An Uncertain Future

[raymac46]

One of the greatest technical pleasures of my retired life has been the discovery and learning that centers around the use of Linux on the desktop. I've rescued countless good machines from the scrap heap, kept my mind active and enjoyed all the safety and security that Linux brings me. Yet even as I sit here happily running the latest version of Xubuntu 12.04 I have to worry a bit for the future. Not for Linux as a server and embedded O/S but as a desktop system.

Here are a few things that concern me:

(1) Long term growth is a problem. Desktop Linux has never really reached the tipping point where it'll be a significant player and as a result never gets any sort of mass marketing that'll build market share. Pre-installs are few and far between in the market and the quality isn't that good. I don't include Android in here because that is not really a classic desktop Linux distro and even Android's place in the tablet and smartphone universe is not totally assured. There's going to be a huge Windows-Apple war on the tablet front and what'll happen to Android?

(2) Can't make money at it. When a giant like Pat Volkerding is living on the edge and doing his thing purely for the love of the game, there's something basically wrong if you ask me.

(3) Too much forking around. Independent thought is great but given the desktop Linux market size I wonder if we have too much choice of DE and supporting software. Is there any real user research going into (say) the Gnome 3 development or do the developers just decide what they think we want? I suppose you could level this argument at the O/S giant as well but I have to think they do some user testing - and they do try for a uniform GUI whether we personally like it or not.

(4) Locking down the PC. If Windows 8 has its way there'll be a security lockdown on hardware that'll severely restrict the installation of Linux alongside Windows. It'll be a real PITA for the experienced user and a complete barrier for the new user. This one really scares me.

 

Do any of you share my concerns or am I being unduly pessimistic today?

[ichase]

Ray,

I would say there may be some pesimistics views in your post and I can respect that based on the fact that I have been somewhat pesimistic in my thoughts lately, but you do bring up some great points. Let's face it, Linux will probably always be 3rd in the OS game. As unfortunantly as it is, money talks.

 

The desktop market is quickly going away for all players. We live in a "Mobile" age where the tablet and phone is convenient. Even laptop sales are lower. Linux developers know this and will probably not put a lot of emphasis and personal time into developing for desktops and neither will the top 2.

 

As far as Pat, I wish there were move people in the world like him who follow their dream and do what they love. To feel so pasionatly about something and to put your heart into it like he does. Thing is, like I mentioned above, money talks. Many people would love to do what Pat is doing but don't because they need the security that comes from a stable job environment. I do hope many Slackers kick a few dollars Pat's way for his effort. I don't use Slackware but I kicked a few dollars his way because I BELIEVE in what he is doing.

 

As far as "Forking around" that is in my opinion fundamentaly what makes Linux so great, the colaborations of thousands of minds putting their tallents together for all of us to use. As far as testing, we do have that ability. Most if not all OS and DE are put out in BETA for all to try and test and to provide feedback.

There is an old saying that is so very true.

You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can not please all the people all of the time"

Linux is and always will be about choice, but if you are wishing upon a star that Linux will be on top, it's not going to be. That is not pesimistic thougtht, that is fact.

 

I live by a moto: Everything happens for a reason I belive many good things are going to (and already have) come from the GNU/Linux community and I am not talking about just OS and Software.

 

Kick back and enjoy the show. I know I am.

 

Thank you for your thoughts Ray, you have been putting out some great food for thought lately, enjoy reading your post.

 

Ian

Edited June 16, 2012 by ichase

[securitybreach]

I understand what you mean RayMac but honestly I am glad that Linux is not mass marketed and is not more popular than it already is. Luckily right now, the majority of Linux users are intelligent and willing to learn. That will not be the case if Linux gets mass marketed. Linux is and always will be a tinker's operating system and I am perfectly happy with that!!!

