Ed_P Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 eMachine 433Windows 98SE4GB Seagate hard drive64MB RAMThe owner had tried to reinstall the OS from the Recovery CD and had problems after formatting the hd and running the Recovery, so I now have it. In running the Recovery CD and selecting the Format option the process hangs half way thru loading the CABs to the hd. Usually about the same spot but not always.I booted DOS and ran Scandisk and Format. The Recovery disk still would hang. Ran FDISK, same problem. I have gotten by the problem by booting a PI disk and installing Win98 clean. However periodically when running the Windows Updates the hard drive hangs with: Disk Write Error. Unable to write to disk in drive C: Data or files may be lost.Press any key to continue.Pressing a key does nothing I have to turn the pc off and back on to reboot. Rerunning the Windows Update works but then hangs on another update. After finally getting all the Windows 98 Critical and Recommended updates applied I ran a Scandisk under Windows. It hung about 38% of the way in.I have run Memtest-86 for hours with no errors reported. I have run all of Seagate's diagnostics on it several times and they all come up clean. I have run Scandisk from DOS, including Surface scan, repeatedly, with no errors found. I have cleaned the heatsink fins and fan on the processor and lubed the fan, with no impact on the problem.I suspect the hard drive but how can I prove it? And if not the hd, what else could it be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eksimba Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Have you checked the cable connecting the HD to the motherboard? It may need to be reseated (or even replaced). Then again, it may not; but it's something you could check... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Several things you can do:Check cables like eksimba suggested.Run Scandisk and do a surface scan.(The thorough option)Check what brand of hard drive and go to there website and download the diagnostic utility for it. Run the basic and thorough tests on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zox Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Shot in a dark but try replacing ide ribbon cable with one that you know it works from another computer.Also another suggetsion, pull the ribbon of HD from motherboard and plug it in second IDE channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 Run Scandisk and do a surface scan.(The thorough option)Check what brand of hard drive and go to there website and download the diagnostic utility for it. Run the basic and thorough tests on it. I have run all of Seagate's diagnostics on it several times and they all come up clean. I have run Scandisk from DOS, including Surface scan, repeatedly, with no errors found. Everyone suspects a cable, interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Will definitely give it a try. Thanks guys. :)BTW The SCANDISK I ran, via DOS, I also use to burn in new disks. SCANLOOP.BAT:LOOPSCANDISK /surface /nosummarygoto LOOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Whoops!Overlooked your scandisk statements. Cables are the thing to check. Also power supply. Wierd things can happen with weak P/S and e-machines are known for having crappy PS units. To test with you can get a regular ATX PSU and plug it up to everything. If that corrects your problem then I would order a new PSU for it. Directron.com carries those mini-atx sized(but better quality)units that e-machine likes to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rons Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Nathan,You are being to kind referring to the PSU on e-machines. I have replaced a few of those mini units myself. All 3 were 433 units. Coincidence??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Nathan,You are being to kind referring to the PSU on e-machines. I have replaced a few of those mini units myself. All 3 were 433 units. Coincidence??? I use to work for a service company, Equant, that did warranty work for Best Buy, Circuit City, and others. I've seen LOTS of e-machine power supplies and modems. I know that it got so bad that Best Buy pulled the plug on E-machine for a while. 1 in 5 emachines came back to Best Buy for service under warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 (edited) Well after running a dozen or so Scandisk Surface scans I booted to Windows, it came up fine. I installed Nero sw for the CD-RW, rebooted then downloaded Acrobat Reader and installed it and started the reboot. Oops, no more hard drive listed in startup display. Searching for Boot Record from CDROM..Not FoundSearching for Boot Record from Floppy..Not Found202 Drive not readyTime to play with dem cables. UpdateUnplugged/replugged the IDE cables, rebooted, hard drive found and Windows came up. However the install of Adobe Reader wasn't evident. So I dbl clicked on the downloaded file again, it started the install process and while waiting for "the Setup to be recomposed" the pc hung. C+A+D has no effect. And while writing this we're back to the BSOD.Will play more with the cables, but HOW can I run a dozen surface scans over several hours with no problems and now that I'm trying to do something productive with it I'm getting the stupid BSOD again? The hardware, cables included, are the same in both situations. #$&@# Edited March 19, 2004 by EdP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Will play more with the cables, but HOW can I run a dozen surface scans over several hours with no problems and now that I'm trying to do something productive with it I'm getting the stupid BSOD again? The hardware, cables included, are the same in both situations. #$&@#Because the other work involves different components. More memory, CPU flops, and video card work is involved in running windows then in a simple dos based "I do one job" application.Don't underestimate bad power. Replace the power supply. IMHO