Chrome OS Flex or Linux

[raymac46]

Hedon James is interested in setting up ChromeOS Flex on a piece of old hardware. Certainly looks like a viable project.

I have looked into this and seen a few articles like this one:

https://www.zdnet.com/article/how-i-revived-three-ancient-laptops-with-chrome-os-flex/

 

But as someone who "gets" Linux I wonder if it would be the right choice for me. I can run Linux programs natively with Linux Mint and don't have to launch them via the Terminal. I might like to try another browser occasionally.

Now where I think it might be a good idea is with the grandkids where they already use Google apps for remote learning. I have installed Mint on their old hardware and maybe ChromeOS Flex would suit them better. They have no issues with Mint though.

Bottom line for me I don't see the need to adopt ChromeOS Flex. I wonder what others think about it.

Edited November 9, 2022 by raymac46

[Hedon James]

small clarification.....I'm not "sold" on the concept.  but conceptually, it seems like a GREAT idea.  A light & nimble OS for minimally-specced machines; with ease of portability for internet access and cloud storage; with a large user base for troubleshooting; backing from a large corporate sponsor, for longevity; and ability to install NATIVE Linux applications, albeit in a sandbox (current versions of ChromeOS Flex indicate the linux version is Debian Bullseye).  This seems to check all the right boxes (for me) and hit a sweet spot.

 

But as they say, proof is in the pudding.  Once I get my hands on a suitable Chromebook (with more than 4GB RAM and more than 64GB hard drive, which i feel may not be enough for the Linux apps I want to install, i.e.  LibreOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird, Gimp, MasterPDFEditor, PCManFM-QT, etc...) or an older Win laptop that I can repurpose, we'll see how the grand experiment goes.  Maybe it's better to stick with ONE ecosystem, rather than straddle the fence with one foot on each side.  But I do like versatility, options, and built-in redundancies when it comes to my software.  In the event of a software crisis, I like to have a fallback option that allows me to continue with an assignment in a timely manner, allowing me to deal with the software issue in a time frame of MY choosing.  Stay tuned...

[Hedon James]

BTW....I did see an online tutorial where a fellow demonstrated the ability to install an ENTIRE linux DE in ChromeOS Flex.  He installed a KDE environment on his Chromebook, which he demonstrated was operational!  A strange choice for a minimal-spec machine, IMO, but it was a very interesting proof of concept.  I think I would have selected LXQt, or LXDE, or XFCE, or something similar.  But his point was made.  All kinds of interesting hybrid combinations are possible.

[raymac46]

 Here's LTT's take on the subject. Bottom line - make sure your target system is certified.

[raymac46]

Specs on my T430...

Ivy Bridge i5

12 GB DDR3 RAM

128 GB SSD (Early Samsung EVO)

Dual wave Intel G wifi

Intel graphics (no dual Nvidia graphics)

1366X768 screen

 

This would be a perfect candidate but it is also a beautiful Debian machine.

[sunrat]

Current opinion on several other forums I frequent is... don't get get a Chromebook with intention of running Linux! The more recent ones are reportedly worse. Some have jumped through hoops to get Linux installed only to find certain devices don't work properly, audio being a main crucial one.

A couple from Linux Musicians:

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=25004

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?p=149678

 

That Lenovo Ray mentioned would be so much better.

[securitybreach]

GalliumOS has an extensive lists of chrombooks and their compatibility with Linux:

 

Quote

The table below includes OS and firmware support information for all 237 models of Chromebooks, Chromeboxes, and Chromebases. If a firmware update is required (or recommended) for your model, you can find full details at Firmware.

 

https://wiki.galliumos.org/Hardware_Compatibility

 

In case you are wondering GalliumOS is

 

Quote

A fast and lightweight Linux distro for ChromeOS devices.

 

https://galliumos.org/

 

Linked from the archwiki entry for chromebooks https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Chrome_OS_devices/Chromebook

[securitybreach]

And you can officially enable Linux mode on chromebooks now which makes sense considering that ChromeOS is a just modified version of Gentoo:

 

Quote

To make it clear, all Chromebooks launched in 2019 and going forward will have support for Linux. And yes, it includes school-issued Chromebooks too. That said, school administrators can still disable Linux support from their end. If such is the case with your Chromebook then contact your school administrator to remove the restriction. Other than that, you don’t need to move your Chromebook to Developer mode or any other channel. Linux support is already present on the stable channel. Also, you can install Linux on ARM-based Chromebooks too so no worries on this front..........