 

There is a whole lot of money to made from Linux. Look at IBM, Canonical, Redhat and others, they are making a killing off of Linux:

Red Hat: The first billion dollar Linux company has arrived

 

Many open source developers develop in their free time. Take Martin Nordholts for example. He's a developer of Gimp in his free time but he is also currently a Software Engineer at Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications. Most projects are funded by donations that can go anywhere from paying for server resources, renewing a domain, or simply go into the developers' pockets (which it should since they work on it). Much of the Linux kernel revenue comes from the server market and generous donations from companies like Novell and Red Hat. Heck even Microsoft contributes to the Linux kernel. The difference is Linux makes money their money off of a different model. Instead of selling their OS, they make their money from providing support and deployment to companies

 

As far as Android, neither Microsoft nor Apple will affect Android's offerings. People like choice and with Android, you can buy a device any size or color from low-end to high-end devices. If anything, it will be a "war" between Apple and Android (and there currently is between Samsung and Apple) since they are the only ones who currently matter in the mobile world. Android is definitely not going anywhere as the majority of embedded devices are running Android and there is a huge market of various companies producing devices that run Android from smart tvs to touchbased appliances. Sorry to say, but so far Microsoft is a joke as far as mobile devices are concerned. Their Windows phones have pretty flopped so far and I do not think that their tablet will do any better.

 

Just my opinion, take it for what it is....

[V.T. Eric Layton]

(1) Long term growth is a problem. Desktop Linux has never really reached the tipping point where it'll be a significant player and as a result never gets any sort of mass marketing that'll build market share. Pre-installs are few and far between in the market and the quality isn't that good. I don't include Android in here because that is not really a classic desktop Linux distro and even Android's place in the tablet and smartphone universe is not totally assured. There's going to be a huge Windows-Apple war on the tablet front and what'll happen to Android?

 

GNU/Linux was not and never will be a commercially viable product. It is open source. Even the commercial ones like Redhat are copied 100% by free versions like CentOS; all perfectly legal. The money in Linux is not in desktop mom&pop service. It's in industrial IT (server side and business systems), where Linux is taking more and more of the market share from MS Windows. I couldn't care less if GNU/Linux ever becomes any kind of commercial success. I hope it doesn't, actually. It would change things dramatically once the greedy ones took control.

 

(2) Can't make money at it. When a giant like Pat Volkerding is living on the edge and doing his thing purely for the love of the game, there's something basically wrong if you ask me.

 

Pat created something and offered it to the world for free. I don't think he ever intended to become the next Bill Gates. Open source is a whole 'nother world from the commercial computing market. Making money with Linux knowledge is very possible right now. Actually, Linux IT people are in the highest demand right now.

 

(3) Too much forking around. Independent thought is great but given the desktop Linux market size I wonder if we have too much choice of DE and supporting software. Is there any real user research going into (say) the Gnome 3 development or do the developers just decide what they think we want? I suppose you could level this argument at the O/S giant as well but I have to think they do some user testing - and they do try for a uniform GUI whether we personally like it or not.

 

For me, choice is the absolute joy of open source and GNU/Linux. Lack of choice was where I had already been... MS Windows. I don't want to go back. Linux is Linux is Linux. The only real difference between distros is the eye candy appearance and the package management systems. If you understand one Linux thoroughly, you should be able to use any Linux.

 

 

(4) Locking down the PC. If Windows 8 has its way there'll be a security lockdown on hardware that'll severely restrict the installation of Linux alongside Windows. It'll be a real PITA for the experienced user and a complete barrier for the new user. This one really scares me.

 

Yup. This is going to be interesting. However, as of now, it only affects ARM hardware, as far as I know. I'm betting that MS is focusing on ARM because it's probably the hardware they're using for their new WindowPad that will be running Win 8 w/ Metro exclusively. They don't want customers buying a WindowPad and then installing another OS on it. That's my guess about that. I could be totally off-base.

 

Since I don't buy store bought manufactured systems, I really don't care about the alleged lock out of other operating systems on MS Win licensed hardware. As long as I can buy motherboards and other components in the raw and build my own systems, that lock out won't affect me. And sadly the vast majority of mom&pop computer users won't care either because they've never even heard of another OS other than MS Windows.

