Desktop freeze?!

[Hedon James]

This is the first "real" issue I have experienced with AMD, and the first "real" issue with LXQT.  This feels like a double-layered problem, and I'm in the intersection.  Maybe not, but that's what it FEELS like.  And those are tough to troubleshoot...sometimes you have to be a little lucky and stumble onto the first solution, so the 2nd problem can be revealed and resolved.  I think that's where I'm at, so we'll see in time.

 

Can't say I'm "happy", but I can live with the VGA solution until a better one is revealed.  Your anology about the lame leading the blind is a good one...but it got results.  Reminds me of that Richard Pryor/Gene Wilder movie Hear No Evil, See No Evil.  About the comical mis-adventures of 2 buddies going through life, one is blind and the other is deaf; but working together, it all works out in the end.  LOL!

[raymac46]

When I was in college I saw a concert with Sonny Terry and Brownie McGhee. Sonny was blind and Brownie had polio as a kid so he was lame. That's how they came on stage. Lame leading the blind.

[Hedon James]

Update:  new HDMI/DP cable arrived, and problem is back.  I can rule out DP adaptors, and am back to configurations.  But before I start rowing in circles, I think I put out some bad information about hardware on these machines, in the heat of battle.  Since folks are trying to help me out based on what I tell them, let me clear up some misinformation.  Here are my affected machines, summary of experienced results, and comparisons:

 

Lenovo ThinkCentre m715q:  AMD Ryzen5 Pro 2400GE cpu with RavenRidge Radeon Vega/Mobile gpu that requires amdgpu graphics driver.  There are 3 graphics ports on this machine, and all are labled DP++ ports.  But closer inspection reveals that 1 of the ports is a different "color" behind the back plate, and I suspect has been swapped out.  So even though it's labled DP++, it MAY just be DP.  I was using this port for graphics, as it is the only port NOT inline with USB ports, so I assumed it was "primary".  I've since switched to one of the "stock" DP++ ports.  But it doesn't seem to matter, far as I can tell.

 

Lenovo ThinkCentre m910x:  Intel Core i7 6700T cpu with Intel HD Graphics 530 gpu that requires i915 graphics driver.  There are 3 graphics ports on this machine, with 2 ports labled DP++ and a third port "above" (in the same location where the replaced port is on the m715q) the inline USB/DP++ ports is a VGA port.   I have used the VGA/DP adaptor combination without issues, but using the VGA port directly causes funky issues with graphics....my tint2 is in the wrong location, my lxqt-panel is slightly misplaced, and some newly opened windows are without decorations (notably firefox and qterminal; possibly others, but not tested).  Restarting the WM fixes everything, until idle/sleep, which repeats the initial login placements.

 

AOC 27" 16:9 widescreen monitor:  capable of 1920x1080 resolution (which is the reason I bought this monitor 7+ years ago.  Rear ports include 2 HDMI and 1 recently discovered "recessed" VGA port. 

 

So possible connections with the Ryzen5 are (monitor port/computer port) VGA/DP and HDMI/DP.  In order of preference:

• HDMI/DP boots without issues, and LightDM greeter displays full 1920x1080 resolution, and login to LXQT DE displays and behaves perfectly while using.  When idle/sleep occurs, zombie spawns create runaway xclient connnections until 256 are reached, at which time NO NEW GUIs can be opened.  Already open GUIs (including terminal) work just fine; terminal will open new tabs in existing window, but no new windows of terminal will open.
• VGA/DP requires nomodeset to boot, which invokes the vesa driver, which behaves just fine; but no amdgpu graphics that I paid for. 

 

Possible connections with the Intel Core i7 are (monitor port/computer port) VGA/VGA, VGA/DP, HDMI/VGA, and HDMI/DP.  Let's start with HDMI/VGA...why bother when VGA computer port can't "upgrade" to the HDMI signal, when DP ports are available?  And I don't have the cables/connectors for that combination.  The remaining combinations, in order of preference:

• HDMI/DP boots without intervention to 1920x1080 GRUB, LightDM, and DE.  Graphics driver is i915 with HD 530 renderer.  However, tint2 is in wrong location; lxqt-panel is shifted; and qterminal and firefox launch without decorations.  Restarting WM fixes everything.  Idle/sleep doesn't reposition tint2 or lxqt-panel, and new instances of qterminal & firefox have their decorations, and no zombie xclient processes are spawned.
• VGA/DP requires GRUB flag nomodeset to boot, which invokes the vesa driver; but boots into 800x600 resolution, with no other resolutions available in monitor settings.  This is unacceptable.  At least windows are placed correctly.  Idle/sleep doesn't move tint2 or lxqt-panel, new windows (including firefox and qterminal) have their decorations, and no zombie xclient connections are spawned.  But the resolution makes this combination unacceptable.
• VGA/VGA boots without intervention to 1920x1080 desktop, and is using i915 driver and HD 530 renderer; but tint2 is in wrong place, lxtq-panel is shifted, and conky doesn't display at all.  Restarting WM fixes tint and lxqt-panel issues, but conky must be manually started.  Idle/sleep doesn't reposition tint2 or lxqt-panel, or launch new windows (firefox or qterminal) without decorations.  And it doesn't spawn zombie xclient connections.

