raymac46 Posted February 2, 2023 Posted February 2, 2023 I have just done an extensive update to Spiral Linux on my junker desktop and everything is working well. 1 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 14, 2023 Author Posted August 14, 2023 On 8/2/2022 at 12:43 AM, SpiralLinux1 said: Hi everyone, thanks for the friendly replies and opinions! Sorry for my slow response, it took quite a while for my account to be approved here and I don't frequently check the associated email address. @Hedon JamesThanks for the kind comments! Of course I respect your preferences, and I do appreciate the constructive criticism. I'm thrilled to hear that SpiralLinux is filling a need for you. So regarding the method used to create SpiralLinux, as @sunrat correctly deduced, I use a tool created by the Debian project itself called live-build. (The link is at the bottom of the SpiralLinux website, I won't post it here to avoid possibly setting off forum spam control). It's not technically a "remaster" tool, as it actually builds the ISO from the ground up (known as "bootstrapping") directly from the Debian repos using DEB packages and a simple predefined folder structure that basically contains a recipe for building the ISO. It consists essentially of a file containing a long list of package names that should be installed, another file that defines the repositories to pull said packages from, some shell scripts that automatically run the same sort of commands that an advanced human user would often run in the terminal to customize a system, and an "overlay" filesystem that adds and/or replaces files in the system image, which is used to override some of the Debian defaults and create the unique SpiralLinux configuration. You can easily install live-build on any Debian system with sudo apt install live-build and then download and decompress the .tar.gz files that I upload to the SpiralLinux Github repo. Those contain the full recipe to build SpiralLinux with live-build, I even include a little wrapper script that I wrote so you just have to cd into the directory, change the date code for the ISO filename, and then run ./spiral -i and about an hour later you'll have yourself a fresh ISO waiting for you. As for actual "remaster" tools that take a base ISO or an installed system and allow for creating a new ISO from it, that's also something that interests me. I also checked out Remastersys wayyyyy back in the day. I also ran across Penguin Eggs, please let me know if you try it and how it works. Wow....time got away from me and I didn't realize how long ago these posts were. OTOH....sounds about right.....I plan for things well in advance; but my real estate appraisal job didn't leave me much time for anything other than "****, shower, shave & sleep" until the last 2-3 months. But now that I've had time to sit down, tinker, and think my way through this, I DID IT! I've got Spiral remastered into MY PERFECT DISTRO! I was waiting for Spiral to update their 11.2 ISO to sync with Debian 12 Bookworm, but couldn't wait any longer. So I decided to upgrade Spiral in place to Bookworm using the Spiral "how to". My first time upgrading Debian in place and things went very smoothly....better than my experiences upgrading 'Buntus in place. Very nice...off to a good start, and a confidence booster that maybe I've found my "final distro", LOL! Then I set about removing many GTK apps and installing my preferred Qt app counterparts, where necessary. With that said, I still prefer some GTK apps and kept them, but I wanted to get the system as close to a "pure Qt" system as practical, knowing full well that I would retain GTK apps. For instance, I've now used GTK network-manager and Qt connman, and I much prefer network-manager; i've used GTK LightDM and I've used Qt SDDM and they're both quite nice, but LightDM is MUCH easier to work with and customize. All my preferred scanner apps are GTK based. But for the most part, I prefer Qt apps, with a few GTK offerings until Qt can match the functionality of the preferred GTK apps. But I digress... Then I set about customizing the appearance of the desktop....the usual suspects we all like to personalize: the wallpaper, the WM decorations, the color scheme, the fonts, the behavior of mouse gestures/keyboard bindings, etc... I like a Unity-style desktop appearance and have that as my default config; but I also provided some backup configs for MacOSX, Gnome2, and Windows style appearances for the preference of family & friends that I provide linux support to. It would be a PITA to show each of them how to make the desktop look familiar to them; but it is very easy to create that appearance for them, saved as a panel.conf file with a named backup extension (i.e. panel.conf.osx) to simply be copied into panel.conf for their use. I also MUST have my right-click/ctr-m desktop root menu, which now requires that the "desktop manager" module be disabled in LXQt session. Easy enough, but you also lose the ability for PCManFM to manage the desktop, so no more wallpapers or icon placement. Not a problem for me, as Nitrogen provides wallpapers easily and I really don't like cluttering my desktop with distracting icons....I like my desktop CLEAN. But I know many (most?) users consider desktop icons a must-have feature. So I left the default configuration in place for LXQt; knowing it would be very simple for me to allow my desktop root-menu, but challenging for my family & friends to make it go away. I also put an 8-page READ-ME.pdf file on the desktop as a tutorial for new users on "how to" do these things, as well as a recommended list of supplemental software, if desired. Things like links to Google Chrome & Teamviewer DEB files; recommendations for KODI in the Discover/Software center, etc... But MY PERFECT DISTRO is a swiss-army knife with software installed for just about every use-case scenario I can think of. And for purposes of homogeneity across machines, and troubleshooting, I put it ALL in there. The ISO clocks in around 3.5GB, but I will have to add NOTHING upon installation. FWIW... Then, the moment of truth for the ONE piece of software I wasn't sure of....PenguinsEggs. PenguinsEggs is very much like Remastersys or Systemback, but without the GUI. After reading through the manual, I don't understand many aspects of PenguinsEggs and can't figure out a use-case scenario for most of the options; but I was able to figure out that I only needed 2 commands (perhaps only 1?) to remaster my CUSTOMIZED DISTRO into an ISO: sudo eggs dad -h to create the template sudo eggs produce to create the actual ISO in the home directory, just like remastersys did! I was THRILLED to find that PenguinsEggs did EXACTLY what I hoped for and created an ISO, with Calamares installer, which I then dd'd to a USB device and booted from a test machine. PERFECT! Getting ready to install in a VM to verify that I've got an end-to-end solution with no surprises or hiccups, but Calamares is a mature installer and I can't imagine there will be a problem with that (hope I didn't just jinx the process by saying that out loud!). Once I verify in a VM, I'll install on a production machine (not my MAIN machine....not yet) to verify installation on metal. And then I'll start replacing the Debian 10 and Lubuntu 18.04 and 16.04 (16.04 are air-gapped) machines with my new Spiral-Debain12 remixes. 