sorta solved pi issue

[wa4chq]

Morning all.....

For the past week or two, I've been trying to set up my RPi4 to use something other than Raspian in the ham shack.  For starters, I'm only using it so I can access a website that shows my location and "spotters" on a map.  Basically, it's showing you if a particular "band" is open.  (Back in the day, if nobody returned your call, you could figure that that particular band wasn't favorable.  In my old age, I need to complicate things.)  Using a browser like lynx or links would be perfect if it brought up reverse beacon that was usable, but it doesn't.  I tried several distros for Pi and finally went with Manjaro.  Instead of Firefox, I'm using midori.  During all of this, I ran across Dietpi.....which would have been perfect but I could not get a desktop....same with Alpine.  Has anyone here tried Dietpi?

 

Wet here in Southeast Virg......ciao

[wa4chq]

I'm gonna visit DietPi again, by following this vid....I don't think I've watched it.

[securitybreach]

Sorry, never heard of DietPi before.

[wa4chq]

It was promising.  Following the tutorials to the T but still cannot get a desktop.  I'm gonna try it in VM.

[securitybreach]

Good luck

[wa4chq]

1 hour ago, securitybreach said:

Good luck

My luck so far hasn't been too good....lol

[wa4chq]

Is it correct to assume if it installs correctly in VM, it should install correctly in the real world?

[securitybreach]

1 hour ago, wa4chq said:

Is it correct to assume if it installs correctly in VM, it should install correctly in the real world?

 

Not necessarily as a vm is using virtual hardware.

[wa4chq]

1 hour ago, securitybreach said:

 

Not necessarily as a vm is using virtual hardware.

Most if not all of the videos I've watch that are showing how to install Alpine or Dietpi etc are done an a VM....so it's gonna work there.  Leads me to believe that the person doing the vids hasn't really tried it in the real world.

[securitybreach]

21 minutes ago, wa4chq said:

Most if not all of the videos I've watch that are showing how to install Alpine or Dietpi etc are done an a VM....so it's gonna work there.  Leads me to believe that the person doing the vids hasn't really tried it in the real world.

 

That could be the case but you dont know till you try.

[securitybreach]

This video is done on actual hardware

 

[wa4chq]

Fake news!  lol....and I have been trying......but ain't gonna stop.  I've watched that vid....will watch it again and see what, if anything I'm missing.

Edited May 15 by wa4chq

[securitybreach]

4 minutes ago, wa4chq said:

Fake news!  lol....and I have been trying......but ain't gonna stop.  I've watched that vid....will watch it again and see what, if anything I'm missing.

 

Ok, good luck again.

[wa4chq]

2 minutes ago, securitybreach said:

 

Ok, good luck again.

When you say he's using actual hardware, do you mean he's not doing it in VM?

 

[securitybreach]

No indication of it. Ive seen that channel's videos before and I am pretty sure they would show him loading it in a vm and probably mentioned.

[securitybreach]

Now really I wouldnt ever watch a video on installing something on youtube as there are plenty of linux resources and places out there for support. Then again, it being youtube you could simply ask the guy.

[securitybreach]

Im sure you would get an answer

[wa4chq]

Cuz I'm seeing his cursor.  I never see my cursor in the beginning when I'm doing a real install.  My guess is he's using a virtual machine.

Edited May 15 by wa4chq

[wa4chq]

8 minutes ago, securitybreach said:

Im sure you would get an answer

Yep, I've done that before....it's a coin toss.  Sometimes you get an answer...sometimes you don't. 

[securitybreach]

34 minutes ago, wa4chq said:

Cuz I'm seeing his cursor.  I never see my cursor in the beginning when I'm doing a real install.  My guess is he's using a virtual machine.

 

Well crap

 

[wa4chq]

12 hours ago, securitybreach said:

 

Well crap

 

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

[abarbarian]

I used one of these for my Inky pHAT project. It is a 32 bit and no desktop stuff but you could add one.