 

Dell 15" 4:30 monitor:  capable of 1024x768 resolution.  rear ports include VGA output.  That's it....VGA only.

 

So possible connections with the Ryzen5 are VGA/DP only.  This presented no issues with use....and didn't require any GRUB flags to boot.  I didn't think to check drivers, due to excitement of fully working system without graphical issues.  But this monitor is too small for everyday use. 

 

Possible connections with the Intel Core i7 are VGA/VGA and VGA/DP. 

• VGA/VGA boots with no issues, but the DE presents with the same issues noted on the VGA/VGA connection to the 27" monitor.  Using the VGA port directly causes funky issues with graphics....my tint2 is in the wrong location, my lxqt-panel is slightly misplaced, and some newly opened windows are without decorations (notably firefox and qterminal; possibly others, but not tested).  Restarting the WM fixes everything, until idle/sleep, which repeats the initial login placements.  The graphics driver in use is the HD 530; perhaps using GRUB flag nomodeset will invoke vesa driver with no issues? 
• OTOH, using the VGA/DP connection fixes everything.  No issues whatsoever.  Graphical elements are where they should be and don't require WM restart.  Idle/sleep doesn't spawn zombie xclient connections.  A known GOOD combination, but that small screen 4:3 ratio is an issue for everyday use.

 

Summary:  so my only "good" combination with the Intel Core i7 is VGA/DP on the small 15" 4:3 monitor.  But that small 4:3 monitor is a deal-breaker for an everyday workhorse machine.  It's fine for an emergency backup, or for other limited, periodic uses, but not everyday.  There are no "good" combinations with the 27" 16:9 monitor.

 

I have no "good" combinations with the Ryzen5, but the combinations closest to being "good" are the Ryzen VGA/DP on the small 15" 4:3 monitor; and the VGA/DP on the large 27" 16:9 monitor.  Both combinations end up with the vesa driver, rather than the preferred amdgpu driver.  But at least the vesa driver behaves and seems stable during my experiments.  Unfortunately, that small 4:3 monitor is a deal-breaker (for reasons enumerated above), so it's gotta be the large 16:9 monitor for me.  I'd really prefer that amdgpu driver, but something isn't playing nice on my system.

 

So my choices for stability are the Intel Core i7 with VGA/DP on the small 15" 4:3 monitor, OR the Ryzen5 with VGA/DP on the large 27" 16:9 monitor, but using vesa driver due to required nomodeset GRUB flag.

 

I've been spoiled by the 27" monster, so this decision gets made FOR me, instead of BY me.  I've also noticed the Ryzen5 machine just "feels" snappier and more responsive.  No testing, no benchmarks, nothing to back that up other than how it "feels."  Which is why I've moved the Ryzen back to the 27" with a VGA/DP connection.  I'll add nomodeset permanently to GRUB parameters for booting, and hope to remember to edit it out when testing out HDMI/DP suggested fixes.  A PITA, but certainly do-able.  .  This is my "stable band aid" solution.  I can live with that until a REAL solution is found. 

 

But make no mistake, I'd prefer the pull potential of HDMI/DP connection and amdgpu driver.  But I'm at the mercy of developers for this one....I've done all I can do, and I'm out of ideas.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Hedon James

[raymac46]

A lot to unpack here. I think aside from proof of concept, the Dell 15 inch is a non starter. So I'll be interested in the results with the 27 inch monitor on the Intel machine. I am frankly not surprised that neither the Intel or Ryzen drivers work that great with VGA graphics since I am pretty sure the chip makers do not support it natively anymore - at least in Windows.

I am not sure if you've tried HDMI to DP on Intel yet. Maybe I'm missing something. If both machines are giving you zombie Xclients with HDMI/DP then I think it probably has more to do with Linux than hardware. But I've been out to lunch a number of times in this thread.

Be sure you check any stable system with inxi -G. If you end up in VESAland that is a good sign that the hardware graphics are not working. You may be stable but hobbled.

 

 

[Hedon James]

5 minutes ago, raymac46 said:

A lot to unpack here. I think aside from proof of concept, the Dell 15 inch is a non starter. So I'll be interested in the results with the 27 inch monitor on the Intel machine. I am frankly not surprised that neither the Intel or Ryzen drivers work that great with VGA graphics since I am pretty sure the chip makers do not support it natively anymore - at least in Windows.

