Cluttermagnet Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Sorry, I couldn't resist that reference to Al Franken's new book in my subtitle. Heres another article about the ongoing debate over Broadband Over Power Lines The lies that are coming from folks who stand to profit from BPL are simply stunning. Any knowledgeable person, be they ham radio operator or CBer or shortwave listener (SWL) or anyone with governments or the military who works in the 'HF' short wave spectrum can learn the locations of the various BPL test sites and drive there with a mobile radio and personally verify that BPL puts out a raucus din that would spell the death of most shortwave radio communications if ever widely implemented. An FCC commissioner was forced to backtrack from her glowing praise about the future for BPL at a recent conference of industry types, and is now saying that the FCC does care after all whether or not BPL will cause interference to licensed users of the radio spectrum. It will, and in spades, if ever allowed to go into widespread use- Japan has wisely banned it premptively.The FCC is charged with regulating that spectrum for all, and to prevent new sevices from causing harmful interference to incumbent users. There is some evidence that a majority of the commissioners are trying to weasel out of that historic responsibility and hand it over to the BPL industry to trash, in total violation of their charter. Laws could be passed, however, which would allow them to wash their hands of any responsibility for the carnage that would ensue if BPL were allowed to catch on.This article was recommended to me as being reasonably balanced in its coverage, for a change, instead of the usual industry-written fluff, and this seems to be the case. It does repeat the denials and lies of BPL company execs and lawyers, however. Most laypeople will not be able to personally determine who is telling the truth because they lack radio communications expertise. They will have to form their own conclusions based on the debate, not necessarily a good thing, as industry has quite a lot more money to throw at PR than any of the many spectrum users who stand to be displaced. There exist only a limited number of demonstration projects so far, some of which were not widely known about for a time. There is some reason to believe that these sites may have intentionally been kept 'low profile', rather than the more ethical practice of making industry-wide notifications to potentially affected radio users. We hear stories about some concerned radio amateurs who found it almost like pulling teeth to get the precise location of rumored industry test sites out of the FCC. They eventually did, and upon driving near and into these neighborhoods, found very significant radio interference being radiated by the power lines, which act as pretty efficient antennas ('unintentional radiators'). This is all just another sorry chapter in government/ industry collusion. Such things have gone on for years and know no political favorites, being fairly equal in popularity among Democrats and Republicans. Whether or not BPL gets widely deployed in the US remains to be seen, but it is a realistic possibility, alas. Money talks. Remember, if this thing gets going and you personally purchase or lease a BPL modem and start using your power company as your ISP, know for certain that you are contributing to inflicting severe harm on the radio communications of some of your neighbors and fellow citizens, effectively driving many of them off the airwaves. Having BPL would be like throwing your garbage over the back fence and expecting your neighbors to put up with it. There is some potential for BPL users to suffer litigation from neighbors or to be contacted by FCC and required to make difficult technical adjustments to try to decrease the amount of radiated interference. Also BPL users may find themselves complaining to FCC when a licensed neighboring radio transmitter opens up at high power and brings their data rate to a crawl. Under present law, they would have no basis for such complaints, and the BPL electronics would be expected to tolerate such unintentional interference from licensed users. But they wouldn't, as some tests have already indicated.I hope that BPL withers on the vine- because it surely would grow up to be a killer of HF radio communications. Cable, DSL, both are way better than BPL for a number of reasons. And true FTTP (fiber to the premises) or 'last mile' fiber optics would be dynamite and displace all the others, once technical hurdles are overcome. This fabulous bandwidth might in turn usher in the next fabulous 'killer application' in computers. BPL is just lame. I hope the public sees it for the snake oil that it is and ignores it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichNRockville Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Can we safely assume that you are a HAM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Can we safely assume that you are a HAM?Yes, since age 13- and I went on to work as an electronics design engineer.If you include all the radio amateur operators in the US along with all the CBers and shortwave listeners, not to mention many government and military agency users, you are talking about many millions who will be devastated if BPL catches on and becomes widely used. BPL creates a most ungodly racket. You simply have to hear it to understand just how bad it is. From the perspective of licensed, incumbent users of the HF radio spectrum today, BPL is nothing less that a giant, distributed RF jamming system that would be devastatingly effective in driving them from the airwaves. Many incumbent users are either totally unaware of this menace or have not yet fully comprehended its implications for them. Just recently, the Austrians cut short a BPL demo project due to demonstrated