 

Just my thoughts...

 

Thanks for posting your recent thought-provoking topics, Ray.

[raymac46]

I won't worry about the lockdown if there's some way to turn off the Windows 8 UEFI switch that will be in the x86 hardware as far as I can see. Besides I only need one instance of Windows in the house to do a few things still difficult under Linux - like Income Taxes and cleaning up the sound on old LPs. Income Tax preparation will soon be a cloud app anyway.

I'll be happy if I can still install Linux on older machines and have Windows 7 supported for a long time where I do need it. That way I might not run into this issue for a decade anyway.

On the Linux side of things I'm really settling in with Linux Mint 13 and Xubuntu 12.04 - both LTS and with desktops I really like. I could run these happily for 5 years and by then a lot of the future issues will be sorted out.

I was just sorry to read about Pat Volkerding though. Maybe he doesn't want to be Jobs or Gates but in my view he deserves to live where he likes and have health insurance. Not a lot given his contribution to the Linux community.

[securitybreach]

I completely agree with your opinion Eric!!!!

[Cookie]

What a compelling thread. I love this place.

I do not think that Andriod has anthing to worry about in the future. Numbers are showing that Andriod is trending up at an alarming pace. It is on pace to outstrip iTunes in regards to the volume of apps downloaded soon.

But, consistency and quality is the main concern for Linux moving forward. i saw it myself recently. A guy I know was interested in exploring Linux. Really legitimately intrigued by the whole FOSS thing. But, he got a hold of a distro that is not as polished as some of the others. It froze up on him a couple of times...that's all it took. He is back to Windows and has no real desire to go exploring for the foreseeable future.

 

 

There are those of us that would say "Well, good riddance. He did not have the disposition to really give Linux a shot." But, that mentality is the problem. The overwhelming majority of computer users do not want an OS they are going to have to tinker with. The intricacies of the personal computer is not important to them. Their computer is a work tool, a creative outlet, a source of mindless entertainment, or a way to meet chicks. If Linux could create and properly MARKET a distro that would provide all of these things without the high price tag of a Mac or the crappiness of a Windows PC, then we would not be a distant 3, we would be a close 3.

 

 

"But dude, we already do that. Ubuntu and Mint are everything you just mentioned and so much more." And I agree. But, no one knows about them.

Here's an idea. What if Ubuntu or Mint or whoever, MARKETED a 32 or 64g persistent thumb drive. Best Buy would pick that up. MARKET it as a “Pocket OS.” Your OS, Apps, Pics, and Files all in one portable package. Every computer you see is YOUR computer. Just spit-balling, but I think that is a legitimate way to appeal to the average consumer.

What are your thoughts?

[lewmur]

All you have to do is read my sig to know my opinion on the matter. People have been predicting the demise of Linux on the desktop for years. Ain't gonna happen.

 

edit: After posting this, I noticed that my signature no longer appears with the new forum software. "The growth of Linux may be slow but so is a lava flow. And you ain't gonna stop either one." How do I get it back?

Edited June 17, 2012 by lewmur

[securitybreach]

edit: After posting this, I noticed that my signature no longer appears with the new forum software. "The growth of Linux may be slow but so is a lava flow. And you ain't gonna stop either one." How do I get it back?

 

Just re-enter your signature on your profile and you will be all set.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Cookie,

 

Some thoughts...

 

Someone coming from MS Windows to GNU/Linux is going to have a steep learning curve. If they are not at all technically oriented, that curve will be a wall, practically. Any operating system requires some general knowledge of its use and capabilities. The sad thing is that the personal computer manufacturers, along with Microsoft, wanted to market the computer so that it would be appealing to any user, not just nerds and geeks.