I am not sure if you've tried HDMI to DP on Intel yet. Maybe I'm missing something. If both machines are giving you zombie Xclients with HDMI/DP then I think it probably has more to do with Linux than hardware. But I've been out to lunch a number of times in this thread.

Be sure you check any stable system with inxi -G. If you end up in VESAland that is a good sign that the hardware graphics are not working. You may be stable but hobbled.

 

 

I've got the Intel results posted in my UPDATE right before your quoted post.  Yeah....there's a lot to unpack there, and you're entitled to eat lunch now and then.  LOL!

 

I did check the inxi results for each combination posted, reported above.  Once you have a chance to digest all that, let me know if you have any thoughts.  That post is also for me, in addition to everyone else, so I can remember what I did and the results of each.  FWIW...

[raymac46]

All of this would get me to run screaming from LXQt or for that matter any lightweight Window Manager and head squarely for GTK3 with Xfce. Did you try using XFWM4 as your window manager just to see if that worked in your chosen hardware which I assume is 27 inch monitor connected va HDMI/DP++ to the Ryzen mini desktop? How does Linux Mint Xfce work with that combo?

That hardware combo should in theory work with no issues whatsoever and use the proper graphics built in, not a bunch of software kludge graphics which are used when you can't load a proper driver.

I know you love tinkering with your own custom remix, but sometimes just using Linux Mint is the way to go.

I don't think any VGA connection on the monitor is going to work that great because the CPUs are just too new to support VGA. I still am unsure that VGA/DP on the small monitor connected to Intel i7 is really using the Intel graphics. But who knows?

There are so many interactions here. Do you have a friend who might be able to lend you a decent 24 inch monitor of a different make? If I lived close I have 3 you could try LOL.

What happens if you forget about suspend entirely and just shutdown/restart when needed? I never use suspend for anything.

Send this thread to the LXQt devs for sure.

This is just stream of consciouness stuff as I am holding on by my fingernails right now. FWIW I have desktops connected to monitors DVI/DVI, HDMI/HDMI but no DP at all. All Discrete cards. Grateful.

Edited November 3, 2023 by raymac46

[Hedon James]

19 hours ago, raymac46 said:

All of this would get me to run screaming from LXQt or for that matter any lightweight Window Manager and head squarely for GTK3 with Xfce. Did you try using XFWM4 as your window manager just to see if that worked in your chosen hardware which I assume is 27 inch monitor connected va HDMI/DP++ to the Ryzen mini desktop? How does Linux Mint Xfce work with that combo?

That hardware combo should in theory work with no issues whatsoever and use the proper graphics built in, not a bunch of software kludge graphics which are used when you can't load a proper driver.

I know you love tinkering with your own custom remix, but sometimes just using Linux Mint is the way to go.

I don't think any VGA connection on the monitor is going to work that great because the CPUs are just too new to support VGA. I still am unsure that VGA/DP on the small monitor connected to Intel i7 is really using the Intel graphics. But who knows?

There are so many interactions here. Do you have a friend who might be able to lend you a decent 24 inch monitor of a different make? If I lived close I have 3 you could try LOL.

What happens if you forget about suspend entirely and just shutdown/restart when needed? I never use suspend for anything.

Send this thread to the LXQt devs for sure.

This is just stream of consciouness stuff as I am holding on by my fingernails right now. FWIW I have desktops connected to monitors DVI/DVI, HDMI/HDMI but no DP at all. All Discrete cards. Grateful.

Yeah, this hardware combo SHOULD just work.  I'm not convinced it's LXQT though.  I tried an OpenSUSE LXQT LiveMedia, and the issue didn't exist; which made me think "a Debian issue" is in play.  But then I tried DebianLXDE Live, with no issues.  Then I remembered...my "base" was Spiral Linux (Debian with non-free before Debian embraced non-free).  I had issues getting Spiral remastered with PenguinsEggs (and the developer did too....but only the LXQT version).  So maybe it's the combination of Debian, LXQT, and something non-free?

 

I could continue to test different distros with LXQT desktops (focusing on Debian and Spiral specifically; expanding to Arch family and RPM family if needed) to see if the bug follows LXQT across desktops (all using version 1.2, of course).  I could continue to test different flavors of Spiral and Debian desktops, to see if the bug is specific to LXQT, or present in the entire spectrum of the mother distro.  And yet another variable in play is possibly the session manager....because it only happens from idle/sleep.  This is a desktop, so I don't do suspend/hibernate.  I just blank the screen after periods of idle activity.  LXQT (and other QT-based desktops) recommend SDDM for the display manager.  Spiral (and MAYBE Debian?) use LightDM.  In theory, shouldn't be a problem....LightDM is supposedly compatible with ALL desktop environments.  In reality....who knows.  Yet another layer of variables to consider.

