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jeffw_00

How do you do backups in XP?

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Ed_P
to do a restore I hook a virgin drive to the remote machine and do another file copy.
From an existing OS connected to a LAN but how is the remote machine accessing the LAN? It must have been booted from something/somewhere? What OS is it booted to?

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Marsden11
A major stumbling block for older apps is the NTFS file system.
Wrong...Older program compatability has absolutely nothing to do with file system type. I can load and run Word Perfect for DOS on XP which sits on a NTFS partition.All I have to do is use XP's Application Compatability Mode.image1.jpgIn addition to compatability mode there is the Compatibility Administration Tool where I can turn on and off any of the internal system fixes, browse for fixed programs on system drives, and create multiple fix packages that can be propagated and installed on other computers to resolve compatibility issues.These tools have been around since 2001.

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jeffw_00
From an existing OS connected to a LAN but how is the remote machine accessing the LAN?  It must have been booted from something/somewhere?  What OS is it booted to?
ok - what I actually do is 1) using PKZIP, I build a ZIP file of my entire disk.2) I copy the ZIp file to another machine.3) I wait for the disk to crash4) I buy a new disk5) I hook the new disk to the other machine6) I expand the pkzip file onto the disk7) I replace the broken disk with the new oneand win98 boots.sorry this is so hard to describe/j

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Peachy
ok - what I actually do is 1) using PKZIP, I build a ZIP file of my entire disk.2) I copy the ZIp file to another machine.3) I wait for the disk to crash4) I buy  a new disk5) I hook the new disk to the other machine6) I expand the pkzip file onto the disk7) I replace the broken disk with the new oneand win98 boots.sorry this is so hard to describe/j
Which is why imaging software is the best tool for what you just described doing, whether it's Windows 98 or Windows XP. But with Windows XP you can't use pkzip to do what you want to do, unless you use FAT32 partitions for XP and boot with a DOS disk and do the pkzip backup that way.

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James M. Fisher

One of my colleagues uses Image for Windows and loves it. It is cheaper than DriveImage/Ghost: US$27.00

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Ed_P
5) I hook the new disk to the other machine6) I expand the pkzip file onto the disk
5) How? IDE cable? USB cable? rubber band?6) How? Do you run an OS on the "other machine"? Which OS? How did it get on the "other machine"? On what machine do you execute PKZip to perform the restore?Sorry, sometimes my mind gets very dense. But I don't fully understand what you currently do. :hmm: :'( :( :huh:

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Marsden11
Windows XP you can't use pkzip to do what you want to do, unless you use FAT32 partitions for XP
What is all this nonsense about DOS can't use NTFS? You are not reading the files just copying. If that were true then how would the Recovery Console work? I have the following commands...AttribBatchCopyDeleteDirDiskpartEnableExpandFormatMapMkdirNet UseRenameRmdirMoreSetSystemrootTypeI can run batch files, copy files and just about anything else I want... Please show me the MS KB or Technet article where this is impossible to do...

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jeffw_00
5) How?  IDE cable? USB cable? rubber band?6) How?  Do you run an OS on the "other machine"? Which OS?  How did it get on the "other machine"?  On what machine do you execute PKZip to perform the restore?Sorry, sometimes my mind gets very dense.  But I don't fully understand what you currently do.  :hmm:  :'(    :(  :huh:
5) IDE cable6) The "other machine" is another PC running WIN98SE today, maybe WINXP in the future. I execute PKZIP on the "other machine" to restore the contents of the zip file to the virgin disk.

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jeffw_00
Which is why imaging software is the best tool for what you just described doing, whether it's Windows 98 or Windows XP. But with Windows XP you can't use pkzip to do what you want to do, unless you use FAT32 partitions for XP and boot with a DOS disk and do the pkzip backup that way.
Im ok with staying with FAT32 partitions - why is this necessary?Why should I need to boot with a DOS disk - I don't get files locked for writing with WIN98Se and that hasn't hurt me yet...personally I think the companies that make backup software scare people into thinking this is way too hard - if I can buy SW for $27 that can do it - I can probably find a way to do it for free (and I'm not cheap - but I would like to understand what the SW is doing)thanks/j

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Peachy
What is all this nonsense about DOS can't use NTFS? You are not reading the files just copying. If that were true then how would the Recovery Console work? I have the following commands...AttribBatchCopyDeleteDirDiskpartEnableExpandFormatMapMkdirNet UseRenameRmdirMoreSetSystemrootTypeI can run batch files, copy files and just about anything else I want... Please show me the MS KB or Technet article where this is impossible to do...
Okay, I stand corrected: if you use the recovery console. But, if you boot from a MS-DOS boot disk, you can't copy to a NTFS formatted drive let alone see it. I don't use the Recovery Console that often (because XP is so stable I've never had a problem with booting into XP) so I didn't even think about the command line from that perspective. :'(

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Marsden11

That is the beauty of the Recovery Console...I don't need a floppy drive!!!I can take a Win2K CD and boot to the recovery console on XP. I can take an XP CD and boot to the recovery console on Win2K. I can install the recovery console to the root install drive on either Win2K or XP and have that option in the boot menu... It also "sees" NTFS which is far superior to any FAT flavor... and I don't need a floppy drive nor any stinkin boot floppies... simplify... :'(

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Peachy

Oh yeah, now I remember something fascinating discovered last year. If you boot an XP box using the Windows 2000 CD and Recovery Console, you can log into the XP box with full Admin rights without needing a password! Has Microsoft fixed that?

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Marsden11

I believe so... I'll have to check. I know for certain it will not work on 2003 Server...