 

https://beebom.com/how-use-linux-chromebook/

[securitybreach]

Quote

It has been more than 3 years since Project Crostini (Linux Support) was announced and now the majority of Chromebooks have Linux app support. Initially, Crostini was available only on Developer Mode, but thankfully, now you can install Linux apps in both normal mode and stable channel as well. And in the last two years, Linux has improved by leaps and bounds and it’s almost stable to use.

So, in this article, we bring you the 22 best Linux apps on Chromebook that you can comfortably use right now. We have included many helpful programs that are otherwise not available through the Web or Android apps platform. Now with all that said, let’s go ahead and learn about Linux apps in detail.

 

https://beebom.com/best-linux-apps-chromebook/

[raymac46]

I suppose in my case if ChromeOS Flex had been available back when I was repurposing a couple of old Win 7 systems for the grandkids, it might have made sense to install it instead of Linux Mint. After all, the remote learning they do makes use of the Google ecosystem. My grandson has a school supplied Chromebook.

However the grandkids move rather seamlessly from Windows to Chromebook to Linux Mint and still get the job done with a Chrome browser. A slight change in interface doesn't faze them.

So maybe the point is moot. I do not however see the point of using a kludgy Linux - ChromeOS combination instead of a full featured Linux install. At least not on my hardware - which will be some sort of Windows / X86 machine initially. I have not yet had the problem of repurposing a Chromebook and really I don't think that'll ever come up. Most cheap Chromebooks are rather cr^p when it comes to hardware quality.

[Hedon James]

As SB pointed out, 2019 and newer Chromebooks have linux support "built in" out of the box.  One simply needs to navigate to settings>developer options and "enable linux".  This provides a linux terminal in your applications and launch bar, from which you can install linux applications (currently Debian Bullseye repos) with familiar "sudo apt-get install application" command.  That's how this Chromebook investigation started for me.

But looking into Chromebook specs, they look a lot like those underpowered netbooks from about 10 years ago.  2-4GB RAM and 32-64GB HDD, with no ability to upgrade.  That's when I stumbled onto ChromeOS Flex.........a "Chrome distro" to upgrade former Windows machines to Chrome machines.  Should be a piece of cake to locate an older and decrepit Windows laptop with 4-8GB RAM and at least 126GB SSD and install ChromeOS Flex as the distro of choice; then flesh it out with preferred Linux applications from the Debian Bullseye repo.  As a matter of practical procedure, I ALWAYS check hardware compatibility thanks to some hard lessons learned the hard way early in my linux migration.  Ray's Lenovo Thinkpad does indeed look like an ideal candidate.  I'm keen on Lenovo Thinkpads, Ideapads, and Asus offerings, like Vivobooks.

 

We're all linux users here.....we've all done this at least a dozen times each, I'm betting.  Some of us, perhaps hundreds of times.  Child's play for most (all?!) of us.  Puhleez....tell me this doesn't sound like a piece of cake?!

 

(EDIT:  after watching video posted, ChromeOS Flex does NOT provide linux terminal functionality.  Stuck with Chromebook for that function, but important to know that NOW, before a purchase!)

 

EDIT #2:  i came to this conclusion after hearing the statement in the linked video.  but upon further research, it appears that linux applications ARE available in ChromeOS Flex.  The catch, as far as I can tell, is that the hardware must be certified to work with ChromeOS in order for developer options/linux apps to work.  If the hardware isn't certified, you may or may not get linux functionality.  Seems to me that one would "test" this functionality prior to installation.....isn't that the whole point of a distro on a stick?  But I guess if one wasn't worried about or even interested in linux apps, why would one check out that function?  In the linked video, only 1 of the "test" laptops was certified to work with ChromeOS Flex, and that was by sheer luck.  No one thought to check the list prior to installing the distro.  So it appears that ChromeOS Flex DOES support installing linux apps, as long as you stick with certified hardware.  There are many Acer, Asus, HP, and Lenovo devices on that list, including Thinkpads and Ideapads.  I'd prefer Asus or Lenovo for laptop hardware, but I could probably live with Acer or HP.  Whatever works, right?!

Edited November 10, 2022 by Hedon James

[raymac46]

If I really Really REALLY wanted a Chromebook I'd go for one of the higher end ones like the Acer Spin 713 or the ASUS Flip CX5. At least these have decent CPUs, more RAM and a larger SSD. Pricey but they'll do the job a lot better than a $99 crashbox. Also you get all the Chromebook features pre-installed.

The more I find out about ChromeOS Flex the less likely I am to try installing it.

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by raymac46

[Hedon James]

6 hours ago, raymac46 said:

If I really Really REALLY wanted a Chromebook I'd go for one of the higher end ones like the Acer Spin 713 or the ASUS Flip CX5. At least these have decent CPUs, more RAM and a larger SSD. Pricey but they'll do the job a lot better than a $99 crashbox. Also you get all the Chromebook features pre-installed.

