups : None Provides : None Depends On : glibc pam libx11 libxcomposite libxdamage libxext libxfixes libxmu libxt xorg-xrandr xf86-video-vmware VIRTUALBOX-GUEST-MODULES Optional Deps : None Required By : None Optional For : None Conflicts With : virtualbox-archlinux-additions virtualbox-guest-additions virtualbox-guest-utils-nox virtualbox-guest-dkms Replaces : virtualbox-archlinux-additions virtualbox-guest-additions virtualbox-guest-dkms Installed Size : 4.11 MiB Packager : Christian Hesse <eworm@archlinux.org> Build Date : Tue 15 Oct 2024 12:00:51 PM Install Date : Tue 19 Nov 2024 11:15:53 AM Install Reason : Explicitly installed Install Script : No Validated By : Signature [ray@ray-virtualbox ~]$ Quote
Hedon James Posted November 19 Posted November 19 29 minutes ago, raymac46 said: [ray@ray-virtualbox ~]$ pacman -Qi virtualbox-guest-utils Name : virtualbox-guest-utils Version : 7.1.4-1 Description : VirtualBox Guest userspace utilities Architecture : x86_64 URL : https://virtualbox.org/ Licenses : GPL custom:CDDL Groups : None Provides : None Depends On : glibc pam libx11 libxcomposite libxdamage libxext libxfixes libxmu libxt xorg-xrandr xf86-video-vmware VIRTUALBOX-GUEST-MODULES Optional Deps : None Required By : None Optional For : None Conflicts With : virtualbox-archlinux-additions virtualbox-guest-additions virtualbox-guest-utils-nox virtualbox-guest-dkms Replaces : virtualbox-archlinux-additions virtualbox-guest-additions virtualbox-guest-dkms Installed Size : 4.11 MiB Packager : Christian Hesse <eworm@archlinux.org> Build Date : Tue 15 Oct 2024 12:00:51 PM Install Date : Tue 19 Nov 2024 11:15:53 AM Install Reason : Explicitly installed Install Script : No Validated By : Signature [ray@ray-virtualbox ~]$ that's interesting that virtualbox-guest-utils conflicts with (and replaces) all those other vbox packages/modules. especially noted....virtualbox-guest-dkms module! virtualbox-guest-utils is reported as version 7.1.4-1. what version is the Virtualbox Guest Additions iso installed via VB? Might be worth noting?! Quote
raymac46 Posted November 19 Author Posted November 19 VBox I'm using is 7.1 so the guest-utils are current enough. The Guest additions ISO doesn't have a version no. I can see but I assume it is also 7.1 Quote
raymac46 Posted November 19 Author Posted November 19 I also disabled 3D acceleration as that is an extra variable we don't really need in a VM. Quote
securitybreach Posted November 19 Posted November 19 Your issue is clearly with virtualbox not the distro. You must be missing something because I have ran arch vms for many years now with none of the issues that you have ran into. I have two Endeavor VMs running on virt-manager right now and one is over 4 years old with current updates. 1 Quote
raymac46 Posted November 20 Author Posted November 20 I agree the problem is with VirtualBox. That has never been in dispute. If I were running a Linux Host I would take a look into a different VM. But this is not possible given that I am hosting in Windows. That said I don't have trouble with Debian-based distros in VBox and never have had so there must be something about VBox that is unfriendly with Arch-based distros. We suspect it has to do with the video drivers and/or Guest Additions. If you have any suggestions as to how to make EndeavourOS as stable in VBox as it is on the rails I am all ears. 1 Quote
raymac46 Posted November 20 Author Posted November 20 I might add that this is all for intellectual curiosity since I already have two very stable Arch and Arch-based distros running on bare metal. Quote
securitybreach Posted November 20 Posted November 20 4 minutes ago, raymac46 said: If you have any suggestions as to how to make EndeavourOS as stable in VBox as it is on the rails I am all ears. I am not for sure really as its all pretty standard with no virtual hardware tweaks besides -vga std Quote
raymac46 Posted November 20 Author Posted November 20 Well I'll keep on experimenting. I think using the LTS kernel may help. I simplified the video as much as possible. Jim hasn't had any problems running with VMM in Linux and that is clearly the best option. 1 Quote