harmful interference to licensed radio services, including the Austrian Red Cross.BPL and HF radio communications are totally incompatible, and if implemented, BPL clearly would 'win'. The FCC has traditionally been charged with management of the radio spectrum, which is a public trust of a 'commons', as it is easily possible to trash specific frequencies through improper (unlicensed) operations, or in the case of BPL, the entire HF radio spectrum gets trashed simultaneously. Over the years, the FCC has done a pretty good job of balancing competing interests and administering the use of the radio spectrum to the best advantage of all. That began to change in recent years, however, due to national political concerns, and today FCC seems to be unabashedly supporting BPL, dog that it is, for its potential to marginally increase broadband availability overall in the US. Their process has become politicized both from within and without in regards to a number of current issues such as this one, with a minority of the commissioners sometimes loudly dissenting that the rulemaking of the majority is not in the public interest. The motivation appears to be an over- the- top drive to support American business at all costs, to the exclusion of any other competing interests, and D*** the consequences. It appears they are no longer able to work in good faith as a neutral or 'disinterested' party and to provide wise stewardship of the airwaves, but rather are driven by an overall concern for business interests coming from 'above' (federal government executive and legislative branches mainly).This battle may be won or lost to some degree in the court of public opinion, but most of the skirmishes now are at the FCC or congressional level. Both are taking heavy flak right now as incumbent users weigh in on the catastrophic interference potential of BPL. Here are some more resources that give a lot of good, detailed background information about the issue, including some video showing radio amateurs with a mobile radio setup driving around various BPL sites and easily demonstrating that even a few homes wired with this technology consistently cause harmful interference to radio communications in the vicinity. Widespread dissemination of this technology is a radio communicator's worst nightmare.Here and here are some shorter summaries of the BPL issue. The second one points out radio amateurs' well known practice of providing communications during emergencies, such as power outages during natural or man-made disaster situations. Although it is not widely known, the 'hams' are often the only line of communication initially after the power grid and the cellular phone systems fail. A particularly good example of this was Hurricane Andrew, which flattened central Florida a while back. Hams were your one and only comm option for days after. BTW this is all done by ham volunteers who make no money- they always donate their services, and indeed it would be illegal for them to charge for this in any case. You can bet your bottom dollar the hams were out in force providing radio comms during the recent east coast hurricane and the terrible fires in the US west. This is a proud tradition of demonstrated public service involvement which the BPL industry wishes to wipe out, whether or not they will admit it, so that they can make a fast buck for a few years prior to being obsoleted and replaced by FTTP (fiber to the premises). Let us hope that this ill- conceived technology never gets 'off the ground'. Its effects would be much more far reaching than most folks realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowpike Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 Very InterestingI do not have a strong "background" in this area but I have become interested in "Network" communications since setting up our home network including WiFi. Also as an HVAC mechanic/Stationary Engineer I see what's coming down the pike. **** your furnace will be "phoning home" when something goes haywire.I remember an article, back a couple of years ago, discussing BPL and even then the interference issue was addressed (or a least mentioned). Sorry I don't have the url.You are wise to get on your "soap box" now my friend Including myself, It's amazing how quickly folks jump on "new" technology without really appreciating some of the repercussions. Look at the trend in wireless computer networks. How many folks operate unsecure wireless (or broadband) nets?When I setup connections for friends/relatives I (now) insist on firewalls, even routers for single PCs. With wireless, at least mac filtering and 128 WEP.While they follow the advice, "Paranoid" always comes into the discussion. As the problem becomes more well known they recognize how important "connection security" really is though.With that, I applaud your advocacy. Say it early, say it often, say it loud!Good Luck and Thanks !yellowpike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddy Posted January 9, 2004 Share Posted January 9, 2004 I've tried video over power lines and power line networking and the results were disappointing. Granted I haven't tried these products recently, but why bother with the alternatives already available?My question is what is the reality of long distance broadband networking over noisy-by-design unshielded wires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 Including myself, It's amazing how quickly folks jump on "new" technology without really appreciating some of the repercussions. Look at the trend in wireless computer networks. How many folks operate unsecure wireless (or broadband) nets?When I setup connections for friends/relatives I (now) insist on firewalls, even routers for single PCs. With wireless, at least mac filtering and 128 WEP.While they follow the advice, "Paranoid" always comes into the discussion. As the problem