2 quirks I haven't resolved yet....which are of no consequence, but still bother my OCD tendencies....is that PenguinsEggs provides a long and convoluted name for the ISO. There must be a way to change that.....perhaps a switch in the "eggs produce" command....but I haven't figured it out yet. Once I do, I'll provide a more catchy name on the ISO. The 2nd is that PenguinsEggs provides desktop icons for the Calamares installer (very nice touch!) and an icon which is simply a desktop link to URL for PenguinsEggs webpage. I think MAYBE this is there because PenguinsEggs can be installed using a native Penguin installer called "krill", and the link to URL is for a user to learn how to install using "krill". But with Calamares present, it's not necessary and actually kind of confusing. But the desktop file is easily deleted. In fact, reading the PenguinsEggs manual, it seems that Calamares and PenguinsEggs do not get installed in a new installation; but it's still slightly confusing in a LiveSession. Stay tuned to find out if it resolves itself upon installation to metal. So, all of that to say to SpiralLinux1, "your base config of Spiral was an EXCELLENT base for me, and it was very easy to remix for MY PERFECT DISTRO....mostly appearance and software choices. And it seems that PenguinsEggs is a very viable option for ISO creation, and super easy to use." PenguinsEggs provided an ISO within about 10 minutes upon typing the commands in the CLI. It took longer for dd to copy the ISO to USB! FWIW.... But happy to answer any other questions, if you have any to ask! Thanks for Spiral Linux....it was MUCH easier to remaster Spiral than to remaster Debian Buster with Refracta! 2 Quote
raymac46 Posted August 14, 2023 Posted August 14, 2023 I guess you can really wear your Penguin Developer hat with pride after this. Well done, HJ! Quote
Hedon James Posted August 14, 2023 Author Posted August 14, 2023 5 hours ago, raymac46 said: I guess you can really wear your Penguin Developer hat with pride after this. Well done, HJ! Thanks, but I've done this before...several times actually. I was really good with remastersys, but then Fragedlic abandoned it. I started using Systemback, but then that got abandoned too. Then several folks starting forking remastersys, including PinguyBuilder and Refracta and some others. They've all had their quirks, and none were as good as remastersys. I've been looking for a solid replacement ever since. PenguinsEggs looks quite promising, except it's a CLI tool, rather than GUI. It's been a challenge. The developer seems to be Italian, so some of his directions and linquistics are a "little off" and sometimes hard to understand; on top of that, his terminology for "Eggs" is quite unusual and I'm having a hard time digesting the concepts, but starting to figure it out through much trial and error. If i can get to grips with PenguinsEggs, I think I'm going to like it a LOT! FWIW... Stay tuned for the final verdict! Quote
abarbarian Posted August 15, 2023 Posted August 15, 2023 14 hours ago, raymac46 said: I guess you can really wear your Penguin Developer hat with pride after this. Well done, HJ! Another vote for you wearing the Penguin Developer hat. Top job. 1 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 15, 2023 Author Posted August 15, 2023 (edited) Penguin Developer.....appreciate the kudos, but HAHAHA! Developers KNOW what they're doing, and engineer things to accommodate the task. I'm more of a Penguin Hacker.....I know just enough to poke around and just keep poking until I get what I want. Usually involving breakage, which then results in a troubleshooting repair session in ADDITION TO the original task. I think Abarbarian and I are kindred spirit Penguin Hackers....just figuring it out as we go along, with the occasional "oopsies" littering the path of our footsteps! Edited August 15, 2023 by Hedon James 2 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 15, 2023 Author Posted August 15, 2023 grrrrr.....I did jinx myself.... Was having some issues getting the remastered OS installed in a VM, but after some trial & error tinkering, I learned that I skipped a step in the process by using the wrong "flag" in the build process. So I fixed that, and in the process figured out how to change the name of the ISO (egg) produced, as well as change the name of user and password on the Live Session. Got everything fixed up, and installed just fine in a VM without any hitches.....as long as it is a UEFI installation! Installing to VM using a BIOS configuration causes Calamares to fail every single time at the grub config installation. I've looked at the error message; I've watched calamares in "debug" mode in the terminal; and it fails every single time on the last step....removing the EFI grub and installing the grub-pc packages. In troubleshooting efforts, I have removed the calamares module from PenguinsEggs and just installed the Debian module, and remastered THAT way. Same result. I note something called a "yaml" file, which is apparently a template of sorts, and I see that the EFI option is set to TRUE, and I can't help but wonder if that isn't the cause of things. But I don't want to change it, because then I suspect I'll have accomodated BIOS/MBR installs, but at the expense of UEFI/GPT installs. At this point, not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or stupid.....or if I've found a bug in PenguinsEggs? Inasmuch as I install using UEFI/GPT unless it just isn't an option, I'm inclined to just chalk this up to "no BIOS/MBR installations" for now. If I figure it out later, I'll address it and remaster it. If I can't figure it out....hopefully it won't ever affect me. I imagine nearly all computers in the past 10-15 years use UEFI implementations, so maybe I'm just spending WAY too much time trying to solve a problem that will exist so infrequently that it just isn't worth the time. Although if anyone else is familiar with Calamares troubleshooting.....I'm happy to listen to ideas. I've got the Calamares failure saved to a log for an educated eye to help resolve, LOL! I'll probably contact the PenguinsEggs developer also, and see what he suggests. FWIW.... In the meantime, if SpiralLinux1 still lurks on this forum and is curious to see what the remaster of his Spiral11.2 ISO turned into, let me know and I'll upload to my Google Drive and provide a link for download. Maybe he'll appreciate the morph....maybe he won't care. But if he's curious, happy to show him what happened.... Quote