 

Probably the best way to approach this, as a bug squasher, is to load up a minimal Debian Fluxbox and monitor for the issue.  Keep adding components until the bug is introduced and THAT will be the culprit.  I don't have that kind of time.  I've got a job to do, and a working configuration, even if it's less than ideal.  I'm kind of disappointed in the LXQT devs.  I filed a bug report.  It was immediately closed as a "bug" and moved to "discussion".  An LXQT dev believed it was an environment setting and asked me to provide output of:

env | grep -i display

I provided them that information:

XDG_SESSION_PATH=/org/freedesktop/DisplayManager/Session0
XDG_SEAT_PATH=/org/freedesktop/DisplayManager/Seat0
DISPLAY=:0

And haven't heard back from them yet.  At this point, it's a discussion with myself, providing updates of what I've done that doesn't work.  A 2nd dev chimed in that he'd like to help, but this area of troubleshooting was outside his realm of knowledge.  Bummer, but fair enough...  But it sure is disappointing to file a bug report and have it closed so quickly, to be converted to a "discussion", where it appears that I'm discussing it with myself.  In all my troubleshooting, the threads I read have a common thread...."read the logs" and "something in the logs will point to the issue".  But WHAT logs?  I've found some logs on my system regarding xsessions and xsession erros, but I can't read 'em.  Not sure what they say, let alone to pick out a "warning" from an "error".  I've gotten more help HERE at BATL, FWIW!  Impressed with BATL efforts....not so much with LXQT efforts....

 

Ray, your comments about Mint aren't without merit, but grounded in your own positive experience.  To make a LONG story short....I don't really ENJOY tinkering with my desktops.  It just so happens that my preferences almost always are off the beaten path.  I left Windows 15 years ago because I got frustrated with MS pushing THEIR WAY down my throat.  I discovered Linux by accident....at a rock show in a band talking to a drummer and a conversation of "so what do you do for a LIVING, to pay the bills?" was answered with "I work in IT for (a major insurance company)".  I responded with "that must suck....I'm always fighting with Windows...wish I didn't have to" when he just smiled and responded "you don't have to....I use Linux" and you can figure out the rest of THAT conversation.  Fast forward to today....after all kinds of tinkering over the years, I've learned what I like and what I prefer.  And once I get it THAT way, I want to leave it alone and just enjoy that experience.

 

I like simple systems; KDE is a wonderful desktop, but they have options for their options; and Gnome seems to keep changing their paradigms and MOs.  I'll stick with simple.  I've learned I like LIGHTWEIGHT systems, such as WM only environments.  Based on experiences, I like Openbox, Fluxbox, and PekWM.  It turns out that the right-click or "ctrl-m" root menus are a godsend for me.  I'd use jgmenu, but all my preferred WMs do it better OOTB.  And at this point, TABBED WINDOWS are a must have for me.  That is a real speed bump preventing migration to anything else.  There are very few WMs with tabbed windows features.  Now we're down to Fluxbox, PekWM, and possibly WindowMaker and maybe 1 or 2 others.  That's it.  None of those are mainstream defaults on any distros.  I've learned that Openbox and Kwin USED to have tabbed windows, but dropped the feature.  Don't know why, but if they'd re-implement that feature, I'd reconsider them.  Only Fluxbox has any kind of presence/traction as alternative options on some distros....MX-Flux is a pretty nice implementation with some polish and attention to the experience.  But I also prefer systemd.  I just do.  I can "make do" with other options, but they're not ideal for me.  And wasn't that one of the main selling points of Linux?  YOUR desktop, the way YOU want it?  I could have "lived with" Windows, with a lot less effort.

 

When I overlay all my preferences, there is NOTHING available OOTB.  I have to roll my own.  Which I'm perfectly capable of doing, and willing to do if it can be remastered.  I also like homogeneity across my network (for troubleshooting purposes, no less!) and I've got 9 machines waiting for installation/upgrade; which puts me in LTS territory....no rolling releases for me.  I don't enjoy it....I'm just willing to put in the extra effort NOW, in hopes that it saves more effort later on.  It's a time investment.  Still a PITA though...  And when something like THIS happens, I question whether it was a good investment.  But at this point, it's a sunk cost....gotta keep moving forward.  Wayland is coming, and NONE of my preferred WMs are Wayland compatible at this time.  Considering that tabbed windows are the thing that tips the scales for me, I might have to work out a whole new paradigm on the computer.  Maybe a tiling WM?  Can't imagine it would work for me, but maybe I'll have to load up a VM with i3 or Sway (Wayland compatible?!) to contemplate that options?  It could get rougher for me before it gets better....

