Build your own or buy?

[securitybreach]

2 hours ago, Mauser said:

Yeah, that can be an issue at varying degrees. Unfortionately I was never able to find that adapter. It should me mandatory for that adapter to be included with the motherboard. I hate engineers! All the engineers I have met in my travels with the exception of three were blithering idiots! One engineered agreed with me.

 

Well one thing that I found in IT on the enterprise level is that all engineers are the same. For instance, a computer engineer can figure out most things given resources. I just assumed it was the way with all engineers, well I was completely wrong. Most engineers know their field but little else outside of their field.

[securitybreach]

I figured out that there is a huge differencee in "thinking like an engineer" and having engineer as a title.

[Guest Mauser]

27 minutes ago, securitybreach said:

 

Well one thing that I found in IT on the enterprise level is that all engineers are the same. For instance, a computer engineer can figure out most things given resources. I just assumed it was the way with all engineers, well I was completely wrong. Most engineers know their field but little else outside of their field.

In my experience with engineers is they don't know anything even it's their field.  Thinking is dangerous for engineers.

[securitybreach]

44 minutes ago, Mauser said:

In my experience with engineers is they don't know anything even it's their field.  Thinking is dangerous for engineers.

 

Well not all engineers. Computer engineers literally figure out technical issues for a living.

[Guest Mauser]

2 hours ago, securitybreach said:

 

Well not all engineers. Computer engineers literally figure out technical issues for a living.

I agree not all engineers, but most engineers don't their job properly regardless of type of engineer unless they are a train engineer which is entirely different type of engineer since they are driving a train. You can see the goof ups from computer engineers in many ways.

[securitybreach]

You're probably thinking software development. Computer engineering is more like merging electrical engineering and computer science. It's more about deploying and maintaining the systems more so than working with the software itself. People assume I am a programmer since I work in IT. I explain that while I can code, I maintain the servers and systems that programmers and such use. Generally most programmers do not know much about computing. We do not come up with the projects, we just maintain and deploy them.

[Guest Mauser]

43 minutes ago, securitybreach said:

You're probably thinking software development. Computer engineering is more like merging electrical engineering and computer science. It's more about deploying and maintaining the systems more so than working with the software itself. People assume I am a programmer since I work in IT. I explain that while I can code, I maintain the servers and systems that programmers and such use. Generally most programmers do not know much about computing. We do not come up with the projects, we just maintain and deploy them.

Not just software, but also hardware.

[abarbarian]

14 hours ago, Mauser said:

and the larger coolers make it more difficult to build.

 

All the super large coolers I have used have only had two screws to bolt them down on the mobo. As to lack of space I always use ATX mobos as the are the largest and allow more air flow around components.

Josh's point about connectors is correct. Most modern mobos now have multi connector blocks where all the fiddly connectors are seated in one block and then plugged into the mobo.

As to overclocking that to has been made easier with more finesse for voltage etc etc , understanding the science has therefore become more complex. Heck though why would you bother as modern cpu's are pretty darn fast. My old grey cell can hardly keep up with my older Skylake and I am sure it would fry if i were using a up to date cpu.

I have trouble with grammer too, but my FF spell checker seems to work just fine. It is a pain to use as I am dyslexic or just plain old thick or possibly have had too many knocks to the head over the years and keep on making a whole host of spelling mistakes. This got very bad after my crash last year but has improved somewhat. When I have time I will post a unedited post so you can see what I mean.

 

[abarbarian]

8 hours ago, Mauser said:

but most engineers don't their job properly regardless of type of engineer

 

That is because today all sorts of people adopt the title "engineer " "expert" or sum such when they have only taken a night school class and gained a basic certificate in the subject. It is the modern way. Not like in the old days where folks did several years of training before they gained a qualification.

[Guest Mauser]

5 hours ago, abarbarian said:

 

All the super large coolers I have used have only had two screws to bolt them down on the mobo. As to lack of space I always use ATX mobos as the are the largest and allow more air flow around components.

Josh's point about connectors is correct. Most modern mobos now have multi connector blocks where all the fiddly connectors are seated in one block and then plugged into the mobo.

As to overclocking that to has been made easier with more finesse for voltage etc etc , understanding the science has therefore become more complex. Heck though why would you bother as modern cpu's are pretty darn fast. My old grey cell can hardly keep up with my older Skylake and I am sure it would fry if i were using a up to date cpu.

I have trouble with grammer too, but my FF spell checker seems to work just fine. It is a pain to use as I am dyslexic or just plain old thick or possibly have had too many knocks to the head over the years and keep on making a whole host of spelling mistakes. This got very bad after my crash last year but has improved somewhat. When I have time I will post a unedited post so you can see what I mean.

 

I use ATX motherboards and you can't install those coolers with the fan or fans attached. You have to remove the fan in order to install the cooler and installing the fan is a real pain. Sometimes you have to remove the RAM modules to install the cooler. Installing the cooler first doesn't always work either because it blocks access to the screws holding down the motherboard.

 

The last three motherboards I have installed had no "multi connector blocks where all the fiddly connectors are seated in one block" The ASUS and the MSI was 3 years ago and the Gigabyte is 2 years ago. All modern motherboards running an AMD Ryzen7.

