greengeek Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 I've just got a copy of Debian 3.0r1 which came on 2 cover CDs from one of our Australian magazines. How difficult is Debian? I'm quite comfortable with SuSE, Mandrake and RedHat but I have never used Debian and have heard that it is not so easy. Anyone else use it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Hi JoyHow do you mean hard ? That is an old story from many versions ago . . . I have Debian 3.0, no problems, has a bit an oldfashon feel about it because it does not use the latest versions of KDE and Gnome, but for the most part it´s just as easy or hard as any other distro. ( you´ll be laughing ! )Example: Updating is SUPER-EASY : ¨apt-get update¨ as root, that´s all, does not take long either because the number of updates are very limmited because Debian is only build out of bug free fully tested components ! So even on dial-up you should be fine !Debian is very very stable, you will like that part of it !! :DB) Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Thanks Bruno, I'll try it sometime today. It'll have to share a 1.7Ghz Celeron with XP Pro unless I decide to throw the Windows out of another machine and install it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Wish you luck Joy !Don´t forget to write us a full report on the install and the first impressions.We know it won´t be for tomorrow, but still it gives us something to look foreward to ! Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 Does that mean that I have to write myself notes as I go along? I'll do my best but I'm no good at writing reports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 JoyWe want a blow by blow account, Joy . . . . . . you better make a serious job of it ! I mean nobody believes me if I say it is easy . . . . they will however believe you . . . so if we want more people running Debian . . . . it´s all in your hands ! ( those poor old hands, making notes as well . . feeling sorry for you ) Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havnblast Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 First thing I noticed about installing Debian - which I have not been successful at yet is that dang install. I have not tried the latest version, think it was 2.2.5 and man it never stop asking questions - I never answered so many questions before while installing a OS. Anyway I got all the way to point of it trying to start XServer and it couldn't - it just sat there trying over and over again so I got tired of that and installed RH 8.0 again, I scratch my RH 9.0 disk so bad it won't install, wouldn't you know I made backup copies of 8.0 but had not gotten to back up copies of 9.0 so that ended that. I'm still looking at doing Knoppix here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Kelly,The 2.2 is quiet a bit different than the 3.0 there is nearly 3 years between them and already 3.0 in over 2 years old, so you´re talking 5 - 6 years back here. At that time ( 1998 ) Debian was difficult to install, the 3.0 ( 2000/2001 ) is al lot more user friendly ! Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfProRM Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I gave Debian a try, and I do have to agree with Kelly (even with 3.0)... There is SO MUCH customization you basically must do at install... Think I went 3 hours dealing with packages before I actually did install it... Then didn't get it to work... Said enough was enough with that, didn't want to go through it again. :)Pretty straight-forward installation process, but just quite detailed and drawn out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 OK, over three hours it took. It works OK too but I'm not impressed enough to migrate from SuSE. I'll leave it on this machine for awhile and just test it out and then, when I can afford the next version of SuSE Pro, I'll chuck it out.You won't be getting a blow by blow description, I'm exhausted, so many questions he asks as he's installing stuff. I will say that it's definetly not a distro for a first time install by a beginner.I think I'll go and relax on my SuSE machine now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfProRM Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Glad you got it to work Joy! That's more than a lot of us can say! Don't suppose it'll seem quite as nice as SuSE or any of the other big ones as it's not updated with KDE 3.1 or anything like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Gee and I said Grandama couldn't run Linux. This one got Debian running. That takes quite a bit a work. I've never done an install but I have used it some. You'll love apt-get. But yeah the customizing for the install is a pain from what I've seen of it. I'll stick to my Mandrake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Gee and I said Grandama couldn't run Linux. This one got Debian running.So that was you Nathan, who told her that ? Well, I guess you owe her a generous apology . . . . !! We´re waiting to hear from you Nathan ! Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 OK, over three hours it took. It works OK too but I'm not impressed enough to migrate from SuSE. I'll leave it on this machine for awhile and just test it out and then, when I can afford the next version of SuSE Pro, I'll chuck it out.You won't be getting a blow by blow description, I'm exhausted, so many questions he asks as he's installing stuff. I will say that it's definetly not a distro for a first time install by a beginner.I think I'll go and relax on my SuSE machine now!Good woman Joy ! I knew you could do it ! Bravo ! We´re proud of you !Sure it is no distro for a beginner . . but you just ain´t no beginner Joy ! And sure SuSE looks much nicer and is easier to work with, all these apps in Debian are from years back. But you must be feeling good that you did it ! ( and that you proved our Nathan wrong )You take a rest first Joy, you deserved it. I won´t be asking questions . . . take your time :DB) Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 Thanks Bruno.Nice to see that little note from Nathan up there, he just might change his mind about Grandmas and Linux.First thing tomorrow I'm chucking Debian out and installing it again, the only way to learn. I did the same with SuSE, Mandrake and RedHat too, now I bet I could install those with my eyes closed.I've had enough of computers for one day, I'm off to read a good book (Java Programming in Linux). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Well, that little note won´t do Joy ! I do expect more text from Nathan, he does not have to fall on his knees, but still . . . . . You´re an amazing girl Joy, we´re proud to have you around on the forum !!