The more I find out about ChromeOS Flex the less likely I am to try installing it.

 

I agree with you on the upper end Chromebooks.  But it seems like the pricing of those upper tiers compete with Windows laptops, which are either better-specced OR upgradeable.  In that price range, I'd rather have the better specs, or the ability to upgrade.  Thats how I stumbled on the ChromeOS Flex option.  The only downside to Flex (that I can identify) is lack of access to Google applications in Play Store.  But since I'm only interested in the Linux side, that's not a deterrent to me.

 

Make no mistake....I'm no fan of the Chromebooks, or the whole cloud computing ecosystem.  My ONLY interest is in the feature of installing linux apps and integrating into the Chrome desktop.  Maybe it's the long way to go about things, but anything that goes out of its way to accommodate linux is interesting to me.  wouldn't it be ironic if the "year of the linux desktop" actually came to fruition as a Google Chrome platform?  There's a pretty significant user base of Google products, and many schools are using Chromebooks for their students now, much like Windows was the de facto choice in the 90s and 00s.  The next generation is going to grow up with a confirmation bias that Google/Chrome/Android/Linux is good, and Windows will be the unfamiliar OS.  That's a good thing, IMO.

[sunrat]

9 hours ago, Hedon James said:

The next generation is going to grow up with a confirmation bias that Google/Chrome/Android/Linux is good, and Windows will be the unfamiliar OS.  That's a good thing, IMO.

 

Nah, same crap, different toilet. Except for Linux of course. Although certain things in certain Linuxi are fading to a pale brown.

[raymac46]

My grandkids' school board has pretty much standardized on Google Classroom for either remote or in person learning. Whether they have a school supplied Chromebook, or bring their own hardware - Windows, Mac or Linux are fine - they work inside the Google platform. It's basically an OS agnostic, thin client way of working. Google does the heavy lifting but it isn't necessary for end to end delivery.

I suppose they are locked in to some extent but it is somewhat more flexible than the all Windows workplace I remember. Kids adapt quickly,and parents aren't stuck buying new hardware so the kids can learn remotely.

[raymac46]

There's no doubt in my mind that you could get ChromeOS Flex to run on any old laptop which would support Linux. At its heart ChromeOS is Linux.

And aside from machines featuring dual graphics, it's pretty easy to install Linux on old laptops. You'll have your best experience with all Intel, all the time hardware like a Thinkpad. But I've had good luck with AMD recently.

The more pertinent question is why install ChromeOS and then headbang your way to a full featured Linux install, rather than just install Lubuntu or antiX? It seems to me you are unnecessarily complicating your life, but I can understand if you just want to tinker.

I mean if you just want the Chromebook experience, you can get a perfectly OK and cheap used Chromebook and just faff around to your heart's content.

 

https://tinyurl.com/mr3hbfcv

 

 

[Hedon James]

2 hours ago, raymac46 said:

There's no doubt in my mind that you could get ChromeOS Flex to run on any old laptop which would support Linux. At its heart ChromeOS is Linux.

And aside from machines featuring dual graphics, it's pretty easy to install Linux on old laptops. You'll have your best experience with all Intel, all the time hardware like a Thinkpad. But I've had good luck with AMD recently.

The more pertinent question is why install ChromeOS and then headbang your way to a full featured Linux install, rather than just install Lubuntu or antiX? It seems to me you are unnecessarily complicating your life, but I can understand if you just want to tinker.

I mean if you just want the Chromebook experience, you can get a perfectly OK and cheap used Chromebook and just faff around to your heart's content.

 

https://tinyurl.com/mr3hbfcv

 

 

i just want to tinker!  I'm fascinated with the world's attempt to embrace linux, while at the same time refusing to FULLY embrace linux.

 

I don't know what I don't know.  A Chrome base OS with Linux applications MIGHT be a sweet spot?  A supremely stable, secure & well-supported base OS, with more fully featured linux applications available in a sandbox, running on top of that base.  I'm not a huge fan of the Chrome/Android ecosystem and it's cloud-based ideologies.  But everything I don't like about Google's model can be addressed with Linux app installation on a Chrome base!

 

But as you point out, and I'll readily acknowledge, it MAY be better to just install a linux distro.  but I've done that already.  It's certainly a better option than leaving Windows on the machine; but is it a better option than a linux base (ChromeOS) with linux apps running in a sandbox?  It SEEMS like there'd be an additional layer of security and safety there.  But additional parts & pieces also inevitably leads to additional complexity and additional opportunities for failure.  Now I'm just curious, and I think the only way to find out is to actually do it?!  And relatively speaking, it's not prohibitively expensive to undertake the task.  Sounds like I'll be the first on BATL.  I'll let you know what I know, when I know it, LOL!