 

https://downloads.raspberrypi.com/raspios_lite_armhf/images/

 

Found this video

 

 

Chapters

00:00 [Intro] 02:55 [Raspberry Pi 4]

04:54 [Raspbian OS Lite Installation]

10:44 [Assemble the Raspberry Pi]

13:24 [Power up the Raspberry Pi]

16:08 [SSH into the Raspberry Pi]

17:52 [Update the Raspberry Pi]

20:35 [How to shut down the Pi]

22:05 [Boot up the Pi]

22:55 [What do you do with the Pi]

23:08 [Hook up an SDR]

23:18 [Track airplanes via ADS-B]

24:27 [Track weather balloons]

25:31 [Questions?]

25:45 [Like and Subscribe!]

 

It was done by a guy called K9SWX Ham Radio.

[wa4chq]

Hey AB....They're fun little devices to mess around with.  I have several here and one more on the way.  I'm using them for Pihole, plane spotting, music server, MagicMirror....ham radio to access Reverse Beacon....

I'm thinking the problem with me not getting a desktop setup w/ Alpine on my RPi4 is not enough RAM....the RPi4 only has 1gb and I think it needs at least 2 or more.  The one on the way has 4g....we shall see....

[Hedon James]

51 minutes ago, wa4chq said:

Hey AB....They're fun little devices to mess around with.  I have several here and one more on the way.  I'm using them for Pihole, plane spotting, music server, MagicMirror....ham radio to access Reverse Beacon....

I'm thinking the problem with me not getting a desktop setup w/ Alpine on my RPi4 is not enough RAM....the RPi4 only has 1gb and I think it needs at least 2 or more.  The one on the way has 4g....we shall see....

^ That makes sense!  Most modern DEs require around 500MB or more, at IDLE.  Open a web browser and you're maxed.  I remember testing DEs and RAM usage once upon a time, and LXDE was the lowest consumer of RAM, hands down.  If memory serves correct, I was able to minimize startup services and track LXDE using around 150-175MB of RAM at startup, in an idle state.  But this was MANY years ago....before LXDE was merged with RazorQT into LXQT.

 

If your theory is correct, this is another good reason to install a WM-only environment on a Pi; and only start the services you want....that you'll absolutely need at startup.  Many WMs (Openbox, Fluxbox, PekWM, JWM, IceWM, WindowMaker) use less than 100MB of RAM at startup.  I crafted a custom desktop that I called Mimetic, in which I installed Fluxbox, and used the Fluxbox startup file to only call the LXDE GUI components I wanted (lxpanel, tint2, etc...), rather than the entire DE session.  I'd say it was a Fluxbox environment, with an LXDE "skin"; as opposed to an LXDE environment, with Flux as the WM.  IMO....this is definitely the way to go, FWIW!  And it doesn't have to be Fluxbox....that's just MY preference.  All the WMs I mentioned have very similar, although different, feature sets; and all are similarly utilitarian and frugal with resources.

 

For what you say you're using those Pis for, I definitely think you should look into WMs, rather than DEs.  JMO...

[wa4chq]

3 hours ago, Hedon James said:

^ That makes sense!  Most modern DEs require around 500MB or more, at IDLE.  Open a web browser and you're maxed.  I remember testing DEs and RAM usage once upon a time, and LXDE was the lowest consumer of RAM, hands down.  If memory serves correct, I was able to minimize startup services and track LXDE using around 150-175MB of RAM at startup, in an idle state.  But this was MANY years ago....before LXDE was merged with RazorQT into LXQT.

 

If your theory is correct, this is another good reason to install a WM-only environment on a Pi; and only start the services you want....that you'll absolutely need at startup.  Many WMs (Openbox, Fluxbox, PekWM, JWM, IceWM, WindowMaker) use less than 100MB of RAM at startup.  I crafted a custom desktop that I called Mimetic, in which I installed Fluxbox, and used the Fluxbox startup file to only call the LXDE GUI components I wanted (lxpanel, tint2, etc...), rather than the entire DE session.  I'd say it was a Fluxbox environment, with an LXDE "skin"; as opposed to an LXDE environment, with Flux as the WM.  IMO....this is definitely the way to go, FWIW!  And it doesn't have to be Fluxbox....that's just MY preference.  All the WMs I mentioned have very similar, although different, feature sets; and all are similarly utilitarian and frugal with resources.