 

The way they did this was to market a highly complex machine to the public as though it was as simple to use as their televisions. A computer, with all its hardware and software maintenance necessities, is more closely related to the automobile than it is to the television. Because of this greed-motivated marketing ploy, many millions of computers have been sold to mom and pop and aunt Sadie. None of them knew a thing about the device or its behavior; just as the majority of folks haven't a single clue how the Internet works, or its inherent dangers.

 

For GNU/Linux to become more popular on the world market to those same moms and pops and aunties, it will have to "become" more MS Windows-like. Why? Because MS mastered that area of marketing already. I, for one, would NEVER want to see GNU/Linux fall into the hands of greedy profiteers who would do all they could to squeeze every cent they could out of it, regardless of whether it's good for the operating system or not. Fortunately, since there is no one GNU/Linux entity that can be marketed/manipulated due to its GPL status and open source/community creation, we will probably never have to worry about it.

 

For years now, I've been reading these same regrets that GNU/Linux doesn't have the popularity or profitability of MS Windows or even MacOS. My thoughts each time this comes up are the same... why does GNU/Linux need to be in that competition? What for? What would be the advantages? GNU/Linux will continue to evolve and improve. It will continue to gain a few converts along the way. it won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

 

Let the big boys on the block fight it out. GNU/Linux can just sit back and enjoy the show. It's not a popularity contest. Those of us who use GNU/Linux know its advantages. We're happy penguins. The rest of the unwashed masses are welcome to join us. They have to make some effort, though. I haven't inaccurately referred to MS Windows operating system users as "point 'n click zombies" all these years. GNU/Linux takes some thought, intelligence, and effort to use. We like it that way.

 

Regards,

 

~Eric

[zlim]

Actually lava doesn't flow slowly from an active volcano.

The lava from Mt. St. Helen's flowed at 60 miles an hour (100 km per hour).

A glacier flows slowly.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Money flows slowly into my bank accounts.

[Cookie]

Eric, I see what you are saying about the big wigs and what Linux would have to become to compete with those clowns. You made a lot of good points and you are very right.

 

I just see what it is and want everyone to know how sick it is. You know, most people I speak to about Linux have the hardest time wrapping their mind around the FOSS concept. They keep looking for the hook. I see a group of extremely passionate and competent philanthropists who are screaming in the dark that there is a better way. And their message is met with suspicion and disbelief.

There are also a good number of people in the world who NEED Linux. My house is right across the street from an apartment complex. A good number of the people in this complex are factory workers and just plain dirt-poor. These people cannot afford the computer system their kids need for school. The $300 it costs for a bargain basement laptop from Radio Shack may as well be a Million. But, if “we” did a better job letting people know that “we” are out here enjoying this great OS on a ten year-old POS computer, and they can too; a lot of good would come out of it. I bought an ancient Dell desktop yesterday at the thrift store. I slapped Bodhi on it, and am now typing this post on a computer that has no business being as useful as it now is. The Big Two would tell me that this machine is obsolete and I should upgrade. But Linux says...”I can make that work.”

 

These are merely the ramblings of a cook...

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Canonical (Ubuntu) has gone a long way down the road to introducing the world to GNU/Linux. More publicity requires more money, though. And sadly, very few hardware manufacturers (Dell was an exception for a while) or retailers are willing to forgo profits in order to provide a GNU/Linux-based systems to what is currently a very, very minuscule market segment. It's a Catch-22 situation. In order to be marketed broadly, GNU/Linux needs to be more popular so that it would be appealing to the capitalists who would make it more popular by marketing it.

 

What we really need are more people like Ken Starks and more organizations like The Helios Initiative.

 

A note on my use of the term "GNU/Linux" when writing about the open source operating system based around the Linux kernel developed by Linux Torvalds:

 

1) Linux refers to just the kernel.

 

2) Combining the Linux kernel with the GNU operating system gave us GNU/Linux, the proper name for the operating systems that we've all come to know and love by whatever their chosen names may be... Slackware, Ubuntu, Arch, Gentoo, etc.

 

Read more about this here --> https://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html

 

Have a great day!

