Memory and video card questions

[telecomguy9]

I'm looking into buying a new motherboard and have been looking at memory and video cards. I have a couple of straightforward question for you. First, would two sticks of 256 MB PC3200 DDR 400 MHz memory be better than one stick of 512 MB PC2700 DDR 333 MHz memory?Second, am I correct in my belief that if I can get a 256 MB memory video card for the same price or a little more than a 128 MB memory video card it would be better (both being 8x AGP)?I'm guessing there's more to this than meets the eye. Let me know. Thanks.

[SonicDragon]

First, would two sticks of 256 MB PC3200 DDR 400 MHz memory be better than one stick of 512 MB PC2700 DDR 333 MHz memory?

I'm not a hardware person, so i can't say which would actually perform better. However, it's important to consider how many sticks can fit in your machine and what you may upgrade to in the future.Ex: I'm looking to buy a laptop soon and the one i'm looking at has two memory slots. 2 x 256 would be cheaper than 1 x 512, but in the long run, 1 x 512 would be cheaper when it comes time to upgrade. If i were to upgrade the 2 x 256, i'd have to throw one of the sticks out to be able to add another. With the 1 x 512, i could keep the 512 and just add another stick without having to throw one away.I hope that makes some scence. Sorry if that was confusing

Second, am I correct in my belief that if I can get a 256 MB memory video card for the same price or a little more than a 128 MB memory video card it would be better (both being 8x AGP)?

If you can afford it, more memory can never hurt

[Peachy]

If you get a motherboard with a dual channel memory controller than buying two sticks of memory might give you up to a 30% increase in memory performance. Otherwise, there is no big difference other than price. More graphics memory is always better than less.

[nilson]

DDR 400 is faster than 333. Go with 2 x 256; I would suggest 4 x 256 or more, though, if you want a nice gaming rig.

[epp_b]

Second, am I correct in my belief that if I can get a 256 MB memory video card for the same price or a little more than a 128 MB memory video card it would be better (both being 8x AGP)?

Not necessarily.My guess is that the 128 MB card has a faster GPU. Amount of VRAM can be misleading. It is an important factor, but don't leave out the GPU when considering a video card purchase.I had a choice between three video cards, all of which were ATI Radeons and had 128 MB of VRAM. One was $90, the second one was $130, and the third one was $180. They all had 128 MB of VRAM, but also had faster GPU's as the price increased. I bought the $90 card, as that's all I needed.Just something to consider.

[b2cm]

I agee with everybody. Get 2 of DDR400 if 512mb is all you would need.Epp is right, too. More video memory is always better but it's really the chip or GPU that really should matter. Here's a page that estimates "relative performance" of the many chips available. Find out where the 2 cards you are considering rank.http://users.erols.com/chare/video.htm

[Ed_P]

DDR is suppose to be more efficient when used in pairs rather than stand alone.

[GolfProRM]

This is all assuming that a) your motherboard runs with a 400Mhz FSB and your processor runs at a 400Mhz FSB.If Neither of these is true, then there's almost no point in buying DDR400 RAM. If either of these is 333, you're better off buying the DDR333 RAM as you don't gain anything by having 400.

[Peachy]

Most dual channel memory controllers now run at 400MHz to run synchronously with the 800MHz FSB Intel Pentium 4. Even the AMD motherboards now run the memory at 400MHz. So, that's another thing to consider since most motherboards since the last half of 2003 have been 400MHz memory boards, even the low cost single channel memory ones.

[Peachy]

Just to be clear, you can still run a single memory stick in a dual channel memory controller motherboard.

[telecomguy9]

