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onederer

Wow! this has to do with Linux and Windows10, together!

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Greetings!

 

After a long absence, I'm back. Less smart and much older.

 

I've stumbled upon a dilemma that you smart guys may be able to resolve. I was able to upgrade my Windows10 Home version to the Pro version, since my prior version was a pro version, I was able to use the serial number from Windows7 Pro to get upgraded without any financial expenses.

 

Now what I found out is that it was possible to run Linux on Windows10, so I followed up on that, and elected to install Ubuntu. After a lot of searching to find out why it would not install, I finally found out how to overcome that problem, and succeeded in the installation Ubuntu.

 

Oh, I thought that this was great! However, I found out that no GUI is available for this version, and only a console version was provided. No startx, no initX11, no start KDE. I did download those applications, including KDE, and Gnome. It was all futile. Perhaps it because I've become a happy user, and not much of a tinkerer with OS's anymore. So, I've forgotten a lot over these past years.

 

I believe that I've downloaded everything needed to make a GUI feasible. But with my luck, it didn't happen. This is where you come in. How can I make all of that, assemble together to get a working graphical application going? As of now, I can't install HPLIP for the printer. And many other things that need a GUI to be able tp operate. Does anyone know if that OS/Windows combination, was only meant to operate on a console only? If so, that's quite a bummer!

 

They were also offering other Linux OS's. One being SUSE server, Console only, also? Another Linux server (sorry, forgot it's name) and another Linux version which is a security probe version which it's name starts with "K". again, console only or with GUI?

 

So the other thing that bothers me is if this thing is a loser, is how to get rid of it in Windows10. Especially with all the things that I downloaded to try my experiment. Can anyone help me? The Linux BASH applications work fine in the console, But not my bag.

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officially, no gui for the Linux enviorenment of W10. However ...

Did you install an X-Server?

You might also need to enable 'Developer Mode' in W10.

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Its called Windows Subsystem on Linux and has been around since 2016. Its not a full ubuntu installation but it's made to have a bash shell on windows.

Bash on Windows is Microsoft’s solution to the problem and it aims to bring the entire Ubuntu userland, minus the Linux kernel to Windows. As a result, developers have access to the complete set of Ubuntu CLI tools and utilities.

 

https://www.linux.co...at-does-it-mean

 

It is possible to do though: https://virtualizati...m-on-linux.aspx

 

There are also a few others availble including OpenSuse, Debian and Kali. Mind you, these are only cli environments as well: https://docs.microso...l/install-win10

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Why bother jumping through all these hoops when you can install VirtualBox for Windows and then just run your Linux install in that?

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Well, doing it with full integration with W10, may be seen as a revenge that MS only provided a good working Bash Ubuntu version, without a GUI. So we only got a half Ubuntu, and no GUI. Add in the GUI, and no additional virtual application need be used. I downloaded an X server for W10. I still need to see how to manipulate it., and possibly install KDE as the GUI manager. The X server came from SOURCE FORGE.

 

My goal is to get a fully working UBUNTU as presented by W10. And that will happen when the GUI is also integrated with the BASH and Xserver system. Then it may be used as an example for other people to follow. Otherwise, if I can't do it, then I will trash the entire W10's UBUNTU Bash application I've no ambition of fiddling with command lines.

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Posted (edited)

here is Mageia 6 Plasma running on VirtualBox for Windows 6.06. This works fine for me and I don't want any further Windows integration. Your mileage may vary of course.

 

screenshotmay2resize.jpg

Edited by raymac46

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That is fine. However, using a virtual appliance to run an OS on a host OS, has already been done for a long time. Actually, my real preference has been to dual boot separately, Linux with Windows. However, this thing that W10 has created, is actual integration with the W10 OS, without the saddle of a virtual machine, hosting an OS.

 

The setback with what W10 has done, One, provided limited flavors of Linix. Two. only provided a command line OS, with no GUI to offer a better total experience. True, MS did was to initially help the developers. But when releasing it to the public. they should have made it capable of totally supporting a full version of Linux, without us having to contort things to attempt to totally make it work in a normal fashion. If one can accomplish that, many future people will benefit from this accomplishment. It would probably totally eliminate the need of a VM saddle that an OS sits on. Nothing wrong with a VM. But it's been around for a long time. Nothing new.

 

If you think that I'm wrong, I'd like to hear from you. For me, I'm looking for total success. If it can't be done, then I'm trashing and totally removing (deleting) the half-Linux integration. I'll go back to dual-booting with two separate hard drives.