[crp]

I still think that if microsoft doesn't release a keyboard & mouse friendly desktop OS, that the Linux desktop will at least double. I also think Linux use will increase if the cost of the OS continues to be the main cost of a Windows pc. (Apple users obviously are not nearly as price sensitive)

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Linux use will at least double? That means that GNU/Linux use would go from slightly less than 1% of the market to just about 2%, huh?

 

Pick 10 people at work or in the street tomorrow and ask them what Linux is. I doubt even one would be able to tell you. If the general populace doesn't know there are alternatives to MS Windows and Apple/Mac, then what choices would they have for computing needs? GNU/Linux will NEVER, EVER be able to compete in a capitalist manner with commercial products.

 

Even if you spent $1 billion on a marketing campaign with flashing lights, TV commercials, direct mail, etc. You still wouldn't get more than a 10% increase in GNU/Linux users worldwide. Why? Two reasons... 1) average mom & pop users don't want something foreign and new, and 2) average mom & pop users don't want to be bothered to have to learn something new.

 

In order to understand fully the HUGE mountainous obstacle that GNU/Linux would have to overcome to begin to compete with the commercial products in the everyday user categories, you have to look at it from a 20-something person's point of view or that of the retired teacher or bus driver next door. You can't consider this from a knowledgeable GNU/Linux user's point of view.

 

Joe Bus Driver is not going to build his own system. He's not going to want to take the time to learn anything new. When his old Win 98 systems takes its last gasp, he's just going to go down to the local Best Buy with the wife and let the 20-something sales kid tell him what he needs... a new HP with Win 8 in it, most likely. Joe will lay down his $500+ bucks and off he'll go. He will NEVER even consider looking at his owner's manual; his wife might, though.

 

Now, if you were in that store when Joe comes in, how would you sell him on a GNU/Linux? From Joe's point of view, there would be only one thing appealing about it.... the price of the operating system itself. He'd still have to buy a new machine. He'd still have to wipe it and install GNU/Linux. He'd still have to learn how to use GNU/Linux. He'd still have to settle for the fact that many of his programs and games that he uses daily won't work in GNU/Linux. He'll have to find substitutes or do without. It would require EFFORT. Fat, unhealthy, lazy Joe ain't gonna' wanna' deal with that.

 

Invariably, when I get into conversations with people in real life regarding computers, if I mention that I don't use MS Windows on my computers, I ALWAYS, without exception, get this blank look from them in response. It's never failed. They then say something like, "What else is there?" or "How can you use your computer without Windows?" This is the market with which GNU/Linux is currently dealing.

 

As far as MS Windows losing users because of their apparent transition to a more mobile-looking operating system, myeh... I doubt they'll lose many. Eventually, even the stubborn will move on to the newer Win versions. I was reluctant to move from 98SE to XP, but I did. I had to because the hardware on my newer machines needed the more advanced OS; just like today's newer hardware performs to its designed levels with Win 7.

 

This is all just the way it is... as I see it, anyway.

 

Later...

 

~Eric

 

P.S. Yeesh! Haven't typed as much in ages as I have on this thread. What a blabberface I am.

[raymac46]

Most of us were likely introduced to GNU/Linux by another advocate at one point. SueD and I corresponded on another forum and at that time I was musing about the advisability of upgrading an old Windows Me machine to XP. She told me to try Linux out and later suggested I come over here if I had any questions.

I got into it largely because the software was free (as in beer) and later was sold on its security and good performance.

However I'm not exactly your Windows hugging senior citizen. I've had close to 45 years of working with computers - punch cards and FORTRAN, time sharing and BASIC, PETs, VIC-20s, 64s, Amigas, DOS, Windows. I'm a retired scientist so technical stuff doesn't scare me. I agree with Eric that it's very hard to get the average person to think beyond what they buy pre-installed. I doubt that many Android/Apple users are even aware that they are working in Unix land and uncomfortably close to Linux.