( That book will take you through the winter with ease ) Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Bruno,I made some comment in one of the threads, I forget which, about how Linux is good but not ready for "Joe Six Pack" or "Grandma" Joy quickly reminded us that she IS a grandma and is running several Linux boxes. Open mouth. Insert foot. Chew. My point is that average user isn't ready for Linux. Heck often they aren't ready for Windows. Anybody who dives into Linux is NOT average. Bad choice of words on my part but my viewpoint about most users remains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chr1s Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Gee and I said Grandama couldn't run Linux. This one got Debian running. That takes quite a bit a work. I've never done an install but I have used it some. You'll love apt-get. But yeah the customizing for the install is a pain from what I've seen of it. I'll stick to my Mandrake.You say that but Joe Barr's (a Linux Journalist a Linuxworld) Grandma actually does run Linux.Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 You say that but Joe Barr's (a Linux Journalist a Linuxworld) Grandma actually does run Linux.I'm not famillier with Joe Barr. Is his Grandma someone who could install Linux on her own or did he setup this FOR Grandma? Actually there is some merit to doing this for users that are dangerous and can break Windows installs. Linux is more stable and has more security then a Windows box. If all they do is email then a copy of Evolution or Kmail is all they need plus Mozilla for browsing. No windows viruses or even worry about them installing some D*** game that fsck'd up Windows. On the other hand if they DO want to install Windows Program X you'll have an issue there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 My point is that average user isn't ready for Linux. Heck often they aren't ready for Windows. Anybody who dives into Linux is NOT average.I'd be willing to bet that none of us that are known to hang our hats in this forum count as average. My friends just look at me like I am from another planet when I tell them I am learning a new operating system for fun this summer. Then they say "What's Linux?" yet remain clueless even after you explain. They just get this glazed over look in their eyes like "There she goes - she's off in computer lala land again!" ___________________________The Never Average Teacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 You mean that glazed look is only for computers ...Gee I get it from my friends when I discuss anything beyond NASCAR and the Redskins...hmmm Maybe my expectations are to high But then again, my eyes glaze over when they get into "Deep Discussions"on if the WWE is a real sport! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted June 17, 2003 Author Share Posted June 17, 2003 I'm not getting into any arguement about Linux not being ready for grandmas. As far as I'm concerned if someone really wants to learn something new then they will make the effort, no matter what age they are.I'm going to install Debian again later today and probably a few more times over the next few weeks until I can do it as easily as SuSE etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 GreengeekYou do it the same way I do..ummm but quicker..I install..reinstall..until I learn it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quint Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 As far as I'm concerned if someone really wants to learn something new then they will make the effort, no matter what age they are.Absolutely, ageless wisdom. Thank you, Joy, for sharing those words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 I, too, have played with Debian (the net install) and found it okay to install (not easy, but not rocket science either). The biggest problem was that it doesn't have any (that I can see) hardware detection routines built into it like the other major distros do. Hence, the install ends up looking primitive in comparison (and is). Example in point. I had a USB mouse. At the end of the install I couldn't figure out how to get my USB mouse working. I'm sure it's not complicated when you already know how to do it, but Red Hat, Mandrake and SuSE (even versions 2 years old) all do this without any user input required, so why bother? Even after you install it, there doesn't appear to be any control center like with other distros. I assume that the user is meant to configure everything through editing files or running configuration utilities that aren't easy to find. I've done it that way in the beginning of learning Linux but now that I don't need to, why would I want to?For the Linux purists, Debian is a good way to go. If install GUIs or configuration GUIs offend you, Debian (or Slackware) is a good way to go. For the rest of us, Mandrake, Red Hat or SuSE is probably a better bet. Unfortunately, their drawback -- namely 'dependency ****' is Debian's strength. You can *easily* upgrade from one version of Debian to the next (if everything is hear is true), not so with other distros although Mandrake does have URPMI and a couple of users in our LUG have told us they've upgraded without any difficulty. My way around that is just to keep my /home on a separate partition and don't touch it during an "upgrade" which I usually do by re-installing.If you want Debian's easy of upgrading with an easier installer and a graphical control center, take a look at Libranet. Once it's installed, it can be upgraded just as easily as Debian. One of our members wrote an article on it which I haven't posted to our website yet but I can let you know if anyone is interested. Libranet isn't available as a download anymore for free from Libranet but you can cds from other places and us. Progeny used to make Debian with an easier installer, hardware detection, etc, but I haven't seen it lately. One our Debian user members tells me that Debian is working on a more graphically-oriented Debian for regular users.Cheers!Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markj57 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 If you want an easy Debian installer, try Knoppix. It's a live-CD distro, and there's an install script "knx-hdinstall" that will walk you through an easy installation. After you're done, you've got Debian.For more information, check out the Knoppix web site:http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.htmlFor forums with information on the hard-drive install, check this address:http://www.knoppix.net/Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Thank you Mark And welcome to the forum, I see its your first post, hope you like it here and you will stick around. Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 Thanks Mark but I didn't want an "easy Debian". I had heard that Debian was difficult to install and I just wanted to see if I could do it. It wasn't so difficult after all, just took a lot longer than other distros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quint Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Thanks Mark but I didn't want an "easy Debian". I had heard that Debian was difficult to install and I just wanted to see if I could do it. It wasn't so difficult after all, just took a lot longer than other distros.Joy,Have you tried Gentoo? Was considering installing it, but wondered if anyone had any good / bad experiences. TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted June 18, 2003 Author Share Posted June 18, 2003 No I haven't tried Gentoo yet, it's on my list of things to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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