[Hedon James]

And yet another option might be a Chromebox desktop with ChromeOS Flex and built-in Linux VM?  I've got a Chromebook laptop and that has become the best laptop I've ever used.  The screen is a little small for everyday use, but it's been wonderful!  I really see ChromeOS  making strong moves, and I think there's a real future there.

[raymac46]

It really amazes me that you and I can be so sympatico when we have such different ways of working.

I have been a Windows user since 1991 and I still use it on new hardware. It's only when I get a junker that ran Windows 7 or XP that I reach for Linux. My newest Linux machine is a Broadwell laptop.

I am not a huge Linux Mint fan but it just works for family. I would not use it for myself alone.

And I really like LXQt but I have a toxic dislike for Window Managers. I am a lousy typist and although I can use the terminal I don't want to spend all my time there. So I use XFWM4 with LXQt.

GNOME and Debian is how I roll if I can.

I never screen blank or screen lock or suspend.

Edited November 4, 2023 by raymac46

[raymac46]

If you get time could you install Chrome OS Flex on the Intel machine and then put on Linux and your VM?

And honestly you need a better backup Monitor. Maybe there will be a decent Black Friday sale. Analog video is really usesless these days.

 

https://shorturl.at/ouxET

 

A really great brand and should be a lot cheaper in the US. Has DP native connection.

Edited November 4, 2023 by raymac46

[raymac46]

EndeavourOS has a nice i3 version if you want to spin that up in a VM. There is also Regolith but I don't know much about it.

Edited November 4, 2023 by raymac46

[Hedon James]

8 hours ago, raymac46 said:

It really amazes me that you and I can be so sympatico when we have such different ways of working.

I have been a Windows user since 1991 and I still use it on new hardware. It's only when I get a junker that ran Windows 7 or XP that I reach for Linux. My newest Linux machine is a Broadwell laptop.

I am not a huge Linux Mint fan but it just works for family. I would not use it for myself alone.

And I really like LXQt but I have a toxic dislike for Window Managers. I am a lousy typist and although I can use the terminal I don't want to spend all my time there. So I use XFWM4 with LXQt.

GNOME and Debian is how I roll if I can.

I never screen blank or screen lock or suspend.

Agreed on that first part.  We seem to approach issues from 180 opposite angles, and yet somehow arrive at very similar conclusions?!

 

One of the things I like about LXQT is that it is "WM-agnostic"....modular design allows you to the WM you prefer, pull it up in the session manager, and that's your WM until you tell it otherwise.  Like Kwin?  Install it, pull down the menu, select it, and reboot.  Your WM is now Kwin until you purposefully change it.  Prefer XFWM?  Same procedure!  Fluxbox, Openbox, or something else....same procedure.  Easiest way to change WMs I have EVER seen.  Love that feature!  If it wasn't for that, I'd be running a WM environment, and invoking lxqt-panels for "skins", to achieve the same result.  (and MAY in fact be another way to troubleshoot my LXQT issue?).

 

Appreciate the link for the monitor too....I actually like that one!  First I need to determine if a new monitor even helps.  My wife just bought a 24" LG with HDMI and DP ports...I'll hook up to that and see what happens.  If a different monitor allows me to use the amdgpu driver without issue, perhaps a new monitor is in the cards for me?  I've had this one for 7-8 years now, and NEVER had an issue until now.  AOC is a popular brand, so I can't imagine it's junk....but maybe there's something in the AOC config that newer software (or newer Lenovo hardware?) just doesn't like, for whatever reason.  If there's one thing I learned EARLY in my linux journey, it's that HARDWARE MATTERS!  The wrong hardware can make you yearn for the good old days of Windows frustrations; but the right hardware is practically invisible...it just DOES WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO, and gets out of the way.

 

That old VGA monitor isn't really a backup...it belongs to an old Dell 2-core computer with Windows XP, with some proprietary software and files that I can't use anywhere else but on THAT machine.  I just stole the monitor for my testing purposes.  I do have a backup monitor...an older AOC with VGA and DVI connectors, but that is connected to my "old" machine during my migration.  Once I verify the "new" machine is fully operational, with all programs functioning properly with HW, and all Data synchronized, that monitor will be returned to the closet.  But I really should have a backup monitor with HDMI/DP ports.  Point well taken...

[raymac46]

Well if you can sweet-talk your wife into a quick test with her monitor (DP/DP) that would certainly be a big piece of the puzzle. I also like the idea of trying a Fluxbox based install without LXQt. But I understand your need to make a living. A bit different for me as I'm too old to do anything but dabble these days.

