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Linux: Experiment or Taking Hold?


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jbredmound

I was just over on the Mozilla topic talking about being homesick. I just immediately miss daily conveniences that I am not going to get (at least, easily) with Moz.Now, Linux...I haven't downloaded it because I haven't been able to find the support that I think I need for it. I have one computer, so if Windows crashes because I do something stupid with Linux, I have a lot to lose. I don't think I have the time, or want to make the time, to fix that.The ole computer does one major thing for me, and that is open up a world of conveniences. Short of curiosity, why would I want to give up all of my Windows-supported conveniences for this brave new world?Point very well taken that Linux is in it's infancy. Until it is able to grow up, the normal user is probably going to avoid it like the plague.The positive is that, as more enterprise moves to open source (and they have plenty of reasons to take that plunge), the growth curve of all of these open source systems should angle upwards sharply.For now, I'm a Windows guy, and, I sustpect, an IE/OE guy, too.

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Guest ComputerBob

I've been hearing about Linux since 1993, and I think it was around for a year or so before that. So, it's not quite as old as Windows, but it's been around for over a decade. :)

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I've installed and tried several distro's Slackware, SusE, Mandrake, and Redhat. I must admit that the first two did not do a lot for me... Mandrake is a good distro especially for new people to the Linux "thing" but I seem to keep gravitating back to RedHat (it could be that I'm only 1.5 hrs from their offices in NC). Actually I think it has a lot to do with business acceptance and general usage most businesses use RedHat as a standard platform since it has the "name" and it has a large number of partnerships with the likes of Dell, HP/Compaq, and IBM to name a few big hardware vendors as well as Oracle and a number of other big software companies... I would like to voice one gripe I have specifically with MandrakeSoft (the Mandrake Distro company) I firmly believe that their business plan is severely flawed... there was a lot of support from people and they had given a lot of money to the company, then they had a stock offering that netted them millions and millions of dollars, which they now have seemingly gone through then I believe they had a second offering and that money's gone... then they file for chapter 11 re-organization re-structuring which allows them NOT to pay their creditors and also effectivly makes the little papers of stock shares worthless. Now I see very often that they are begging for more money and I am no longer moved to give them any. While I may think that their software is good and has a LOT of good points I find it irritating to say the least that it appears they went through so much money is such a short time.I'm stepping off my soap box now...Well... I'm off to bed now... it's late...--

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Guest ThunderRiver

Yes MandrakeSoft has some seriuos management problem.Normally, no matter how bad a company is, file for bankrupt protection would be the last thing to do.SuSe has actually grown up to be the most innovative Linux distribution, and their YaST installation is just impressive. I haven't had much problems with SuSe yet except the sound card driver. I am hoping version 8.2 will get better. At the same time, I am still exploring in my OpenBSD box. There is always smoething new to learn in the UNIX world :D-------jbredmound, there is no shame about being a Windows user. I am also a Windows user as well, and I am happy with the technology that Microsoft has put in over the past few years. I am still excited about the upcoming features that MS plans to put in Windows Longhorn. I certainly can't live without IE and MS Office. There is no way Linux can completely replace those two.Linux on the other hand, is a very nice programming environment, and if not, I don't know what you can do with it. I actually have experienced a lot more "Segmentatin Errors" in Linux than in BSD/Solaris, so I sometimes wonder what's the use of Linux, but like always, it is just another choice that people have.I would definitely not suggest you to instal Linux as your primary machine espeically since you never touch Linux in the past. However, if you do have some spare money to chip in and buy a not-so-bad machine and installs Linux on it, and learn it at your spare time. I think it will be quite beneficial for you.

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Grasshopper

I bought Redhat version 5.2 several years ago. I wasn't quite smart enough to use it back then. Then, I wanted to diversify...do something daring, but not get rid of my comfort zone, Windows. I wasn't able to connect to the internet or even change my monitor refresh rate to anything better than 60Hz. I just didn't know enough at that time.Since then, I have gotten my MCP, am an unofficial Windows troubleshooter everywhere I go, and am still comfortable with Windows........until the other day I started reading some article about what MS's plans are for the next 10 years (linked to it from an item in LangaList). I'm beginning to get fed up. My plan is to dual boot my current OS (XP home) and Linux for a while and make a real push to wean off of XP. I've found and been pointed to a few sites that'll help me along the way.We'll see...

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Guest ThunderRiver

Yes, along the line, Microsoft has put up a lot of things that might tick you off. Up to this date, I am still unhappy about the introduction of Palladium or the so called Next Generation Security.....somethingOn the other hand, there are indeed a tons of nice new features in Longhorn, such as the 3D driven GUI. Althogh it is still not known of what it is, but I am sure this time, a lot of graphics rendering will be stressed on the GPU, not CPU. Besides, that, there is YukonFS that classifies your files and make it possible for natural language search. One serach box that leads to all kinds of possibilities, such as email, documents, sound, Internet data, and more. I don't think Linux can accomplish such great feature within a couple years. As for Linux, it is still in its infancy, and of course, I won't give up on it. It all takes time, and open source does create a lot of new opportunies for better product and fierce competition. Have you guys tried QNX? It is actually another UNIX like system, but it is not Linux, and it is not BSD either. It has nice user interface and setup is quite simple, and it does have a lot of potentials for embeded system as well. It has been known that you can boot off Linux on iPod, but if you put in QNX, I guarantee that it will let you do more than just "boot up" Thunder