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Gus K
Hi - i don't want to boot from else where as I want it to be automated. I saw on a forum that the issue might be that the boot sector for an XP machine needs to be specially initialized - a high-end program like ghost takes care of this, but at $70/machine - there's gotta be a better way. Maybe after I magically "SYS" a new hard disk I can put the PKimage on it and be on my way.
Here's one for $27. Free to try.http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/imagew.html

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James M. Fisher

I already mentioned this to Jeff above, Gus. :'( Jeff: $27.00 buys a lot of 'peace of mind'. The software developers have done all the gruntwork, why bother to do it yourself? It's like buying crude oil to refine just to make your own gasoline.

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Gus K

OOps! But maybe my 'free to try' comment will be of some use.

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James M. Fisher
OOps!  But maybe my 'free to try' comment will be of some use.
Maybe the 2 of us can twist his arm! :'(

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Ed_P
5) IDE cable6) The "other machine" is another PC running WIN98SE today, maybe WINXP in the future.  I execute PKZIP on the "other machine" to restore the contents of the zip file to the virgin disk.
So you must connect the replacement drive as a 2ndary drive on the machine. You then use that machine's connection to the LAN to restore the PKZip backup. Then you disconnect the restored drive and put it in the machine that lost it's hard drive, yes?The replacement drive, when you put it in the remote machine you do a FORMAT on it yes? And make it bootable. Then do the PKZip restore to it. Yes?If so the question becomes can you do a FORMAT and make the drive bootable using Win XP. If so it would seem that PKZip could restore the files like before.Do I understand your situation better now? :thumbsup:

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jeffw_00

So you must connect the replacement drive as a 2ndary drive on the machine. You then use that machine's connection to the LAN to restore the PKZip backup. Then you disconnect the restored drive and put it in the machine that lost it's hard drive, yes? ***YES****The replacement drive, when you put it in the remote machine you do a FORMAT on it yes? And make it bootable. Then do the PKZip restore to it. Yes? ***YES********but no need to make it bootable - the boot sector files apparently always got restored to the right spot****If so the question becomes can you do a FORMAT and make the drive bootable using Win XP. If so it would seem that PKZip could restore the files like before.***That's what I'm asking - i assume in XP there's probably some magic command to make the drive bootable, but when I ask here and other places I hear about all sorts of "magic" things that XP does that makes it more than the sum of all its files, and frankly I have doubts. I can understand that probably the boot sector needs special setup, but otherwise ...../thanks/j

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jeffw_00

------------------DIFFERENT SUBTHREAD--------------------I was reading inside-and-out tonite, and learned about NTbackup. Why wouldn't I want to use this? Couldn't I re-build a disk by1) formatting it as XP bootable2) install the OS3) restore a full backup (including O/S files)would step 2 be necessary?Also - please tell me NTbackup does some compression when creating its backup sets?thanks/j

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Peachy
would step 2 be necessary?Also - please tell me NTbackup does some compression when creating its backup sets?thanks/j
Theoretically, no, if what you are doing is connecting the drive to another IDE channel while the current system is running. What you might have to do is edit the boot.ini file to make sure it is identical to the current one.Yes, NTbackup does compression.

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jeffw_00

so why doesn't anyone suggest NTbackup? 8-}sounds like it's all I need...

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James M. Fisher
so why doesn't anyone suggest NTbackup? 8-}sounds like it's all I need...
Why I don't recommend it?Never used it, other than for a tape drive in my wife's PC and even then I use Seagate's software.Also, I don't want to reinstall Windows just so I can use it. Imaging is my preference; up and running in minutes.

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Ed_P
would step 2 be necessary?
I don't see any other way to get the drive's MBR to point to the OS's nucleus so when you move it it will be bootable.<sigh> maybe I will try formating an hd with XP and see what it does. I've formated floppies before with it but never an hd. maybe later.

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Peachy
I don't see any other way to get the drive's MBR to point to the OS's nucleus so when you move it it will be bootable.<sigh> maybe I will try formating an hd with XP and see what it does.  I've formated floppies before with it but never an hd.  maybe later.
You can boot into the Recovery Console from CD and use fixmbr to get the bootloader to work with the new drive if it's got a copy of his Windows directory and the ntldr and boot.ini files in the root of c:\

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Ed_P

Well FORMATing an hd under XP creates a very blank NTFS hd. No system files, nuttin'. So if you restore your total system to it it will not be bootable until you do what Peachy stated above.Thus to create a bootable replacement drive you can use PKZip in a similar fashion to what you do today.0) Install the replacement drive1) Format the drive using XP, NTFS format I presume thought FAT32 is an option.2) Restore the backed up folders and files using PKZip4) Boot to the Recovery Console and make the drive bootable by running fixmbr.5) Uninstall the restored drive6) Install it in the failed machine. I suspect NTBackup would work similarly. While an imaging product would be faster you would still need something for your daily incremental backups.Ok? :(

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jeffw_00

Hi Ed - thanks - yes - voila - I was sure there was some way to do this with basic tools. I plan to use NTBACKUP since it has the option to backup/restore system state. I've been thinking about imaging products. I could use one for my full backups. Need to find a simple one that runs unattended. ImageforWindows might do the trick. Still, NTBACKUP does compression, so I'm not sure I need anything else....One final note: I recently stumbled across this link.http://www.kellys-korner-xp.com/win_xp_backup.htmseems interesting.thanks everyone/j

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James M. Fisher

Kelly has a ton o' stuff on her site. :wacko: Note the caveat regarding ASR on XP Home, though.Most imaging products have scheduling built-in.

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jeffw_00
Note the caveat regarding ASR on XP Home, though.
yes, but there's a workaround posted as well.does the grin mean you do or don't trust what she's posted?/j

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