raymac46 Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 (edited) https://news.itsfoss.com/red-hat-restricts-source-code/ Interesting but I don't know how this will affect anything. Certainly not me. Not a good sign if you are a FOSS advocate tho. Edited June 23, 2023 by raymac46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abarbarian Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 Could be that they are restricting access to help with security. Possibly easier to trace bad actors perhaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 It may have a detrimental effect on CentOS, an excellent GNU/Linux that I played around with extensively years ago. It was basically the open source version of RedHat, but it's never been a favorite entity of Red Hat corporation. CentOS had many push and pull arguments with Red Hat over the years. https://www.centos.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abarbarian Posted June 23, 2023 Share Posted June 23, 2023 38 minutes ago, V.T. Eric Layton said: It may have a detrimental effect on CentOS, Possibly in the longer term if they close it down further but at the moment it seems to be an extra hoop to jump through. Quote I However, the open-source developer GloriousEggroll mentions that the developer subscription to RHEL is free. So, access to RHEL source code is still possible but inconvenient? Just want to to note here the Developer subscription is completely free and still allows access to RHEL and its source code if you want exact package sources. CentOS stream basically serves as a RHEL upstream so I understand this change. It may seem confusing for some people. — GloriousEggroll @gloriouseggroll@fosstodon.org (@GloriousEggroll) June 22, 2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted June 25, 2023 Author Share Posted June 25, 2023 It's complicated. CentOS Stream is now an upstream version of Red Hat so it isn't an absolute clone. The absolute clones of RHEL that are affected include Rocky Linux and Alma Linux. Developers can get a free licence to RHEL's source code but the licence agreement precludes them publishing or sharing it. Both Alma and Rocky have pledged to keep their distros rock stable and secure. Think of it like the early days of PCs where IBM was slightly different than Compaq and DEC machines although they all ran Windows 3.11 OK. This is more of a problem for big server farms than it is for a desktop user. But I have to say if I were starting up a webserver business today I'd be taking a long look at Debian. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrat Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Is this about source code for RH exclusive packages? I thought GPL mandates making source code available without restriction. Edit:- maybe so. I reread that link in OP: Quote Red Hat announced that CentOS Stream will now be the only repository for RHEL-related source code releases Quote But I have to say if I were starting up a webserver business today I'd be taking a long look at Debian. I knew a guy who was server admin for a large telco which used RHEL. He changed jobs to a major property website which used Debian and said Debian was light years ahead in ease of deployment and management. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 I'm not planning on setting up any servers, but if I were going to, it surely wouldn't be with Debian (because of SystemD). I'd go with one of the most stable GNU/LInux OSes for server applications... Slackware. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted June 26, 2023 Author Share Posted June 26, 2023 https://www.devuan.org/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 Yup. I'm familiar with Devuan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 26, 2023 Share Posted June 26, 2023 I never understood the systemd hatred. I think it works fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abarbarian Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 10 hours ago, securitybreach said: I never understood the systemd hatred. I think it works fine. So far for me it seems fairly easy to use. I have made a few hooks and extra service files with no problems. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 Red Hat Tries To Address Criticism Over Their Source Repository Changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrat Posted June 27, 2023 Share Posted June 27, 2023 2 hours ago, securitybreach said: Red Hat Tries To Address Criticism Over Their Source Repository Changes It's worth reading the linked blog post direct from RH exec - https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hats-commitment-open-source-response-gitcentosorg-changes TL;DR - we are a capitalist megacorporation. Suck it and give us money. I won't disparage RH too much though, they have done a lot for Linux. Personally I have never used any of their products so don't actually care one hoot. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) It's really one of those billionaires versus millionaires arguments. Red Hat would love to make the rebuilders like Alma Linux go away. They have a beef with the big IT companies who want a line for line compatible RHEL without paying anything for it. If you are a small fry developer or you just want to set up a home server or two, you can get a free RHEL licence, use the distro, get the source code. As far as personal use goes, I have tried out Fedora back when they were one of the few distros supporting a new AMD video card I had. It worked OK. Edited June 28, 2023 by raymac46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crp Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 On 6/26/2023 at 3:03 PM, securitybreach said: I never understood the systemd hatred. I think it works fine. i posted a video about some of the reasons a few months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 9 hours ago, raymac46 said: It's really one of those billionaires versus millionaires arguments. Red Hat would love to make the rebuilders like Alma Linux go away. They have a beef with the big IT companies who want a line for line compatible RHEL without paying anything for it. If you are a small fry developer or you just want to set up a home server or two, you can get a free RHEL licence, use the distro, get the source code. As far as personal use goes, I have tried out Fedora back when they were one of the few distros supporting a new AMD video card I had. It worked OK. Yeah but they literally have no choice unless they want to be sued over GPL violations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 3 hours ago, crp said: i posted a video about some of the reasons a few months ago. Was there a valid issue or just a different way of managing services? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crp Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 On 6/28/2023 at 3:36 AM, securitybreach said: Was there a valid issue or just a different way of managing services? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abarbarian Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 On 6/28/2023 at 8:25 AM, crp said: i posted a video about some of the reasons a few months ago. Just watched the video. I like his style of presentation and the information was neatly presented. It helped me to understand the differences between the two systems. The concerns raised at the end against systemd are a tad worrying. If it is easy to have logs in plain text then the developers decision to not do so is bizarre. As to the main instigator of systemd now working for Microsoft and also working on systemd well that is indeed bizarre and very worrying.Overall though I recon systemd's is more flexible and definitely easier for folk to customise to suit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 On 6/27/2023 at 7:57 PM, sunrat said: It's worth reading the linked blog post direct from RH exec - https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/red-hats-commitment-open-source-response-gitcentosorg-changes TL;DR - we are a capitalist megacorporation. Suck it and give us money. I won't disparage RH too much though, they have done a lot for Linux. Personally I have never used any of their products so don't actually care one hoot. That pretty much sums up my outlook. Although I would also add that I am reminded of the parable of how the Nazis seized power....paraphrased as follows: When they came for the cobblers, I said nothing, as I already had shoes; when they came for the bakers, I said nothing, as I don't eat cake; .....(and so on, and so on); and when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out. It is in THAT respect, that I actually care a LOT! This seems to be an IBM-driven decision. RedHat has thrived for YEARS, becoming the first "billion dollar enterprise" in the OpenSource community and is the proof of concept that the value in the software business isn't actually the software, but in the deployment, services, and support. RH did this while unambiguously complying with the spirit and letter of GPL licensing. They probably lost some customers to Centos and other clones, but the gains of larger enterprise customers FAR outweighed the losses. So much so, that IBM thought it was a wise investment to purchase RHEL. Then, in typical big-corporation fashion, they started to focus inordinately on "patching the leaks in the boat", rather than innovations for the boat's speed and/or maneuverability. And now they're in a tricky position, which may cost them on BOTH fronts. In their attempt to "shed free-loaders" and convert them to paying customers, they're just as likely to cause paying customers to leave, and pursue other providers of similar services (SUSE is an obvious choice, as a large corporate-backed provider with RPM compatible tools; with Canonical and Debian also valid contenders). I think the mistake being made here is IBMs to claim. They're operating as if their users have limited options other than to accept the imposed changes. But I think they don't understand the very core of linux users. A collective group who does not like being told how they can & cannot use their computers for productivity, and DESPISES being held hostage to a single entity dictating those terms. RH just took a step in that direction, and I think it WILL cost them. Maybe not immediately....but as support contracts reach their anniversary dates, I'd be willing to bet that more contract revenue will be lost to other providers than the "free-loaders" that they're trying to convert. The risk/reward ratio seems to be dangerously out of whack, IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 “It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it.” ~ Warren Buffett 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted June 30, 2023 Share Posted June 30, 2023 To put it plainly, my issues with SystemD are because: it was unnecessary -> SysVinit worked fine and dandy; using a simple text file for all settings/controls/customizations it's overly complicated -> violating the KISS fundamentals of UNIX it's system invasive -> meaning it utilizes, controls, manipulates many subsystems of GNU/Linux creating a system wide dependency on Systemd. I don't have anything against Lennart Poettering (a Microsoft engineer --formerly of RedHat, who developed SystemD and PulseAudio, which I HATE! He's a very smart fellow... and probably a good guy all 'round. He's not the AntiChrist. Having a degree in Electronic Engineering and having serviced electronics apparatuses for my entire career, I found early on that overly complicated designs are NOT always "improvements"; often, from a repair point of view, they are a pain in the rectal orifice and create higher costs in the long run for consumers. The simple things are always the best. That's a rule that holds true for most things in life. And I admit that I was a bit suspicious of a Microsoft Engineer piddling around with GNU/Linux and what the ramifications of that would be over time. . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted June 30, 2023 Author Share Posted June 30, 2023 Looks as if Rocky Linux has found a way to get the RHEL code that doesn't violate Red Hat's TOS. https://rockylinux.org/news/keeping-open-source-open/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrat Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 5 hours ago, raymac46 said: Looks as if Rocky Linux has found a way to get the RHEL code that doesn't violate Red Hat's TOS. https://rockylinux.org/news/keeping-open-source-open/ Goodonya, Rocky! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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