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Linux: Experiment or Taking Hold?


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I've noticed that among experienced Windows users who try Linux, one of two things usually happens. Either:You install it, play around, admire some things about it, but can't bring yourself to actually use Linux apps with your real data.orYou install it, your admiration turns into a strong feeling of affection, and you spend hours learning its intricacies, finding apps that work well enough for your purposes, start to get acclimated, and pretty soon you're looking to dispose of Windows the way you might training wheels.I will admit to being in the former camp. I have installed Linux at least a dozen times, all different versions and types on a wide variety of PCs. But I can't seem to warm up to it, even though I know that someday I may honestly be pushed to that option by getting fed up with how Microsoft wields Windows.But what's your experience? What Linux distribution are you using? What problems are you having? How are you solving them? Is Linux ready for prime time on the desktop for the average user? What's your opinion? B) -- Scot

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SonicDragon

I have an old computer that i have an old version of Mandrake on. I don't use it very much, because it's slow and doesn't have a net connection. But, if i had a new computer to use it on, i think i would use it alot more. The little time i do spend with it is trying to upgrade the OS to something new. I haven't gotten anything to work. I tried Mandrake 9.0 when that first came out, but it would not boot from the CD. Same problem with FreeBSD.I also can never decide which *nix to install. Red Hat isn't in the United Linux organization (i think) and SuSE doesn't let you download the newest ISOs. I guess Debian is the next one i will try.I'll leave that for another weekend.

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Great post/topic, Scot. I think the questions you raise are the very things that most Windows users are struggling with about Linux.I for one truly enjoy working in Windows. Pains and aggrevations and all. Linux has them too. Anyone saying Linux does not, is either lying to themselves or just cranking out the anti-Windows propaganda. But.....I like Linux, although I do not have nearly the skills or knowledge level that I would like to have in Linux. I usually spend 3 or 4 hours a week playing with it. And every couple of months I will go on a binge and devote hours on end to it. But like Scot, Linux has not been able to win me over as a primary OS. There is just too much I still do not understand that makes it more work and aggrevation than just being able to enjoy using the OS. I like breaking down every piece of software....every OS I use and finding out EVERYTHING it does and how everything works. I just do not have the knowledge level or the time and desire to gain the knowledge level to be able to do that with Linux. I also feel Linux is not entirely ready to be a primary desktop OS for everyday users. Driver and software installs can still be too complicated, that is the first hurdle it needs to overcome. Secondly, until software and hardware makers start making products for Linux it will never get taken seriously as primary OS by Windows users. There are just too many apps that I can not do without. I know there are tons of Linux software alternatives, but the vast majority are sooooo lacking. Too much hardware that I use that is not compatible. There are no alternatives to that problem. But that is where it is up to the manufacturers to bridge those obstacles. To start making Linux a priority.As far as solving problems in Linux, I usually just bang my forehead off my desk about a half dozen times and then pretend the problem does not exist. Then format and reinstall. B) I just do not have the time to devote to solving the issues in Linux.I am currently using Mandrake as my main Linux OS. It has the best compatibility with my hardware. Have flirted with many though.But I do get the creeping feeling that XP will probably be my last MS OS. I am just hoping that the software and hardware makers get in line by that time.

