Jump to content

Recommended Posts

V.T. Eric Layton

... up Verizon's phone records for U.S. citizens.

 

Way to go Big V. You suck your customers dry and then betray them to Big Bro.

 

"Business ethics"... what a contradiction in terms that's become over the last few decades. :(

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 61
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • crp

    11

  • V.T. Eric Layton

    8

  • ross549

    7

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

... up Verizon's phone records for U.S. citizens.   Way to go Big V. You suck your customers dry and then betray them to Big Bro.   "Business ethics"... what a contradiction in terms that's bec

Xtra! Xtra! Read all about it...   http://noctslackv1.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/invasion-of-the-data-snatchers/   http://noctslackv2.wordpress.com/2013/06/07/invasion-of-the-data-snatchers/   htt

Yuppers. And I believe EVERYTHING the government tells me these days.   James R. Clapper?   Clap on. Clap off. The Clapper!   http://youtu.be/cfgN5tUgjb8  

Verizon got caught here, and I would tend to think all the major carriers got caught up in this nonsense. Secret order of secret interpretation of secret law. :rant: Yet silence from the MSM. but hey, no bias there. [rant and sarcasm off]

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Temmu

your cell has gps, a mike and a camera, can be turned on remotely, and your gov't gives you one free.

so, you are surprised that the nsa does this?

 

cuba simply posts a person for each block to record residents comings and goings and associations.

 

high tech or low tech, we gotcha covered.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
amenditman

I'm with crp, we just found out about Verizon, but they all must be under orders to do this.

Hopefully there will be enough publicity and outcry that they will all be exposed.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

If you want to see the articles about this topic and haven't seen them yet, easy to get them by doing any search with the following items in the search, "nsa verizon phone records".

 

Even the mainstream media gets this one is bad.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you want to see the articles about this topic and haven't seen them yet, easy to get them by doing any search with the following items in the search, "nsa verizon phone records".

 

Even the mainstream media gets this one is bad.

Sure , go ahead and read the articles, and also the additional stories that all the major social sites are getting sucked.

but if you do, don't be surprised when your door gets broken down in the middle of the night.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

People have a right to read articles, even derogatory articles about government and corps. Even the mainstream press is all over this, not just alternative news channels and outlets.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

Yes, it seems the rabbit hole goes very deep, sadly...and according to EFF been going on for at least 7 years!

 

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/confirmed-nsa-spying-millions-americans

 

NOTE: EFF website is either being hit by a ./ effect (hard to believe since they can generally handle a great amount of traffic), or they are being hit with DDoS attacks? I could get to the site off and on today.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Temmu

7 years - laugh-out-loud!

 

in the 1970's, the telcos were all complaining because the fbi was demanding access to so many ports on their switches that they literally could not afford to give them. read that in popular science, then!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

Since the site is off and on not available, and EFF doesn't mind being reprinted, here's the article:

 

Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans

 

Today, the Guardian newspaper confirmed what EFF (and many others) have long claimed: the NSA is conducting widespread, untargeted, domestic surveillance on millions of Americans. This revelation should end, once and for all, the government's long-discredited secrecy claims about its dragnet domestic surveillance programs. It should spur Congress and the American people to make the President finally tell the truth about the government's spying on innocent Americans.

 

In a report by Glenn Greenwald, the paper published an order from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (or FISC) that directs Verizon to provide “on an ongoing daily basis” all call records for any call “wholly within the United States, including local telephone calls” and any call made “between the United States and abroad.”

 

In plain language: the order gave the NSA a record of every Verizon customer’s call history -- every call made, the location of the phone, the time of the call, the duration of the call, and other “identifying information” for the phone and call -- from April 25, 2013 (the date the order was issued) to July 19, 2013. The order does not require content or the name of any subscriber and is issued under 50 USC sec.1861, also known as section 215 of the Patriot Act.

 

There is no indication that this order to Verizon was unique or novel. It is very likely that business records orders like this exist for every major American telecommunication company, meaning that, if you make calls in the United States, the NSA has those records. And this has been going on for at least 7 years, and probably longer.

 

This type of untargeted, wholly domestic surveillance is exactly what EFF, and others, have been suing about for years. In 2006, USA Today published a story disclosing that the NSA had compiled a massive database of call records from American telecommunications companies. Our case, Jewel v. NSA,challenging the legality of the NSA’s domestic spying program, has been pending since 2008, but its predecessor, Hepting v. AT&T filed in 2006, alleged the same surveillance. In 2011, on the 10th Anniversary of the Patriot Act, we filed a FOIA lawsuit against the Department of Justice for records about the government’s use of Section 215 – the legal authority the government was relying on to perform this type of untargeted surveillance.

 

But at each step of the way, the government has tried to hide the truth from the American public: inHepting, behind telecom immunity; in Jewel, behind the state secrets privilege; in the FOIA case, byclaiming the information is classified at the top secret level. In May 2011, Senator Ron Wyden, one of the few courageous voices fighting against the government’s domestic surveillance program, said thisin a debate about reauthorizing Section 215:

 

I want to deliver a warning this afternoon: when the American people find out how their government has secretly interpreted the Patriot Act, they will be stunned and they will be angry.

 

Today is that day. The American people have confirmed how the government has secretly interpreted Section 215. And we’re angry. It’s time to stop hiding behind legal privileges and to come clean about Section 215 and FISA. It’s time to start the national dialogue about our rights in the digital age. And it’s time to end the NSA’s unconstitutional domestic surveillance program.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

7 years - laugh-out-loud!

 

in the 1970's, the telcos were all complaining because the fbi was demanding access to so many ports on their switches that they literally could not afford to give them. read that in popular science, then!