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Heh! I knew SueD from the Delphi - Firefox forums. I brought her over here. Six degrees of separation and all that...

[crp]

Linux use will at least double? That means that GNU/Linux use would go from slightly less than 1% of the market to just about 2%, huh?

yes, maybe, maybe 3%. if the costs of W8 remain high then perhaps the users in poorer countries will go from XP to linux as the XP hardware dies.

Pick 10 people at work or in the street tomorrow and ask them what Linux is. I doubt even one would be able to tell you.

I live in Seattle, at work at least 4 people know what Linux is.

...

In order to understand fully the HUGE mountainous obstacle that GNU/Linux would have to overcome to begin to compete with the commercial products in the everyday user categories, you have to look at it from a 20-something person's point of view or that of the retired teacher or bus driver next door. You can't consider this from a knowledgeable GNU/Linux user's point of view.

I'm not expecting Linux to compete in terms of being 30% of users desktop OS. But in terms of being known as a viable option and getting to 5%? I'd take that bet for the year 2016.

...

As far as MS Windows losing users because of their apparent transition to a more mobile-looking operating system, myeh... I doubt they'll lose many. Eventually, even the stubborn will move on to the newer Win versions. I was reluctant to move from 98SE to XP, but I did. I had to because the hardware on my newer machines needed the more advanced OS; just like today's newer hardware performs to its designed levels with Win 7.

one more time, the issue is not the look , the issue is usablity on a desktop system. If you want to include the issue of one and only one Metro app showing on a screen at one time as a "look" instead of "usability" then fine, one aspect of the look will drive people away (maybe to W7 or XP, but drive away nonetheless)

[V.T. Eric Layton]

Hopefully, crp, we'll all be around to see how this turns out. What with politics and war and global warming and famine, etc., I sometimes wonder if we will be. Ah! But that's a topic for another day.

 

Good topic/discussion. I enjoyed it.

[sunrat]

I still think that if microsoft doesn't release a keyboard & mouse friendly desktop OS, that the Linux desktop will at least double.

Win 8 will have a traditional desktop interface, it will just be harder to find.

Pick 10 people at work or in the street tomorrow and ask them what Linux is. I doubt even one would be able to tell you.

I had a call last week from Optus, my phone provider and former ISP, offering me some free cloud storage space. "What OS do you use, Windows or Mac?" Me - "Linux". Optus - "What's that?". Only a call centre employee, but it's a typical response from General Public, and only a little surprising for someone in the business.

[saturnian]

Invariably, when I get into conversations with people in real life regarding computers, if I mention that I don't use MS Windows on my computers, I ALWAYS, without exception, get this blank look from them in response. It's never failed.

 

 

Yeah, I'm very familiar with that blank look!

 

1) Linux refers to just the kernel.

 

2) Combining the Linux kernel with the GNU operating system gave us GNU/Linux, the proper name for the operating systems that we've all come to know and love by whatever their chosen names may be... Slackware, Ubuntu, Arch, Gentoo, etc.

 

I think that most of us here know all that. But in conversations like the ones mentioned above, if I start out saying, "I don't use Windows at home," the next thing I'm gonna say is, "I use Linux."

 

Not: "I use GNU/Linux."

 

Hearing "Linux" is already an instant turn-off for most people. I think saying "GNU/Linux" would just seal the deal. It's the proper name, but it's so unattractive, awkward, bulky, etc., that I don't even bother using it when writing. It's unfortunate that someone can't come up with something better. I like it in that it helps to educate everyone as to what GNU/Linux is really all about, but I wonder if the insistence on using that name isn't just driving us all a little further into the land of the geeks.

[crp]

[...]

I think that most of us here know all that. But in conversations like the ones mentioned above, if I start out saying, "I don't use Windows at home," the next thing I'm gonna say is, "I use Linux."

 

Not: "I use GNU/Linux."

[...]

I still can not figure out how to get both quotes quoted when replying so I'll just reply using the above as a "marker".