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I guess majority is in the same waters regarding Linux.Considering that my every day job (digital prepress specialist) requires from me to use Mac OS 98% of the time and Windows 2%, leaves me only to pursue Linux as a hobby at home.I am dual booting and sometimes tri-booting and what not, all kinds of distros and OS's.I've grown to like it the way it is right now.I always get excited about new version of Mandrake or Suse or Redhat or Xandros or Lindows, etc...You don't have that with Windows.Today I killed my Gentoo installation to try new Mandrake 9.1 (no more HD space left B) ).I was pleasently surprised with default antialiasing of fonts and in Mozilla, without any tweaks.From the box it looked like a Windows for the first time, very very smooth and nice and polished, however as soon as I rebooted it first time I couldn't boot into KDE any more. My Gnome works fine but KDE not.It also looks like I am not alone as on the forums I found couple of people with the same broken KDE, out of blue.It has never happened to me on the same machine so it's some bugs in their (Mandrake's KDE) 3.1 version probably.My XP is always there waiting for me to get back to it every day.I just don't have enough time to devote to all different distros and OS's.I swear that I'll probably ditch all the Linux and Windos OSes for a Zeta, as soon as it's out.Scot, did you see the video from CEBIT.Bernd was running five different movies and playing MP3,s at the same time without any jerkness or disturbance on screen.Everything was soo smooth.He was ripping DVD and watching ripped file while it's being encoded.It's awesome, just cool.I have BEOS5 Pro and I really liked it and still like it but due to some hardware problems and some needed device drivers I have abandoned it for good.Now it looks like it is coming back in real style.Oh, by the way, SonicDragon, you can install Suse directly from FTP for free.Suse is not offering any ISO images for download but you can do installation for free if you mount their FTP, it's fairly easy to do and they have all instructions on download page.

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Guest ThunderRiver

zox, I am still wondering what OS that you were referring to that could play 5 movie, rip and encode at the same time without jerkness. As far as I know, only Mac with Quartz Extreme can do such thing because they put more weight on GPU than on CPU; thus all the graphics can play smoothly even when you drag window around the screen.I am still 80% Windows based user. I can't leave Windows mainly because I have soo much emails in archieve in Outlook Express. I haven't seen any email clients in Linux that can import my email smoothly. I also use other application that only Windows has it. It is a shame, but OpenOffice just doesn't cut it. Koffice is out of question. Microsoft Office is the best application out there in the market, and I can never live without it. Now if you say I could use CrossOver Office to install Office 2000, but then again, I love to stay with the newest feature from MS Office. As of now, I am already in love with MS Office 2003. It is the best Office that Microsoft has ever come up with. I am quite impressed.As for the 20%, I spent most of the time compiling and program in C++. I use G++ compiler in Solaris/OpenBSD to compile all my programs. Whenever I feel like it, I can fire up KDE 3.1 and work on there, but as of now, I am still on Windows most of the time. Zox, do you still feel Mandrake is better than Gentoo or the other way around? If I have time, I will fire up SuSe 8.1 on my desktop ;) I know SuSe is free, but 95% of the time, I get connection error/file not found error. So I am pretty much giving up the option to install on FTP. I still prefer to install right off CDs.Thunder

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greengeek
;) I really think if you stopped playing around with Linux and adopted just one distro and really worked at learning it you would understand a lot more about it. I use SuSE 8.0 Pro and found it very easy to install and just slightly frustrating to use (I'm still learning).It would have been a lot easier if I hadn't done all my computing in Windows first.Joy
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muckshifter

The main “problem†I see with Linux is people cannot afford the time and learn how to “drive†it.To drive a car you need a licence … to get a licence you take driving lessons. The driving lessons teach you the rudiments of driving, enough to pass your test at least. You then venture on to the open road and begin in earnest your driving experience. It doesn’t take long.You don’t need a licence to drive a computer, you buy a computer and the manufacturer, with a bit of luck, has already set it up with Windows. You turn it on and away you go. It doesn’t take you long.Linux does not come preconfigured; no PC manufacturer has set it up for you. It’s a DIY job.Buy a “kit car†and built it before you’re allowed to drive. Hmmm, that may be an answer to the over populace of cars. I digress.We never had Windows in my day and I have written programs in the past using various languages, I’ve forgotten more than I learned, but I know the basic structure of “how it works†I should therefore be a good candidate to “learn†Linux. I have time and one may be able to teach this old dog a few new tricks.I have tried several “Distributions†and still find I’m getting lost. It took me two days, using Suse I think, to “mount†a CD drive. It was only an accident by right-clicking the desktop that I “found out†how. You can laugh at this, I did, but not for the want of trying could I get/find out how to do it.StarOffice came bundled with my Distro, but was NOT installed; you had to DIY, huh! This is the first time I have had the “pleasure†and experience of a Linux crash. No way did this program want to play ball with Linux. Without a good Office program I’m wasting my time. There was nothing wrong with the “install program†and I just could not figure out how to do a “manual†install. It all installed fine on another system, but on that system I could not get the onboard graphics to work properly. I could go on …Linux is not ready for the ordinary user. Mucks. ;)