raymac46 Posted August 15, 2023 Posted August 15, 2023 (edited) Edited August 15, 2023 by raymac46 Quote
securitybreach Posted August 15, 2023 Posted August 15, 2023 7 hours ago, Hedon James said: "oopsies" littering the path of our footsteps! Oopsies are how you learn 1 Quote
crp Posted August 18, 2023 Posted August 18, 2023 On 8/1/2022 at 9:43 PM, SpiralLinux1 said: Hi everyone, thanks for the friendly replies and opinions! Sorry for my slow response, it took quite a while for my account to be approved here and I don't frequently check the associated email address. Well, start checking that email more often! Does your setup allow for in place updates? 1 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 19, 2023 Author Posted August 19, 2023 On 8/15/2023 at 2:39 PM, Hedon James said: grrrrr.....I did jinx myself.... Was having some issues getting the remastered OS installed in a VM, but after some trial & error tinkering, I learned that I skipped a step in the process by using the wrong "flag" in the build process. So I fixed that, and in the process figured out how to change the name of the ISO (egg) produced, as well as change the name of user and password on the Live Session. Got everything fixed up, and installed just fine in a VM without any hitches.....as long as it is a UEFI installation! Installing to VM using a BIOS configuration causes Calamares to fail every single time at the grub config installation. I've looked at the error message; I've watched calamares in "debug" mode in the terminal; and it fails every single time on the last step....removing the EFI grub and installing the grub-pc packages. In troubleshooting efforts, I have removed the calamares module from PenguinsEggs and just installed the Debian module, and remastered THAT way. Same result. I note something called a "yaml" file, which is apparently a template of sorts, and I see that the EFI option is set to TRUE, and I can't help but wonder if that isn't the cause of things. But I don't want to change it, because then I suspect I'll have accomodated BIOS/MBR installs, but at the expense of UEFI/GPT installs. At this point, not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or stupid.....or if I've found a bug in PenguinsEggs? Inasmuch as I install using UEFI/GPT unless it just isn't an option, I'm inclined to just chalk this up to "no BIOS/MBR installations" for now. If I figure it out later, I'll address it and remaster it. If I can't figure it out....hopefully it won't ever affect me. I imagine nearly all computers in the past 10-15 years use UEFI implementations, so maybe I'm just spending WAY too much time trying to solve a problem that will exist so infrequently that it just isn't worth the time. Although if anyone else is familiar with Calamares troubleshooting.....I'm happy to listen to ideas. I've got the Calamares failure saved to a log for an educated eye to help resolve, LOL! I'll probably contact the PenguinsEggs developer also, and see what he suggests. FWIW.... In the meantime, if SpiralLinux1 still lurks on this forum and is curious to see what the remaster of his Spiral11.2 ISO turned into, let me know and I'll upload to my Google Drive and provide a link for download. Maybe he'll appreciate the morph....maybe he won't care. But if he's curious, happy to show him what happened.... I contacted the developer of PenguinsEggs (remastering software) to report that I had either found a bug, or that I was doing something wrong, despite following tutorial to the letter. I would be happy with either outcome....to educate me on what I was doing wrong, or to fix the bug. Long story short....developer duplicated my error MULTIPLE times....and then duplicated it on his own remasters! There was a bug in the code that only allowed Calamares to install packages from the Live-Media, ignoring distro repos during install; but then activating repos upon reboot into newly installed OS. No one was catching it, because folks tend to remaster distros on their own systems and then test/install on their own systems; and they tend to re-use their favorite partition scheme, whether UEFI/GPT or BIOS/MBR. And then there's OCD me, creating a distro on a UEFI/GPT scheme, with grub files for that scheme; with the last minute idea to test the install on one of those (now) rare BIOS/MBR only systems. Switching the installation scheme, Calamares tries to remove grub-efi-amd64 and install grub-pc in its place; but the PenguinsEggs "yolk" file directs Calamares to install the file from the Live-Media....and it FAILS spectacularly. It was a use-case the developer hadn't contemplated, but acknowledged was a problem. Thanked me for the bug report and is working on his code for an updated version of PenguinsEggs.....he believes he has it fixed, as it's working on his end, but has asked me to update my package to his latest version and go at it again, reporting back with my results. OF COURSE I'll do that! My confidence is high that he has solved the problem, but I'll have to carve out some time today to do that. He has jumped through hoops with his assistance, and attentiveness to the problem.....least I can do is reciprocate, in a timely manner! 