becomes more well known they recognize how important "connection security" really is though.With that, I applaud your advocacy. Say it early, say it often, say it loud!Good Luck and Thanks !yellowpikeThanks, Yellowpike-Well, I am very security conscious and whenever I set up my first WiFi network, I will naturally be very cautious to try to get all the settings secure from the outset. Let them call us paranoid. So few understand what sitting ducks they are on their poorly- secured networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 9, 2004 Author Share Posted January 9, 2004 I've tried video over power lines and power line networking and the results were disappointing. Granted I haven't tried these products recently, but why bother with the alternatives already available?My question is what is the reality of long distance broadband networking over noisy-by-design unshielded wires?Hi, Freddy-If I understand your question correctly, BPL broadband comms would be fairly 'transparent' to the user. In other words, you really could not tell, for the most part, whether your broadband connection was being supplied by cable, DSL, satellite or BPL- at least not on the surface, superficially. I hear satellite, for example, has annoying 'latency' problems, making it a poor choice for big time gamers on the internet.I can tell you that I have read recently that the current crop of PLC (power line communications) broadband designs are better than some which were tried a few years back. They still do have problems, however, and one of them is that you have to really crank up the power level coming out of a PLC modem to get the better data rates and transmission distances. BTW I understand the technique is intended mainly to get customers connected up for 'last mile' broadband access. Somewhere out on the power lines, your BPL signal would get digitally converted and crammed down an optical fiber for its remaining trip across the internet. Other than that, BPL would use the internet the same way, namely that what you send and receive makes its way to 'backbone' server farms and then on about the internet network over optical fiber just like any other mode of broadband. Even dialup users eventually have their signals runnning in optical fiber by the time they get into the backbone. They just suffer from a bottleneck in their 'last mile' link to the telco. Dialup lines are of course very slow with a data rate limit of only ~53K if you are lucky. I usually only get 28.8K myself.Here's the rub- BPL is the only form of broadband that creates HF radio signals of such strength that they can totally destroy radio communications near them. Fiber would be totally non- radiating, cable is only slightly radiating, but way up at frequencies that would not cause as many problems, and DSL the same- although it does use some RF energy, the balanced phone lines it travels on are largely non-radiating. DSL would be the worst of the original bunch, having some potential for limited interference, but BPL is in a class all by itself. It intentionally introduces RF energy into highly unbalanced conductors ( power lines). This is a classical situation where you have in effect a small radio transmitter (the modem) feeding into an antenna system (power lines). A single installation can mess up a neighborhood for blocks. Millions of them scattered about the country guarantees interference to HF radio comms virtually everywhere. This is very bad news for radio communicators, and we are waging a last ditch attempt to educate the public and get through to the FCC and our congressmen before it is too late. BPL is bad news for us, and may well disappoint those who try it for their broadband connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackR Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 For technological reason i.e. Huge Spikes and Noise that is needed to be filtered and compensated for, BPL will end up in Geographical locations that nothing else what so ever is possible.Otherwise it is a dead “Duckâ€, no significant chance that it will be widespread for decent cost.However it is probably going to end up at the Futuristic Home as a low band Network to control the Fridge, Microwave, Washing Machine etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonegiant Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 This isn't specifically on topic, but...How do both receiving ends (consumer's modem and the other end's modem) differentiate data from noise? With all that unshielded cabling running all over the country, there's bound to be lots of noise there. Heck, when I was in the US Navy electronics tech school, we saw just how 'dirty' the outlet power sine wave is. Looked like a cross between a saw-tooth wave and a square wave. Do they just modulate the power incoming? And if so, are the installed step-down transformers able to handle the higher frequency? Anyways, it seems to me that equipment would be required to be installed at each step-down transformer to determine what is noise and what is data. IMHO, that sounds terribly expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 I think you are SOL on this issue CM. There are numerous vendors offering this technology now as you can find form this Google search: http://www.google.com/search?q=ethernet%20...ver%20powerlineThe commercial people are betting their companies on being able to make this technology work, so I doubt it is going to go away. Besides, it seems to make sense since as we know, there are already plugs (outlets) in every room of every house.