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ThunderRiver, I was talking anout "Zeta" from Yellowtab.They are the only one who managed to licence source code of BEOS and got all the code licenced from BEOS 6 that was in development but never released.Check them out here: http://www.yellowtab.com/If you have enough patiente, you can get video from CEBIT about system and see it perform, video is about 65 Mb in size and you need Divx 5.03 codec to watch it.On the gravity mirror you can find Divx 5.03 codec.http://ddanneels.free.fr/Zeta-CeBIT2003.avihttp://beos.spb.ru/fyysik/BeOS-Zeta-Presen...n-CeBIT2003.avihttp://www.kaldience.com/zetademo/Zeta-CeBIT2003.avihttp://gravity24hr.com/mirror/zeta/And for your question aboout Mandrake and Gentoo, I think overall if you are looking for no hassle distro with easy installation I would say Mandrake but they are not in the same category because with Gentoo there is installation hassle but you get highly optimized system for your computer and you install only stuff that you really need and you will use which makes greatly optimized, non-bloated system.Oh, yeah you also get KDE and Gnome and any other Window manager just like their developers intended it to be without any third party tweaks and such.Drawback is long installation (source code based distro), it took me 5 hours to compile kernel but it took me almost 22 hours to compile KDE on Gentoo. Imagine having to reinstall everything from scratch ;)

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Guest ThunderRiver

zox, with my experience so far, i have no problem doing installatin from scratch. I have done compiling kernel and everything from stage 1 in gentoo. Took me forever just to compile KDE3 on a 200 Mhz 64 mb box..nonetheless, it runs..BSD is nice if you only need SSH and G++. It is the best OS for server and programming as well ;)

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I'm a fairly experienced Windows user, and 99% of my pc computing is done using Windows. I have tried Linux a few times, once with Mandrake (I think 7) and once most recently with Red Hat 8. Neither process went smoothly at all, and those experiences have discouraged me from experimenting further.With the Mandrake installation, the problem was a known bug whereby the installation routine didn't successfully configure the swap partition. As a consequence, the computer ran very very slowly with no indication as to why. The fix, which I found on their website after about an hour of searching, was to go into the command line and manually configure the swap partition. The process was definitely NOT something a beginner or novice computer user would be able to do. Once I got everything up and running, the interface was great but I couldn't figure out how to install anything. Definitely not as simple as double-clicking on setup.exe. My soundcard didn't work, and I read (again on the website) that I would have to recompile the kernel in a certain way to include the correct driver support. Huh? Recompile the kernel? Way too much work, and I just gave up and reinstalled Windows 98. I was up and running in less than an hour.With the Red Hat installation, I downloaded the iso images and burned my own installation cds. Everything looked like it was going ok with the installation, but upon the final stages of bootup it simply wouldn't work. I got some arcane error message and was dumped into a text shell. Not very impressive.All in all, I REALLY want Linux to work for me. But I simply don't have the time it takes to get it working right. Windows may cost more $$ up front and down the line, but so far the $$ has been worth the productivity I have gained by using it. Until Linux will install as easily and work as well right out of the box, until software installations are as easy to do, and until there are more full-featured applications, I have no choice but to stick with Windows. For now.