Wow you guys are great. What a ton of info. Here is some more info on my end.I have a budget of only $400 for a new MoBo, CPU, RAM and video card. I game on this thing a little (a few hours a week). I mostly play games that are at least a couple of years old. Right now I'm into Jedi Knight 2. I upgraded my wife's PC a few months ago from a P3 700/256 MB RAM/16 MB nVidia Vanta AGP video to an Athlon XP 2000+/256 MB RAM/128 MB AGP 8x ATI Radeon 9200SE. The whole PC is faster, but specifically regarding the game it runs a lot better now, of course. I plan to upgrade to at least her PC's spec's. Here is exactly what she has, at least from the MoBo perspective:******************************************************--------[ AIDA32 © 1995-2004 Tamas Miklos ]--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Version AIDA32 v3.93 Author tamas.miklos@aida32.hu Homepage http://www.aida32.hu Report Type Quick Report Computer LAURA Generator harlau Operating System Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional 5.0.2195 (Win2000 Retail) Date 2004-04-28 Time 08:43--------[ Motherboard ]------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Motherboard Properties: Motherboard ID 08/06/2003-VT8377/VT8235-A7V8X-X Motherboard Name Asus A7V8X Front Side Bus Properties: Bus Type DEC Alpha EV6 Bus Width 64-bit Real Clock 133 MHz (DDR) Effective Clock 265 MHz Bandwidth 2122 MB/s Memory Bus Properties: Bus Type DDR SDRAM Bus Width 64-bit Real Clock 199 MHz (DDR) Effective Clock 398 MHz Bandwidth 3183 MB/s Chipset Bus Properties: Bus Type VIA V-Link Bus Width 8-bit Real Clock 66 MHz (ODR) Effective Clock 531 MHz Bandwidth 531 MB/s Motherboard Physical Info: CPU Sockets/Slots 1 Expansion Slots 6 PCI, 1 AGP RAM Slots 3 DIMM Form Factor ATX Motherboard Size 240 mm x 300 mm Motherboard Chipset KT400 Extra Features Q-Fan, CPU Overheating Protection, JumperFree, Stepless Freq Selection Motherboard Manufacturer: Company Name ASUSTeK Computer Inc. Product Information http://www.asus.com/products/mb/mbindex.htm BIOS Download http://www.asus.com/support/download/download.aspx*********************************************************************************I'm still hunting down MoBo's online, but have found the exact same bundle I got for her still for the same price (MoBo/RAM/CPU for $200). I'm sure I can get the same video card for the same price or less, too (I paid around $70 for it).At any rate, I doubt the setup I get will have a FSB of 333 or 400, but especially not 800. I don't have that kind of money. On the video side of things, I was told that a SE version of any video card is a kind of watered down version of the Pro or Ultra of the same kind. Does that sound right? I bought my wife a SE and it works great for what we do, but if I can get a non-SE I'll do that.B2CM, the link is great, but I'm having a hard time reading it. Looking at the 3 Radeon 9200's as an example, I can see that the core is different, the memory is different, and the bw (what is this?) is different. Are thos generally the things I should consider?Thanks again for the help, guys. I really appreciate it.

[b2cm]

Here are chips/models that are considered to perform better than Radeon 9200SE:Radeon LEGF DDRRadeon DDRV5 5500GF2 GTSKyro IIGF2 ProKyro II SEGF2 TiRadeon 7500Xabre 400Radeon 9000GF4 MX440GF2 UltraGF4 MX460Radeon 9600SEGF FX 5200Xabre 600Radeon AIW 7500Radeon 9000 ProGF FX 5200 UltraGF3 Ti200Radeon 9500ParheliaGF FX 5600Radeon 9100Radeon 8500LEGF3GF3 Ti500Radeon 8500GF4 Ti4200GF4 Ti4400GF4 Ti4800 SEGF4 Ti4600GF FX 5600 UltraRadeon 9600 ProRadeon 9600 XTRadeon 9500 ProGF FX 5700 UltraRadeon 9700GF FX 5800GF FX 5800 UltraRadeon 9700 ProGF FX 5900 XT (5900SE)Radeon 9800GF FX 5900GF FX 5900 UltraGF FX 5950 UltraRadeon 9800 ProRadeon 9800 Pro 256MBRadeon 9800 XTGF 6800 UltraI'd recommend GF4 MX440 (without the SE, 8X, 128mb) over Radeon 9200SE.

[epp_b]

b2cm, keep in mind, some of those are fairly pricey.Just thought I'd point something out. Jedi Knight 2 runs quite well on an ATI Rage Xpert 128 16 MB Card, AGP 2X (personal experience). A 9200SE would be more than enough for that game. The card I went with was a 9200SE, and it runs Need for Speed Underground -- which requires fairly intensive 3-D processing -- quite smoothly.IMO, the 9200SE is a decent cheap card that works well if you game occasionally. Hardcore gamers need not consider.

[Ed_P]

My ATI RADEON 9000 with 128MB runs 3D games well also and it can be found for about $100.

[telecomguy9]

epp_b, that's some interesting info in your last post. JK2 doesn't run so nicely on my PC, which you can see the MoBo info for below. The video card is an old AGP 32MB something DiamonViper, I believe. I have to set all of my video settings on low to be able to play it even close to smooth. It's good to know that for occasional gaming I don't need anything better than what I got my wife. I sort of knew this, but it's nice to hear it from someone else. As I said, it runs very smoothly on my wife's PC. Thanks for the help and info.

[Peachy]

Well, the Diamond Viper was the cat's meow back in 1998! Ah, those were the days - when cutting-edge video cards meant 60 fps!

[telecomguy9]

Here's a new question regarding MoBo's and dual channel. I've looked at a few MoBo's at newegg.com and can't see anywhere that any of them are dual channel capable. Is it a given that it will be capable? Also, does the MoBo have to support a certain number of slots (3 or 4)? Lastly, all of these MoBo's say something like FSB 400/333/266MHz. How do you set which speed it runs at or is it automatic to the speed of RAM you use?

[Peachy]

Figure out which chipset it has and you can then look it up. Most nForce 2 boards are dual channel as are the Intel 865P, 865PE, 865G and 875P, and the SiS 655. The only way to be certain is to go to the motherboard manufacturer's web site to verify.

[epp_b]

Go with a SiS chipset if you can. They're rock-solid.