13 hours ago, crp said: Well, start checking that email more often! Does your setup allow for in place updates? ^ as you quoted SpiralLinux1, it's obvious you were directing your responses to Spiral, but I can answer the 2nd question while we're waiting for his return. Spiral Linux is 100% Debian, but with allowances for proprietary firmware/binaries/blobs, OOTB. It's basically a slightly customized Debian, OOTB, by the same developer who created GeckoLinux. It appears that his goal is for Spiral to be to Debian, as Gecko is to OpenSuse. There are no additional customized softwares in Spiral (like MX), and no additional repositories enabled. You can add your own, but OOTB, it's 100% Debian repos only. So Spiral is a 100% Debian distro at its core, with some software/appearance/firmware customizations in its default configuration. As such, it is capable of everything Debian is capable of. Although honestly.....with Debian now allowing for non-free firmware in its repos, I'm not sure what the advantage of Spiral is now, other than a custom/themed Debian OOTB. But I started this project long before Debian voted on non-free, and I'm not sure the next Debian project leader won't revoke the non-free policies. So I'm a Spiral guy now. And with 100% Debian repos underneath, technically, Spiral IS Debian with a themed "skin", IMO. As to the in-place updates....I'm COUNTING on that. I made the switch from Lubuntu to Debian 10 when Buster came out. I am so tired of re-installing my 'Buntus every 2-4 years (Lubuntu LTS is 3-years, so after 3 I lose LXDE/LXQT support and after 5 I lose underlying base support). Multiply that by the small network in my home....a production desktop, a studio desktop, a server, 2 set top boxes, a laptop, and my wife's desktop & laptop....not to mention family & friends that I provide tech support for....and re-installation is a PAIN IN MY ASS! I specifically chose Debian based on MANY users in forums representing they have been upgrading their Debians "in place" for 10-15 years. That sounds like a DREAM to me. Spiral Linux is based on Debian v11.2. I had been waiting for Spiral 12, but then realized that the time to "test the upgrade theory" was BEFORE I had sunk dozens of hours into customizations & tweaks. So I upgraded Spiral in place to Debian 12 and everything went perfectly as planned. I had upgraded my 'Buntus in place before, but there were ALWAYS some quirks and after-effects that required time-sucking troubleshooting....removal/purging, re-installation, and continued monitoring. I learned quickly to just re-install 'Buntus. But the Spiral/Debian upgrade was smooth....and I continued to use the updated version without noticing ANY of the quirks/after-effects. So I feel confident in saying that Spiral allows for in-place updates, and even provides a tutorial on their website for how to do that. It was a HUGE selling point to me and gave me the needed confidence to invest my time in a heavily customized remix for MY personal distro, to be deployed across a small personal network of machines. If all goes according to plan, I will be replacing hardware in 10-15-20 years, and I'll deal with another remix at that time. Until then, I'll just upgrade in place.....I'm COUNTING on that! LOL! 3 Quote
raymac46 Posted August 19, 2023 Posted August 19, 2023 (edited) I have to admit you bring a unique point of view to this situation. Spend lots of time customizing, tweaking, bug squashing, remastering so that you can install once and then not worry about it for a decade. Edited August 19, 2023 by raymac46 1 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 20, 2023 Author Posted August 20, 2023 On 8/19/2023 at 10:56 AM, raymac46 said: I have to admit you bring a unique point of view to this situation. Spend lots of time customizing, tweaking, bug squashing, remastering so that you can install once and then not worry about it for a decade. When you put it that way, it sounds a little OCD crazy doesn't it? LOL! But here's the part you missed....once PER MACHINE! I have a small network at home including a production desktop, studio desktop, server, 2 set-top boxes, laptop, and the wifes desktop and laptop; PLUS a few random family & friends hardware. That's 9 installs MINIMUM. It's a PITA right now, but imagine re-installing every 2-4 +/- years and it's a good investment of my time to prevent future installs. At least that is the PLAN, LOL! 2 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 20, 2023 Author Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) And the developer of PenguinsEggs is at a loss. He found a bug, and fixed it, and we both verified it independently on Debian LXQT 12.1 distros; but NOT Spiral. There is something different in the Spiral base that causes failure when installing to a UEFI/BIOS install that is DIFFERENT than what it was created on. I remastered the vanilla Spiral 11.2 and it also failed, whereas Debian 11 & Debian 12 both succeed. Makes NO sense for a distro that is basically 100% Debian, with a different skin/theme. The developer has successfully remastered vanilla Spiral 11.2 LXQT, while he fails remastered my upgraded Spiral 12.1 customized version; and he fails with Spiral 11.2 XFCE. But Spiral Cinnamon also succeeds. Seems like the target is moving....can't isolate the variable. So I think I'm left with 2 options: leave my custom distro "as is", with understanding that it is UEFI/GPT installation only start from scratch with Debian12 LXQT and re-create all customizations Considering the dozens of hours I have already invested, I'm leaning towards the 1st option. Considering that BIOS/MBR schemes are a dying concept, I question how often this installation will be necessary? Seems that any motherboard in the past 10-15 years ships with UEFI. So maybe my OCD tendencies are aroused over a very minor problem? If i go with option #2, there's always a chance my customizations/removals/installations will re-introduce the offending problem, and I'm right back to where I am now; looking to resolve the issue. If I stick with option #1, there's always a chance the solution will reveal itself at a later date, as Penguins Eggs matures, and/or similar failures are discovered. There are literally DOZENS of successful remastered ISOs on the developer's project page, with Debian, Devuan, Ubuntu, Mint, and even Arch based distros. My luck to have chosen 1 of 2 bases that failed..... I think my best path forward is option #1, and hoping that we figure it out at a later date, and remaster for BIOS/MBR installs. Or that I figure out BIOS/MBR installs have gone the way that i386 packages have gone? Edited August 20, 2023 by Hedon James 1 Quote