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With my old dinosaur of a computer (K6-111 witha VIA chipset0, the worst to install is 98, but that is a known issue with VIA chipsets. It takes awhile to get IRQ routing set up and my old modem takes a few wacks on the table to get recognized.2000 went very smooth to install, with the exception of the comm ports, but that was my fault and quickly got that sorted out.Red Hat on the other hand was a handfull, but because of the way the manual said to install. I kept getting wierd criptic errors. After 4 times, I was able to install it, but didn't set up a swap. Got that figured out by reading the manual for the umpteenth time and now it runs quite smooth. It is still rough around the edges compaired to 2000 but I will have to get used to it. I will not go to XP and am completely against the MS activation and licencing scheme, 2000 is my last MS OS. There is not much I can't do in linux that I can't do in windows for what I use it for. I rarely use a word processor so Office really doesn't mean much to me. BTW, I am posting this in Mozilla in linux right now. Now if we could get X-News ported to linux, I hate Pan.

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jbredmound

Thunder, I have known for a long time that I am going to have to get a SUC (Sport Utility Computer), but I can't decide whether to get the divorce first, or the computer first, as I am in trouble frequently for the time I spend on-line, and a SUC would only aggrevate that.So, anyway, I added up the cost of the dirvorce I went through before, did some reverse amortization, annuitized the whole thing, adjusted for inflation, and found that, in keeping the wife, I should be able to afford a Sun Server with multiple parrallel processors, several Microsoft Enterprise licenses for the duration of my expected life span, plus a T1 line, backup satellite connection, nearly ulimited software/hardware budget, and all the Glenlivit that I should want.(But I still have some Linux Blogs bookmarked, and will go to them occasionally when no one is around, erasing my history afterwards). :rolleyes:

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Guest ThunderRiver

colin.p: I don't like WPA more than you do, but luckily the place I work for has very nice relationship with Microsoft, we have corporation edition, which requires no activation of what so far. All Windows XP installed here requires a key, and that's all. NO activation required. That applies for Office Xp as well.Awhile back, all the public beta testers had a nice chat with Windows 2000 SP4 developers, and a friend of mine asked about the possibility of WPA in SP4. I doubt it is going to happen, but the developer asked him to email them for more detail, so I would love to know what's all that about. I doubt MS will include WPA in SP4 of Windows 2000 though.Note: at this moment, SP4 doesn't have WPA yet, not even Windows 2000 with SP4 pre-integrated.

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Guest ThunderRiver
Thunder, I have known for a long time that I am going to have to get a SUC (Sport Utility Computer), but I can't decide whether to get the divorce first, or the computer first, as I am in trouble frequently for the time I spend on-line, and a SUC would only aggrevate that.So, anyway, I added up the cost of the dirvorce I went through before, did some reverse amortization, annuitized the whole thing, adjusted for inflation, and found that, in keeping the wife, I should be able to afford a Sun Server with multiple parrallel processors, several Microsoft Enterprise licenses for the duration of my expected life span, plus a T1 line, backup satellite connection, nearly ulimited software/hardware budget, and all the Glenlivit that I should want.(But I still have some Linux Blogs bookmarked, and will go to them occasionally when no one is around, erasing my history afterwards).  :unsure:
I am a little bit confused about your problem. Divorce? Sports Utility Computer?Divorce with your wife? or with the existing Windows OS you running?Nonetheless, I would say spend like 600 dollars on a medium performance machine will be good enough. I don't think you need to look into Sun system unless you are luckily enough to find one at garage sale for 5 bucks.
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jbredmound you dog, are you spoofin' us again? :unsure: I especially liked the SUC. Now that was creative.-- Scot

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Hey BenHenry...I went and looked at that URL... I'd be extremely skeptical of using something like that... Scot... Do youi have a test system that you could sacr..er. um I mean test that on? I would take that machine off the network as well while doing it...--

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Guest ComputerBob
I've been thinking about switching to Linux... this might be an easy way to accomplish the task... I came across this program yesterday 04/01/03 at WebAttack:Free Windows to Linux Convertor ;)
Hehe Happy April Fool's Day!
The April 1st release date and the tiny size (161 KB) tipped me off, but I thought it was a very well-executed prank!
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greengeek
;) I fell for it too but it didn't matter because it was April 2nd here in Australia.You have a very interesting site ComputerBob.Joy
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Guest ComputerBob
You have a very interesting site ComputerBob.
Thank you! ;) I know you meant it as a compliment, but with my twisted sense fo humor, I'm reminded of how, when asked to comment about a horrific looking piece of art for the first time, people often try to think of something polite to say, likeIt's very... interesting. ;)
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havnblast

Yea I went and looked at that site too and only wish it was true after I started reading it. What the heck they can hack the Xbox and put linux on it and sent it to Bill Gates, so why do the same to Windows, the look on Bill's face would be priceless.

