UPS backup

[DarkSerge]

Greetings.

 

A few years ago some bad storms shorted my motherboard. Since then, I've got a UPS backup. It's been about 2.5 years and it's starting to frequently give errors that I can only fix by turning it off, unplugging everything, then turning it back on. I've heard the batteries only last about 3 years.

 

I bought a $50 unit and it's served me just fine for what I have here; no issues until the recent error beeps as it is probably reaching it's 3 years. Do more expensive units last longer? If what I have now functions just fine for me, and I have to replace it every 3 years, is there any reason I would need a more expensive power backup?

Edited December 30, 2021 by DarkSerge

[securitybreach]

Well I have mine for many years now and it works great. Of course, it costs about $150 CyberPower CP1000AVRLCD Intelligent LCD UPS System, 1000VA/600W, 9 Outlets, AVR, Mini-Tower

 

It even has a linux systemd service. I have it setup to cleanly shutdown my machines after 19m (gives me enough time to do it if I am at home).

 

[goretsky]

Hello,

Does the UPS have any on-board diagnostics you can run, or software that you can use to connect it to your PC over a USB port and test from there?  Also, have you checked to see if the batteries are fully charging?  If not, are they user-replaceable?

 

Regards,

 

Aryeh Goretsky

 

[xrobwx71]

I used to use APC at home and work. I had quite a few APC go bad after a year at work so I proceeded to research.   I now use Eaton. 3 years no issues. The ones at work cost about $600 but the home ones are about $180. 

 

I have a similar Cyberpower at home and its been problem free for 2 + years.

 

PSU's and UPC'S are not the place to cut corners.

Edited December 30, 2021 by xrobwx71

[zlim]

I buy APC. My current one was about $70 and purchased in 2017. I buy them because they are compact and fit on my desktop. (I neither want nor need a huge unit sitting on the floor of the computer room.)  The current unit has 7 plugs all protected against surge and lightening, which is what I needed. 5 plugs are battery protected. This allows me to safely shut off the computers, monitor and printer. Then all I really need powered is the modem and router. When new, I could surf for about 3 1/2 hours with no power to the house. Since the unit is aging, when we had a power outage of 47 hours in September, the unit only lasted a bit over an hour. It is time to either buy another of the same model or buy a replacement battery.

 

Decide how large or small a unit you need both in size of the unit and how many devices really need a battery backup.

[Digerati]

13 hours ago, DarkSerge said:

I've heard the batteries only last about 3 years.

You heard right. Actually, it is typically 2 to 5 years. Why the big spread? Because age also depends on how often the UPS kicks over to battery back up, and how deep the discharge when it does kick over. So batteries in an UPS that rarely ever needs to cut over to batteries may last closer to 5 years. An UPS that kicks over more often, closer to 2. This is all perfectly normal. 

 

13 hours ago, DarkSerge said:

Do more expensive units last longer?

 

Perhaps. As with most (but certainly no all!) things, more expensive models use better quality components, better assembly/construction techniques, and in the case of UPS, tend to have higher capacities. This last point is often key. The same computer will place a greater demand or  higher load (in percentage) on a smaller UPS than that same computer will put on a larger capacity UPS. This greater demand could cause faster aging of the batteries. 

1 hour ago, xrobwx71 said:

I used to use APC at home and work. I had quite a few APC go bad after a year at work so I proceeded to research. 

Years ago, APC was the gold standard. I still have my first APC and it is now pushing 30 years old, still works great and is supporting my garage door opener. Then APC was sold to Schneider Electronics and as often happens, the new owners decided to cut corners. Quality and reliability dropped significantly - so did sales. Then Schneider Electronics was sold and now, IMO, APC is worth considering again. 

 

That said, If you got the budget, Eaton can't be beat. 

 

@DarkSergeI will also add that I never, as in NEVER EVER buy replacement batteries from the UPS maker. They always charge more for the same batteries you can find cheaper elsewhere. I buy my UPS batteries from Apex, BatteryWholesale, Battery Mart, Batteryplex, RefurbUPS, Walmart or Amazon - depending on who has the best price on that day. And note today one distributor will price high with free shipping and the next day price low with shipping. So be sure to factor in shipping, which can be significant, but sometimes free.

 

Just make sure you get the same voltage. The amp/hour rating can be higher however, for longer run times. For example, it the current cells are 12V 7.2AH, I always go with 12V 9AH. And last, make sure you get the correct terminal size. There are inexpensive adapters but typically space inside the UPS battery compartment is too limited.

 

F1 vs F2 terminal connector size

F1 Terminal – 3/16” (0.187”, 4.8mm) wide

F2 Terminal – 1/4" (0.25”, 6.35mm) wide

 

 

[DarkSerge]

13 hours ago, goretsky said:

Does the UPS have any on-board diagnostics you can run, or software that you can use to connect it to your PC over a USB port and test from there?  Also, have you checked to see if the batteries are fully charging?  If not, are they user-replaceable?