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Guest LilBambi

I too have had my ups and downs with Linux ... my Introduction to Linux was very exciting and VERY frustrating at the same time.First installation was with Mandrake 7.0 and it went without a hitch ... then I realized, due to my lack of understanding about it at the time, that I hadn't made efficient use of the partitioning ... so I reinstalled it again from scratch.Even though the installation went beautifully both times. Then there were conflicts with sound card and network card that would not go away...I'd get it working, boot into Win98 and come back and I could either surf the net or, have sound ... grrrr!I reinstalled it again thinking I had really botched something up. That's number three in one day...oh, and did I mentioned that I had to reinstall Windows too? The disk partitioner for Mandrake 7.0 destroyed my Windows partition for me (and yes, it was on a single drive, two partitions; and I had made prior preparations on Win98 side before trying this...but there was some sort of glitch (turns out this was a known Mandrake 7.0 partitioner glitch under these circumstances, but I hadn't known about it till later).Finally, when I was done pulling my hair out, my Jim started pulling his out! But he actually fixed it.I was dual booting at the time with Win98 on a built for Windows type BIOS/motherboard that had a built in Yamaha sound card, ISA network card (static IRQ), and an ATI All in Wonder Pro (also static IRQ and not obvious). Turned out that Windows and Linux were fighting over IRQs and messing with each other. Jim gave them both a PNP lobotomy...told them both what IRQs they would use for the different cards, and rebooted .... voila! Perfect :)From there, it was one learning experience after another ... it's all good ... as my son would say B) But it certainly wasn't the best experience to start off with.Eventually I got a second computer built and bought a KVM switch because I didn't like not being able to be in both OSes at the same time. I now have RedHat 7.2 and am considering updating to the new RedHat or at least to RedHat 7.2 .... when I can get a full set of ISOs or CD-Rs of Debian, I will check that out too.Overall, it has been at least as interesting and frustrating as my first introduction to computers and DOS ;) I love learning and I hate to give up ... it helps :rolleyes:Oops...I almost forgot to answer the question. Is it ready to be the primary OS for users? Probably not all normal users yet, but I really see that happening very soon with the strides that Linux Distros are making. Many folks have done it and been happy with it already, even in some corporate environments.Me, I agree with Stryder ... there are still too many things that I just can't do without that only run in Windows. I know I could run them on a Virtual Machine in Linux ... but then you have to buy any decent VM...and you still have to own Windows.Eventually, if Microsoft continues weilding Windows as they are choosing to do right now and for the future ... I will find a way to leave Windows in the dust ... and Linux will probably be the truck that leaves the dust behind. <_>

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Guest ThunderRiver

Hehe, my first time installation of Linux went horrible, and I couldn't even get X start running, and sound is obviously out of question. Second time of isntallation resulted in "Kernel panic"...Nonetheless, like you LilBambi, I didn't give up. Linux still has a lot of potentials, and I enjoy learning it. I am good at learning things that software related, and I hope it will stay that way as I get older.I have had success with Red Hat and Mandrake for about 20 min before I crashed both of them with WINE. Perhaps, I should not have played around with WINE in them, but I did, so oops. Back in Red Hat 8, I also messed up the font system with WINE as well. All I ever did was su command, and then, it just killed the system like no tomorrow. <_< And then, I didn't give up on it yet. I reinstalled Red Hat, and two weeks later, it was hijacked in DOS attack. How wonderful of Red Hat. My success actually started with Slackware. People say Slackware and Debians are for hackers only, but well, I suppose they are half true because I have learned soo much from Slackware, and every since then, it has paved up the road for later successful installatins of other distro as well. SuSe installation is the most userful friendly Linux setup I have seen up to this date. BSD installation is entirely text mode, but its installation guide is as comprehensive as you see on Gentoo linux web site; thus it is quite easy to get BSD up and running in no time.ThunderRiver

