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Window Manager Weirdness


raymac46
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42 minutes ago, Hedon James said:

i did, but preferred Spectacle.  I think Flameshot was a beta at the time, so I'm willing to reconsider.  Can't remember though....is Flameshot Qt or GTK?  I'd prefer to stay in the QT ecosystem if at all possible.  But I heard a new developer picked up the abandoned Shutter project, and if he maintains it without removing features, I'd absolutely put that GTK app on my QT distro!  LOL!

 

Flameshot is a different beast to Spectacle. Lots of editing features with which you can mould the screenshot before saving. Pretty sure it's Qt.

I mainly use scrot anyway.

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Hedon James
9 minutes ago, sunrat said:

 

Flameshot is a different beast to Spectacle. Lots of editing features with which you can mould the screenshot before saving. Pretty sure it's Qt.

I mainly use scrot anyway.

Might have to look at Flameshot again.  99% of my screenshots are 2 standardized sizes for my reports, so that's a killer feature to remember sizes.  Saving to jpg is quite handy too.  Shutter was just click to copy, then paste; or save to jpg.  Spectacle remembers the last size and does the click to copy just fine; but it defaults to png format and saving to jpg is buggy because even if you choose "save as jpg" the extension is still png, so you have to manually type the *.jpg extension in the filename or my software thinks it's a png, which causes other issues.  Fire up the GIMP and fix it, but that's a PITA.  Saving to specified websites (like imgur) is nice, but happens so rarely it isn't really a criteria.  But all other necessities being equal, it could tip the scales.

 

Spectacle is okay.  I'm making it work.  But Shutter was better.  I'll look at Flameshot again and see if newer versions have remedied whatever I didn't like earlier.

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securitybreach
15 minutes ago, saturnian said:

Is it possible to configure LXQt so that a right-click on the desktop brings up the LXQt applications menu?

 

If you used openbox as the WM.

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Openbox is the WM here, but a right-click on the desktop doesn't bring up the LXQt applications menu. I remember that with LXDE (with Openbox as the WM), a right-click would bring up the Openbox menu. I don't see even that happening with LXQt, but I'd want to bring up the LXQt menu, not the Openbox menu.

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Hedon James
6 hours ago, saturnian said:

Openbox is the WM here, but a right-click on the desktop doesn't bring up the LXQt applications menu. I remember that with LXDE (with Openbox as the WM), a right-click would bring up the Openbox menu. I don't see even that happening with LXQt, but I'd want to bring up the LXQt menu, not the Openbox menu.

Far as I know, LXQt menu is not an option.  LXQt devs recommend another menu program, such as jgmenu.  jgmenu can be configured to resemble LXQt menu appearance & functionality.  BunsenLabs is an excellent forum for jgmenu info....the jgmenu developer "malm" (johann malm) hangs out there and interacts with other jgmenu users.

 

As for the right-click menu issue....ironically, after the alternative menu recommendation was made, the LXQt devs removed the option to "show Window Manager actions".  Their reasoning was that the legacy code in PCManFM that provided this function was "messy & inelegant".  I pointed out the LXQt tenet of modularity, especially as relates to WMs and reminded them that most folks who use WMs like Openbox (quite popular in LXQt), Fluxbox, PekWM, etc... do so because of their ability to provide highly customized and personalized menus and that, in fact, many users have spent MANY hours doing exactly that.....creating the perfect menus; and that removing that feature effectively precluded those users from LXQt by neutering one of the primary reasons users choose those WMs.  I implored them to restore the functionality, and clean up code if elegance was the goal, rather than go the Gnome route and start removing features in the name of progress.  Apparently, invoking the Gnome comparison offended the LXQt dev who truncated that functionality and a small flame war ensued, wherein the ultimate resolution was that I was free to submit code for the desired function and he would consider the patch if it met their standards.  So that's how it happened, but I digress...