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Guest ThunderRiver
Yea I went and looked at that site too and only wish it was true after I started reading it.  What the heck they can hack the Xbox and put linux on it and sent it to Bill Gates, so why do the same to Windows, the look on Bill's face would be priceless.
Linux is not necessarily better for xBox. It is just that since xBox is just like a PC, and people seem to eager to put any PC devices with Linux.
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So many things keep me from jumping off into Linux. Some days though, I think to myself, just do it, Scot. And then I think ... but, dang, my boss expects me to do reports in Microsoft Excel and Word. I can't just chuck Windows. I've looked at StarOffice and the like, and they're fine, but when my boss sends me revision tracking or does something fancy in Excel, I can't take the chance that I won't be able to work with the file.If I mention that I'm using Opera for Windows in a meeting at my company, all the eyes swivel toward me and there's this pause while people consider what sort of flashback to the 60s prompted me to do something so unusual.Of course, maybe I should just quit the darned day job. That'd solve the problem. :D -- Scot

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Guest ThunderRiver

CrossOver Office does the trick with Word 2000 and so on except Frontpage 2000 in Linux.I guess that's the best Linux can do. I would not recommend people using OpenOffice for text formating and so on. They say it is compatible, but it is really not quite true.If you compose a document in Word Xp/2003 with table and borders, OpenOffice will incorrectly display the documents. Anyway, like a friend of mine once said, "What more should I say? Microsoft Office is the best! Nothing can replace it!"

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Guest ThunderRiver

To avoid the hassle with the installation of CrossOver Office (it is easy to install though..), SuSe has a version of Linux that has CrossOver Office include by defaultCheck it out here

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I was dualbooting FreeBSD/Windows for a while, when the Windows HD failed (ah yeah the glorious 75GXPs...). I didn't have the time to get a replacement immediately, so I was "stuck" on FreeBSD for two months. When I got the replacement HD, I decided to not reinstall windows - haven't looked back since.What I like about FreeBSD is that I actually understand what's happening, that there's no dumbing down. If Windows suddenly starts accessing my HD or becomes slow, I don't know what the **** it's doing. I get weird error messages that tell me there's an error but not why or how I can solve the problem. All this is different with FreeBSD - with enough effort, I can understand 100% what my system is doing at any given point.And of course I can do things that I didn't dream of with windows... Unix is like lego. With simple tools you can assemble great castles. Windows is more like playmobil - it's fun, but you can't really leave the track that MS set down.

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I have a Annihilator2 Video card. The only real problem is getting the Nvidia GLX drivers to work in Slackware. The main driver works great, I used NVchooser as suggested by the Nvidia site and d/l the Version 2960 tarball, but sooner or later I'll get it!! Other than that Slackware recognizes my network and SB live cards just fine. I have not had a chance to try it yet, but Iomega has a Linux driver for the 250 external zip drive!! Mine is the paralell port version, and I'm gonna give it a shot to see if this puppy will work. Will give it a go this weekend and re-post here to let everyone know how it goes and if I encounted any real problems. ;)

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Yes - very interesting reading what everyone had to say.I dabbled with RH 5.2/6.0 about 2 years ago and quickly lost interest in trying to learn Linux and troubleshoot sound/modem problems.So why did I go out and buy SuSE 8.1 to give Linux another try?I am a diehard Windows user and really like XP. But there is no doubt in my mind that MS has a diabolical plan up it's sleeve to increase the cash flow with another scheme:1. Don't call it 'Windows' anymore and you can get around the DOJ agreement with a new product like Longhorn. 2. Build the new OS and all other new MS products with a built in expiration date. It must drive Bill nuts that people are still using Windows 98 and Office 97! 3. Place spyware on all MS products to make sure that every man,woman and child on the planet adheres to the license agreement by monitoring every computer that uses their product. So how is it going with SuSE 8.1? Overall, very well. YaST is great! It found ALL of my hardware on a 'el-cheapo' integrated board I bought just for the Linux install. Inlcuding a internal PCI modem I bought - still working with SuSE tech. support trying to figure out why I connect to my ISP just fine, but I get a DCOPserver error when I open a browser or email program....yet if I connect to the net via my server and the network all works well.And using YaST2 - I was able to install all updates from the SuSE site.Overall impression of SuSE 8.1 - very good.But being a gluton for punishment, I have Mandrake 9.1 coming next week to take it out for a spin. ;)

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Guest LilBambi

Scot --I hear ya ... but those day jobs make paying the bills a bit easier sometimes :P

And of course I can do things that I didn't dream of with windows... Unix is like lego. With simple tools you can assemble great castles. Windows is more like playmobil - it's fun, but you can't really leave the track that MS set down.
Maxlor --I love the lego versus playmobil analogy ... and it is so true! And BSD/UNIX is the epitomy of fast computing! We have a couple computers with it and it can't be beat for speed!I have one Windows box and one Linux box with KVM switch between them. There are some things I can only can do in Windows -- software dependent things that don't have acceptable equivalents (in my opinion) in Linux/Unix yet ... but that day's coming! -- Plus I have to keep up on what's going on in Windows ... it's my bread and butter :P
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