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Thunder, I did not have any problems with Gentoo whatsoever.I like it and I'll probably go back to it once I am done with new Mandrake and new Redhat.I've had problems with KDE in new Mandrake 9.1 and I am not alone.More and more people are experiencing the same type of problems so there will be probably official patch or fix for it.I have had my share of bruises from Linux over the years but that is good way of learning Linux.I can remember, my first days in Windows were not that glorious either.You have to keep trying and finding infos on internet in order to succed.I would say for beginer, go with Xandros/Lindows/Lycoris.Any of those is pretty much painless and quick on install.Xandros has really easy file manager that is different then in any other Linux distro (from days of Corel Linux).I would be pretty happy with it, but I am waiting for next release that will include KDE 3.1.Xandros comes with Crossover plugin and Crossover Office plugin already installed so it is breeze to install and run most of the Windows applications on it.Xandros includes technolofy preview CD of their next release with KDE 3 but it is rather buggy.I tried Lindows also and I can tell you that it runs great.Yes it's true they hide subscription price but you actually get some real value for that price.You have many commercial software packages that are not available as a free download by itself.In Lindows "Click 'n run" it's very easy, just like that and values of the available software to download superseed subscription price to "Click 'n run" by far.Lycoris of all the others has the best interface IMHO.What is problem with Lycoris and Xandros is that they don't have strong software support like Lindows.Lycoris is also based on older version of KDE like Xandros.It all depends what you do and what you want to do.I am trying to recreate my working environment in Linux but it is impossible so far.Lack of deceint color management is a number one reason for me to keep using Mac and Windows, also easier font management is also a must. Commercial support from some companies such as Adobe and Quark would make my day but somehow I don't see it happening.

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Guest LilBambi

zox -That kind of simplicity for Linux is coming ... the Linux community will see to that! :)The crossover plugin is supposted to work very well...haven't used it myself though.Thunder -Speaking of Wine ... well, let's not speak about Wine ... I will just end up Whining <_ i think linux is doing pretty well their focus for the desktop arena since it such a new os compared to contenders.>

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That is the one point so many people who are new to Linux do not understand. Windows has been evolving for 20 years or so. Linux has only been at it a fraction of that time. Linux is in its infancy still. The one thing that does slow Linux down it that there are so many people devoting their time to so many different distros. If you had the best people from all of those distros working closely together Linux would evolve much quicker. But it is nice having all those distros because it allows you to choose a OS that works best for you, unlike Windows.I just wish Apple would port its OS to PC. I know that is not gonna happen, but I can dream. And it would sure rock MS's world. Then we would get true innovation and consumer friendy options in our OS's. Competition always benefits the consumer. I wonder how many people would go to OS X if it was ported to PC. I think I need a poll.

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Guest LilBambi

Yeah, you are so right Stryder.Sometimes when I think of Linux versus Windows in the Desktop arena, it reminds me of the movie "Short Circuit" when Stephanie said "I think he's doing very well for a 2-day old." <_>