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackR Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Quote: since as we know, there are already plugs (outlets) in every room of every house.... Yeah there is Water faucets in every kitchen and bathroom, and the Bottled Water industry is thriving.BTW. Some communities came with an Interesting Idea. Fiber Optic through the sewer system.So Microwave on a Regional base. Fibers optic for community distribution and Copper (Tel.) or Fiber optic at the home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 I think you are SOL on this issue CM. There are numerous vendors offering this technology now as you can find form this Google search: http://www.google.com/search?q=ethernet%20...ver%20powerlineThe commercial people are betting their companies on being able to make this technology work, so I doubt it is going to go away. Besides, it seems to make sense since as we know, there are already plugs (outlets) in every room of every house....I think these are different than what ClutterMagnet is referring to. There is powerline hardware for use within the home to use in place of running cable which is what I believe your search pulled up. But there is also a movement for power companies to provide ISP services to their customers similar to what cable tv companies and telephone companies are doing and this is what ClutterMagnet is referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 I think you are SOL on this issue CM. There are numerous vendors offering this technology now as you can find form this Google search: http://www.google.com/search?q=ethernet%20...ver%20powerlineThe commercial people are betting their companies on being able to make this technology work, so I doubt it is going to go away. Besides, it seems to make sense since as we know, there are already plugs (outlets) in every room of every house....I think these are different than what ClutterMagnet is referring to. There is powerline hardware for use within the home to use in place of running cable which is what I believe your search pulled up. But there is also a movement for power companies to provide ISP services to their customers similar to what cable tv companies and telephone companies are doing and this is what ClutterMagnet is referring to. It's the same thing, just a matter of degree... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 This isn't specifically on topic, but...How do both receiving ends (consumer's modem and the other end's modem) differentiate data from noise? With all that unshielded cabling running all over the country, there's bound to be lots of noise there.Well, correct me on this if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, BPL is intended to be a 'last mile' service mainly. What this means to me is that your broadband comms would get converted and crammed into optical fiber somewhere in or near your neighborhood. You would not be riding the power lines for very far at all. I suspect that would be very impractical. Almost the entire round trip would be by optical cables. They seem to envision longer BPL runs in the rural areas, with repeaters every so often along the lines to keep the signals clean and above the noise level. But in settled areas, JackR may be right- BPL may just have too much competition to really eat much of cables' and DSL's lunches. And it will open to a pretty hostile reception, if I am guessing right- that is unless FCC and the congress make some major changes in the laws at the expense of HF radio communicators. As it stands now, if a local radio amateur experiences interference to his radio comms, he can have FCC get involved and the owner or lessor of a BPL modem would have to make technical adjustments sufficient to mitigate the interference (this would have the effect of severely cutting into his available data rate or shutting him down outright). Turnabout is fair play- this is precisely the same situation that ham operators have operated under for many years. Very few of them ever run a shoddy operation, but if the ham's interference with a neighbor's consumer electronics device is due to technical faults with his station setup, the ham is expected to make it right, and pronto! BTW the vast majority of such complaints prove to be due to shoddily- designed consumer devices, with the ham getting a clean bill of health on his transmissions. Then the poor consumer is stuck with trying to get the problem mitigated by the manufacturer. Such would probably be the case with BPL modems- they would suffer severe interference from nearby radio transmitters properly operating (not at fault), in which case the manufacturer of the modem would be liable. It would certainly be a mess, with broadband BPL users and local radio ops being mutually made miserable by the clash between these two incompatible systems. But in both cases, the modem owner would be stuck- if he either suffers interference from a properly operated transmitter nearby, or if he causes harmful interference to a nearby licensed radio facility. What a mess. In practice, it might often become a litigious situation, testing who has purchased the better lawyer. One thing is for certain- BPL is an entirely new animal. It should not be confused with the popular X-10 and similar 'carrier current' systems that have been used in homes for remote control apps for a couple of decades now. It is true that various items already in the home can be noisy at radio frequencies, including light dimmers, but to compare these older tech systems to the horrendous interference potential of BPL to the HF radio spectrum is not a correct inference. Remember, the BSR X-10 system runs only occasionally, while giving brief commands to remote devices, whereas BPL would be always on, with the severity of the din it creates proportional to how many users are pumping out how much bandwidth. This would vary somewhere between horrible and way beyond horrible.Also, and this is the most important point, the flea-powered X-10 systems do not bypass power transformers. BPL does do that intentionally, by the use of an added coupling device to bridge across the transformer outside your home. It