securitybreach Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Thanks for the compliment. Can you post a link to the post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted February 8, 2017 Author Share Posted February 8, 2017 Sure, here you go: https://plus.google.com/u/0/101991488473207364060/posts/JkLuqwGtxW1?cfem=1 I know you're a mod over there too, but I don't want to get anyone in trouble over this. My comments were meant in the spirit of 2 buddies drinking a beer, where I let you know that I followed through with your advice, but it just didn't work out for me like I hoped. No one has been nasty, or smart-mouthed; I'm just a little disappointed in their answers. If they're onto something, let me know...perhaps I'm the dense one?! But I just don't see the connection between my question and their answers. I don't want to sound ungrateful when I must rely on others to provide an answer, but it seems they're just answering a question they imagined I asked, instead of the one I asked. I'd like to save the complaint, or the "bite back", for a time when someone is truly rude and has earned it. I think this is more a case of people wanting to be helpful...thinking they're being helpful....but not being helpful. Bummer...that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 8, 2017 Share Posted February 8, 2017 Ah yes, I have been recovering from a long night last night so I have been a bit out of it mentally today. BTW I am the creator and owner of the Community, not just a mod. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Thank you for your post on Google+ site. Not sure I could've been so eloquent and succinct at the same time, but that was the PERFECT post to redirect the discussion back on track. We'll see if anyone has anything to add to the PROGRESS of that track, but hopefully that will tamp down the "do a REAL installation" discussions. THANK YOU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Not a problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Copy G+ posting here, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 ??? Not sure what you're asking. G+ posting linked in post #62 above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Ah... didn't see that link above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted February 11, 2017 Author Share Posted February 11, 2017 Hey SB (and anyone else following this thread with box of popcorn?!), I got a bit of resolution with respect to Manjaro/Arch implementation of LXDE/Fluxbox issues. Posted a bug report on the Fluxbox sourceforge site and was informed by a developer that Fluxbox has never implemented the "--replace" flag in their code. He further elaborated that Openbox and PekWM both DO recognize the "--replace" flag and offered to make my "bug report" a "feature request", but with no promises it would be implemented. As for an explanation to why the "--replace" flag works in Ubuntu distros (possibly the entire Debian family, but I've not tested this), he speculates that Ubuntu/Debian has patched fluxbox code for this feature; but he's unaware of it, and reasserts that a vanilla package, such as Arch would provide, would NOT respect the "--replace" flag suggested in the Arch Wiki. Based on this information, it appears the Archi Wiki information is the bug(?) to be addressed. It should probably be changed to reflect that fluxbox doesn't implement the "--replace" feature as Openbox, PekWM (and probably other) window managers in vanilla packages supplied by Arch; but that other distros may supply their own patched versions of fluxbox that implement the "--replace" feature. The REAL resolution came from another user who pointed out that vanilla LXDE package in Arch allows you to change the default window manager from "openbox-lxde" to "fluxbox" to accomplish the same thing (in fact, more elegantly, IMO!). While I tested this and confirmed it works PERFECTLY in my Arch and Manjaro VMs, this DOES NOT WORK in Lubuntu, as changing the window manager in the LXsession settings causes issues with the number of workspaces, which has weird effects on Tint2 workspaces. THIS is the exact behavior that lead me to discover the "wm --replace" method in the Arch Wiki for LXDE. Isn't it ironic that the method supplied by the Arch Wiki does NOT work with fluxbox in Arch distros, but does work in Ubuntu distros; and the method that does NOT work in Lubuntu/Ubuntu-LXDE DOES work in Arch-LXDE? Considering my previous failures implementing this in Lubuntu, I NEVER would've thought to try this in Arch. But someone else did....and it's exactly what I'm looking for! Now if we can just get those fluxbox developers to implement the "--replace" flag to achieve feature-parity with Openbox & PekWM. They are so similar to each other, with mostly aesthetic differences and minor feature variations and config file syntax (html for Openbox; plain language for Fluxbox; "C-style" syntax for PekWM), I would think developers would want to make the entry barrier for usage as low as possible. If I was interested in giving fluxbox a whirl, but I ran into these issues with the "fluxbox --replace" fiasco, I would've just said "meh...whatever...not for me" and moved along. I would've missed out on probably the BEST window manager (for me, at least) because I couldn't even try it out using the method that I was told I could "try" before making a permanent commitment. The usual Linux paradigm...programmers create awesome software, but the documentation and marketing hamstring their product. I did what I could...I made them aware. If they choose not to follow through, at least I got "mine". I'm not a programmer, so I can't fix it for them. I can only tell others what the fix..."the workaround"...was. So here I am telling... I'll post something on your G+ page too, and if I ever get a resolution in the form of implementation of the "--replace" flag in fluxbox, I'll let you know. But for now, I got what I came for, so it's back to my Manjaro & Arch VMs to port my MimeticDE configurations to each, and see how each performs over time! Thanks for your help SB! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 @HJ I just finished reading your post and I thought for a minute I was looking at a replay of "Urban Cowboy" (1980.) Unbelievable, but that's Linux for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 I'll post something on your G+ page too, and if I ever get a resolution in the form of implementation of the "--replace" flag in fluxbox, I'll let you know. But for now, I got what I came for, so it's back to my Manjaro & Arch VMs to port my MimeticDE configurations to each, and see how each performs over time! Thanks for your help SB! Sorry I was at my side job (on saturdays) but I am glad that you did get somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Arch seems like a good fit for me. But I have concerns about being "beginner friendly" and the elitism I see in Arch forums. Manjaro seems ideal. Gentoo is an option, but I'm not a masochist. Goes against my "set it and forget it" way of doing things. I remember the days of using Mandriva 6.1 then 7.2 from there you had to pay for mandriva, so i stopped using it ... I also remembered Bruno bugging me to use rpm distro's ... I always thought that rpm distros were evil because if there was a way to crash them i would find the way lol ... But I am glad you like Manjaro ... As for Arch it's an amazing distro i can't recommend it enough, I used to be a slacker and tried Arch and loved it!!! ... the Arch family is great always helping one another and then of course you have SB here the guru of Arch i am sure he and Eric forgot more things about Linux then we will ever learn... I also think they are doing a fabulous job here Bruno would be really proud!!! I think that .deb distros are awesome i started with debian 2.1 not sure what year that was thou ... now if I could make a suggestion since you brought Gentoo. Try LFS you might like it.. As a matter of fact there is version 8 If i can install it anyone can, just take your time and don't rush and you will do well... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saturnian Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 That is odd about the Fluxbox developer claiming that it never worked. Yeah, and for what it's worth, if you look at man fluxbox, the --replace switch isn't listed. The Openbox manpage lists it, though: https://linux.die.net/man/1/fluxbox https://linux.die.net/man/1/openbox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 If it were anyone else, I would ask if Hedon was remembering correctly that it worked on fluxbox... Very strange one, with the developer and such...like the Twilight Zone... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Thanks for the kind words Steel, it means a lot I actually started on Mandrake but I only used it for a week or so before installing and setting up Slackware (with Bruno's help of course). I ran it for a long while until I found Archlinux and at the time, I thought of it as Slackware with a package manager and newer applications. There was a time where I distro hopped (every one goes through this stage eventually) but I always came back to Archlinux. Now other distros and OS only run in contained, virtual machines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 If it were anyone else, I would ask if Hedon was remembering correctly that it worked on fluxbox... Very strange one, with the developer and such...like the Twilight Zone... haha! if it were anyone else, I probably wouldn't be smiling as I posted this, but here's your proof: http://imgur.com/a/WTBoH My LXDE autostart file, with "fluxbox --replace" and "pekwm --replace" window manager entries, along with my Fluxbox menu indicating that it does indeed work in an Lubuntu distro! Who knows why....but it does?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Yeah, I am thinking that it is a patch of sorts that Lubuntu has. That would explain why the Fluxbox developer doesn't know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted February 26, 2017 Author Share Posted February 26, 2017 I think you're right. But, FWIW, it's a half-assed patch. While it allows the "--replace" flag to be implemented, I cannot simply replace the "openbox-lubuntu" window manager with "fluxbox" without causing issues with my workspaces and my Tint2 panel. To be perfectly honest, I prefer the way Arch & Manjaro LXDE allow the window manager to be replaced with "fluxbox" with no ill side-effects. It's cleaner and simply more elegant. Actually, the more I think about this, I doubt it's an Lubuntu patch of fluxbox. Why would Lubuntu developers have ANY reason, whatsoever, to tinker with fluxbox packages? It's not even the most recent stable package; it's 1.3.5, which is obtained from Ubuntu, which is obtained from Debian. If it's a patch, Debian patched it, but I would think that Debian would make upstream contribution, wouldn't it? And if so, fluxbox devs would be aware of it. Still may not implement it, but would be aware. I'm inclined to believe this is a BUG in Lubuntu that somehow worked to my benefit. I note that vanilla LXDE metapackages in Arch & Manjaro use "openbox-lxde" as a window manager, which is similar to my experience of installing LXDE on an Ubuntu minimal/server installation. Lubuntu modifies LXDE a little (including using "openbox-lubuntu" as window manager), which changes the directory structure of underlying files somewhat; perhaps in an effort to be 100% compatible with Ubuntu directory structures. Cant remember the specifics, but I seem to remember this, which is what lead me to conclude that I might as well just use Lubuntu, as that was easier than modifying LXDE for Ubuntu. It might be an interesting experiment to load up Ubuntu mini as a VM again; install the LXDE meta-package (with openbox-lxde window manager) with fluxbox and pekwm packages; and see if PLAIN LXDE on Ubuntu acts like Arch/Manjaro, allowing me to simply change window manager to "fluxbox" with no issues, or whether it acts like Lubuntu and causes issues. Based on everything I've learned so far, I'm willing to bet that Ubuntu/LXDE behaves like Arch/Manjaro/LXDE. I'm willing to bet that the Lubuntu customizations introduced a bug that unintentionally messes up any window manager changes, but also unintentionally honors the "--replace" flag. Invoking Occam's Razor....THIS seems like a safe bet to me! Hmmm..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Could be but how could the fluxbox developer not know about that. I remember the --replace switch from back in the old compiz days when you replaced emerald. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.