 

I think LXQt 0.14 was the last version to allow it.  I have it on my Buster installation, but lost it on my Arch, Manjaro, & Lubuntu VMs.  You can restore the functionality by going to LXQt Config Center>Session Settings>Basic Settings and de-selecting the "Desktop" checkbox and restarting (for permanent change), or clicking the "stop" button for LXQt to stop managing the desktop.  This will restore the right click WM root menu, but you will also lose wallpaper and desktop icon management.

 

Alternatively, in addition to right-click invocation, I have my WM menus tied to an "alt-m" keybinding, and you can do the same with jgmenu. 

 

In conclusion, I think your options are to disallow LXQt from managing the desktop (and installing Nitrogen, feh, or similar wallpaper manager; and idesk or similar icon management, if desired, to replace those functionalities); or to use a keybinding for WM menue; or to install jgmenu and configure like LXQt menu, with right click and/or keybind.  But no options for LXQt menu itself.  FWIW...

 

Edit:  you can add a keybinding for the LXQt menu, but it only appears where the menu button is located.....it's not floating.  To add a keybinding, right click the menu button, choose "configure application menu", choose "click button to record shortcut", and you have 10 seconds (counted down in the button) to choose your keybinding.  That's the closest you can get to a right-click LXQt menu in Buster version 0.14.  Not sure about newer versions....haven't played with them.  I'm focused on the jgmenu options for MY future preferences.  Once I figure it out, I'll go back to the LXQt forum and share the recipe for other *Box WM users, who are just as irritated as me with the removal of that right-click menu feature and the outright refusal to reconsider putting it back until an "elegant" solution can be found.

Edited by Hedon James
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Wow. Having read through the above with a basic appreciation of the tasks at hand, I am grateful that I don't care about a right click menu at all. I have traditionally used right click for display management.

If right click were an important part of my workflow I'd junk LXQt and polish up Openbox with a panel and a few icons. An alternative is the venerable Window Maker which takes right click menus to a whole 'nother level. My admiration goes out to you Configurators.

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I read some of you guys say how KDE has too many configuration options but then read a thread like this and wonder... I'm sticking with KDE thanks!

I documented my latest Debian Bullseye music production setup at Linux Musicians forum and subsequently followed it to replicate another install, took maybe an hour for the full setup. You can view it at https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=22793

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Hedon James
1 minute ago, raymac46 said:

Wow. Having read through the above with a basic appreciation of the tasks at hand, I am grateful that I don't care about a right click menu at all. I have traditionally used right click for display management.

If right click were an important part of my workflow I'd junk LXQt and polish up Openbox with a panel and a few icons. An alternative is the venerable Window Maker which takes right click menus to a whole 'nother level. My admiration goes out to you Configurators.

It's not really that difficult.  Recognize that many, if not MOST, users of those WMs choose those WMs because of the customization of the root menus....they're not happy with other options available, and those WMs provide the opportunity to mold a menu into EXACTLY what the user wants it to be.  It isn't a nice, neat bonus feature for users of those WMs, it is the "raison d'etre" for choosing those WMs.  If you take away their (usually) heavily customized menus, you're effectively running them off with a "we don't care about you" message.  Either I failed to effectively communicate that message to the LXQt devs, or the LXQt devs simply don't care.  Inasmuch as xfwm4 is the WM shipped by default, I strongly suspect the latter.  That's fine, it's their choice....but I don't think you get to pitch yourself on the concept of modularity, when you've effectively crippled the "raison d'etre" for the overwhelming majority of users of one of the most important components of your desktop.  LXQt is just a homogenous "skin" over a WM, with a few bells and whistles.

 

As much as I like LXQt, I have a fundamental philosophical difference with them on this.  If I can't resolve my issue(s) with the right click menu, I WILL revert to a naked *Box session and autostart the LX components I want to "skin" my desktop.  The WM is my critical component.....not the LXQt window dressing.  FWIW...