gets conducted along thousands of feet of power line, and unfortunately, since we can't repeal the laws of physics for BPL, some of this higher powered radio signal also gets radiated. Big difference! Such systems are called 'unintentional radiators', but all those guys developing BPL know fully well that it radiates! Their spokesmen lie shamelessly about that, however. The only thing that will probably get determined in this debate is how much of this crap they will allow to be radiated. The US will probably not be as wise as some other countries which have banned this ill- conceived technology. This is already an 'allowed' technology in the US, though it should not be, as it crosses a line in a very big way. The law did not anticipate anything as nasty as this particular system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackR Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 BTW.Research done by Educational Psychologist (about 20 years ago). Showed that in neighborhoods that reside under High Voltage Power Lines the percentage of Kids with Learning Disabilities is significantly higher than the average across the US.And that was 20 years ago when the general envioroment was much less loaded with RF.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 11, 2004 Author Share Posted January 11, 2004 BTW.Research done by Educational Psychologist (about 20 years ago). Showed that in neighborhoods that reside under High Voltage Power Lines the percentage of Kids with Learning Disabilities is significantly higher than the average across the US.And that was 20 years ago when the general envioroment was much less loaded with RF..I think I will resist jumping in on that quite separate debate, other than to comment that I, personally, would not want to live in the shadow of high tension cross- country lines (100KV and up) for basically 'superstitious' reasons. I have no fear of the medium HV line coming through my neighborhood, however (around 13KV). The problem with the science regarding supposed harm to humans from proximity to high tension power lines is that both sides of the issue have been able to muster panels of experts willing to strongly argue their position, based on their own interpretation of available data. This is one of these gray areas where direct medical/ scientific research would be highly unethical, and so it does not take place. All you can do is look at data on clusters of illness such as cancers, to see if you can find any correlation between disease incidence and proximity to the lines.One other thing to keep in mind is that the main concern about high tension lines is the very intense 60Hz magnetic field near them. It would unfortunately be a feeble argument to assert that the relatively low power level of RF from BPL would pose a direct hazard. Indeed, there is likely no hazard at all to humans from that RF. The hazard, a very real one, is to HF communications receivers in the vicinity of a BPL system, which would essentially be jammed to the point of uselessness. And that is a virtual guarantee. It does not take all that many "microvolts per meter" of RF field strength to constitute a 'strong' signal in a receiver. In other words, these are relatively weak RF fields that will totally wipe out nearby radio comms.In any case, as an amateur radio operator, my preliminary site survey would always include a check on the location and distance of HV lines, as they, too, can be 'unintentional radiators' that make a lot of 'impulse' type noise as tiny conductive paths to ground develop and a physically degrading line begins to fire up little 'spark transmitters' from high voltage breakdown. This can be another broadband source of RFI (radio frequency interference) which varies greatly from one jurisdiction to another. It so happens that our own local power company is excellent and a very good citizen. They respond quickly and positively to any RFI complaints and have crews out in usually record time to make any needed repairs. They have their own full- time RFI investigator on staff, who has been a valuable resource to the local ham community. He eventually became a radio amateur himself. Other areas are not quite as good, however. Some hams only get action, despite months of pleading with the power company, when they finally contact FCC or the ARRL (national ham organization). Hams still get a positive reception at FCC over such matters, as there are often a few hams on staff at levels below that of commissioner, and the FCC has been seen as fair and friendly to ham interests over the years. FCC will intervene on behalf of a radio amateur when necessary and remind power companies of their obligation to prevent and remediate power line- caused RFI. This usually gets some action.Again I must point out that BPL is unique in that it would be 'always on' once it has been installed, whereas power line- generated RFI develops slowly over time, is intermittant in nature, and is easy to remediate. It would also trash a much wider swath of the radio spectrum than power line RFI. Power lines and HF radio communications are not inherently incompatible. They have coexisted in relative peace from the very beginning. BPL is an entirely different matter, as it would turn local power lines into antennas in a distributed radio jamming system. BPL and radio comms are totally incompatible. One of the fears in the radio community is that, given many power companies' complete disregard for the FCC rules against RFI and their proven track record of stonewalling and refusing to be responsible corporate citizens, what are the prospects that they will act responsibly in the face of what promises to be very frequent and widespread complaints from radio communicators over BPL? That is a rhetorical question. What they will do, and indeed are already trying to do, is to prevail with FCC and