scanreg /fix hangs!

[b2cm]

In Windows, can you try:Start>Programs>System Tools>System Information>Tools>Registry Checker?

[Ed_P]

Start>Programs>System Tools>System Information>Tools>Registry Checker <==> scanregW.exe

[jeffw_00]

I, for one am interested to see the outcome of all this.

Me three 8-}i'm not sure I'll get to this tonite - might be something I want to wait for a weekend (when I have a couple of hours in case something goes wrong)stay tuned 8-}and THANKS!/j

[Ed_P]

jeffw_00, you may need to tweak those instructions I gave you. Sorry. The standard Windows registry files usually carry the hidden and system attributes which you will need to turn off before copying and restoring them.The commands for the backup are:c:\windows>attrib -s -h user.datc:\windows>attrib -s -h system.datc:\windows>copy user.dat user.bakc:\windows>copy system.dat system.bakc:\windows>attrib +s +h user.datc:\windows>attrib +s +h system.datThe commands for the restore are:c:\windows>attrib -s -h user.datc:\windows>attrib -s -h system.datc:\windows>del user.datc:\windows>del system.datc:\windows>rename user.bak user.datc:\windows>rename system.bak system.datc:\windows>attrib +s +h user.datc:\windows>attrib +s +h system.datOnce you feel comfortable backing up and restoring the Registry you can try the utility James M Fisher recommended.

[jeffw_00]

i tried it - didn't make a particle of difference, - new .dat files were same size as old and couldn't be fixed. I think i might try the cleaner route - the one recommended here concerned me because when I looked at the web site the release history indicated the developer is still squashing non-trivial bugs. so maybe i'll look around for a better one.BTW -if you use windows explorer it's real easy to copy and move registry.dat files - don't have to worry about the attributes explicitlythanks anyhoo/j

[Ed_P]

Drat!! Well we tried jeffw_00. Sorry it didn't resolve your problem. If you do make any progress keep us posted.

[James M. Fisher]

I think i might try the cleaner route - the one recommended here concerned me because when I looked at the web site the release history indicated the developer is still squashing non-trivial bugs.  so maybe i'll look around for a better one.

Every piece of software has trivial bugs, jeff. EasyCleaner has a good "Undo" feature, so that will give you some peace of mind at least.

[jeffw_00]

they seemed more than 'trivial' - have you used it with good results?/j

[James M. Fisher]

Sorry, you did say "non-trivial", I misquoted you. To be fair, at least the author is up-front about the bugs and even provides fixes where possible.I have used it with good results (on XP and Me), although I stress that with anything that touches the Windows registry should be treated with extreme caution. It's like brain surgery...one small mistake and.... However, it has a great Undo feature, which, to be honest I have had to rely upon only once (so far).

[jeffw_00]

i played with some of his other clean functions (temp files, dup files, etc), and I got the sense he used a broad brush (i.e., when in doubt, throw it out). I'm skeptical as to whether the 341 'duplicate' keys will make a dent in the 8.87MB size of the registry.../j

[James M. Fisher]

I'm skeptical as to whether the 341 'duplicate' keys will make a dent in the 8.87MB size of the registry.../j

I am skeptical as well, but if it gets it down a meg or 2....then run compaction....?

[Ed_P]

i played with some of his other clean functions (temp files, dup files, etc), and I got the sense he used a broad brush (i.e., when in doubt, throw it out).  I'm skeptical as to whether the 341 'duplicate' keys will make a dent in the 8.87MB size of the registry.../j

Well, a dent may be all you need. Isn't the limit you need to reach 8.6MB?

[jeffw_00]

341 out of what, 10s of thousands of keys, is around 1%. I need at least 3% to make a difference. Also - as I mentioned, he appears to err on the side of throwing questionable stuff away - which means I could lose some keys I need and not know it for a long time (long after the backups are obsolete). I appreciate all your help, but I don't need this badly enough to risk really messing up the machine with only a small chance of solving my problem. happy 4th/j

[James M. Fisher]

I appreciate all your help, but I don't need this badly enough to risk really messing up the machine with only a small chance of solving my problem. happy 4th/j

Just to refresh my memory: other than the scanreg problem, you are experiencing no other related Windows problems? If not, it may be better to let the matter rest.

[wawadave]

hello i have seen the reg repair in 98 hang like this. the way i solved it was to reboot to 98 bootdisk and run with the dos from it and did the repair from the command line there.