Hedon James Posted November 20 Posted November 20 IF you have an issue again, don't forget the link regarding modification of boot parameters. But that requires a GRUB boot. I know from experience that the wrong boot parameters or flags yield a black screen with no way out. Add the right flags and presto....a GUI! If you can modify boot flags and get it to boot once, it's easy enough to make that permanent. Just a reminder... 1 Quote
raymac46 Posted November 20 Author Posted November 20 Re: Link on boot parameters is that referring to spectre_v2=off? Quote
Hedon James Posted November 20 Posted November 20 1 hour ago, raymac46 said: Re: Link on boot parameters is that referring to spectre_v2=off? that sounds familiar. link posted earlier in this thread, discussing boot parameters. not sure it references your issue, because you're not even getting to GRUB screen. but if we can corrupt your system and still get to GRUB....maybe it does? I still stand on my statement that you have a 2-factor failure (or multi?). Your symptoms don't seem to describe any ONE failure, but 2 or more. MAYBE we've diagnosed one of them; but a diagnosis and a solution/remedy are 2 different things. I'll play along as long as you are interested (I'm curious too), but only so much I can do with a VM that continues to run. Happy to offer 3rd party perspective, research, and ideas. Maybe I'll even offer the wrong advice, which causes you to look in the right place and inadvertently find the fix? A win is a win, no matter how accidental! LOL! Quote
raymac46 Posted November 20 Author Posted November 20 (edited) I have added spectre_v2=off to the boot parameters, although I don't think that'll affect me since I'm running Intel CPU not AMD. However I did so. I would appreciate you following along as I feel two heads (maybe 3 if Josh continues to read this thread) are better than one. To summarize recent changes: Returned to Legacy /GRUB boot process Adjusted GRUB boot flags. Disabled 3D Video. Booting LTS kernel. I believe there is a Holy Host of issues standing round me with VirtualBox that one would not have with a more bare metal focused VM. There is the problem that VBox, the VBox enhancements, and the guest system can change over time with a high probability of regression. I am just grateful that at least one distro works great in VBox (Hello MX!) and that it's not a mission-critical situation where I *must run Linux as a guest on Windows. Yours is mission-critical, but at least you have a stable Linux host and VM, and Windows seems to run OK for you as a VM. Edited November 20 by raymac46 Quote
raymac46 Posted November 20 Author Posted November 20 I do believe that EndeavourOS is a great Arch-based distro when used properly. I think that using it in VBox is just forcing a square peg into a round hole. I haven't seen a lot about this issue on the EndeavourOS forum though so I wonder how many Windows VBox users are out there trying to get EOS to work and be stable. Quote
Hedon James Posted November 20 Posted November 20 (edited) I'm curious why you can't access TTY terminal in VBox. Graphics should be non-issue for that. VBox indicates key sequence for TTY is "host" key + F1 (i think "host" is windows key, can't remember). While your system is running, can you confirm GRUB is installed, and you have a valid grub.cfg file. I assume you do, because you confirmed your kernel boot options from GRUB screen. Let's see the grub.cfg file that we know works. And let's try that "host" + F1 key combo to see if we can invoke terminal. It would be nice to troubleshoot from within a TTY terminal when/if corruption occurs. We could change grub configs, update grade, install packages, start desktop managers, etc... And while I'm thinking about it, what IS the desktop manager in Endeavour. I'm going to guess SDDM with LXQT, but could also be LightDM. I had issues with SDDM on a customized Debian LXQT, because SDDM wasn't picking up the customized theme configuration, so it just hung on a black screen. If we knew what the default DM was, and could access a terminal, we could remove that DM and install the other. Just throwing out ideas as I think of them. EDIT: some quick CLI-fu confirms that Endeavour LXQT is using the SDDM login manager. In addition to potential for kernel corruption, we need to consider SDDM/theme corruption. Edited November 20 by Hedon James Quote
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