 

For what you say you're using those Pis for, I definitely think you should look into WMs, rather than DEs.  JMO...

Thanks for the reply and info, HJ....when configuring Alpine, they offer kde, gnome, xfce...might be one more but that's it.  Maybe after you get it up and running you could switch over to something slimmer...  I'll see what happens with more ram.  I'm also having problems getting DietPI working.  Maybe it's my mojo....or lack of....lol

Edited May 17 by wa4chq

[Hedon James]

1 hour ago, wa4chq said:

Thanks for the reply and info, HJ....when configuring Alpine, they offer kde, gnome, xfce...might be one more but that's it.  Maybe after you get it up and running you could switch over to something slimmer...  I'll see what happens with more ram.  I'm also having problems getting DietPI working.  Maybe it's my mojo....or lack of....lol

Gotcha....I only referenced LXDE because I thought you mentioned it earlier.  And it is probably the BEST choice for a DE.  But it looks like you're correct, no LXDE in Alpine.  According to Alpine Wiki, here are your choices:

https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Desktop_environments_and_Window_managers

 

I note the verbiage "many are available and are attempted to be listed...", which suggests to me that others are available, and the list isn't comprehensive.  I note that all the WMs i mentioned are absent from that list, except OpenBox.  I find it hard to believe that Fluxbox isn't available.  It's not as popular as OpenBox, but it's still probably the 2nd most popular WM, and I have yet to come across a distro that doesn't have Flux in the repos.

 

Of the choices listed, I'd suggest LXQT and XFCE are similar with respect to resource usage.  LXQT will pull in OpenBox as a dependency, while XFCE will pull in xfwm4.  For that reason, I'd choose LXQT, as you'll be able to bypass LXQT at login and just choose OpenBox as a desktop session; I'm not sure xfwm4 will allow that.  OpenBox will allow you to modify the OpenBox start file to only include what you want (I'd suggest lxqt-panels to make it look like a DE....until you get used to the default look of OB with no other GUI elements).  I'm not a fan of OpenBox's syntax, which resembles HTML, but many folks like OB for that reason.  I prefer the plain english of Fluxbox, if available in the Alpine repos.  And OpenBox and Fluxbox are nearly identical in behavior, appearance, and features; so what applies to one, usually applies to the other.  the biggest differences, IMO, are that Fluxbox files are configured in plain text; Fluxbox has "tabbed windows" feature, which allows drag & drop windows to group them in same window (say 2-6 applications running displaying in ONE window, with tabs to choose what you want to see); and Flux has a "taskbar" to show system info and open windows/desktops configured (I disable this feature, but it's a +1 compared to OB).  Other than that....nearly identical.

 

You probably saw this already, but here's the LXQT installation:

https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/LXQt

 

If that works for you, happy to help you get setup to bypass LXQT at login and just start your WM.

 

EDIT:  Found this regarding Fluxbox on Alpine

https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Fluxbox

 

I'd suggest following that tutorial, and if you want a desktop that LOOKS like a DE, just install lxqt-panel separately, and autostart in Flux.  I can help with Flux, if you choose to go that route.  If you prefer OB, I can still help, but I'm a little weak with HTML syntax.  Either way, I'll do what I can for you. 

 

Edited May 17 by Hedon James

[wa4chq]

16 minutes ago, Hedon James said:

Gotcha....I only referenced LXDE because I thought you mentioned it earlier.  And it is probably the BEST choice for a DE.  But it looks like you're correct, no LXDE in Alpine.  According to Alpine Wiki, here are your choices:

https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Desktop_environments_and_Window_managers

 

I note the verbiage "many are available and are attempted to be listed...", which suggests to me that others are available, and the list isn't comprehensive.  I note that all the WMs i mentioned are absent from that list, except OpenBox.  I find it hard to believe that Fluxbox isn't available.  It's not as popular as OpenBox, but it's still probably the 2nd most popular WM, and I have yet to come across a distro that doesn't have Flux in the repos.

