Grasshopper Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 How's about an admistrator making a separate forum (either completely separate or even as a subsection of The Water Cooler) for Political discussions.Politics seems to pervade every forum that I visit (and probably every other forum created) and one of the best ways I've seen to deal with the potential problems inherent in political discussions is to separate it and closely moderate it (which I know already takes place on SFNLF). One reason I believe doing this will benefit is that new visitors will stay longer if they see that potential flame wars (and political discussions are most prone to those) are kept in a separate area. And if strong warning language is used and also close supervision of the content was employed, then I think that this forum would be even better.Thanks for your time,tbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicDragon Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I think a sub-forum in the water cooler might be more appropriate than it's own forum.I think that strong language is against policy to begin with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeTee Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I was thinking the same thing. Tbird, you just beat me too it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 3, 2003 Author Share Posted December 3, 2003 I think a subforum in the Cooler would be OK.I know that the mods and the admins do a great job here. It's a tighter ship than all the other forums I frequent.But, ya know, sometimes you just wanna ignore the political dissussions altogether. They just leave a bad taste in your mouth. And sometimes you want to pipe in with your opinion.I think the best way is to separate it.tbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I'd have to agree-No need for a specifically 'political' forum area, as people are naturally political animals. I figure that if there were absolutely complete unanimity, with never a disagreement, then something is wrong. Although the Water Cooler tends to get political in certain threads, I have also seen politics erupt in several other rooms in this Forum. Seems to me that things are running reasonably smooth, due mainly to good moderators. The Water Cooler is a good place to launch ideas that are 'political', and that's pretty much what might be expected. I can well understand anyone's desire to minimize heated discussions. Yes, they might be a big turnoff to newcomers or lurkers.If someone were to start a new thread in the Water Cooler of a distinctly political nature, maybe one that has the words "politics" of "political" in the title, maybe folks would like it as well as the "Bad Advice" thread, now up to some 45 pages in only a few months. Get popular enough with such a thread, and I bet any of the moderators would be willing to impart 'stickiness' to the thread if asked to, putting it automatically always at the top of the listings for that room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 This is the use of the word IRAQ in this forum. While most hits are already in the Water Cooler forum they aren't all here nor does it take into account the ones that started elsewhere and were moved here. I believe none of the threads have a topic subject indicating they are political.IRAQ was an easy non-technical target to search for but I'm sure there are others. the "Bad Advice" thread, now up to some 45 pages in only a few months.Which consists of approx 40 contributers, 15 of which account for 40+ of the pages. That's 15 out of 2000 members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfProRM Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 That's 15 out of 2000 members.All I want to add is that over half of our 2000 members have never posted a message on the board Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greengeek Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 I'm considering leaving another forum because politics and religion are beginning to take over an otherwise good tech forum. Checking posts since my last visit comes up with more political topics than technical ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 All I want to add is that over half of our 2000 member have never posted a message on the boardOk, let me rephrase that then. That's 15 out of only 1000 active members. Another 1000 don't post anything anywhere.There, that more accurate for ya? Too bad the forum doesn't provide statistics. They could be very informative. Avg number of member visits per day per month. Avg number of unique member visits per day per month. Avg number of non-member visits per day per month. Avg member forum age. Avg member last post date.Other stats of interest would be number of questions posted and number of questions answered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 4, 2003 Author Share Posted December 4, 2003 I have also seen politics erupt in several other rooms in this Forum.Yeah that's true. I suppose there are three answers to that:--Leave it where it is--Move the thread completely (prolly not the smartest thing)--Tell the "interested parties" in the newly morphed political discussion to take it to the PD forum (I have seen this done on a few occasions with some of the larger threads) with a new thread.Oh well. I don't want to make a big stink out of this. I'd prolly know which thread will be heatedly discussed and stay away from them anyway. Just a thought to maybe make the forums a little cleaner. Like I said, another forum that I frequent has a dedicated political forum and since it's creation, I've enjoyed the cleanliness so much more. And I can go and read the political stuff any time I want.Some of us truly don't care about higher order politics and it could drive some members away, like greengeek said.tbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_P Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I support your suggestion tbird. I don't think option one is the correct one. I see nothing wrong with option two and three being combined into one and making PD a separate forum. While it could be a part of the