I would not use the term "GNU/Linux" unless the only tools installed were GNU. Since I always install at least Apache and KDE , I stick to "Linux"

And since we were recently talking about Linus , here is his take from way back when in comp.os.linux.misc:

Umm, this discussion has gone on quite long enough, thank you very much. It doesn't really matter what people call Linux, as long as credit is given where credit is due (on both sides). Personally, I'll very much continue to call it "Linux"

and sometime in this century (can't find the original but it is mentioned here) he said calling Linux general "GNU/Linux" I think is ridiculous

Edited June 19, 2012 by crp

[sunrat]

I still can not figure out how to get both quotes quoted when replying so I'll just reply using the above as a "marker".

Click "MultiQuote" in each post you want to quote and a little box appears bottom RHS. Click Reply in that box and all the posts you wish to reply to will appear in the reply edit section. You can the edit out any irrelevant bits and add your own replies.

[crp]

Click "MultiQuote" in each post you want to quote and a little box appears bottom RHS. Click Reply in that box and all the posts you wish to reply to will appear in the reply edit section. You can the edit out any irrelevant bits and add your own replies.

Which would have been extremely user unfriendly as I just wanted to quote the Eric section that Santurnian had quoted when quoting the Santurnian post. If there is not way to do it, i'll just use the post link and point users to that.

[saturnian]

I still can not figure out how to get both quotes quoted when replying

 

Click "MultiQuote" in each post you want to quote and a little box appears bottom RHS. Click Reply in that box and all the posts you wish to reply to will appear in the reply edit section. You can the edit out any irrelevant bits and add your own replies.

 

Which would have been extremely user unfriendly as I just wanted to quote the Eric section that Santurnian had quoted when quoting the Santurnian post.

 

It isn't so bad.

[crp]

http://forums.scotsnewsletter.com/index.php?showtopic=55721&st=25#entry353602

No Fair! those were short posts!

[sunrat]

Yeah the Quote buttons don't copy quotes from a post. You could use the MultiQuote button to copy the quote from the original post.

[zlim]

I help mainly senior citizens. They go to a big box store or a registered refurb store and buy a computer (with windows on it). They don't purchase a new computer too often. They know how to fire up IE so they can get and send email (webmail in most cases), create documents and databases in Office and perhaps play a game or two included with the windows version they have.

Learning something new is hard and it is more of a struggle for older people. They expect to turn on a computer and use it with not too much of a learning curve. They expect to follow the directions, attach a printer and have it work.

In fact, some people do not know what version of windows they are running. They call for help and that is usually the first question I ask.

1) I don't try to talk them into using a different browser (they might not even be aware that there are choices besides IE)

2) I help them learn the ins and outs of the new windows version (some friends in their 80s just moved from win 2K to win 7 at the end of last year)

3) I get rid of the bloat on the new computer and explain what and why I am removing "programs"

4) I install security software and show them what all those icons near the clock mean

5) I either write notes or have them take notes while I show them how to do something (example: my friend lost his favorites bar in IE 9 and the icon I put there for his juno webmail disappeared)

 

Sad but a fact: None of my seniors (15.4% of the state's population) would be looking at linux. They want to use a computer and either don't have the time or the inclination to tinker.

 

When people admire my 7" netbook, I simply say it does not run windows. It runs something called linux. Some have heard of it while others just say "oh".

[V.T. Eric Layton]

I think that most of us here know all that. But in conversations like the ones mentioned above, if I start out saying, "I don't use Windows at home," the next thing I'm gonna say is, "I use Linux."

 

Not: "I use GNU/Linux."

 

Oh, I don't say "GNU forward slash Linux" in conversation, either. That short history lesson above was for Cookie, primarily. He may have not ever heard that term or know the history behind it. I use it often in text communications. In real life, I just say "Linux", like 99.99% of us.

 

It's unfortunate that someone can't come up with something better.

 

How 'bout GNUnix? Pronounced --> guh-new-nicks