 

Firefox spelling checker doesn't work reliably. The worst thing about it is many times there is no spelling suggestion.

 

Seems like we must be in different dementions because we experience things differently.

[Guest Mauser]

5 hours ago, abarbarian said:

 

That is because today all sorts of people adopt the title "engineer " "expert" or sum such when they have only taken a night school class and gained a basic certificate in the subject. It is the modern way. Not like in the old days where folks did several years of training before they gained a qualification.

True in some cases, but I am referring to the ones who have an actual engineering degree from an "advanced brainwashing institution" (college).  When someone called me an engineer I took it as an insult. I work with my hands and have seen more than my share of incompetent engineering.

[raymac46]

THE ENGINEER AND THE MANAGER                               

A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes that he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts, "Excuse me. Can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him half an hour ago, but I don't know where I am." 
 
The man below says, "Yes. You are in a hot air balloon, hovering approximately 30 feet above this field. You are between 40 and 42 degrees north latitude, and between 58 and 60 degrees west longitude. 
 
"You must be an engineer" says the balloonist.   
"I am", replies the man. "How did you know?" 
 
"Well..." says the balloonist. "Everything you told me was technically correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information and the fact is I am still lost." 
 
The man below says, "You must be a Manager" 
 
"I am", replies the balloonist. "How did you know?" 
 
"Well..." says the man. "You don't know where you are, or where you are going. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are in the exact same position you were in before we met but now it is somehow 
my fault.

Edited May 3, 2022 by raymac46

[securitybreach]

9 hours ago, Mauser said:

I use ATX motherboards and you can't install those coolers with the fan or fans attached. You have to remove the fan in order to install the cooler and installing the fan is a real pain. Sometimes you have to remove the RAM modules to install the cooler. Installing the cooler first doesn't always work either because it blocks access to the screws holding down the motherboard.

 

The last three motherboards I have installed had no "multi connector blocks where all the fiddly connectors are seated in one block" The ASUS and the MSI was 3 years ago and the Gigabyte is 2 years ago. All modern motherboards running an AMD Ryzen7.

 

Firefox spelling checker doesn't work reliably. The worst thing about it is many times there is no spelling suggestion.

 

Seems like we must be in different dementions because we experience things differently.

 

That depends on the motherboard. I have had plenty of Asus motherboards that had plenty of room. I also tend to buy the full ATX towers (currently a CORSAIR OBSIDIAN 750D Full-Tower Case - Airflow Edition). I am now using water cooling but I was using a very large corsair heatsink with 2x 150mm fans. Link to tower build from 2 years ago:

 

 

And the old case with the large heatsink. I couldn't find a pic with both fans on it but I had one on each side

 

 

 

Point being, I think you just need a bigger case.

[crp]

Might be a good time to pick up building on if willing to use a CPU from 2 generations ago. Those CPU's have dropped in price quite a bit recently and the motherboard prices have dropped recently. DDR4 RAM is still inexpensive and the GPU prices are approaching (if not hitting) MSRP.

 

[raymac46]

If you're using Linux and not gaming you can keep an old desktop system going until it breaks and not be too frustrated with performance. My last build was in 2013 and it's an old AMD Piledriver CPU with a cheap AMD GPU I put in in 2015. DDR3 RAM, and an old school SATA 3 SSD makes this system fly with current Linux. You probably couldn't run Windows 10 on it but Linux is a whole 'nother matter.

The main problem would be getting a replacement motherboard if the current one croaks.

[crp]

On 1/3/2023 at 6:38 AM, raymac46 said:

If you're using Linux and not gaming you can keep an old desktop system going until it breaks and not be too frustrated with performance. My last build was in 2013 and it's an old AMD Piledriver CPU with a cheap AMD GPU I put in in 2015. DDR3 RAM, and an old school SATA 3 SSD makes this system fly with current Linux. You probably couldn't run Windows 10 on it but Linux is a whole 'nother matter.

The main problem would be getting a replacement motherboard if the current one croaks.

Actually, W10 gave most of my old pc's (including ones from before 2010) an extra boost of life. It was quite a nice surprise. 

W11 on the other hand ...

At work I am still keeping a Pentium Core running as a server with somewhat current Debian Linux. No gaming, no heavy gpu use - it is doing fine.

 

[raymac46]

21 hours ago, crp said:

Actually, W10 gave most of my old pc's (including ones from before 2010) an extra boost of life. It was quite a nice surprise. 

W11 on the other hand ...

At work I am still keeping a Pentium Core running as a server with somewhat current Debian Linux. No gaming, no heavy gpu use - it is doing fine.

 

From what I can see Windows 10 cannot be updated if you have anything older than Intel Ivy Bridge or AMD Richland processors. That would rule out my most recent (and current) junker desktops. Both of these still work great with Linux, as does my oldest system - a Core 2 Duo from 2008.

[raymac46]

If things do go south with my old system I would likely rebuild around an AMD 5600G APU and a mobo that will give me nvme storage and DDR4. That should be stable with Linux dor some time to come. Not too much cable management needed.