I have been looking into the concept of tabbed windows and I don't thnk it's a must have for me. Generally I run one app at a time full-screen. Even browser tabs are not much in my viewfinder. I have tiled a couple of windows to compare on-line and off-line bank balances but that is about it. My wife still wants to have a checkbook balancer that isn't part of our banking app. Don't ask why.

[abarbarian]

Blimey this is one heck of a tale. I hope you find a solution.

 

On 10/28/2023 at 5:30 PM, Hedon James said:

In the meantime, I've probably spent 10-14 man hours trying to hunt down and remedy this issue, and still no closer (it seems)

 

An even longer since that was a post from a week ago.

 

You could have researched installing Arch and Window Maker in probably a tenth of that time.

[Hedon James]

21 minutes ago, abarbarian said:

Blimey this is one heck of a tale. I hope you find a solution.

 

 

An even longer since that was a post from a week ago.

 

You could have researched installing Arch and Window Maker in probably a tenth of that time.

I'll take that as a compliment, from the person I think is probably the champion bug squasher at BATL?!

[raymac46]

I think one of the great things about BATL is that we recognize every member's right to customize (and bork) their system as they see fit, yet we still help them out when they do. 

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Bork! Bork! Bork!

 

[Hedon James]

21 hours ago, raymac46 said:

Well if you can sweet-talk your wife into a quick test with her monitor (DP/DP) that would certainly be a big piece of the puzzle. I also like the idea of trying a Fluxbox based install without LXQt. But I understand your need to make a living. A bit different for me as I'm too old to do anything but dabble these days.

I have been looking into the concept of tabbed windows and I don't thnk it's a must have for me. Generally I run one app at a time full-screen. Even browser tabs are not much in my viewfinder. I have tiled a couple of windows to compare on-line and off-line bank balances but that is about it. My wife still wants to have a checkbook balancer that isn't part of our banking app. Don't ask why.

That was actually helpful info also Ray!

 

I didn't want to disconnect my wife's newly setup system (that's what started this whole tale of woe....she wanted to upgrade her old Lenovo AIO with dual core chip(!!), and I like her new machine enough that I figured I'll get one for me also, LOL), so purchased a 25' HDMI cable to just extend it across the room without disconnecting EVERYTHING.  Her new monitor, that she found on sale during Amazon Days is an LG 24" with DP, HDMI, and VGA connectors.  Link here:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093R6C6B4?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1

 

Performed my usual startup, and lxqt-panel was offset and tint2 was in wrong place, but restarted Fluxbox and everything reset where it was supposed to me.  Opened a terminal and verified with inxi -G that amdgpu driver was in use, and then typed xrestop to watch xclient connections.  Walked away to let it idle/sleep and went outside for yardwork for 2+ hours.  Plenty of time for zombie spawns to use up my xclient connections and prevent new launches of GUI applications.  But when I came back to check on it, the xclients were holding steady!  For good measure, I re-booted and repeated the same process.  Interestingly enough, tint2 and lxqt-panel were both located where they were supposed to be; it seems the lxqt-session "recalls" the prior session when placing things on desktop.  The re-boot simply placed things where they were located on prior boot.  Repeated the amdgpu driver check and the xrestop monitoring of xclient connections, with same result.  My first GOOD non-VGA connection with this machine to a monitor, using amdgpu driver!  So the GOOD series looks like this:  m715q Lenovo>DP++ port>DP adaptor on 25' HDMI cable>HDMI port on LG Monitor. 

 

The only variables to change in that chain are the cable and the monitor.  So I pulled the cable from my wife's monitor and plugged into MY monitor and rebooted.  The xclient connection issue returned.  So I'd say the monitor is my issue.  There is SOMETHING about that 7-8 year old monitor that my 5-6 year old refurbed Lenovo doesn't like.  I suspect it probably has something to do with the lack of DP connection on that monitor.  The LG has a DP connection, and HDMI, and a VGA/D-SUB connection; but the presence of a DP connection indicates that DP protocols were contemplated on that monitor.  My 27" AOC only has 2 HDMI and 1 VGA connection.  I'm guessing it has no awareness of DP protocols, and therefore couldn't address potential DP considerations in either of the HDMI ports.  But that's just my broad brush theory.  I don't know enough about these things to say with any certainty.  What do you think Ray?

 

My current monitor is a 27" AOC E2752S.  Kind of hard to find specs online, because it looks like newer versions are the E2752SHE, but here's a refurb dealer with specs tab about halfway down the page:

https://www.pcliquidations.com/p41728-aoc-e2752s-27-led

Do you see ANYTHING in those specs that make you say "A-HA!", or should I just chalk it up to incompatible hardware (likely a DP++ related issue?).  While this monitor isn't the latest & greatest, it's only 7-8 years old, and it WAS pretty high-end at the time of purchase.  It's performed GREAT for me the entire time I've had it, until now.  I can't believe it's a kernel regression for something that age, so all I can think of is "unaware and incompatible with DP++ connections"; which is ALL I have on this machine.