raymac46 Posted August 20, 2023 Posted August 20, 2023 (edited) Well your remastered Spiral Linux would certainly fail for me since where I have Spiral installed is on my creakiest old Dell Inspiron 530 desktop that began life running Windows Vista. It is BIOS/MBR for sure. That said I have now upgraded Spiral Linux to Debian bookworm: ray@ray-inspiron530-basement:~$ inxi -Fxz System: Kernel: 6.1.0-11-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0 Desktop: LXQt v: 0.16.1 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm) Machine: Type: Desktop System: Dell product: Inspiron 530 v: N/A serial: <superuser required> Mobo: Dell model: 0RY007 serial: <superuser required> BIOS: Dell v: 1.0.18 date: 02/24/2009 CPU: Info: dual core model: Intel Core2 Duo E8400 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Penryn rev: A cache: L1: 128 KiB L2: 6 MiB Speed (MHz): avg: 1996 high: 1998 min/max: 1998/2997 cores: 1: 1998 2: 1995 bogomips: 11969 Flags: ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 ssse3 vmx Graphics: Device-1: NVIDIA GM206 [GeForce GTX 950] vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: nouveau v: kernel arch: Maxwell bus-ID: 01:00.0 temp: 25.0 C Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.20.11 driver: X: loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: nouveau gpu: nouveau resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz API: OpenGL v: 4.3 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: NV126 direct-render: Yes Audio: Device-1: Intel 82801I HD Audio vendor: Dell Inspiron 530 driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 Device-2: NVIDIA GM206 High Definition Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 01:00.1 API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api Server-1: PulseAudio v: 16.1 status: active Network: Device-1: Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network vendor: Dell Inspiron 530 driver: e1000e v: kernel port: ff00 bus-ID: 00:19.0 IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter> Device-2: Realtek RTL8188EUS 802.11n Wireless Network Adapter type: USB driver: r8188eu bus-ID: 4-3:2 IF: wlxf4f26d09d17d state: up mac: <filter> RAID: Hardware-1: Intel SATA Controller [RAID mode] driver: ahci v: 3.0 bus-ID: 00:1f.2 Drives: Local Storage: total: 223.57 GiB used: 17.48 GiB (7.8%) ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: A-Data model: SU635 size: 223.57 GiB Partition: ID-1: / size: 223.57 GiB used: 17.48 GiB (7.8%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sda1 ID-2: /home size: 223.57 GiB used: 17.48 GiB (7.8%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sda1 ID-3: /tmp size: 223.57 GiB used: 17.48 GiB (7.8%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sda1 ID-4: /var/log size: 223.57 GiB used: 17.48 GiB (7.8%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sda1 Swap: ID-1: swap-1 type: zram size: 7.37 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) dev: /dev/zram0 Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 37.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: nouveau temp: 25.0 C Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: nouveau fan: 1266 Info: Processes: 214 Uptime: 20m Memory: 7.75 GiB used: 1.63 GiB (21.1%) Init: systemd target: graphical (5) Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 Packages: 1726 Shell: Bash v: 5.2.15 inxi: 3.3.26 ray@ray-inspiron530-basement:~$ Took a while because the download was massive and the wifi USB connection I have is very S-L-O-W. Once I got all the files it went OK because this old desktop does have a cheap SSD and the upgraded Core 2 Duo CPU is pretty sprightly for its age. Edited August 20, 2023 by raymac46 1 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 20, 2023 Author Posted August 20, 2023 1 hour ago, raymac46 said: Well your remastered Spiral Linux would certainly fail for me since where I have Spiral installed is on my creakiest old Dell Inspiron 630 desktop that began life running Windows Vista. It is BIOS/MBR for sure. That said I have now upgraded Spiral Linux to Debian bookworm: ray@ray-inspiron530-basement:~$ inxi -Fxz System: Kernel: 6.1.0-11-amd64 arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 12.2.0 Desktop: LXQt v: 0.16.1 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm) Machine: Type: Desktop System: Dell product: Inspiron 530 v: N/A serial: <superuser required> Mobo: Dell model: 0RY007 serial: <superuser required> BIOS: Dell v: 1.0.18 date: 02/24/2009 CPU: Info: dual core model: Intel Core2 Duo E8400 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Penryn rev: A cache: L1: 128 KiB L2: 6 MiB Speed (MHz): avg: 1996 high: 1998 min/max: 1998/2997 cores: 1: 1998 2: 1995 bogomips: 11969 Flags: ht lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 ssse3 vmx Graphics: Device-1: NVIDIA GM206 [GeForce GTX 950] vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: nouveau v: kernel arch: Maxwell bus-ID: 01:00.0 temp: 25.0 C Display: x11 server: X.Org v: 1.20.11 driver: X: loaded: modesetting unloaded: fbdev,vesa dri: nouveau gpu: nouveau resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz API: OpenGL v: 4.3 Mesa 22.3.6 renderer: NV126 direct-render: Yes Audio: Device-1: Intel 82801I HD Audio vendor: Dell Inspiron 530 driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 00:1b.0 Device-2: NVIDIA GM206 High Definition Audio vendor: Micro-Star MSI driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus-ID: 01:00.1 API: ALSA v: k6.1.0-11-amd64 status: kernel-api Server-1: PulseAudio v: 16.1 status: active Network: Device-1: Intel 82562V-2 10/100 Network vendor: Dell Inspiron 530 driver: e1000e v: kernel port: ff00 bus-ID: 00:19.0 IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter> Device-2: Realtek RTL8188EUS 802.11n Wireless Network Adapter type: USB driver: r8188eu bus-ID: 4-3:2 IF: wlxf4f26d09d17d state: up mac: <filter> RAID: Hardware-1: Intel SATA Controller [RAID mode] driver: ahci v: 3.0 bus-ID: 00:1f.2 Drives: Local Storage: total: 223.57 GiB used: 17.48 GiB (7.8%) ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: A-Data model: SU635 size: 223.57 GiB Partition: ID-1: / size: 223.57 GiB used: 17.48 GiB (7.8%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sda1 ID-2: /home size: 223.57 GiB used: 17.48 GiB (7.8%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sda1 ID-3: /tmp size: 223.57 GiB used: 17.48 GiB (7.8%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sda1 ID-4: /var/log size: 223.57 GiB used: 17.48 GiB (7.8%) fs: btrfs dev: /dev/sda1 Swap: ID-1: swap-1 type: zram size: 7.37 GiB used: 0 KiB (0.0%) dev: /dev/zram0 Sensors: System Temperatures: cpu: 37.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: nouveau temp: 25.0 C Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A gpu: nouveau fan: 1266 Info: Processes: 214 Uptime: 20m Memory: 7.75 GiB used: 1.63 GiB (21.1%) Init: systemd target: graphical (5) Compilers: gcc: 12.2.0 Packages: 1726 Shell: Bash v: 5.2.15 inxi: 3.3.26 ray@ray-inspiron530-basement:~$ Took a while because the download was massive and the wifi USB connection I have is very S-L-O-W. Once I got all the files it went OK because this old desktop does have a cheap SSD and the upgraded Core 2 Duo CPU is pretty sprightly for its age. I do like Spiral. A "slimmer" distro than Debian LXQT, with a sensible default configuration. I like it a LOT. I'd like it even better if I could figure out why Spiral remasters fail in a way that the mother Debian remasters do not. Very perplexing. I also upgraded by Spiral 11.2 (the default download) to Spiral 12.1 before I started customizing. Piece of cake and went VERY smoothly! If future upgrades work as well as this one, I'm VERY optimistic about my long-term plans! LOL! 1 Quote