[jeffw_00]

wanadave - can you explain your approach a little more specifically - did you boot from floppy or CD-ROM - which executable did you run? Also - were you specifically solving the "registry is bigger than 8.6MB problem - or did you have some other problem?James - no other problems right now/j

[Cluttermagnet]

This has been quite an interesting and informative thread. I'm taking some notes to keep in a .txt file for future reference. The problem jeffw_00 is having would also have me asking questions of people more expert than me. One approach that came up I do have some experience with, however. While it is always a good idea to back up your registry before deleting obsolete entries or other wise tinkering 'just in case', I can tell you that there are several good, free registry cleaners that I have found to always run safely on 98SE and never cause problems. One that I use happens to be an older version of ToniArt's "Easy Cleaner", version 1.7f. It does a great job. Using it on friends' computers, I have often found 100 or more obsolete entries on poorly- maintained or never- maintained machines. 300 plus is a new record, so far as I am concerned. No wonder that registry is up over 8 megs!For me personally, scanning and deleting most or all of some 300 plus entries would be a low stress event. Of course I would look at every item before deleting, but having lots of experience with Easy Cleaner, that is a pretty quick, almost 'batch'- type operation.Basically, I took my cues regarding Win9x registry cleaning from Fred Langa, who ran an excellent series of items on this topic. In addition to Easy Cleaner, I use Microsoft's Reg Clean, version 4.1a, build 7364.1. Although I never see what it finds, I let it fix anything it does find, and have never regretted it. It also makes undo files for every change. There are several more good ones I use a bit less frequently, including an older version 4.3 of RegCleaner. Only one of them, CleanReg 3, ever finds items which I won't delete. It is a great utility though, and I use it often, although carefully. Of all my reg cleaner utilities, it is the only one I wouldn't recommend to others because it could suggest potentially dangerous deletions.I also use Langa's Clean9x- it is an excellent freeware Dos utility which you launch from within Windows. A good one though not for newbies. As a final step during a reg cleaning session, I also regularly restart in MS-DOS and run scanreg /opt and scanreg /fix. Never a problem from running those, either. And finally, I do often runNorton Win Doctor From Norton Systemworks 2002, usually as the second pass after running Easy Cleaner. After a lengthy cleaning session, I sometimes run Norton Speed Disk to defrag my newly cleaned HD, as the final step. It is so far my hands down favorite defragger from among several I have tried.I also run GoBack 3.1 Personal Edition on my 98SE machines. It has saved my bacon more than once, and it does, BTW, keep earlier registry copies on hand. Only rarely have I been forced to rely on GoBack. Usually it just runs silently and helps itself to copies of newly created files, etc. My HD becomes quite busy after defragging, as GoBack appears to be making a fresh copy of most of C:. I might add that disk imaging techniques are far superior to GoBack, but GoBack is definitely worth having on Win98 machines IMO. It has its place.A lot of folks are too intimidated to risk working with the registry. I have learned how to do it entirely with software utilities, avoiding any direct registry hacks, for the most part. This makes my overall approach quite practical for less than expert users, and I have taught some friends how to do this on their Win98 machines as well. Neither I nor my friends have ever been forced to reinstall Windows after doing such cleaning. Heck, I have a copy of 98SE, upgraded from original Win98, that is still running since 1999. That OS is a bit wounded here and there, but still chugs along like a champ. Registry cleaning is just not that dangerous if you get good help and advice when starting out.

[James M. Fisher]

Thanks for your input and experiences in this area, cluttermagnet.

[Ed_P]

jeff_00 if you backup the Registry's files, either using the DOS method I gave or doing it under Windows as you did, if you have a problem at some point you can restore the Registry from the files you backed up.The 300 broken entries are pointing to files and folders that your friend deleted. Unless he can somehow undelete them they are gone and there is no way he will need these pointers in the future. A reinstall of the deleted software will reinit any key fields. However, if the system is working, there's really not a major reason to optimize the Registry so what's the old saying, let sleeping dogs lie?

[jeffw_00]

Hi allThanks for the thoughts Cluttermagnet - I use RegClean as well - did a lot the first time I ever ran it, and little since then. You seem to suggest that, in EasyCleaner there is some way to see the contents of the keys - if I can figure out how to do that so I can at least eyeball scan the results, I might be more comfortable cleaning the tags (though i suspect 341 is still too small a number to get the registry down to size). FYI to everyone - the registry may be this big because this PC has been around in some form or another since starting life on a 286 in 1988. It went through Win 2.0, 3.x, 95, and is now 98SE. My wife uses it to run her tax business (http://www.kwcpa.com if anyone needs a great tax CPA 8-}) , so every year a half-dozen or more new apps are loaded which cannot be removed (as she never knows when she has to go back to an old tax year for some client). Re-building the machine would be a nightmare because of the huge number of apps that would have to be reloaded and re-associated with their myraid collection of data files. So, I keep it running as best I can. Ed - I'm not explaining myself well - the problem with relying on a registry backup is it may be months before my wife needs to start up an app from 2-3 years ago only to find a registry key not working and be hosed. What also concerns me is that these tax and financial programs don't always seem to follow regular naming conventions, etc. For example, the 'duplicate file' and 'temp file' removal parts of easycleaner wanted to remove a lot of files that I know the tax programs needed. If the guys who write the tax programs also do their registry keys badly, it's possible that easycleaner could trip over them as well.On the other hand, as I mentioned, I need to keep this machine running, so I would like to reinstate the tool of "scanreg /fix", as that has helped fix this machine when it has been in bad health in the past.So any way, that's what's going on. Thanks to everyone for their comments so far./j

[Ed_P]

Ed - I'm not explaining myself well

That's ok, I don't always understand well. jeff_00, I appreciate you concerns much better now. I do our personal taxes using pc software and they are all still installed also for the same reason. You need to get your wife a large hard drive so she doesn't have to delete the apps until it is safe to do so. The client files she could offload to CDs to save space but she could leave the apps installed.I've always wondered if the older software had a problem or wouldn't run on a newer OS what kind of support the vendor would supply. Have you had to use this approach?

