systemD , my 2 cents

[crp]

So it has been a couple of years now with my dealing with systemD on CentOS , Alma and Debian. Got to say that i hate it.

 

Actually it isn't the systemd for setting up and running the core services but the adoption of its philosophy and framework by applications.

A perfect example would be firewalld and iptables. I am convinced that not only was nothing gained by replacing iptables with firewalld , there are major losses.

 

Linux tool applications like this used to be simple, now they are all overly complex. To me it is the White Tower of Academia taking over the philosophy that was Linux applications should do one thing, do it simply and do it so that internally and externally the tools can be easily chained together to make new tools or add options.

 

So, which modern distros do not use systemd? Is it feasible to use tools like iptables on distros that insist on systemd?

 

Edit: oh , https://itsfoss.com/systemd-free-distros

Edited October 27, 2022 by crp
added link to a web site that lists the distros and why they exist.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

21 hours ago, crp said:

Linux tool applications like this used to be simple, now they are all overly complex.

 

This is PRECISELY my biggest dislike with SystemD and related PulseAudio... they are overly complicated. SysVinit has worked fine in GNU/Linux for decades. SystemD is a gross violation of the UNIX principle or "K.I.S.S.", in my humble opinion.

 

21 hours ago, crp said:

So, which modern distros do not use systemd?

 

Not a Systemd Fan? Here are 14 Systemd-Free Linux Distributions

Oh, and there's no SystemD in my Slackware.

[sunrat]

The Systemd vs Sysv debate was over long ago. Let's not start again. You can choose Devuan, Slackware, Antix etc. if you want.

It's like the war on drugs. Drugs won. But you can still choose not to.

[Hedon James]

13 hours ago, sunrat said:

The Systemd vs Sysv debate was over long ago. Let's not start again. You can choose Devuan, Slackware, Antix etc. if you want.

It's like the war on drugs. Drugs won. But you can still choose not to.

 

I remember hearing that "no war lasts for 40 years."  If you're still fighting a "war" for 40 years, I tend to agree the "war is over; now it's just a long-lasting insurrection that won't die."  The problem with that war is they always targeted the supply side, instead of the demand side.  With demand remaining basically unchanged, all that did was increase the price, thereby making the drug business even more profitable.  Yep, drugs won.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Some of us are still battling...

 

 

 

[crp]

On 10/28/2022 at 3:43 PM, sunrat said:

The Systemd vs Sysv debate was over long ago. Let's not start again. You can choose Devuan, Slackware, Antix etc. if you want.

It's like the war on drugs. Drugs won. But you can still choose not to.

I am worried about applications and programs demanding that systemd be setup and only being  available with internal systemd .

And I think that the people-on-the-ground should still rise up and protest when the Ivory Tower types impose their 'perfect' solutions at the expense of the 'good' solutions. The debate should continue, even though the bad guys won. Continuing the debate just might help in keeping the Ivory Tower within the bounds of practicality for all of us who just want things to get done. 

[securitybreach]

Well unlike most of us, I actually like systemd and think its a good implementation.

[sunrat]

1 hour ago, securitybreach said:

Well unlike most of us, I actually like systemd and think its a good implementation.

 

I like it too. systemd service files have a unified syntax which makes it easier to write or edit them. sysv had a dog's breakfast of different syntax for different services.

journalctl is much easier to use to find messages than trawling through various log files.

Parallel boot service startups is faster.

[securitybreach]

My thoughts exactly

[abarbarian]

13 hours ago, sunrat said:

 

I like it too. systemd service files have a unified syntax which makes it easier to write or edit them. sysv had a dog's breakfast of different syntax for different services.

journalctl is much easier to use to find messages than trawling through various log files.

Parallel boot service startups is faster.

 

Yup once you have RTFM it makes sense. A .service file is the same for all programs. I seem to remember that I have made alterations to some systemd file in the past so it can not be that hard to work with.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

20 hours ago, securitybreach said:

Well unlike most of us, I actually like systemd and think its a good implementation.

 

Choices are wonderful. Didn't have a lot of that in MS Windows. Enjoy your freedom of choice.

 

Personally, I'll be staying away from SystemD for as long as possible. It's bad enough that I have to deal with PulseAudio nowadays.

[sunrat]

To be pedantic, it's systemd, no capitals. system daemon.

 

@V.T. Eric Laytonwe can all look forward to Pipewire to replace PulseAudio. PA was always a bit lacking IMO.

PW will replace PA and JACK while still being a sound server on top of ALSA. There are a few people at Linux Musicians forum using it now and most report it is quite functional and capable. I tried it out on Debian Testing a while back and was nearly satisfied with it but one issue caused me to revert to PA > JACK > ALSA. I believe it is already default on Fedora and will be default on Debian Bookworm, the next release.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

3 hours ago, sunrat said:

To be pedantic, it's systemd, no capitals. system daemon.

 

Umm... OK, then.

[abarbarian]

On 10/31/2022 at 5:47 PM, V.T. Eric Layton said:

Choices are wonderful. Didn't have a lot of that in MS Windows. Enjoy your freedom of choice.

 

My main reason for becoming a penguin.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Heh... my main reason for becoming a Slacker was the third "service pack" fix for Win XP that trashed my system just as the previous two service packs did.

[crp]