Nope. It's basically a battery with power plugs on it. The only information I get from it is that the light is green when everything's fine and it blinks and beeps for everything else. The light is green right now.

 

What I have is an APC BN450M: https://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/products/APC-Back-UPS-450VA-120V-6-NEMA-outlets-2-surge-/P-BN450M

 

The alarm it started giving me that prompted this post, is the alternating green and red on the LED with a constant tone, which in the manual indicates to replace the battery. Right now, it's once every couple weeks or so I walk into my office and the unit is beeping; and it's usually when my computer is powered off, it's never happened while everything is powered on.  I have 4 devices plugged into the battery backup - computer, monitor, modem, and network drive. Only the modem and network drive are powered on 24/7. It's just my home computer, so all I need is basic protection and a few minutes to shut down if the power goes out while the computer is running.

[securitybreach]

If it's cheaper, I would just replace the unit.

[Digerati]

While I agree, if cheaper, buy a new UPS. But I have never found, after a bit of homework, that replacement batteries were more expensive than buying a whole new UPS. 

 

That said, if you do buy a new UPS and/or when you do replace the batteries, do not just toss the old batteries in the trash. Recycle them. If your trash pickup service does not take them, many auto parts stores will. Or if you have a Batteries Plus Bulbs store near you, they will take them too. 

 

Best Buy used to take them, now they only take old electronics - not batteries. 

[DarkSerge]

If it's no big advantage to me to buy something more expensive, then I'll probably just replace it with something similar. Maybe look into something a little more with a status display so I have a little more to go by then "green or blinking" status. I live across the street from a shopping place with a Staples, and I know they've taken my old electronics in the past. I could stop in and ask if they'll take an old UPS while also pricing some new ones.

[Digerati]

13 minutes ago, DarkSerge said:

If it's no big advantage to me to buy something more expensive, then I'll probably just replace it with something similar. Maybe look into something a little more with a status display so I have a little more to go by then "green or blinking" status.

 

IMO, if you are going to replace this UPS anyway, then I would not get another $50 UPS. You likely can't find one at that price with an LCD display and intercommunications features anyway. Typically, extra and better features, and higher quality design, better quality components, and better performance (as in better AVR and faster cut-over times) come with the bigger units. 

 

I recommend a quality UPS of at least 1000VA. I have the APC Back UPS 1500 on this system and it works great. Do I need 1500VA (900W)? Nope. But that's okay. The extra capacity means longer battery run time. It also means less strain on the system when on battery which (in theory, anyway) means my batteries should have a longer life span. You might check out Walmart. Or if a member of Sam's or Costco, you might get a nice UPS at decent price. 

 

The extra capacity also means I can, without worry, protect my computer, wireless router, modem, 4-port switch and both my 24" monitors. I live in Tornado Alley so "dirty" power, and full outages are not uncommon. If I lose power right now, according to PowerChute (APC's UPS monitoring software), I have an estimated 58 minutes of run time. 

 

If I lose power and quickly power off my monitors and shutdown my computer, this UPS will keep my network alive for over 3 hours. That's HUGE as it means I still have Internet access and communications with the outside world through my other wireless devices (notebook, tablet, etc.) - even if I am sitting in the dark. 

[securitybreach]

Luckily I have fiber (underground) so even if the power goes off, I can stay online until my UPS runs out. My buddy around the corner has the same service and he had internet (using a generator) for the 9 days of no power during Ida.

[DarkSerge]

My main concern is how long it will last for how much I spend. I think this one was around $50 and it's starting to indicate failure after just over 2.5 years. If I go for something like $200 I want it to last twice that long minimum. If I have to replace it every 3-ish years anyway regardless of price, then I don't see much point in spending that much since I just need basic protection and enough time to shut down. In the rare chance of an extended power outage, any online business I have can be done on my phone in one way or another if needed and I can keep that going for days. Maybe I'd look into something fancier with a replaceable battery if the replacements aren't expensive. So far the alarms on my UPS are still far between (usually a couple weeks) so I still have time to shop around.

[Digerati]

8 minutes ago, DarkSerge said:

My main concern is how long it will last for how much I spend. I think this one was around $50 and it's starting to indicate failure after just over 2.5 years. If I go for something like $200 I want it to last twice that long minimum. If I have to replace it every 3-ish years anyway regardless of price, then I don't see much point in spending that much

It does not appear you have been following what has been said above. 

 

Nothing suggests that right now, you need to replace your UPS. What is suggested is that you need to replace the batteries in your UPS. And as said above, it typically is cheaper to replace the batteries than to buy a whole new UPS. 