 

Of the choices listed, I'd suggest LXQT and XFCE are similar with respect to resource usage.  LXQT will pull in OpenBox as a dependency, while XFCE will pull in xfwm4.  For that reason, I'd choose LXQT, as you'll be able to bypass LXQT at login and just choose OpenBox as a desktop session; I'm not sure xfwm4 will allow that.  OpenBox will allow you to modify the OpenBox start file to only include what you want (I'd suggest lxqt-panels to make it look like a DE....until you get used to the default look of OB with no other GUI elements).  I'm not a fan of OpenBox's syntax, which resembles HTML, but many folks like OB for that reason.  I prefer the plain english of Fluxbox, if available in the Alpine repos.  And OpenBox and Fluxbox are nearly identical in behavior, appearance, and features; so what applies to one, usually applies to the other.  the biggest differences, IMO, are that Fluxbox files are configured in plain text; Fluxbox has "tabbed windows" feature, which allows drag & drop windows to group them in same window (say 2-6 applications running displaying in ONE window, with tabs to choose what you want to see); and Flux has a "taskbar" to show system info and open windows/desktops configured (I disable this feature, but it's a +1 compared to OB).  Other than that....nearly identical.

 

You probably saw this already, but here's the LXQT installation:

https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/LXQt

 

If that works for you, happy to help you get setup to bypass LXQT at login and just start your WM.

 

EDIT:  Found this regarding Fluxbox on Alpine

https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Fluxbox

 

I'd suggest following that tutorial, and if you want a desktop that LOOKS like a DE, just install lxqt-panel separately, and autostart in Flux.  I can help with Flux, if you choose to go that route.  If you prefer OB, I can still help, but I'm a little weak with HTML syntax.  Either way, I'll do what I can for you. 

 

Yep, I think think once everything is up and running, as long as the repositories are updated I think you could install anything you wanted.  I really don't care for any we've mentioned.  I use i3-wm 98% of the time.  BTW....the new RPi4 w/4gb of ram arrived and I've got Alpine up and running with XFCE! 

[Hedon James]

1 hour ago, wa4chq said:

Yep, I think think once everything is up and running, as long as the repositories are updated I think you could install anything you wanted.  I really don't care for any we've mentioned.  I use i3-wm 98% of the time.  BTW....the new RPi4 w/4gb of ram arrived and I've got Alpine up and running with XFCE! 

well there ya go...problem solved!  I never mentioned i3 cuz I have no experience with it, but I think that qualifies as a low-overhead WM.  Added bonus, I think that is SBs preferred WM, so I'm sure he can help you configure it!

 

Question on the failed Pi installations....I'd be curious to go back and install Alpine with terminal/CLI only (no DE, despite the choices), and then add the xorg and WM packages you like.  Getting a GUI DE running on a 4GB Pi seems to suggest your theory is correct.  And if your theory is correct, you've got some Pis you can install minimalist WMs on for your various projects.  Just thinking out loud...

 

Congrats on solving that.  Learned a LONG time ago...when using Linux, sometimes the solution is simply the hardware.

[wa4chq]

1 hour ago, Hedon James said:

well there ya go...problem solved!  I never mentioned i3 cuz I have no experience with it, but I think that qualifies as a low-overhead WM.  Added bonus, I think that is SBs preferred WM, so I'm sure he can help you configure it!

 

Question on the failed Pi installations....I'd be curious to go back and install Alpine with terminal/CLI only (no DE, despite the choices), and then add the xorg and WM packages you like.  Getting a GUI DE running on a 4GB Pi seems to suggest your theory is correct.  And if your theory is correct, you've got some Pis you can install minimalist WMs on for your various projects.  Just thinking out loud...

 

Congrats on solving that.  Learned a LONG time ago...when using Linux, sometimes the solution is simply the hardware.

I've been using i3 for many years....it's nice and simple and can be tricked out if you want....so I'm good in that department.  Regarding WM's....when I first started my Linux journey, I tried Blackbox but went with Fluxbox.  Used it for several years.....had that lookin' sweet.  No wallpaper, just a solid color.....and I'd have xsnow running in the background...

Edited May 17 by wa4chq

[securitybreach]

Agreed wa4chq