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Hedon James

[raymac46]

Well looking at the bright side, if you do this successfully you might be the first BATL member to get a full featured Gentoo install running on your laptop. The thrill of victory without the agony of defeat. Ask VTEL.

Edited November 12, 2022 by raymac46

[raymac46]

In a rather twisted way of thinking, you are sort of following the Arch Linux model of installing a base system and then adding those elements you find useful. But don't tell Josh I made that comparison LOL.

[securitybreach]

I've installed and setup Gentoo a few times in the past, it's not that difficult. Try LFS (Linux from Scratch) if you want a long process. Plus ChromeOS is already gentoo.

 

Now if you want Linux with sandboxing, just use Qubes OS as it comes with that out of the box. That said, you can replicate it on other distros as well:

 

Qubes OS is a free and open-source, security-oriented operating system for single-user desktop computing. Qubes OS leverages

Xen-based virtualization to allow for the creation and management of isolated compartments called qubes.

 

https://www.qubes-os.org/intro/

[raymac46]

Forgot to mention that Spiral Linux stable is still running well on my oldest and ugliest desktop system. That is another Linux suggestion if you don't want Lubuntu. Lubuntu is prettier though.

[raymac46]

I have made a USB key with ChromeOS Flex. Note the best way to do this is in Windows, as ChromeOS Recovery Extension is needed to make the USB key and that's not supported in Linux.

You can make the key in Linux but you have to hunt down a binary image and then use dd in the Terminal to make it.

https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11543105?hl=en#zippy=%2Chow-do-i-create-a-chrome-os-flex-usb-installer-on-linux
 

I have ChromeOS Flex running off the USB on my Linux Mint desktop system right now. Posting this from it. It's slow but it works. That's as far as I care to take it since I don't have an old PC around for an install.

 

[raymac46]

Back in Linux Mint and no harm done with my brief ChromeOS trial.

[sunrat]

4 hours ago, raymac46 said:

Back in Linux Mint and no harm done with my brief ChromeOS trial.

 

Except for the extra data Google probably scraped from you during your experiment.

[raymac46]

So here's my take on ChromeOS Flex. YMMV of course, and I'm interested to hear what Hedon James will conclude.

• The download and USB Key build is a little different but certainly not beyond the expertise of a veteran Linux user. I wonder how many Windows refugees will attempt it.
• If you are a student using Google Classroom, or a fan of the Google ecosystem - Chrome, Drive, Docs,Sheets etc. - it may make sense to install ChromeOS Flex. 
• The list of certified hardware isn't exhaustive, but really if your system can run Linux OK you should be fine. Thinkpads by and large are certified. Some old Macbooks have been troublesome.
• If you want a Linux system I think it probably makes sense to install one without the hassle of building up a ChromeOS Flex install. But that's just me.
• Chromebooks are available with a more complete Chrome OS preinstalled for reasonable prices. This may be a preferable option if you want to roll with Google. At least they are providing a preinstalled form of Linux - sorta. And that's something we have always said would be a good thing.
• All these articles and YouTube videos about repurposing old hardware with Chrome OS Flex are mostly BS. You can do the same thing with Linux. And Chrome OS Flex doesn't always work. Even if it runs great off the USB key you can run the risk of bricking an old Macbook, for example.

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by raymac46

[Hedon James]

okay....finally pulled the trigger, and reporting back on results, so far:

 

I found a refurbished Acer CB317 laptop with 4GB RAM and 64GB hard drive on Amazon for $175.  At that price, i figured i couldn't go wrong, even if my experiment is unsatisfactory.  Ordered on Monday, and received last night.  Setup ChromeOS and updated to the most recent version (a requirement to enable Linux apps).  Enabled Linux Apps in the Advanced Settings and a "virtual machine" was installed on a 10GB partition (can be changed, but 10 is recommended default).  About 10 minutes later, I'm restarting ChromeOS and installing Linux Apps from the terminal CLI.  Interesting enough, ChromeOS provides the terminal app, and the username@host allows you to pick your username (although it suggests your google username), but the host is "penguin".  So the terminal prompt is username@penguin, LOL!