it is number one on the probable fault list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 (edited) Well the dang thing is working. I reached a point where I could reproduce the problem. Everytime the Acrobat Reader install reached 39% it would hang the system. Replugging the hard drive's cable had no effect. Reversing the cable din't help. Shutting down background apps didn't help. I switched the CD-ROM cable over to the hard drive and the install ran to completion. I even did a Defrag successfully. Very, very strange problem, in that the drive worked as it did. I really thought there was a bad spot on the hard drive the way it was acting.Thanks for all the support on this guys. Not sure about the power supply but I'm definitely going to replace the cpu fan. The noise is driving me crazy.UpdateSo much for this "successful story". Was searching the web with it for a question on the CD-RW and the pc froze. Was able to C+A+D but the reboot shows the hd gone again. The power supply eh? Edited March 19, 2004 by EdP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rons Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 EdPIt does get frustrating sometimes. I think we have all been there and done that. So you are in good company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 It could well be the hard drive, but before condemning the hard drive, I would strongly suggest putting it in another computer as the C drive and see if it boots OK in another computer.Nathan could still be very right on the power supply ... power supply problems can cause some really weird and flakey behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 So you are in good company Yes I know. For a while longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b2cm Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Keep IDE devices to a minimum (2 or less), and swap power plug for the hard disk with one that has the shortest line to the power supply unit. If that line has another plug on it, do not to use this extra plug. Let the CD-ROM share its power supply line with the system fan and the floppy disk drive. Start the machine and try to reproduce the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 This machine's power supply doesn't have a lot of plugs to choose from. One line feeds the floppy and add on CD-ROM the other feeds the hd with the extra plug in the middle unable to reach it. Tiniest ps I've ever seen. I took it out of the case last night and opened it. I had vacuumed the case originally to remove the dust and had cleaned the fan on the pw so I was quite amazed to see the amount of dust inside this thing. Apparently the owner or prior owner smoked close to it. I suspected that the dirt could be shorting so I vacuumed it and cleaned it with q-tips and reinstalled it. PC booted and seemed fine until I had it run a defrag. Half way thru it hung. I have a spare case or two but I really don't want to totally rebuilt the stupid thing. They can buy a whole new system for $500. Have to rummage thru the parts boxes for a ps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b2cm Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 OK. Always a good thing to clean out the dust.When it hangs, try touching the disk if it is overheated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b2cm Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I have a spare case or two but I really don't want to totally rebuilt the stupid thing. They can buy a whole new system for $500. Have to rummage thru the parts boxes for a ps.Missed that one and was about to recommend it. But if the spare case (better PSU, temp management) solves the problem, just charge your client for it?Careful with Thorough Scandisk and Defrag operations. If the disk is failing, these might just kill it. If it aint the board chips or capacitors, IDE cable, power supply, chances are that the disk's electronics is failing that the cpu is losing contact with the disk under certain conditions (overheating maybe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted March 20, 2004 Author Share Posted March 20, 2004 I've got the machine on a temporary backup ps and am doing the 2nd defrag. It looks like the ps was the problem. Thanks guys, I never would have suspected a weak ps. I don't know if the CD-RW that had been added weaken it or the dirt inside it or possible power surges. It was only a 112W SFX unit.I do defrags because they are the heaviest hitter to work the system without a lot of my intervention that I can think of. If the hd was the problem and even if I lost it it didn't matter. It had been formatted before I got it and everything I've done is recreatable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rons Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 EdPI'm glad you found the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 I've got the machine on a temporary backup ps and am doing the 2nd defrag. It looks like the ps was the problem. Thanks guys, I never would have suspected a weak ps. I don't know if the CD-RW that had been added weaken it or the dirt inside it or possible power surges. It was only a 112W SFX unit.I do defrags because they are the heaviest hitter to work the system without a lot of my intervention that I can think of. If the hd was the problem and even if I lost it it didn't matter. It had been formatted before I got it and everything I've done is recreatable.It wasn't the load. As I have stated. E-Machines of that time period are KNOWN to have faulty PSU units. 1 in 5 fail. You can go to directron.com for about $30-$40 get a proper sized unit at 200 or even 300 watts that is much better then the P.O.S. that e-machine saddled with your unit. Better buy is to get a new case that is Mini-ATX sized but can take full ATX power supplies. Will result in a better machine with a wider upgrade path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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