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We agree on a lot of stuff but here I think we diverge. I doubt I am ever going to want to customize a menu - as I don't like menus all that much to begin with! My reason for using LXQt is to get a sort of "Cinnamon Light," and it does that very well. LXQt makes it easy for me to add a theme or two and my own desktop background. It's a lot easier than working from the bottom up with a Window Manager. Horses for courses I guess.

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Hedon James

No worries Ray....we're not supposed to agree on everything.  But I do agree with what you said there ^.  LOL!

 

FWIW....menus weren't even on my radar until I stumbled onto Fluxbox, courtesy of Saturnian.  I just started tinkering, for the sake of tinkering (i think you're a tinkerer too?!) and it hit me....this is GENIUS....a better workflow....less clicks.  That's what started it for me.  But not for everyone.  and that's okay too!

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Oh, I am a tinkerer all right. I had fun playing around with Openbox, picom, Window Maker. But in the long run I just come back to the familiar - Cinnamon, Xfce, LXQt with XWFM4. I had to tinker with GNOME to get what I wanted but that is an exception.

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securitybreach
5 hours ago, raymac46 said:

We agree on a lot of stuff but here I think we diverge. I doubt I am ever going to want to customize a menu - as I don't like menus all that much to begin with! My reason for using LXQt is to get a sort of "Cinnamon Light," and it does that very well. LXQt makes it easy for me to add a theme or two and my own desktop background. It's a lot easier than working from the bottom up with a Window Manager. Horses for courses I guess.

 

Meh, who needs menus when I can hit alt-p to launch rofi and type the application to open. BTW you can add scripts and all kinds of other things like ssh connections, window switching etc to Rofi. I just use the launcher part of it though.  https://github.com/davatorium/rofi

 

TAwZQ83.png

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After more tinkering, I'm ok with the LXQt setup I've got in Bullseye. I managed to fix a couple of the theme-related issues that were bugging me. I again switched to xfwm4 for a bit but changed back to Openbox. And I'm sticking with the default applications menu. I'm using a good combination of icons on the panel, so I don't actually use the menu that often, anyway. lxqt-panel is excellent, IMO.

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9 hours ago, securitybreach said:

 

Meh, who needs menus when I can hit alt-p to launch rofi and type the application to open. BTW you can add scripts and all kinds of other things like ssh connections, window switching etc to Rofi. I just use the launcher part of it though.  https://github.com/davatorium/rofi

 

 

I'm trying to train myself to use Krunner in Plasma, definitely faster than menus. Hit Alt-F2 or Alt-Space and type the first few letters of what you wish to launch, plus a plethora of other functions.

This guide shows some of its functions - https://userbase.kde.org/Plasma/Krunner

We don't need no steenkin' menus! 🙃

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22 hours ago, Hedon James said:

Recognize that many, if not MOST, users of those WMs choose those WMs because of the customization of the root menus..

 

Yeah your right there as in "most users". This one could care less about menus or about hitting "Alt + whatever " then "Typing" . An as fer training yerself to do stuff like that well you must be barkin.

Whats wrong wiv jus moving the mouse over a dock app and clicking. Seem like the simplest way to open an app to me.  😜

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Hedon James
3 minutes ago, abarbarian said:

 

Yeah your right there as in "most users". This one could care less about menus or about hitting "Alt + whatever " then "Typing" . An as fer training yerself to do stuff like that well you must be barkin.

Whats wrong wiv jus moving the mouse over a dock app and clicking. Seem like the simplest way to open an app to me.  😜

nothing wrong with that.  as for me, i think the simplest way is for my hands to never leave the keyboard....to use the mouse as infrequently as possible.  less motion, less clicks, etc....  just a personal preference.  I remember when laptops had that "intellipoint mouse" between the g & h keys on keyboards....the pencil eraser mouse.  I miss that!