 

Looks like I'm purchasing a new monitor!  at this point, $100 to solve the problem and move on seems like the least expensive route to go. if I spend another hour troubleshooting this thing....and hour that I should have been working(!)...the monitor would have been cheaper!  I really liked that Benq monitor you sent, but my wife's LG has been CONFIRMED to be a good connection, so I'll be ordering that as soon as I finish this post.

 

Maybe someday, we'll figure out what Debian, or LXQT, or Lenovo, or DP++, or LightDM doesn't like about this AOC monitor, but for now....I'm done.  LG on the way, and amdgpu graphics invoked, with ability to downshift to VGA and vesa.  I like options...

Edited November 5, 2023 by Hedon James

[raymac46]

Don't see anything in the specs for the old monitor that would jump out at me. Just one thing to recommend. Get a true DP to DP cable wth your new monitor. That may fix the last issue of shifting tint2 and lxqt-panel and it is the last piece of the puzzle. No adaptors to get in the way either.

BTW I also have an LG monitor which I also think has great quality. No DP on it but I can always manage to get by with HDMI on my discrete graphics cards.

Edit: I missed that it's working fine with the adapter now after a reboot and LXQt remenbering where tint2 and lxpanel should be. You are good to go either way.

Edited November 5, 2023 by raymac46

[raymac46]

https://shorturl.at/aDFNZ

 

This may be of interest. The fact that there are different versions of both HDMI and DP may also be a factor. Glad you got it fixed finally.

[Hedon James]

14 hours ago, raymac46 said:

https://shorturl.at/aDFNZ

 

This may be of interest. The fact that there are different versions of both HDMI and DP may also be a factor. Glad you got it fixed finally.

I wouldn't say it's "fixed"....at least not yet.  I believe i have it "diagnosed".  It's "fixed" when i hook up the new hardware and it runs for a few days with NO issues whatsoever.  And I did order the DP/DP cable.  1.5' foot (smallest I could find) to minimize the "cable coil", as I'm "monitor mounting" on rear of monitor.  If everything works as expected, I'll be a VERY happy man, because I'll be as future proof, and recovery-enabled as I've EVER been with this machine as my primary.  I'll post the rundown once I'm confident I'm confirming a 100% capably enabled system, LOL!

[raymac46]

Some more philosophical (not data based) ramblings.

Maybe the takeaway here is that any video connection should be at the highest possible level supported by both source and display. That is if both pieces support DP, go that way.

I wonder if AMD features like Freesync and the ever funky AMD linux driver might be at fault here. The new monitor will support this stuff better not to mention having DP capability.

I'm amazed that I was able to help you a bit, given that I don't have a single DP/DP connection or AMD linux machine new enough to use the amdgpu driver. I was probably more of a sounding board as you worked your way through it all.

Anyway I am looking forward to a final report on this for purposes of documentation.

Edited November 6, 2023 by raymac46

[Hedon James]

Alright....new monitor showed up today, and I was a bit apprehensive to hook it up; what with the old AOC working with VGA/DP++ connection and GRUB flags to invoke vesa graphics and all that.  But it was working!

 

So I went ahead and disconnected the old monitor, and slid the new one in its place, but hooked up with DP connections on both ends, and booted up with fingers crossed.  Booted straight to login screen with no issues (side note....I was sorta like the manual intervention of "nomodeset" on the VGA boot, because without that, it booted to black screen.  A "security feature" against unauthorized use, IMO!).  Logged in and presented with glorious 1920x1080 resolution, but with tint2 in wrong place and lxqt-panel slightly off.  Not unexpected.  Restarted WM and everything snapped to place.  Rebooted for good measure, and the desktop loaded up EXACTLY as it should be!  Yay!

 

But I don't 100% trust everything yet, so I opened a terminal and am monitoring xclient connections just to be sure.  So far, so good.  Side note....monitoring xrestop indicated number of xclient connections, but it also monitors "xerrors".  Not exactly sure what xerrors are being monitored, but note that the new monitor indicates a big fat "0" on xerrors, which is a NEW experience.  BONUS!

 

So what's the take from all this?  Despite the impressive progress with Linux, hardware, and drivers in the past 15 years that I've been a Linux user.....you can't be complacent....hardware still matters!  The wrong hardware will require extensive troubleshooting, trial & error, manual configuration, and potential workarounds.  The right hardware....just WORKS!  Amen!

 

I'll post my new machine specs in Ray's hardware thread...