raymac46 Posted August 20, 2023 Posted August 20, 2023 Would it be worth contacting the Spiral Linux guy who posted here to see if he can offer some additional insight? It's not as if there is some customized SL repo that is causing the problem. 1 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 20, 2023 Author Posted August 20, 2023 3 hours ago, raymac46 said: Well your remastered Spiral Linux would certainly fail for me since where I have Spiral installed is on my creakiest old Dell Inspiron 530 desktop that began life running Windows Vista. It is BIOS/MBR for sure. That said I have now upgraded Spiral Linux to Debian bookworm. Not so fast....I found a workaround to install on BIOS/MBR systems. A PITA....but a viable working solution for what I expect to be a rare use-case scenario for me. I'll have to do it for my family & friends, but I have to do their installations anyway, so it's not a huge deal for me. Just a PITA. For folks like us, not as big of a deal. If the installation needs to be on a BIOS/MBR system, the Live-Media boots just fine. But to install, we need to use the CLI: sudo eggs install -u will bring up an Ncurses-style installation summary for an "unattended access" with username=artisan and password=evolution. this is hardcoded in the developers options and can't be changed(for now). I changed them while tinkering, and the system installs and boots, but no way to log in, as there are no users to login. developer is aware of the issue and it's on his bug list....just haven't resolved it yet. system will install, reboot, and then login as "artisan" with "password". once logged in as artisan, create YOURSELF as a new user, with sudo, users, and any other relevant groups of your choosing. you'll also be prompted for YOUR USER password. With YOUR user and password created, you can logout, log back in as YOU and verify your sudo capabilities. Once verified, delete the user "artisan". Presto....a working system, with YOU as the user, on a BIOS/MBR formatted partition scheme. Not an ideal process, but a viable workaround I can live with until the solution reveals itself. This whole process has probably seemed like a cluster you-know-what, from the outside looking in. But I'm here to sing the praises of Penguins Eggs....remaster your system EXACTLY as it is on your current hardware, for homogeneous re-installation on other devices. The developer has it working on Debian, Ubuntu, Mint, Devuan, and some Arch derivatives. I'm very much a minority on the fringe with my issues (anyone who knows me in the real world would roll their eyes and say "there's a shock" with the sarcasm just dripping off their words.) And to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure this is a PenguinsEggs issue....it seems to be a Calamares issue, IMO....although perhaps it is a Calamares issue caused by a PenguinsEggs configuration problem. I don't know....beyond my pay grade. Anyone interested in pursuing the interest of remastering their system can check out Penguins Eggs here: https://penguins-eggs.net/ The users guide is in Italian, but there's a link right on the page to translate to your language of choice. To see a list of his SUCCESSFUL remasters, which he refers to as "egg-of-distro", there's a link to ISOs on the above page. Also found here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/penguins-eggs/files/ISOS/ I wish this developer MUCH success. With Remastersys, Systemback going dark, and other tools like Refracta having their own quirks (a tool of systemd-free Devuan & Refracta distros), the linux ecosystem has a serious void of tools like this for the average user. Arch & Manjaro have their own ISO creators, which looks a lot like Debian-Live....but these are geared more towards developers than average users, IMO. I put myself in the latter category. 1 Quote
raymac46 Posted August 20, 2023 Posted August 20, 2023 Well, one thing I can say - you keep after it until you find some way to succeed. All the best with your installations for friends and family. 1 Quote
abarbarian Posted August 21, 2023 Posted August 21, 2023 11 hours ago, Hedon James said: Not so fast....I found a workaround to install on BIOS/MBR systems. Well done you. I always thought that running a penguin should enable you to customise it to suit yourself and you are a living demonstration of that ideal. I like that there is a basic build starter that you can use to make your very own personalised os in addition to the preset flavours. Penguin Eggs is a great name for the remastering tool very old school naming and super humorous. Only strange thing I can see about the project is why on earth does it still use grub ? I counted twelve questions asking for help in regard to grub in the first four pages of the forum section at the site. As systemd is used why not use one of the many modern much easier to set up and use bootloaders ? 1 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 21, 2023 Author Posted August 21, 2023 2 hours ago, abarbarian said: Well done you. I always thought that running a penguin should enable you to customise it to suit yourself and you are a living demonstration of that ideal. I like that there is a basic build starter that you can use to make your very own personalised os in addition to the preset flavours. Penguin Eggs is a great name for the remastering tool very old school naming and super humorous. Only strange thing I can see about the project is why on earth does it still use grub ? I counted twelve questions asking for help in regard to grub in the first four pages of the forum section at the site. As systemd is used why not use one of the many modern much easier to set up and use bootloaders ? That's a good question for the developer, but I imagine the answer is because Calamares uses GRUB for installations. When chaining tools together, you're bound to that tool's way of doing something....or you'd use a different tool, or create your own. I imagine Calamares uses GRUB because it's a "universal" tool. But you ask a very interesting question! If I were to use rEFInd to boot my machine, and PenguinsEggs cloned my system, I imagine Calamares would NOT work to install my remastered rEFInd system? Maybe that is the reason he has created Krill, an Ncurses-style installer invoked from the CLI, which is what appears to be happening with "sudo eggs install -u". Interesting question Abarb! Quote