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I've noticed that among experienced Windows users who try Linux, one of two things usually happens. Either:You install it, play around, admire some things about it, but can't bring yourself to actually use Linux apps with your real data.orYou install it, your admiration turns into a strong feeling of affection, and you spend hours learning its intricacies, finding apps that work well enough for your purposes, start to get acclimated, and pretty soon you're looking to dispose of Windows the way you might training wheels.I will admit to being in the former camp. I have installed Linux at least a dozen times, all different versions and types on a wide variety of PCs. But I can't seem to warm up to it, even though I know that someday I may honestly be pushed to that option by getting fed up with how Microsoft wields Windows.But what's your experience? What Linux distribution are you using? What problems are you having? How are you solving them? Is Linux ready for prime time on the desktop for the average user? What's your opinion?  :) -- Scot
Well i am nearly based upon scots second type of out come in using linux.First of all my first linux distro was Turbo linux.....installed it......checked few things outbut never go to do anything usefull on it, then one day got hold of Redhat 7.1 , again installed it....but this time i did sat and went for ever deeper exploration, but still i couldnt do much on it, didnt get any modem drivers for it, didnt get to play any games, even now i dont :) .Well then time passed i got hold of mandrake 8.0, which was when i was able to do many things on itlike i learned how to complie and install my own custom kernels.....patching the kernels, installings rpms....did a major surgery by installing kde on it 3.0 was the version....learned how to install nvdia drivers.....and again installthem after chaning to a new kernel.......ripped a few music cd's to mp3 in linux.........by this time i began to understandthe difference between Gnome and KDE , used them both and ended up using kde as it was more usuable.....:).Well then Redhat 8.0 appeared on the arena......i got temped to try redhat again..........moved in to my new home.By now a year had passed using linux.........and by now i had enough knowledge to do day to day things on it.......but moving into Redhat brought out new issue, like how do i install fonts, how do i manage rpms........no kpackage is their in redhat.........what about playing DVD's.......games still no sight of it apart from tribes and quake.......hey UT too :).For package managments in redhat 8.0 i would recommended apt4rpm with synaptic front end, installing fonts......read the readme when installing redhat.........hmm...internet .....yeah GAIM for IM, a very stable , usuable IM i have come across......it just works.....browsers....my pick mozilla, opera.....any day.........email prog i use mozilla's mail module....reason its saves my mails just as i see them in the mail prog.....evolution is very undead kind....i just dont feel that it has any life in it.......although its a good e-management program.........overall..And for other programs i use Open office........and Textmaker currently in beta 2....a good prog over all.......hmm as for printing i had a lexmark Z32 which did worked.......printed some docs too.....but my current printer hp 3325 does get detected by kuduz...but i cant seem to make it work in any prog in linux.......i would say i just cant get one decent place where i can configure the printer like i do in XP.Apart from all these exprience......i would say linux is still isnt a average users cup of tea yet, although many down to earth distros are their, but still a average user would like things to just work .....kinda install and use not pray.... :) See all distros run on top of the linux kernel....thats fine for me...but what i see that no distro maker is making any effort to simplify things i.e. like if u install a font in RH 8 only few selected applications would be able to use it......no like in windows u install the font and forget.....no user wants to see this crap of font server , font path bla bla.......yeah this reminds me of X server running on top of everthing.....so untilall this North , South , East and West components of linux dont unite and act as one entity , they can't beat the easy of use of Windows Xp....as i like it......yeah stability is their in linux no dought , the only time i have to reboot is when when my sis wants to use Ms word.....ya play some games.....she is definitely scared by its complexity....dont blame me i use linux ok. And another issue is each distro has its own way of doing and installing things , customizing things remember Redhat and kde fisco.......and where it install kde and how it prefers gnome over kde.....so until linux as a platform dont have standards i dont think........even the free appeal of linux would ever eco on deskop users as they just want things to work right out of the box, no average user would bother which switches to use to install a particular rpm nor would he/she be bothered should it be best to compile it from source......no no just no, believe me. Any ways i will stop here otherwise i'll keep blabing and blabing......so i sign off here....flame me. :) and hey ask any average user that does he/she do know how to make and activate a swap partition just in case his distro's installation prog didnt configured it properly.........i guess what would the answer be :)
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Guest ThunderRiver

There is already a couple internal builds of Mac OS X that does run on X86, but why would Apple agree to make it available to PC world? It is their pride, and it will always be. "hey..I got a Mac!""wow!"That's the impression that Apple wants pep to have.. As for PC, .."hey I got Mac OS X to run on my PC!!""yeah....eh ..that's cute.."Apple will eventually switch to its CPU, but it doesn't necessarily mean the beginning of Mac OS X on X86 architecture. You will see..