ultimately congress, and get the rules against harmful interference neutered. That is where the battle is today. The FCC has been so over- the- top positive in its support of industry positions (pro- business per today's national politics) that it has begun to forget its mandate to provide good stewardship of the airwaves in the interests of all users. The radio community continues to protest and to pray that they will reconsider before radio communications are permanently destroyed by this bad neighbor, ill- considered broadband technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 BTW.Research done by Educational Psychologist (about 20 years ago). Showed that in neighborhoods that reside under High Voltage Power Lines the percentage of Kids with Learning Disabilities is significantly higher than the average across the US.And that was 20 years ago when the general envioroment was much less loaded with RF..I think I will resist jumping in on that quite separate debate, other than to comment that I, personally, would not want to live in the shadow of high tension cross- country lines (100KV and up) for basically 'superstitious' reasons. I have no fear of the medium HV line coming through my neighborhood, however (around 13KV). The problem with the science regarding supposed harm to humans from proximity to high tension power lines is that both sides of the issue have been able to muster panels of experts willing to strongly argue their position, based on their own interpretation of available data. This is one of these gray areas where direct medical/ scientific research would be highly unethical, and so it does not take place. All you can do is look at data on clusters of illness such as cancers, to see if you can find any correlation between disease incidence and proximity to the lines.One other thing to keep in mind is that the main concern about high tension lines is the very intense 60Hz magnetic field near them. It would unfortunately be a feeble argument to assert that the relatively low power level of RF from BPL would pose a direct hazard. Indeed, there is likely no hazard at all to humans from that RF. The hazard, a very real one, is to HF communications receivers in the vicinity of a BPL system, which would essentially be jammed to the point of uselessness. And that is a virtual guarantee. It does not take all that many "microvolts per meter" of RF field strength to constitute a 'strong' signal in a receiver. In other words, these are relatively weak RF fields that will totally wipe out nearby radio comms. Sometimes you don't have a choice. In my local area, the power company is intent on running a 230KV line down a main street underground. Despite months of hue and cry from residents and politicians and also despite an apparent alternative, the power company is ignoring the wishes of the neighborhood and is intent on continuing with their plan.A story here:http://www.sanbrunobart.com/Community/News.../031127-1.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zox Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 That is a shame.Like HAM operators didn't have enough trouble already so far, like 7 Mhz band where in certain regions mostly have been "given" to broadcasting companies and HAM's have been left one third of original band.It is not first nor last time they are "taking" away from HAM's.In my opinion Amateur Radio Operators are just beta testers for FCC and governement.From the video I saw, that is horrible interference and it was the highest onthe nevertheless, "the best" band 14Mhz.They should be made to listen to HAM contest to realize how many people are actually using these frequencies.Yes HAM's are very useful and irreplaceble for disasters, catastrophies, wars, etc...I've been personally involved in many such "occasions" as a HAM where you give yourself to help some uknown people that will probably never even know that you are helping them or will never be able to thank you.The most I ever got for my involvment was a lot of thank you's and occasionally food provided from an organizer.But important thing is the feeling that you have that you helped not one person but a lot of people.I am not HAM operator due to circumstances for 5 years now but I was active for 12 years before, and I am outraged at BPL.Thanks ClutterMagnet for bringing it to my/our attention.I was completly not aware of such harmful interference by BPL, and was actually hoping to see how that will work, thinking of competiion with cable and DSL.Now I see I was blind.Yes people should hear the message as it is very disturbing.Thanks again Clutter, I'll make sure everyone I know is aware of consequences of BPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted January 12, 2004 Author Share Posted January 12, 2004 Thanks very much for your positive comments, zox. I hope you will consider rejoining the amateur radio ranks at some point. Many hams move into new neighborhoods with restrictive covenants that forbid any outside antennas. Some of them lose interest and get out of the hobby as a result. But we keep getting new blood, too, and exciting things are happening with new digital modes that put some new challenges into an old and distinguished hobby. When you crosslink that expertise with computer skills, it really opens up new horizons and enables you to enjoy both activities far more than you might have if you only did one of them. A lot of hams have a big presence on the internet and are using it to do some really interesting and worthwhile things. But one of their primary activities still is using the HF radio bands to communicate via ionospheric propagation ('skip') with other hams worldwide. Taking away HF might not totally kill off ham radio, but it certainly would severely cripple it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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