[jeffw_00]

she has a big drive - and when it's not big enough she gets a bigger one. Everything runs great (even the DOS-based progs), but this is one (of many) reasons I won't move past WIN98SE/j

[Cluttermagnet]

Hi allThanks for the thoughts Cluttermagnet - I use RegClean as well - did a lot the first time I ever ran it, and little since then.  You seem to suggest that, in EasyCleaner there is some way to see the contents of the keys - if I can figure out how to do that so I can at least eyeball scan the results, I might be more comfortable cleaning the tags (though i suspect 341 is still too small a number to get the registry down to size).

Hi, Jeff-Yes, exactly right- Easy Cleaner seems to only find registry pointers that truly are safe to delete, and it does list each and every one it finds. You can view the list and selectively delete most of them, leaving a few behind if that is your preference. Your latest comments help a lot in illuminating your particular situation. Now I understand how you might have let your registry grow so big. Note that my experience is limited to v.1.7f, but I bet any later releases can be trusted as well. Go for it. You never know what Microsoft's Reg Clean is deleting. You just have to trust them if you use it. Most every reg cleaner is going to give you a detailed list so you can decide what you can safely delete. It does sound like you are a prime candidate for 'drive imaging' technology. That type of utility takes a snapshot of your entire C: drive so you can reinstall everything you already have installed, including all data up to the date you make the image. At a minimum, it sounds like you ought to get in the habit of making secure backups of your data. That might save you should your machine ever become unbootable. Right now, a catastrophic failure of your hard drive would prove very expensive to mitigate. You would probably have to send a bad drive to one of those expert data recovery services and hope they can get most of your data for you. That's expensive, however, and there's no guarantee you could recover it all.Another thought- if you are relying so heavily on being able to use older programs to work with older data, you better have the install programs for each and every one of those, just in case. It would be wise to have backup copies of these on removable media, along with copies of all your data in the same type(s) of media. It would pay to check that all such disks (or whatever) remain readable. Floppies, CDR's, and Zip/Jazz disks can all fail unexpectedly, and all but the CD's are susceptible to damage by stray magnetic fields, i.e. don't store them in non-climate controlled environments or on top of loudspeakers or CRT monitors, etc. You have to keep them well- separated from any permanent magnets and such.

[jeffw_00]

Hi _ i don't mind your assuming the contrary, but I do disk-to-disk incremental backups every night, full backups every week, and dump to tape once a month. Again - I don't see how to let Easycleaner show you the CONTENTS of the key rather than the key itself - were you really able to get it to do this?thanks/j

[James M. Fisher]

FYI to everyone - the registry may be this big because this PC has been around in some form or another since starting life on a 286 in 1988. It went through Win 2.0, 3.x, 95, and is now 98SE.

That registry belongs in a Computer Museum!

[jeffw_00]

hey, it works. I don't toss my car because the ashtrays are dirty either.

[James M. Fisher]

hey, it works.

And, really that's what counts the most! (I was being facetious in my previous post. I was amazed that a PC exists that has gone through so many upgrades! I wouldn't tamper with it at all.)

[Cluttermagnet]

Hi  _ i don't mind your assuming the contrary, but I do disk-to-disk incremental backups every night, full backups every week, and dump to tape once a month.  Again - I don't see how to let Easycleaner show you the CONTENTS of the key rather than the key itself - were you really able to get it to do this?thanks/j

Yikes! You've got it pretty squared away, jeff. Just keep on doing what you're doing. Regarding Easy Cleaner (v. 1.7f), I just took a look at the program. My registry is too clean for it to find anything but I did note the four column headings for any obsolete entries it does find. They are Registry Key, Last Modified (date), String Value, and File/Path Reference. Something tells me this is not as much detail as you are looking for. If that were the case, you could then fire up one of several excellent freeware registry tweakers to look at the nitty gritty. One that I'm presently using is Registrar Lite.

[Ed_P]

she has a big drive - and when it's not big enough she gets a bigger one.  Everything runs great (even the DOS-based progs), but this is one (of many) reasons I won't move past WIN98SE/j

I think at some point, in the not too distant future, you won't be able to get current tax sw that supports Win 98SE. You might consider testing some of the apps under Win XP now to see if or where you may have problems. You could also play with multi-booting should you need both OSs.

[jeffw_00]

I will go to WinXP only kicking and screaming. I looked into going to WIN2K - which sould really benefit her - but there were too many caveats about problems with a mixed WIN2K/WIN98SE network, and I need rock-solid file sharing as in busy times multiple PCs are used for the business, sharing a network database. I'm not sure where you get your data about tax programs not supporting WIN98SE - I've found the financial software guys stay way behind the curve where their customers want them - i think it was '96 or '97 before they even brought out a windows version of the program, before that it was DOS./j