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Lots of great comments and insights in this thread. I'm fascinated with it. I think it was Stryder who said he fears that XP might be his last version of Windows. I have the same inner suspicion. While I'm sure I will install and test Longhorn; I am definitely not sure (yet) that it will become my primary OS.Like many of you, my most recent Linux installation experience is Mandrake 7. I had no problems with the install (a multiple boot with Windows whatever), except for the usual device driver problems. Sound card, of course. I spent a lot of time trying to make the soundcard work this time, trying to install the a beta open-source driver offered at SoundForge, as I recall. I could never get it to work though.My biggest frustration with Linux overall isn't drivers, though. I could probably live with that problem. My biggest problem is dealing with installing software. Because that process varies slightly from distro to distro, it brings no end of frustration to me. I am, like many of you, not very knowledgeable yet about Linux, though. I consider myself to be something just beyond Linux newbie.My latest Linux experience, though, and one I haven't had much time to explore or report on, is a a Lindows 2 PC made by Microtel. This was one of the original models offered in Wal-Mart. The company sent me this machine to evaluate, and for a lot of reasons, it took me a while to clear space to actually set it up in SFNL "Labs." By the time I did, Lindows 3.0 was out. When I started the machine for the first time I was greeted with several minor error messages, mostly having to do with changes to phone-home software Lindows includes. It's not bad phone home stuff. They have that online software thing, but apparently things have changed since they built that PC. And this is the kind of thing that frustrates me about Linux and its vendor community. They seem to feel that anger against Microsoft is enough for us to put up with a bad user experience. And for some of us, I think that works. But not for most of us.If someone took Windows away from today, I'd get a Mac (or several of them). I'm not a big Apple fan, but at least the Mac is an environment that's well thought out and has decent software, if not loads of it. I'd honestly prefer to be far more involved with Linux than I am. I just can't help feeling like the companies involved haven't made end users a priority. Most are focused still on selling servers to enterprises. They make noises about the desktop experience, but it seems half-hearted to me.I want more from Linux. And if and when it delivers, I might happily jump ship. Of course, I don't see myself letting go of Windows either, not any time soon. But you never know.-- Scot

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Guest ComputerBob

I'm a long time DOS/Windows user. I've installed, used and supported every version of Windows through WinNT4, and I've used WinXP but haven't installed or supported it.I wrote an article about my desire to eventually replace Windows with Linux, called ComputerBob's Guide To Windows vs. Linux.When I bought and installed Mandrake Linux 9.0 Power Pack Edition a few months ago. I was extremely impressed by the huge number of good apps that came with it. Unfortunately, I was also extremely frustrated by its inability to detect/configure several pieces of my nearly 5 year-old PC and its recently upgraded components.Judging from the feedback that I've received on it, my resulting Review of Mandrake Linux 9.0 has been viewed as either a valuable heads-up, or as a worthless ranting diatribe, depending on how unquestioningly loyal to Linux the reader has been.Since then, I installed SuSE Linux 8.1. It did a much better job of detecting my hardware, but its KDE desktop ran slow as syrup compared to Mandrake's KDE desktop. I know, you shouldn't use KDE on an older, slower, PC, but KDE did run fast enough to be usable in Mandrake, while it ran too slow to be usable in SuSE.Bottom line: I am ready for Linux whenever Linux is ready for me. :D

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Guest ThunderRiver

MandrakeSoft might not be last forever, and they already filed bankruptcy protection to the court a long time agoLindows has a lot of hype mainly because of the fact that it was being sued by Microsoft, and the fact that its founder was also the founder of mp3.com as well. I thought about buying one from Microtel as well, but when I look at their computer spec, my head can only shake, not nod with smile. Nonetheless, for people that need a cheap computer from WalMart, it is always a choice.There are already a number of other distros that do pretty much similar thing as Lindows does, and probably better than Lindows. Lycrois for one is a good choice although I haven't been have to try out their newest version. Last time I tried out their "Lizard" installation wizard, it crashed, so it was no where near beginning of its installation. Recently, a number of friends told me that bug was fixed, so I might give it another try.Yopper Linux is another distro that people might want to try. It is a dsitro mainly designed as a workstation for business users. It comes with fully functional Office programs as well as CD burning programs as well. It sounds quite promising, but it is now costing money as well. Shame isn't it?