[telecomguy9]

Well, when it all comes down to it I guess I just need to look at what I want versus what I actually need. My wife's setup works totally fine for me (she's just tired of me playing JK2 on her PC and not mine). Other than an occasional game there is nothing computer intensive that I do on her system. So I guess I don't really need anything better than what she has. I think I'll take all of this new knowledge you all have given me and see what I can come up with. Thanks for all your help.

[telecomguy9]

Sorry guys, but it looks like I have another question for you. I've notice on a lot of MoBo spec's or info I'm seeing this next to processors supported:AMD Athlon up to 2000+ @ 200 MHz FSB , AMD Athlon up to 2400+ @ 266 MHz FSB , AMD Athlon XP up to 2600+ @ 266MHz FSB , AMD Athlon XP up to 3000+ @ 333MHz FSB , AMD Athlon XP up to 3200+ @ 400 MHz FSB , AMD Duron up to 1.3GHz @ 200MHz FSB , AMD Duron up to 1.8GHz @ 266 MHz FSBI just thought of something. Does this mean, going by the above info, that if I got an Athlon XP 2000+ the FSB would only be able to run at 200MHz? So if I got a 2400+ it would only run at 266MHz? I'm trying to understand how these work together. If I wanted the FSB to run at 333MHz would I have to use something between a 2700+ and 3000+? That is how I'm reading it. Let me know if I'm mistaken. Thanks for putting up with me.

[b2cm]

An AthlonXP 2000+ (either a Palomino or Thoroughbred) would most likely have 266 FSB. The motherboard would give you the option to select 100 (200), 133 (266), 166 (333) or 200 (400). Some detects the processors (and memory modules) automatically and sets the appropriate FSBs.If you want a processor that runs at 333, you need a Barton AthlonXP (166). It usually starts at AthlonXP 2500+. It not only runs at 333 or 400 FSB but also features larger cache.If you want a 266 chip (cheaper than Barton chips), specify Thoroughbred, not Palomino.I agree with Epp. If you want a trouble-free mobo that really affordable, try SiS chipsets. They're not fast but they're very stable, reliable. Otherwise, get an Nforce/2/3 chip. Consider Asus, MSI or Epox designed boards.

[Peachy]

Intel chipset motherboards are stable, too! I currently have an ASUS P4PE (Intel 845PE) as my main home computer and it has not crashed at all since I built it in December 2002. The Pentium 4 1.6A has been overclocked since day one from 100MHz FSB to 135MHz FSB.

[teacher]

I have two of the Intel PEBT845 motherboards and they have been rock stable. I had overheating problems on one computer but a change of CPU fans and case fans seemed to take care of the problem and that was while doing heavy-duty rendering!Julia

[telecomguy9]

b2cm, you've come through again! You're great. What you said makes sense. I'm looking at a Barton core CPU, a mobo w/FSB of 400/333/266, dual channel memory DDR400, too. It sounds like, if I understand things correctly, if I get this XP2600+ Barton core CPU,the mobo I'm considering (Chaintech nforce2 Ultra 400),then two PC3200 256MB sticks of memory (Kingston ValueRAM 256MB PC3200),and set them up in dual channel I'll have a system where all of these buses and stuff are working well. Does that seem right to you all? Or is the PC3200 overkill with this setup? I checked on PC2700 at newegg.com and found it odd that it was more expensive (for Kingston) than the PC3200.

[Peachy]

If you plan on using a Barton core Athlon at 400MHz FSB then you definitely need PC3200 as it is rated to run the memory at 400MHz.

[telecomguy9]

Peachy, that's what I thought but all of this new information is swimming around in my head and I'm afraid I might be getting confused on some things here and there. Thanks for the reply.

[b2cm]

That Barton CPU is probably 333. The 400 chips begin at 3200+. Make sure it's a Barton chip. There's also a Thoroughbred-B 2700+ that is 333. It has 256kb L2 compared to the 512kb L2 of the Barton chip. Still if you can afford the DDR400 memory sticks the better. Kingston is a very good brand. And 512mb is enough to run games effortlessly on XP (Win98 is sluggish on Nforce2). My kids can play Need for Speed-Underground well on XP with just a single 256mb DDR333 stick on an Nforce2-400 (Palomino 1800+) and a GF4 MX440/8x/64DDR. Sorry, I haven't any experience with Chaintech. I'd still recommend Asus, MSI or Epox. I agree with Peach and Teach on Intel. But it's expensive, and I feel that a good portion of what I would pay for the processor/board would just go to cover the Intel overhead or brand name.

[Peachy]

I wouldn't buy the Intel branded boards myself, but meant Intel-based chipset on ASUS motherboards. Still, ASUS does tend to be more expensive than anyone else.

[telecomguy9]

Okay, the Barton is a 333 MHz, not 400. My bad. Thanks for pointing that out. The DDR400 Kingston sticks are actually less expensive (on newegg.com) than the DDR333's. Weird.