 

I know Temmu, I thought the same thing, but I think they meant this particular level of interpretation of the Patriot Act.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

Specifically the seven years since PRISM collection went into effect as noted in The Guardian article that mac posted.

 

Here's an graphic about it:

 

Prism-001.jpg

 

And this one:

 

PRISM-slide-crop-001.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

yes, the depth and breadth is appalling.

and how many preventions did this 'PRISM' in particular provide?

Now that they could point to 7 years ago, the MSM can protest. If it goes back to mid-90's the MSM will clam up again.

 

I just want to add to the people (columnist, politicians, bureaucrats,etc ) claiming that there is no problem with doing this,

then why was this kept as a secret enforcement of a secret legislation in a secret court?

Edited by crp
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

We still have not heard from Scot how long this forum has been handing over or allowing government access to the datum on this forum.

And I am not joking.

I left IRC years ago becuase of the "black hat/helicopter" and 'tin foil' garbage, but now ...

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

UPDATE 1 - U.S. surveillance revelations deepen European fears of Web giants - Reuters

 

Europeans reacted angrily on Friday to revelations that U.S. authorities had tapped the servers of Internet companies for personal data, saying such activity confirmed their worst fears about American Web giants' reach and showed tighter regulations were needed.

...

 

"The U.S. government must provide clarity regarding these monstrous allegations of total monitoring of various telecommunications and Internet services," said Peter Schaar, German data protection and freedom of information commissioner.

 

"Statements from the U.S. government that the monitoring was not aimed at U.S. citizens but only against persons outside the United States do not reassure me at all," he said.

 

This problem is certainly not ours alone. This is a universal problem for the world as well as for us. Doesn't reassure me either that they say it was not intended to be used against our own Citizens. It still can be used against our own Citizens. And now they say don't worry, it wasn't intended to be used against us and that is supposed to make us feel better?

Edited by LilBambi
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

More from that article,

 

Mikko Hypponen, chief research officer at Finnish software security firm F-Secure, said outrage was the appropriate response to the U.S. revelations.

 

"What we have in our hands now is the first concrete proof of U.S.-based high-tech companies participating with the NSA in wholesale surveillance on us, the rest of the world, the non-American, you and me," he said.

 

I think Mikko Hypponen is right. Non-Americans should be outraged.

 

But not only non-Americans should be outraged. I think Americans should be outraged and appalled as well. Whether the government says this was intended only for use outside the US or not. That is irrelevant. This should not be done inside or outside the U.S.

 

Not to mention that it still gives the same authority to do it here in the US against US Citizens.

 

And what will be the response from some non-American countries. What is good for the goose is good for the gander?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

We still have not heard from Scot how long this forum has been handing over or allowing government access to the datum on this forum.

 

And I am not joking.

 

I left IRC years ago becuase of the "black hat/helicopter" and 'tin foil' garbage, but now ...

 

Since even Google, et al apparently had no idea about this and it was likely being done above their knowledge level at the Tier 1 level, I am sure Scot, nor any of us would have any knowledge of that either.

 

See Larry Page's posting:

 

What the...? - Google Blogs

 

And a very good idea of how this could happen and sites and companies not even know about it:

 

 

PRISM: Here's how the NSA wiretapped the Internet - ZDNet

 

 

The U.S. National Security Agency's PRISM program is able to collect, in realtime, intelligence not limited to social networks and email accounts. But the seven tech companies accused of opening 'back doors' to the spy agency could well be proven innocent.

 

...

 

The wording on the fourth slide described the "dates when PRISM collection began for each provider," and not, for example, "dates when each provider began PRISM collection."

 

One by one, nearly all of the named companies denied knowledge of either knowing about PRISM, or providing any government agency user content, data or information without a court order or a search warrant.

 

But during that time, almost everyone forgot about Verizon. It's the cellular and wireline giant that makes the whole thing come together.

 

 

Well worth reading. Makes a lot of sense.

Edited by LilBambi
Link to post
Share on other sites
ross549

Since even Google, et al apparently had no idea about this and it was likely being done above their knowledge level at the Tier 1 level, I am sure Scot, nor any of us would have any knowledge of that either.

 

Seeing as the entire forum is public and the only private information are PMs, email addresses, and IP addresses, I doubt Scot would knowingly set up something like that. Such information is contrary to the philosophy here.......

 

Adam

Link to post
Share on other sites
amenditman

We also have to consider the fact that there might be penalties in place if the companies disclose what they do know about.

Link to post
Share on other sites
ross549

Hmmm... I wonder what the real story is... fearmongering, laziness, or some other agenda......

 

 

Adam

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

The really interesting thing is that they are just bring the result into line with what the government is saying. It doesn't say anything about whether or not the capability is in place due to the wording of the document released about Verizon. And other Tier 1 service providers like AT&T, Spring, Verizon, etc.

 

The document that was released about Verizon and is likely true about all Tier 1 service providers, pretty much makes it clear they can do this to anyone; foreign or domestic. There are no restrictions.

 

The only part that is in question now is whether it's foreign or domestic or both with regard to Prism. The Verizon document is not in question.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest LilBambi

Oh, and that only lets domestic off the hook. Foreign countries around the globe are still in the loop.

 

BTW: I was gratified that Ed Bott maintained the original and was able to show what changed. WIth 1984'esk abilities today, you would never know unless you did that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
V.T. Eric Layton

Oh, yeah! I hear ya!

 

Great piece there Eric. :yes:

 

I liked it so much I posted it on all my blogs. :)

 

Fran, any plans to talk a bit about this on CNIRadio tonight?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...