ibe98765 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 This is only a issue for folks who want to do bad things. Why would anyone else be concerned with this issue of privacy?PLEASE take the time to read the thread. Enough examples have been provided to show the "possible" exposures that someone using MS Office products face. If none of these affect or concern you, then that's OK. Thanks for sharing your personal viewpoint.BTW: have you thought about applying for a job with the Homeland Security Agency? I'm sure they would love to have someone like yourself looking for all those "bad people"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Let's see here... I create and send a Word doc and anyone can dig deep and figure out it was me who sent it. Wow! What a revelation... seems to me the issue here is this may be a problem if I wish to say or imply something in writing I might later regret.This is only a issue for folks who want to do bad things. Why would anyone else be concerned with this issue of privacy?What an astonishingly callous attitude! Privacy is an essential component contributing to human dignity, and ultimately freedom itself. Deny it and you degrade an entire society. Because it is such a basic concept, adequately recognized in law and the US Constitution, it is astonishing how often we see it denigrated and badmouthed lately. It is sad to see how many otherwise intelligent human beings have an astonishing lack of appreciation and understanding about the basic underpinnings of our once great, now degrading society. Much that has been good and even unique about America is now slowly dying as its citizens fail to defend what is right. As I see it, your argument here is nothing less than an attack on our republic, however indirect or subtle. It undermines the freedom and dignity for others, and therefore cannot go unanswered. Not everyone can be quite so perfect as you would have them be. I'm sure you have a few things yourself that you would prefer not to see the light of day. What- we're now going to criminalize being human? You would probably be one of the first few unfortunates swept up in massive raids that ended up putting 99+ percent of humanity behind bars for harboring impure or bicameral thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 why is it everytime something gets mentioned regarding history tracking or privacy concerns or user tracking, someone always has to run his mouth about if you have nothing to hide, then you're safe, and if you are doing illegal stuff, like "plagaraising" for example, you DESERVE whatever happens? what kind of sick big brother mentality is that??its the SAME RECYCLED ARGUEMENTS that people use to justify street cameras, drug testing before getting hired, phone tapping, email tapping, and other serious invasion of privacy rights. it seems to be a lot more common in the Land of the Free, aka USA. news flash! just because you are concerned about your privacy does NOT make you a criminal. this wide-scale assault on our right to privacy, from IP address sub-poenas from RIAA to MS storing personal info in .DOC files to Product Activation and other forms of FORCED registration to personal info being traded and sold to various 3rd parties, this all has to be stopped. using the arguement "if you are worried about it, you are probably guilty" is pure BULL and will only lead humanity to have chip implants to track their movements, because after all, if they are good citizens, they wont object.I for one want to THANK YOU for posting this information, and it gives me that final push to ditch MS Orifice solutions as my choice of document storage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 why is it everytime something gets mentioned regarding history tracking or privacy concerns or user tracking, someone always has to run his mouth about if you have nothing to hide, then you're safe, and if you are doing illegal stuff, like "plagaraising" for example, you DESERVE whatever happens? what kind of sick big brother mentality is that??its the SAME RECYCLED ARGUEMENTS that people use to justify street cameras, drug testing before getting hired, phone tapping, email tapping, and other serious invasion of privacy rights. it seems to be a lot more common in the Land of the Free, aka USA. news flash! just because you are concerned about your privacy does NOT make you a criminal. this wide-scale assault on our right to privacy, from IP address sub-poenas from RIAA to MS storing personal info in .DOC files to Product Activation and other forms of FORCED registration to personal info being traded and sold to various 3rd parties, this all has to be stopped. using the arguement "if you are worried about it, you are probably guilty" is pure BULL and will only lead humanity to have chip implants to track their movements, because after all, if they are good citizens, they wont object.I for one want to THANK YOU for posting this information, and it gives me that final push to ditch MS Orifice solutions as my choice of document storage.Right on, Prelude! Freedom rocks! Find out who still supports it, and support them- to the hilt! Ditch Office? Maybe a good idea. Privacy intrusions by its author are becoming legendary in their ever-growing proportions. Sometimes trust issues are a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucekrymow Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 What- we're now going to criminalize being human? You would probably be one of the first few unfortunates swept up in massive raids that ended up putting 99+ percent of humanity behind bars for harboring impure or bicameral thoughts! Amen to that I Want Out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden11 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 <<What an astonishingly callous attitude! Privacy is an essential component contributing to human dignity, and ultimately freedom itself.>>What do you know of freedom?Just my opinion and the last time I checked having an opinion was still allowed in this country. Who are you to judge my motives behind my opinion? You have the blanks to tell me I know nothing of freedom?<<As I see it, your argument here is nothing less than an attack on our republic, however indirect or subtle. It undermines the freedom and dignity for others, and therefore cannot go unanswered.>>I'm not clear where your patirotism comes from but for me it was inlisting and serving 2 tours in Nam... I barely got out alive. My brother was not so lucky.I live in a house that has been in my families name since 1905 which is across the street from a Federal Housing Project built in the 60's. I look at drug dealers every day plying their trade. Local cops have their hands tied due to lack of funds to put more of them (cops) on the streets. I report what I see whenever I see it. I know LTs by name and am assured they are working very hard on the problem... yet every day I see the dealers... it is a big game between them and the cops...In my city, smart drivers do not go when the light turns green because they know that some fool is going to be driving through the intersection with total disregard for traffic laws. So YES, I'm in favor of cameras at intersections snaping license plates of offenders... They will not stop fools driving wrecklessly but at least the city can send a thank you note along with the ticket.It has been my experience that those crying the loudest usually have the most to hide when it comes to privacy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 <<What an astonishingly callous attitude! Privacy is an essential component contributing to human dignity, and ultimately freedom itself.