 

I have a different question that's been bothering me. Texstar (Bill Reynolds). I heard that he has (or had) cancer. Anyone know his status? Is his OS still getting development?

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It was never designed for that. The whole thing was created to allow Window's developers access to the linux toolkit as a lot of Microsoft's products are developed using Linux. This includes their cloud platform Azure and even Windows 10 was developed using various linux tools. This is the reason that Microsoft is one of the largest contributors to the Linux kernel. It's not to benefit Linux but instead to provide compatibility and a developer platform for Microsoft's products.

 

https://arstechnica....linux-software/

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Also

That is fine. However, using a virtual appliance to run an OS on a host OS, has already been done for a long time. Actually, my real preference has been to dual boot separately, Linux with Windows. However, this thing that W10 has created, is actual integration with the W10 OS, without the saddle of a virtual machine, hosting an OS.

 

And that is why businesses have moved away from VMs to containers like Docker nowadays. Basically Docker allows you to create a container that can share the host's resources like the kernel, the binaries, libraries, etc. but can run an isolated application without being installed on the host. Think of it as instead of a whole OS being virtualized, you only virtualize your application.

 

For instance, I can create a docker container for a specific application like Apache running in a debian environment. I can fire up the docker container on any OS and the apache instance acts like a virtual machine running only apache under debian. I can update and configure the application in a console that acts just like if I were actually running Debian.

 

Now these containers only have a specific purpose and do not allow you to add more things to them but they have the benefit of being very lightweight and you do not have to worry about dedicating system resources to a vm. You can also share a configuration directory among all the various containers if you wish. Like if you had a samba or ftp server that needed access to the host's media directory/drive but also need access to the same media using a MPD audio server.

 

VMs have grown in popularity over the last decade because they let you run software predictably when moved from one server to another. Containers allow you to run tons of isolated systems on a single server or computer

 

Containers sit on top of a physical server and its host OS like Linux or Windows. Each container shares the host OS and its configs.

 

Because they share the same OS, only a single OS needs to maintained for bug fixes, patches, and so on. Because of this, containers are lighter weight and more portable than VMs.

 

This is part of the reason that Microsoft created the whole Bash on Windows thing. It's so that you can run containers and such, not so that you can actually run Desktop Linux on Windows. Docker uses the Linux kernel as the "hypervisor api" and that is why almost every major OS now support a linux kernel emulation layer.

 

Basically all this is driven by corporations and developers, not us lowly home users. Like always, Microsoft caters to businesses no home users.

 

Personally, I have only dabbled a little with containers even though they have been around for many years. This is mainly due to the massive amount of ram that my server has, so I do not really worry about the bloat. Containers are the future and most major companies have been using them for years already.

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Well, I understand that the Ubuntu application doesn't have a kennel. And I understand that the Ubuntu was not designed to support a GUI. But does anyone of you guys believe that this could be changed? Half of the Ubuntu is fully functional. Anyone believe that the other half be made workable? That's the challenge! Anyone have and idea how to achieve this?

 

If not feasible, I'll need help to totally remove this Ubuntu application. I want to make sure that the hard drive is totally been wiped clean, and the drive space is available for other uses.

 

I have to admit, I've never dealt with containers. How does that fit into this current setup? Anyone?

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https://virtualizationreview.com/articles/2018/07/17/reasons-to-not-use-wsl.aspx

 

I am not all that familiar with WSL but it still seems to me you are trying to use it in a way it was not designed for - namely to get a working graphical desktop. Maybe you will succeed, maybe not. But there are far more efficient ways to do it - VM, dual boot, separate hard drive, dedicated machine running Linux.

VMs are old news but they have come a long way especially VirtualBox. Many recent Linux distros have the guest additions baked in and work perfectly in a VBox virtual machine.

Here's a good article on Docker and the difference between containers and VMs.

 

https://medium.freecodecamp.org/a-beginner-friendly-introduction-to-containers-vms-and-docker-79a9e3e119b

 

Again this technology has much more to do with servers than with desktops.

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Also, I forgot to mention but there is an online repo docker container with over 2 million prebuilt containers to download and run without having to install anything but docker. https://hub.docker.c...h?q=&type=image

++++++++++++++++++1111111111111111111111111
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Certainly it looks possible, but as I read it you are still using a sort of virtual machine (although probably much closer to the rails than you get with VirtualBox.)

I don't think I'll try it because it apparently requires the same hypervisor tech as VBox and borks any VBox setups you may have.

In a way Docker reminds me of setting up an Arch distro. You just install what you need and don't get a lot of bloat.