abarbarian Posted August 21, 2023 Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Hedon James said: That's a good question for the developer, but I imagine the answer is because Calamares uses GRUB for installations. When chaining tools together, you're bound to that tool's way of doing something....or you'd use a different tool, or create your own. I imagine Calamares uses GRUB because it's a "universal" tool. But you ask a very interesting question! If I were to use rEFInd to boot my machine, and PenguinsEggs cloned my system, I imagine Calamares would NOT work to install my remastered rEFInd system? Maybe that is the reason he has created Krill, an Ncurses-style installer invoked from the CLI, which is what appears to be happening with "sudo eggs install -u". Interesting question Abarb! As this article shows, right at the bottom , Calamares can use a variety of bootloaders. Also Calamares can set up which systemd services to use and systemd has its own boot service and there is efistub too just to mention a couple. https://habr.com/en/articles/654755/ Also, https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Arch_boot_process#Boot_loader Quote The Unified Extensible Firmware Interface has support for reading both the partition table as well as file systems. UEFI does not launch any boot code from the Master Boot Record (MBR) whether it exists or not, instead booting relies on boot entries in the NVRAM. The UEFI specification mandates support for the FAT12, FAT16, and FAT32 file systems (see UEFI specification version 2.10, section 13.3.1.1), but any conformant vendor can optionally add support for additional file systems; for example, HFS+ or APFS in some Apple's firmwares. UEFI implementations also support ISO-9660 for optical discs. UEFI launches EFI applications, e.g. boot loaders, boot managers, UEFI shell, etc. These applications are usually stored as files in the EFI system partition. Each vendor can store its files in the EFI system partition under the /EFI/vendor_name directory. The applications can be launched by adding a boot entry to the NVRAM or from the UEFI shell. The UEFI specification has support for legacy BIOS booting with its Compatibility Support Module (CSM). If CSM is enabled in the UEFI, the UEFI will generate CSM boot entries for all drives. If a CSM boot entry is chosen to be booted from, the UEFI's CSM will attempt to boot from the drive's MBR bootstrap code. As UEFI supports different file systems and old BIOS there is no real reason to use grub anymore. I am not a developer and each developer has the freedom to implement any setup they like but it puzzles me as to why folk keep on with grub. Edited August 21, 2023 by abarbarian 1 1 Quote
raymac46 Posted August 21, 2023 Posted August 21, 2023 (edited) Looks to me that there are only a few differences between Spiral Linux and plain ole vanilla Debian. btrfs - that seems to work OK with a BIOS/MBR install. a couple of scripts written by Spiral Linux developer to assist with Snapper backup. I don't know if either of those differences might be causing Calamares to choke on a BIOS/MBR install. Far from it for me to speculate. One thing I have done in my own Spiral Linux install is disable a couple of repos that provide updates to VirtualBox support. I'll never in a million years run a VM on a 15 year old Core Duo based desktop. Edited August 22, 2023 by raymac46 2 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 22, 2023 Author Posted August 22, 2023 22 hours ago, raymac46 said: Looks to me that there are only a few differences between Spiral Linux and plain ole vanilla Debian. btrfs - that seems to work OK with a BIOS/MBR install. a couple of scripts written by Spiral Linux developer to assist with Snapper backup. I don't know if either of those differences might be causing Calamares to choke on a BIOS/MBR install. Far from it for me to speculate. One thing I have done in my own Spiral Linux install is disable a couple of repos that provide updates to VirtualBox support. I'll never in a million years run a VM on a 15 year old Core Duo based desktop. Thanks for that Ray! I missed both of those differences, because I use neither one. They're both geared toward system backups, like TimeShift, BackInTime, etc... And maybe it's time I reconsidered my backup solutions/strategies, but they're working fine for me, and I'm reluctant to mess with a winning strategy for backups, LOL! Ironically, my remastered distro on an ISO or a Live-Media is part of my SYSTEM backup strategy. I'm fundamentally uncomfortable with backing up my system to the same disk my OS resides on. That seems very risky to me. If something unforseen cooks that disk, you've lost your OS AND your backups! I learned my lesson about diligent backups about 30 years ago. I worked in a basement/lower level office that experienced a 500-year flood event. The water level came up to desk height, PLUS an inch. Guess where my laptop was? Laptop was destroyed, and all my 3.5" floppies in the bottom desk drawer. I was pleasantly surprised to learn the insurance company would replace the computer (a state of the art Windows 3.1 $5,000 laptop at time of purchase!), but all my data was gone....as well as my Lotus123 spreadsheets that I had personally created and continued developing, and ALL my Lotus AmiPro word documents, including real estate contracts. GONE.... That was the moment I realized the importance of backing up your data, AND keeping it physically separated from your machine so they aren't simultaneously exposed to the same jeopardy. For the longest time, I backed up files to floppy and took them home with me. Later, I added an annual backup to CD as an "archive". Later still....annual thumbdrives, which eventually became external drives with annual folders. Now, I back up my data to a separate hard drive, then I back up my backups to a fire-rated and waterproof usb enclosure on a different machine in my home network. I now have data archived with file extensions that no one recognizes. Who remembers that *.123 files are Lotus spreadsheets; who remembers that *.ami files are word documents? How about that *.bmp files are bitmap images and *.dsc are photos? I'm a little fuzzy on some of them, but you get the picture. Over the years, those files have been converted to newer formats, as needed, so there was an evolution. But I know I have files from my last real estate syndication deal, offering memorandum, and prospectus