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05_Lenovo_Thinkpad_X230_35313302.jpg

28 minutes ago, Hedon James said:

I remember when laptops had that "intellipoint mouse" between the g & h keys on keyboards....the pencil eraser mouse.  I miss that!

 

Is that the same thing as on the ThinkPads ?

 

😎

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30 minutes ago, Hedon James said:

nothing wrong with that.  as for me, i think the simplest way is for my hands to never leave the keyboard....to use the mouse as infrequently as possible.  less motion, less clicks, etc....  just a personal preference.  I remember when laptops had that "intellipoint mouse" between the g & h keys on keyboards....the pencil eraser mouse.  I miss that!

 

I like having multiple ways of starting apps. Menus, icons on a panel, an app launcher, keyboard shortcuts... I think it's good to have all of those available.

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I'm reading this on a laptop and unless I relocate it I can't even *reach* the keyboard. All I need is a mouse and a scroll wheel. Isn't it great that we all have choices? 

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securitybreach
3 hours ago, Hedon James said:

  I remember when laptops had that "intellipoint mouse" between the g & h keys on keyboards....the pencil eraser mouse.  I miss that!

 

That was mostly a IBM Thinkpad thing but it comes on the latter Lenovo Thinkpads and some HP Laptops as well. HP doesn't color them though so the nub is black only.

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The LXQt fans here may have seen this already: "Release LXQt 0.17.0" - https://lxqt-project.org/release/2021/04/16/lxqt-0-17-0/

 

I see that 0.17 is in community-testing in Arch. Lol, and I had just removed LXQt from Arch! I still have the older release in Debian. The release announcement for 0.17 mentions that they're working towards 1.0.0. That'll be fun to play around with, one day!

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Hedon James
On 4/17/2021 at 8:15 AM, abarbarian said:

05_Lenovo_Thinkpad_X230_35313302.jpg

 

Is that the same thing as on the ThinkPads ?

 

😎

YES!!!  Didn't know they were still available?  Awesome find!

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Hedon James
On 4/17/2021 at 10:54 AM, securitybreach said:

 

That was mostly a IBM Thinkpad thing but it comes on the latter Lenovo Thinkpads and some HP Laptops as well. HP doesn't color them though so the nub is black only.

Toshiba used to have them.  I used Toshiba laptops back in the mid-late 90's and early 00s.  Win95, 98, ME & XP eras.  Loved the keyboard pointer.  Best of both worlds...can't believe it didn't catch on and dominant.

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Hedon James
1 hour ago, securitybreach said:

I was never a fan of them personally but some people swore by them.

Yes, that's me.  I'm some people.  😜

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I've been experimenting with Awesome wm in my Debian Bullseye install on Virtualbox. It seems to offer a lot by default - right click menu, ability to have either tiled or floating windows, a panel and taskbar, mouse or keyboard operation.

Its config file is scary - nearly 600 lines, written in Lua (which I don't know) but I copied it into my home .config/awesome directory and I've modified it a little to autostart picom and nitrogen - so I have my own wallpaper.

One glitch is that the default Super-l keybinding locks up Windows. That wouldn't be a problem in an on the rails Linux install. I could fix that with a different super key like Alt.

It looks to me like the ultimate tinkerer's wm.

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I installed awesome wm on my test Thinkpad laptop which also runs Debian bullseye. When I configured rc.lua I discovered that nitrogen would not launch and set my wallpaper the same way it does in VBox. No idea why. So I switched over to feh and that works. I'd prefer to use nitrogen but the command "nitrogen --restore" does not work when programmed in rc.lua. It's not a typing error as I copied the VBox config file over to the Thinkpad.

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I was using AwesomeWM several years ago -- installed it in Debian Squeeze back in 2010, kept it for a couple of years or so. I don't think I was ever using Nitrogen with it; I did use feh, eventually putting it in a script I had for automatic, random wallpaper changing.

 

I have a lot of old notes from those days, including one about getting a bunch of good info from this thread: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=36453

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