[raymac46]

Looks like you finally got to the root cause or at least you know enough now to get things set up to your satisfaction.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I think we'll always have these sorts of issues with Linux where we use graphics protocols from the 1980s and are faced with different connection interfaces and kernel modules. Your PC was not bleeding edge but it's certainly more contemporary than my Linux beasts. I have more issues with wifi than video but it's the same sort of problem.

[Hedon James]

5 minutes ago, raymac46 said:

Looks like you finally got to the root cause or at least you know enough now to get things set up to your satisfaction.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I think we'll always have these sorts of issues with Linux where we use graphics protocols from the 1980s and are faced with different connection interfaces and kernel modules. Your PC was not bleeding edge but it's certainly more contemporary than my Linux beasts. I have more issues with wifi than video but it's the same sort of problem.

No doubt.

 

But I tell ya Ray....the monitor situation is a REAL head-scratcher for me.  I've had that monitor hooked up via HDMI to 2 different computers since about 2016.  The first runnning Lubuntu 16.04 with LXDE, the 2nd running Debian 10 with LXQT 0.14.  NEITHER OS or DE has had ANY issues whatsoever with that monitor, using HDMI connections.  With that being said, it makes NO SENSE that THIS version of Debian, with THIS version of LXQT has issues.  The only OBVIOUS variable to change is the DP++ monitor ports.  I've never used DP before....didn't even know what it was until I got this machine.  Of course, software regressions are possible, but I think somewhat unlikely for monitor hardware.  If it was too old, I'd believe a deprecation of legacy code, if that's what it was.  But not for a 7 year old monitor with HDMI capability.  In fact, regressing to the VGA connection is the only thing that worked for that monitor, with this hardware and this software.

 

Between software issues and hardware issues, I'd place my bets on those DP++ ports being the introduced variable that caused the issues.  Because purchasing a new monitor with DP connections, and connecting with DP cable, solves the issue.  It's the only theory I can conjure that has ANY traction whatsoever.

 

No worries....I'm moving that 27" screen to my music studio monitor, so I can see my DAW across the room while tracking drums.  My music buddies are gonna LOVE it too!  LOL!

[raymac46]

Well...I bet your old machines did not have a contemporary AMD graphics solution with the amdgpu driver. That may have something to do with it. If I recall correctly the Intel Skylake machine gave some of the tint2 / lxpanel issues but we now know that can be fixed with a WM restart/reboot. But I guarantee you if I ever get a video DP connection I'll make sure I have a DP capable monitor and cable.

[Hedon James]

14 minutes ago, raymac46 said:

Well...I bet your old machines did not have a contemporary AMD graphics solution with the amdgpu driver. That may have something to do with it. If I recall correctly the Intel Skylake machine gave some of the tint2 / lxpanel issues but we now know that can be fixed with a WM restart/reboot. But I guarantee you if I ever get a video DP connection I'll make sure I have a DP capable monitor and cable.

^ that seems to be of primary importance?! 

[Hedon James]

alrighty then....been running with the new monitor for 24 hours now, with NO NEW ZOMBIE xclient connections!  YAY!

 

But I have noticed an accumulation of "xerrors"...I'm up to 168 now.  That's about 7 per hour.  But in all fairness, I don't know if that's "abnormal" or not.  I don't know if these "xerrors" are anything to be concerned about, or simple "warning" errors, or even just "informational" errors.  Can't find much on google about xrestop output, or those xerrors.

 

As a matter of comparison, I ran xrestop on the old machine before I shut it down and repurpose the old beast.  While the xclient connections are steady (as expected), I note that xerrors are accumulating on that device also.  Inasmuch as I have NEVER had ANY issues whatsoever with the display on that machine, I can only conclude that xerrors are typical, common, and simply informational in nature.  The certainly haven't been critical over the years.  I guess it's similar to the warnings when running a program from the command line, where warnings flash by in the terminal, but the program runs just fine (business as usual) despite the warnings.  I'm guessing xerrors are the same thing...."warnings", but not "critical".

 

Everything is working just wine, so I'm not inclined to troubleshoot a damn thing.  But if anyone knows anything about xerrors, or knows how to read the output columns in the xrestop output, I'd be happy to receive that education.  FWIW...

[raymac46]

I think they are just a log of "errors" between apps and X - if the video is working OK, why worry?. Also you should be able to reset the log file by logging out and logging back in, restarting X. Unless you have a huge xerrors file that is eating up your disk space I wouldn't worry about it much.

 

https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-newbie-8/what-is-~-xsession-errors-file-868518/

Edited November 9, 2023 by raymac46

[raymac46]

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/10222449/what-is-xsession-errors

Looks as if some of the "xerrors" are just command line stuff the display manager dumps into ~/.xsession-errors. I was checking mine and all I can see is startup info.