with unusual file association extensions. I'm pretty sure some of them are probably *.rtf files! LOL! But I've digressed again (it's what we do here, LOL!). At some point I realized the lengths I went to backup & preserve data files, but realized I wasn't doing much with the OS. That's because the OS got replaced with the machine, so no lesson learned there. But when I got into Linux, you installed your OS alongside, or in place of the pre-installed OS. What if THAT needed replaced? I already had a LiveCD (later, a LiveUSB) for installation, I could just re-install from scratch, and then update. Problem solved! But 13-15 years later, my systems are pretty customized, because my OS is perfect for ME and my tastes generally aren't mainstream. Show me a distro that has a strong community and broad user-base for troubleshooting (like Debian), very stable with incremental updates (no rolling releases), lightweight desktop environment with long-term prospects (like LXQT), with a Fluxbox window manager (or PekWM...that will work for me too!), and ability to customize a right-click/keybind desktop menu. Not easily found, even harder to duplicate. That's why I spend so much time & effort getting my system EXACTLY how I want it, and then remastering to an ISO for Live-Media installation. In addition to homogeneous deployment across multiple devices in my home network and friends/family tech support, it's also my OS BACKUP SOLUTION! It's on a separate media, stored separate from my main machine. And while the physical media may be at-risk for fire & flood, I have the ISO backed up in my data, and also in that fire-rated and waterproof usb device. Easily recreated on a new Live-Media, if required! Which brings me full-circle to the PenguinsEggs discussion. PE will dove-tail with my long-term "upgrade-in-place" strategy. 5 years from now, I will have to upgrade Debian 12 to 13; and then again from 13 to 14, just to be "current". I plan on firing up PenguinsEggs and remastering the upgraded-in-place Debian OS, with software selections and customizations already having been made, including additional years of tweaking. And just like that....a new backup created for my fully customized OS, in case the unthinkable does indeed happen. And I don't know if anyone else's life experiences are anything like mine....but in my experience, I prepare for all the contingencies I can think of, which ensures they won't occur. No worries though....it's better to have a solution ready, that you don't need; than it is to need a solution you don't have. If that's what it takes, that's what I'll do... 1 Quote
raymac46 Posted August 22, 2023 Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) I do understand your need for a customized system and a backup protocol given how critical all this stuff is to your profession. In my own case being long retired and in my late 70s I have different needs. I do have backups (at least 5) of my photos and documents but I don't depend on them for my daily bread. It would be bad if I did lose stuff like this: A photo of my great grandmother, her daughters and my uncle taken around 1910. Not many of those photos left I'm afraid. None of the subjects are left for sure. Edited August 25, 2023 by raymac46 3 Quote
Hedon James Posted August 23, 2023 Author Posted August 23, 2023 21 hours ago, raymac46 said: I do understand your beed for a customized system and a backup protocol given how critical all this stuff is to your profession. In my own case being long retired and in my late 70s I have different needs. I do have backups (at least 5) of my photos and documents but I don't depend on them for my daily bread. It would be bad if I did lose stuff like this: This is what I LOVE about Linux. One size does NOT fit all, and Linux doesn't try to make it that way! I can do what I need to do, for ME; and you can do what you need, for YOU; and neither of us is missing out on anything because of the other person's needs. I also love that I can TRY your way, or Abarb's way, or SB's way, or Sunrat's way.....but with no commitment or consequence if it isn't for me. And nothing but open arms, guidance & assistance if I decide THAT way is better and I want to make it MY way also. Occasionally, a curt "Read The Fine Manual" reply....but not here at BATL. At BATL, we all operate under the knowledge that "once upon a time, I didn't know this either.....I'm going to provide the instruction that I WISH I had gotten when I first learned about ________________." And that's what i LOVE about BATL! Carry on! 2 2 Quote
raymac46 Posted August 23, 2023 Posted August 23, 2023 Yes it's always been my experience with this forum that nobody criticizes other members for their choices or activities, but rather people are always ready to help or explain how one can solve their problem. Quote
securitybreach Posted August 23, 2023 Posted August 23, 2023 Yeah, well Bruno gave us a great example on helping others and never directing them just to documentation. As he once said, We try to avoid the word "newbie", it does no justice to the efforts we, also the beginners, put in to learn a new operating system. I think the wish to learn Linux shows a brave attitude and deserves a better qualification. --Bruno 2 Quote
wa4chq Posted August 24, 2023 Posted August 24, 2023 (edited) On 8/22/2023 at 10:44 AM, raymac46 said: I do understand your beed for a customized system and a backup protocol given how critical all this stuff is to your profession. In my own case being long retired and in my late 70s I have different needs. I do have backups (at least 5) of my photos and documents but I don't depend on them for my daily bread. It would be bad if I did lose stuff like this: A photo of my great grandmother, her daughters and my uncle taken around 1910. Not many of those photos left I'm afraid. None of the subjects are left for sure. What a great photo! Thanks for sharing it.... I visited with my folks yesterday. My sister and older bro were also there. We were talking about dads family....dad was born in the UK and put up for adoption. Raised by a beautiful and loving mother and dad. My sister has been doing a lot of research trying to find out who his real father was...we know about his real mom. We were looking at some old photos my sister Pat found through the Ancestry site...it's all very interesting. I was curious about the photo you posted, wondering where it might have been taken. I see from your bio you are up in Ontario...was the photo of the lovely ladies and uncle taken in Canada? Edited August 24, 2023 by wa4chq Quote
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