Water Cooler forum sub-forums aren't as obvious or as convenient to get to as main ones. Also the tangent discussions should be moved quicker than currently the case.imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeber Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Arena2045 (admin) and all the moderators have discussed this concept, and for several reasons we all feel this is something that isn't appropriate for SFNL forums.1. We already get the occasional complaint of over-moderation. A political forum would require almost constant supervision and frequent edits and deletions. This would only lead to resentment and more complaints, though in this case they'd probably be justified.2. As Greengeek alluded to, there is another forum that many of us also visit, and of late the "Water Cooler"-type forum there has been getting a lot of political/religious postings. Since it wasn't a direct violation of the rules, we allowed them to exist. Things have now gotten to the point that every time I log in, there is at least one PM awaiting me complaining about the intolerance and near-flaming going on in them. They have become offensive to many of the members, and allowing them to continue is being reconsidered. 3. As has been mentioned, in context and when appropriate, political discussions have already been posted. If anyone feels the need to post a purely political comment, there are forums and BBS dedicated to that subject. There's a forum I visit to exchange thoughts on religion and philosophy, I don't do it here.4. From what I've seen elsewhere, most political posts are not fair and polite exchanges based on a respect for the other poster's opinions. What they do manage to do is polarize the members, destroying the sense of community we've tried so hard to establish. 5. As with religion, most of you already have decided on your political opinions. Political postings turn into rants, as if trying to convert the other members. That doesn't happen...instead, the thread becomes a battleground of opposite opinions with no hope of resolution.6. Many members are here for tech help and maybe a little entertainment. They no doubt lurk for a day or two to see what sort of place this is. Any part of the forum that appears threatening or hostile may drive them off before they see all the other great forums.To sum up...the possibility of abuse and the threat to the community make it a suggestion we are declining to act upon. Politics, religion and sexual discussions are not appropriate for SFNL forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfProRM Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 To add one thing to what Jeber said: This is first and foremost a computer help forum. We're very lucky to have developed into such a wonderful, diverse community that we are, and nobody wants to hinder it, but a political forum doesn't increase the accessibility as a computer help forum. Definitely a good proposal though... we're always happy to get suggestions as to how we can improve this place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeTee Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Thanks Jeber (and Ryan) for posting that so clearly. I now see that it wouldn't be a good idea to open up a place for political "discussions". You convinced me!! with 4. From what I've seen elsewhere, most political posts are not fair and polite exchanges based on a respect for the other poster's opinions. What they do manage to do is polarize the members, destroying the sense of community we've tried so hard to establish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Thanks Jeber and Ryan for so eloquently putting our thoughts and concerns as moderators and admins into words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicDragon Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Thank you Jeber (and everyone else). After reading this thread, i feel like that is a good decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scot Posted December 8, 2003 Share Posted December 8, 2003 As GolfProRM said, we are always really encouraged by suggestions like this one. It's good to have ideas and to talk about them, consider them. In this case, I also feel that we have made the right decision about the best course for Scot's Newsletter Forums. We're going to stay true to our focus, which as several people said is about exploring computers, operating systems, broadband, solving problems, new technologies, and so forth. We can stretch that focus in to an extent, but religion and politics aren't just a stretch, they're on the other side of the world. The only time those topics should probably come up here is when (or if) they have some direct connection to computers and technology. That occasionally happens with politics. I can't remember it happening with religion.It can be fun to argue, I know. But what's even more rewarding is to learn, get help, give help, teach, and just plain get answers about technology. That's the point of this place.We have considered doing a Computer News & Issues forum that would focus on the current events of computing. I think a number of us are still interested in working up that forum. And we expect that forum to need more tending than some others.-- Scot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Arrrgggg...... politics, the main course of heated debates, between intellectual individuals who for some unknown reason have taken leave of common sense and have been beamed up by the "borg" into an as of yet undiscovered ... alien mother ship from an as of yet undiscovered galaxy ....tada Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicDragon Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 politics, the main course of heated debates, between intellectual individuals who for some unknown reason have taken leave of common sense and have been beamed up by the "borg" into an as of yet undiscovered ... alien mother ship from an as of yet undiscovered galaxy ....That explains the large silver disk i saw hovering over the White House! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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