amenditman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 And now it gets even muddier too. It could be heat related with hard drive and/or CPU or CPU fan as well because it shut itself off only after it started a scan which is both hard drive and CPU intensive.I was thinking the way it was described that it shut off when trying to wake from sleep mode. But you make a good point. Following that logic, I would check the CPU, fan connection, thermal paste (it does dry out over time). I think the hard drive would give different symptoms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Yes, good to check that too. If it never did wake up from sleep mode and just shut itself down (and not during the scan itself), yes, likely could be still be power supply... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Yes, good to check that too. If it never did wake up from sleep mode and just shut itself down (and not during the scan itself), yes, likely could be still be power supply... I agree, it's probably a bad power supply. I've seen this symptom all too often with defective PSUs. Remove the PSU and take it to a local computer shop. They will test it for you. Otherwise, you can test it yourself with a power supply tester. You can buy one for roughly $20-$25. Edit: I have seen computers fail to POST because one of the cable leads from the PSU was defective/causing a short in the system. Therefore, try this. 1. Remove ALL PCI / PCI-express cards 2. Disconnect power & sata cables to all drives - yes this means your hard drive also. 3. Disconnect power cables to any chassis fans or auxiliary fans. In another words, you only need to have the CPU and RAM for a successful post. If after doing so, the system still fails to POST, the most likely cause is a bad PSU or MB in that order. Edited March 4, 2012 by Tushman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burninbush Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 In another words, you only need to have the CPU and RAM for a successful post. If after doing so, the system still fails to POST, the most likely cause is a bad PSU or MB in that order. In my experience you'll have to also have video of some sort, at least the card installed. If video is onboard, then you'll have to verify it is enabled (somehow.) Older bios may also require a keyboard to be present, or at least a confirmation that error will not prevent a POST. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) In my experience you'll have to also have video of some sort, at least the card installed. If video is onboard, then you'll have to verify it is enabled (somehow.) Older bios may also require a keyboard to be present, or at least a confirmation that error will not prevent a POST. You are spelling out the obvious by saying that a video connection is needed. How in the heck are you going to know for sure if the system gives a successful POST or not, without video/monitor connection? Didn't we go through this before? A keyboard is not always needed for a POST. Even in the case that DarkSerge configured his BIOS for a keyboard requirement, the system would give an error message keyboard not present (or similar) but it would still power on if he had a good power supply. Do you have any idea what POST means? Edited March 4, 2012 by Tushman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Actually, burninbush is NOT stating the obvious. Thanks for articulating that information that DarkSerge might just need, burninbush and everyone in this topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSerge Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 The system was always on when it powered off, not sleeping. I'm hopinig it's just the power supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSerge Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 I'm working on the computer right now. As this morning, I wouldn't even power on more than a second. I unplugged all my drives and pulled any PCI/AGP cards I could and it booted past POST. So right now it's running with only my optical drives and just the system hard drive. So something that's unplugged might have been causing it. Possibly one of my hard drives? The system drive is fine. My secondary drive is unplugged and my two SATA drives are unplugged. I have my NIC pulled out and my video card pulled out (I'm running on the onboard graphics.) So I'm finally making some progress it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Sure does seem you are making some good progress. Now maybe shut it down and start by plugging in one thing at a time and testing till you find the culprit? You already checked the system files like Corrine suggested earlier, so hopefully you can figure out which piece of the puzzle is causing your issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSerge Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 that's exactly what i'm doing. i'm just about to plug in my SATA drives and start up again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amenditman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) I'm working on the computer right now. As this morning, I wouldn't even power on more than a second. I unplugged all my drives and pulled any PCI/AGP cards I could and it booted past POST. So right now it's running with only my optical drives and just the system hard drive. So something that's unplugged might have been causing it. Possibly one of my hard drives? The system drive is fine. My secondary drive is unplugged and my two SATA drives are unplugged. I have my NIC pulled out and my video card pulled out (I'm running on the onboard graphics.) So I'm finally making some progress it seems. The good news is that you got past the motherboard, cpu, ram, and system drive. Just like LilBambi said. Step by step at this point 'til you find it. "It" could still turn out to be the PSU. Once you start to load it up with additional HDD, Optical drives, Video cards it may start acting up again. Edited March 4, 2012 by amenditman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSerge Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 So far it booted up completely with all drives plugged in and all system fans. So now it's just to the PCI cards and the AGP video card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSerge Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Okay. I'm confused. Everything is plugged back in and it's working just fine. I plugged each thing in one by one and it's been starting up each time. I got everything plugged in and it's working. I had one failed power-up. When I plugged the video card back in it started up, then I hooked up my second monitor and shut down. The next power up failed. So I unplugged the second monitor and it started up just fine. Thought maybe the video card was causing it when two monitors were hooked up. I've plugged the second monitor back in and it's working like normal again. I'm not sure here. It didn't power up. Then unplugging everything got it to start up, but plugging each part in one by one hasn't caused a failure except the first startup with two monitors although every startup after that with two monitors has been successful... I'm confused. Edit: okay and now it just powered off during startup just as I was logging in. I'm very confused... Edit 2: I just had a successful startup with only one monitor. The video card feels warm, but I know I've had warmer video cards on other computers that didn't cause problems. Edit 3: Fail again. I can't seem to find any consistency in the power problems. Another update: I just don't know. It just failed on power up after two successful startups using just the onboard graphics. I really don't know what to make it of anything. Seems this rules out the video card. Motherboard? Power Supply? I'll try hooking up that other power supply and do several startups to see what happens. Edited March 4, 2012 by DarkSerge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Okay. I'm confused. Everything is plugged back in and it's working just fine. I plugged each thing in one by one and it's been starting up each time. I got everything plugged in and it's working. I had one failed power-up. When I plugged the video card back in it started up, then I hooked up my second monitor and shut down. The next power up failed. So I