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Well, based on what I tried, it was a flop. Nothing worked out. I even picked up an Xserver from SourceForge, hoping it would be the cure. Naw!

 

I do appreciate all your feedback. It was a nice effort. However, I've come to make a decision. And that is to wait until Windows10 gets a kernel, and see what happens from that point.

 

Thanks guys!

 

Now how do I get rid of all of the half-baked Ubuntu stuff that I downloaded? I need room for a new fresh start. That stuff is not in the control panel for removal.

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It wasn't made to actually run a desktop, it was designed so that developers have access to Linux cli tools in Windows.

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https://docs.docker....indows/install/

 

https://docs.docker....olbox/overview/

 

You could use one of the above , then follow below,

 

https://docs.docker....er-for-windows/

 

to get a full Ubuntu running on W10. Probably takes three or four clicks with time for downloading. :breakfast:

The last thing that I read about Docker is there is a turf war going on between two factions, to control Docker. Especially for BitCoins, and also install malware to hapless victims. I don't think that it's safe anymore to mess around with Docker. Do you agree?

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The last thing that I read about Docker is there is a turf war going on between two factions, to control Docker. Especially for BitCoins, and also install malware to hapless victims. I don't think that it's safe anymore to mess around with Docker. Do you agree?

 

Sounds like a load of FUD or total bo**ocks to me.

 

For example do you think this company would use Docker if they thought it was unsafe ?

 

 

PayPal Manages 200,000 Containers in the Cloud to Speed Transactions

 

A global leader in online payment solutions with more than 200 million accounts in over 200 markets and 25 currencies worldwide. PayPal facilitates global eCommerce by making payments possible across different locations, currencies, and languages.

 

https://www.docker.com/customers/paypal

 

:228823:

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Docker is open source and is constantly being audited, so I highly doubt that it's true

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Posted (edited)

If I remember correctly, it was reported by ZDnet (ZiffDavis). The two tangling factions were reported by name. They are supposedly vying for control of the servers, and to apply Linux sneak-ware in them.

 

What kind of services does Docker provide? How large is the spectrum, and different aspects of their services. If different companies all offer different types of services, isn't that a very desirable fertile field for farming, with sneaky malware? Is it not possible to take over such a service, with today's technology? I may have read it wrong, does Docker also handle bit coin farming server entities?

 

Thanks for your comeback :)

Edited by onederer

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Well Docker provide containerized applications and servers. Dockers and Kubernetes (used to manage containers) have dominated the market since 2014. This is from a year ago:

 

"According to Docker, over 3.5 million applications have been placed in containers using Docker technology and over 37 billion containerized applications have been downloaded."

 

https://www.zdnet.co...o-darn-popular/

 

Corporations have long since moved from virtual machines to docker containers:

 

Enterprise application development has reached a tipping point. I predict in 2019 new enterprise application development will rapidly shift away from legacy virtual machines (VMs) and strongly toward containers and Kubernetes container orchestration. VMware’s hypervisor-based business model is now under direct assault by the cloud industry.

 

Every public cloud service provider (CSP) has its own proprietary services. But the future is multi-cloud, which means creating common services between private clouds and proprietary public clouds. In the long-term, the ability to create applications that can run on any cloud, private and public, means adopting a standard container architecture, implementing a standard set of container accessible services and using Kubernetes orchestration.

 

Two high-profile acquisitions will accelerate new development away from VMs at the very start of 2019…

 

https://www.forbes.c...9/#5a8ebddf3cf8

 

What kind of services does Docker provide? How large is the spectrum, and different aspects of their services. If different companies all offer different types of services, isn't that a very desirable fertile field for farming, with sneaky malware? Is it not possible to take over such a service, with today's technology? I may have read it wrong, does Docker also handle bit coin farming server entities?

 

Thanks for your comeback :)

 

Dockers and containers are not a new thing as they have been in the industry for at least 5+ years now. Docker is an opensource application, not a company. Since they containerize an application, it could be used to farm bitcoin the same way that a virtual machine could be used to do that.

 

Docker is a free piece of software that allows users to develop and manage apps in an environment that takes advantage of Linux-based software containers. It's a great tool because it gives developers the ability to perform app management and development without needing to use a virtual server or any extra hardware. This basically means that you can get various IT infrastructure components to work together with much less troubleshooting than other methods.

https://alternative....ocker#read_more

 

I think that maybe you are not quite understanding what Docker is. This is not a bunch of companies offering different types of services. Docker is a software technology, just like virtual machines or other virtual applications.

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