 

For lack of a better way to describe it, I'm hoping to become "untethered" to my main desktop.  On nice days, I'm hoping to access files on my main computer and NAS, but from my back deck, or on my shaded patio while the grandson plays in hot tub, or maybe even from my "beach pit" by the dock, or from my boat (although this will require my phone to be used as a hotspot, at least for upload/download).  And God forbid I should ever take a vacation somewhere, but need to perform work tasks in an emergency fashion?!  I wanted a machine that was big enough to display Writer docs without reading glasses, but small enough to be portable.  16"-17" devices seem to be a sweet spot for me.  With form factor and locational issues resolved, it was time for software.

 

Worthy of note, research indicates the CrostiniVM downloads a Debian version of Buster, FWIW.  Inasmuch as I'm a Debian user, this is seamless for me.  With a few "apt" incantations I installed libreoffice-writer, libreoffice-calc, pcmanfm, and firefox-esr.  Watching the process from terminal is very familiar, and speed is very familiar.  Linux Apps are downloaded and placed into a single "group" within the Chrome launcher.  I pinned what I want to the "shelf".  I also "enabled" the service for smb:// connections and mapped the path to my desktop.

 

Seconds later, I'm browsing my main desktop directory and opening some "test" files on the Chromebook, which open files as "read only".  However, saving to the Chromebook disk allows "editing" and I was able to make changes to my files and save them.  Even better yet, I was able to save them back to my main desktop drive (effectively "pushing" them to the original machine); then subsequently open on the main desktop with no issues.  Simple proof of concept that indicates this is probably gonna work for me EXACTLY how I hoped.

 

Some cons are that the Linux Apps are not themed to be cohesive with Chrome themes.  Libreoffice and PCManFM look like "standard" Gnome themes, with no ability to change.  No biggie for me, as I'm a FUNCTION over FORM kinda guy, but I know that's an issue for some folks.  Other than that, I'm pretty happy with it.  I'm not sure what other Linux Apps I might want to download, as I've gotten the most important ones to accomplish what I need, but I'm sure I'll want some others at some point.  With that in mind, at some point, I question whether a 10GB partition will be sufficient.  I was also worried whether 4GB RAM would be sufficient for ChromeOS AND the LinuxVM, AND libreoffice apps....but everything seems to be functioning fine.  So far, so good, and at the Amazon price for the refurb, I don't think I could've gotten a better deal for this little experiment.

 

To date, it's all positive news, but that's because my checkboxes are getting checked off.  As I use the machine and encounter other features, or issues, I'll report back.  I know this isn't for everyone, but it's probably a viable solution for someone other than me.  Stay tuned...

[raymac46]

@HJ looks like you are doing very well with ChromeOS so far. Glad to see it's working out for you.

 

Edited January 12, 2023 by raymac46

[Hedon James]

2 hours ago, raymac46 said:

@HJ looks like you are doing very well with ChromeOS so far. Glad to see it's working out for you.

 

so far....

 

but let me get some mileage out of this and we'll see if I still have that rosy outlook.  others in this thread made some very valid points about just installing a linux distro on old laptop to accomplish the same thing.  but i don't have any old windows laptop soldiers to "upgrade" and I didn't want to spend $300-$400 or more for the opportunity to do that to an entry level Windows laptop.  so when I saw the "refurbished" 17" chromebook on Amazon, with AUE (automated update expiration) through June 2030 for $175 i just couldn't look away.  Helluva deal, especially with Linux Apps enabled.

 

Not a fan of the Google cloud-based ecosystem, but with LibreOffice, Firefox, and my own NAS storage solutions, I've circumvented my biggest gripes with Google and their WebApps.  I can maybe see that 64GB drive getting filled up quickly, but I can put a 128 or 256 sd card for Data storage, just like I did with my desktop.  No worries!  Stay tuned while I figure out what does NOT work for me!

[securitybreach]

Nice

[raymac46]

@HJ I too have a Chromebook but I got it mostly for the grandkids as they use Chrome education software at school. Makes it easier if they visit. Since I have a number of junker laptops running Linux I haven't bothered to enable it on the CB. I am also a Google user as I keep whatever cloud files I need on Google Drive.

My CB is a 13.3 inch screen size so a bit lighter and smaller. I think the best use I have for it is a quick lookup of info on TV shows in my family room area. The only downside I could think of to Linux on a CB would be the 10GB walled garden.

There's still stuff I want to do that I cannot do in anything but Windows - train sims, my income taxes, my preferred photo storage app - but I can see the appeal of a Chromebook since you can get the experience of both ChromeOS and Debian on the same machine.

I got into Linux originally because I had old hardware running obsolete Windows software and I needed something to replace the O/S without junking the hardware. Probably today I'd just install ChromeOS Flex. But I would be missing out on quite a lot, including this forum.