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Well just to clear some thing.They filed for something similar to Chapter 11 (French version) and that is protection from bankruptcy.So while they are not bankrupt, they can continue to work and charge but only their investors and others can's pull the money out of them as they are protected, I hope I explained it right :D It is time limited and I've heard of many companies coming out of that "protection" unharmed.Let's hope that will be the case with Mandrake as I like their distro, despite of recent problems I've had.

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Guest ThunderRiver

Hehe Zox, thanks for clearing that up. Alot of times, I actually thought that when they file the bankruptcy protection, it means that the odds we won't see the company alive in the future. Who knows.But in the market of Linux, it is not really supposed to be profitable because the OS kernel is free, so 3rd parties, like Adobe, would be the one that's benefited from it.As for Mandrake, I don't really see a lot of people would be willing to chip in some money just to get their support.

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Guest LilBambi
Well just to clear  some thing.They filed for something similar to Chapter 11 (French version) and that is protection from bankruptcy.So while they are not bankrupt, they can continue to work and charge but only their investors and others can's pull the money out of them as they are protected, I hope I explained it right  :D It is time limited and I've heard of many companies coming out of that "protection" unharmed.Let's hope that will be the case with Mandrake as I like their distro, despite of recent problems I've had.
zox --You are absolutely right. If we were to write off every company that went into bankruptcy reorganization, there wouldn't be nearly as many around as there are today...including some of the major airlines! :(
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havnblast

I think a lot of installs of Linux would go better if people would build their own systems that were 100% linux compatiable. I knew when I wanted to get another computer I would be doing linux so before I bought anything I made sure it was supported and I have not had any problems with installations. Everything works on the first install, which helps from not getting frustrated.Working with people and computers I recognize a common trait among 90% of em. They don't want to read on their own about anything. They would rather go into a chat room or a forum and scream and yell for help and they have no idea what they are yellin for. Linux has excellant documentation all over the place for free. I am very impressed with how linux has come along over the years and I know now that I could switch from Windows and not step backwards too far. Once Adobe and Macromedia start makin Linux programs I will be set.As far as learning Linux, it isn't any different than when we had to learn Windows. If we started on Linux and tried Windows for first time today it would seem strange.-----------------RedHat 8.0 user dual booting with Windows XP

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havnblast

Oh Yes! patiently waiting for KDE 3.1 too -- looks great, have always loved the KDE desktopJust seen this at KDE OrgOn March 20th 2003, the KDE Project released KDE 3.1.1 :D

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I think a lot of installs of Linux would go better if people would build their own systems that were 100% linux compatiable.  I knew when I wanted to get another computer I would be doing linux so before I bought anything I made sure it was supported and I have not had any problems with installations.  Everything works on the first install, which helps from not getting frustrated....As far as learning Linux, it isn't any different than when we had to learn Windows.  If we started on Linux and tried Windows for first time today it would seem strange.
Looking at it from the point of view of the 'average computer user' (which I realize is a very subjective term), I'd say that most people don't expect to have to go through that much trouble to get Linux on a computer. I'd consider myself an above average computer user, and I know I hate dealing with the compatibility hassle.I agree that learning a different operating system takes a bit of effort, whether it's a Mac user learning Windows, a Windows user learning Linux, a Linux user learning Windows, etc. It just so happens that most people learning a new operating system are coming from a Windows background, so the various Linux interfaces have to overcome the learning curve aversion. I'd have to say, though, that learning Linux definitely requires more technical skills than learning Windows. As a matter of fact, learning Linux today reminds me a lot of learning DOS and Windows 3.1 ten years ago. Maybe not as bad, but close.My opinion is that it will probably take Linux another three to five years before it will be considered a real option for the type of person who goes to the Gateway Store or Best Buy to get a computer.
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Guest ThunderRiver

Apparently Zeta or BeOS 6 is quite attractive and powerful at the same time. So if they ever take Windows away, I will go for either Zeta or Mac OS X.Yeah, I can't wait for Adobe to release its Photoshop on Linux. I don't like Gimp as much as Photoshop though.ThunderRiver

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