unplugged the second monitor and it started up just fine. Thought maybe the video card was causing it when two monitors were hooked up. I've plugged the second monitor back in and it's working like normal again. I'm not sure here. It didn't power up. Then unplugging everything got it to start up, but plugging each part in one by one hasn't caused a failure except the first startup with two monitors although every startup after that with two monitors has been successful... I'm confused. Edit: okay and now it just powered off during startup just as I was logging in. I'm very confused... Edit 2: I just had a successful startup with only one monitor. The video card feels warm, but I know I've had warmer video cards on other computers that didn't cause problems. Edit 3: Fail again. I can't seem to find any consistency in the power problems. There are two possibilities. a) bad video port on the back of your card or insufficient power supply. Of the two, the former is the least likely. More than likely one of the cable leads that you're using (for the video card) is defective or not providing sufficient power for a dual-monitor configuration. If you're able to get past the POST when the 1st monitor is connected to port A on the video card, see if you can get a successful POST when it's connected to port B. Do the same with your 2nd monitor. One each at a time. Also tell us the model/make of your video card. Your PSU may be providing insufficient power to the video card when running in dual-monitor mode. Edited March 4, 2012 by Tushman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 To narrow down the culprit, disconnect the power and data cables for all PCI cards and hard drives except for your system drive. Use a different molex connector for your video card and try to get the system to POST. If successful, hook up the 2nd monitor and try to get a successful POST. If in this configuration the system will POST and stay powered on, you can likely determine that the PSU is providing insufficient power for your system when everything is connected. If would be nice if you have a multivoltage meter. With that you can determine in a few seconds whether all the power leads coming from the PSU is kicking out the proper voltage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSerge Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 I had failed power-ons with both onboard graphics and the video card using only one monitor. I've been running the dual-monitors for about 5 months now. If the problem was insufficient power, then why would it just show up now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I had failed power-ons with both onboard graphics and the video card using only one monitor. I've been running the dual-monitors for about 5 months now. If the problem was insufficient power, then why would it just show up now? DarkSerge, not all power supplies are rated the same. Nor do they have the same life span. Power supplies do fail now & then. Depending the quality, the voltage for that molex connector you were using for the video card may be providing insufficient power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSerge Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 DarkSerge, not all power supplies are rated the same. Nor do they have the same life span. Power supplies do fail now & then. Depending the quality, the voltage for that molex connector you were using for the video card may be providing insufficient power. Alright. Hopefully power supply is the main problem in the long run. That would be much easier and cheaper to replace and get a more powerful one. I'm attempting a bunch of startups with all the drives disconnected except the system drive. Let's see how this goes. So far one successful startup, even wrote an email to my mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Alright. Hopefully power supply is the main problem in the long run. That would be much easier and cheaper to replace and get a more powerful one. I'm attempting a bunch of startups with all the drives disconnected except the system drive. Let's see how this goes. So far one successful startup, even wrote an email to my mom. Like I said in my previous post: To narrow down the culprit, disconnect the power and data cables for all PCI cards and hard drives except for your system drive. Use a different molex connector for your video card and try to get the system to POST. If successful, hook up the 2nd monitor and try to get a successful POST.... Doing this will narrow it down quickly for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 My Jim (an electronics technician) suggests you should be happy for now if it's working fine. There are times when you have a bad connection someplace and fixed it by taking it apart and putting it back again. Could have got some dust also out of areas leading to thermal problems. He said just wait for the next event, if it happens. Intermittent problems are a real pain. Don't borrow trouble. There will be time for worrying later if something further happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) My Jim (an electronics technician) suggests you should be happy for now if it's working fine. The problem is that it is not working fine. As DarkSerge said in his earlier post, the system fails to give a successful POST when running in dual-monitor configuration. (not consistently anyways). Or are you suggesting that he only run in single monitor configuration? Edited March 4, 2012 by Tushman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 DarkSerge, is it not working with dual monitors now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Ah, OK, you went back and edited the previous posting...missed that. Another power supply would be the next stop and see what happens then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Also tell us the model of your video card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSerge Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) So far, 5 successful full startups with all drives except the system drive. Weak power supply perhaps? I'll try several more startups and see if they succeed. It seems the critical moments to whether it will start is either at the very beginning of POST, or when I login to Windows. Those are the two moments all the recent failures have shut off. Edit: Oh sorry, video card. ATI Radeon 7000 series. Although I had failures while running the onboard graphics, Intel based. And 6 successful startups with drives unplugged. Edited March 4, 2012 by DarkSerge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Yes, replacing the power supply would be a good thing to do next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSerge Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes, replacing the power supply would be a good thing to do next. 8 successful full startups with the drives unplugged. With everything plugged in I don't think I went more than 3 without a failure. So I'm starting to think I should go power supply shopping on my day off tomorrow. Everybody else thinking the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 8 successful full startups with the drives unplugged. With everything plugged in I don't think I went more than 3 without a failure. So I'm starting to think I should go power supply shopping on my day off tomorrow. Everybody else thinking the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSerge Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) 10 successful startups in a row. I even sent some emails and checked my Facebook just to give it something to do to see if it randomly crapped out again and it's still running. So tomorrow I will head to some local computer shops and do some power supply shopping. I'm going to shut it down for a few hours then start back up and see if it still works. Thank you everyone for your help! Sorry if I sounded a bit frustrated in a few posts. I appreciate all the help I will update when I have a new power supply or if there are any new developments. Edited March 5, 2012 by DarkSerge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Awesome! There is another topic around here with some great power supply companies to choose from for the long haul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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