 

SLA (sealed lead-acid) batteries (regardless the quality of the UPS they are in) have an expected life span of 2 - 5 years. And again, that life span is dependent on many factors - including the size of the load it has to carry, how often it cuts-over to battery, and how deep the discharge is when it does go on battery. Only YOU can control the size (in terms of percentage) of the load as that is based on the demands your hardware puts on the UPS, and the size (VA/Watts capability) of the UPS.

 

If your hardware demands 200W and you have a 450VA (255W) UPS, that is a 78% load on that UPS. If you have a 1000VA (900W) UPS, that exact same 200W load is only a 22% load. 

 

19 minutes ago, DarkSerge said:

since I just need basic protection and enough time to shut down

 

I don't know what you mean by "basic" protection. There really are not different levels of protection. Every UPS needs to be able to detect excessive anomalies and, if necessary, cut-over to battery backup fast enough to prevent the computer from crashing down. That's it - regardless if a budget UPS or the most expensive UPS.

 

But it is important to understand backup power during a full outage is really just a minor, secondary feature of a good UPS with AVR. It is the AVR features that makes an UPS so valuable. 

 

For sure, you are being very wise to have your computer on a UPS. IMO, every computer should be on a good UPS with AVR. Forget surge and spike protectors. Surge and spike protectors are little more than fancy and expensive extension cords as they do nothing for low voltage events like dips (opposite of spikes), sags (opposite of surges) or brownouts (long duration sags). And for excessive surges and spikes, they simply cut power (“IF” working properly), crashing your computer - never good. If the surge and spike protector is worn out (it is recommended surge and spike protectors be replaced every 2 years) or damaged, they typically provide little to no protection at all.

 

Note too, destructive power anomalies can damage your monitor and network gear too. So they also should be on your UPS if "protection" is your goal - as it should be. And of course, if your power goes out when you are using your computer, how are you going to see what you are doing to shut it down properly, if the monitor's power does not stay up too?

 

 

[DarkSerge]

It doesn't have a replaceable battery. I posted a link to the model earlier with the information. "User replaceable battery not available" according to the product information.

 

I guess by "basic" I mean just plain protection - not a tower-sized UPS with the information screen and data output and monitoring like what securitybreach showed in an earlier post. I just need it to protect my system if the power fluctuates.

Edited December 31, 2021 by DarkSerge

[securitybreach]

Well it says Tower Size but its only 8 inches tall and 4" wide.

[Digerati]

12 minutes ago, DarkSerge said:

It doesn't have a replaceable battery. I posted a link to the model earlier with the information. "User replaceable battery not available" according to the product information.

Actually, as you noted in your second sentence there, it says "User" replaceable. That does not mean it is not replaceable. The specs also say, the battery is a sealed, maintenance-free, lead acid, 12V battery. And that it has a average life 3 - 5 years and the number of discharge cycles, poor quality AC power, environmental temperature and humidity may shorten the battery lifetime.

 

APC BN450M Back-UPS 450VA Compatible Replacement Battery - 100% Compatible (upsbatterycenter.com)

 

The issue with that particular UPS is that it does not have a simple battery compartment "cover". So you have to open the full case to access the battery. As noted, there are youtube videos showing how to do this. 

 

What you need to do is determine your needs and budget. 

 

I recommend you visit the 

eXtreme OuterVision PSU Calculator. This is, by far, the best PSU calculator out there. But it will also recommend the minimum size UPS for your system.

 

Plug in all your current components. Be sure to plan ahead and include all the hardware you think you might add in 2 or 3 years (extra drives, bigger or second video card, more RAM, etc.).

 

And remember, you can always go bigger, but not smaller. 

 

And, if you don't want to go through all this again in few years, make sure you buy an UPS that is designed with a removable battery compartment. 

[xrobwx71]

On 12/30/2021 at 10:16 AM, Digerati said:

That said, If you got the budget, Eaton can't be beat. 

The 2 BIG Eaton's at work are protecting two $35K tint machines and its computer. There is another large one that protects the main server in the office that serves our point of sale system. Then I have smaller ones for the Thin Clients out front.

 

When I say large I'm not talking about footprint. These are roughly 15'' deep x 7.7'' tall and 6'' wide.

 

 

[crp]

For work, i get the UPS's checked up on at a marine battery store. They do have a shelf life , even if they never have to go into battery mode.

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by crp

[Digerati]

All batteries have a shelf-life. Some technologies are better than others. This is why batteries typically have dates stamped on them. Sealed lead-acid (SLA) batteries, such as UPS and car batteries, sadly, have one of the shortest shelf lives. This is why I always buy my UPS (and car batteries) from large retailers - places where there [hopefully] is big turnover of inventory - so [again, hopefully] you can be sure the battery has not been sitting on the shelf for a couple years. 

[Guest Mauser]

I have a CyberPower 1000VA for 7.5 years so far and is still working well.