>>What do you know of freedom?Just my opinion and the last time I checked having an opinion was still allowed in this country. Who are you to judge my motives behind my opinion? You have the blanks to tell me I know nothing of freedom?Marsden,The person you quoted was saying that privacy is an important part of human dignity, and therefore a part of freedom. They were NOT telling you that you know nothing about freedom, and attacking a person's opinon because they judged YOUR opinion is rather ironic, isn't it? I live in a house that has been in my families name since 1905 which is across the street from a Federal Housing Project built in the 60's. I look at drug dealers every day plying their trade. Local cops have their hands tied due to lack of funds to put more of them (cops) on the streets. I report what I see whenever I see it. I know LTs by name and am assured they are working very hard on the problem... yet every day I see the dealers... it is a big game between them and the cops...i'm sorry, i dont follow. how does this relate to discussion of freedom and privacy rights?It has been my experience that those crying the loudest usually have the most to hide when it comes to privacy...i respectfully disagree. just because i refuse to register software, or refuse to give Best Buy my postal code when i make a purchase, or do not want MS Word to keep history of all changes does NOT mean i'm hiding something. I simply want to be free of telemarketers, spam, Identity thieves, and other such sort that feed on my personal information. and I want the government and police to know as little about me as possible, not because i'm hiding something, but because my faith in a just and fair system of law and order has evaporated shortly after i became an adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden11 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I was only explaining my past and the conditions I live in. I see people breaking the law every day. Why should I pay taxes for almost zero support from local cops? I don't care if folks want to sell drugs. That is their choice... I just don't like it in front of my house! So I do all I can to help them (cops) do their job.I don't live in some quite pristene neighborhood out in the burbs... I live in the trenches... If I packed up and left... they would win. I'm sick and tired of folks crying about privacy issues... the moment you are born... your info is bought and sold. Got a bank account? Carry a credit card? They own your info... It is how the system works. Don't like it? Find another country and move.I play by the rules... I'm not perfect but on the other hand I have nothing to hide from Uncle Sugar. If the cops want to stop my truck for a sobrity check point... I'm all for it! Fantastic, get all the AHs who drink off the roads. If MS wants to stop casual program sharing via WPA... Fantastic, I'm all for it! I have 10 machines here at home and I have MS licenses for 20 machines!The RIAA wants to sue file swappers. Fantastic, I'm all for it! I tried Napster many years ago and found the selection to be lacking and the overall quality very poor. I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I believe file swaping of protected content is against the law of the land. I don't have any MP3s on any of my machines... I rip my CDs with WMP9. I purchased every one of the 600 plus CDs I own.But it really boils down to money... Everyone wants to save here and there. Students are poor and have no money... bla bla bla. It would cost more money to purchase another copy of Win2k AS Server. So I justify my loading it more than once because MS has more money than they know what to do with so it is no big deal... software should be free... music should be free and movies too...Unfortunately, EVERYTHING has a price but hardly anyone wants to pay what it costs. Why do you think eBay is so popular? The problem is we all have limited resources and our eyes are bigger than our pocket books and plastic only streches so far... I want it all... I want it now... It's my right!Fine... pony up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I don't live in some quite pristene neighborhood out in the burbs... I live in the trenches... If I packed up and left... they would win.having grown up in so-called 'pristene neighborhoods' in the burbs, i can assure you the statement above is a touch fictitious. when pretty much 50% of kids in my area were into weed, and at least 25% into ecstasy, speed, coke, and shrooms, not to mention GHB, Ketamine, or whatever is the new flavor of the month, blaming inner-city 'trenches' as the source of drug problems is a bit near-sighted. i think there is a mass-movement to clamp down on inner-city drugs like crack and heroin, while all the teens of white-collar families are out clubbing away until 7am, and this is causing the huge disproportion of minorities in jail.I'm sick and tired of folks crying about privacy issues...and i'm sick and tired of privacy laws being eroded all because of september 11th. once again, just a simple case of difference of opinions. you got your opinions from your patriotism in 'NAM, and i got mine from growing up in a communist state and recently seeing the 'free' world quickly adopting many laws and tactics that were common under communism. (i.e. held without being charged, military tribunals, spying on communications, employing fear tactics to scare general population stiff, etc...)I believe file swaping of protected content is against the law of the land. I don't have any MP3s on any of my machines... I rip my CDs with WMP9. I purchased every one of the 600 plus CDs I own.laws of the land change and do not necessarily have to be followed, in a true free society. laws are created and modified as corporations and corporation-sponsored politicians see fit, usually with one primary goal: to keep control over its citizens. this is how they get their power. companies are already experimenting with human ID chips, for so-called good goals such as passport tracking and airport security. are you going to be first in line to get yours once its made into law? you brought up one good point: everyone is already tracked with debit cards, credit cards, etc... that is why i do most of my purchases with cash only. i'm doing my part to fight or at least slow down this corporate system. but already there is talk in the papers about how cash should be faded out, since only illegal transactions and drug deals are done with cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden11 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 <<laws of the land change and do not necessarily have to be followed, in a true free society. laws are created and modified as corporations and corporation-sponsored politicians see fit, usually with one primary goal: to keep control over its citizens.>>So in a truely free society if I want a bank loan I can just waltz in and rob it? With an ever increasing global enconomy which is run by corporations around the globe... where do you suggest we all run and hide? Perhaps Liberia... I don't think they track anything there...<<i think there is a mass-movement to clamp down on inner-city drugs like crack and heroin, while all the teens of white-collar families are out clubbing away until 7am, and this is causing the huge disproportion of minorities in jail.>>A crack down on drugs...? Right... And as city and state budgets bleed red ink how exactly are we going to pay for this crackdown?Funny when I observe the interaction of buyers to dealers... I see white kids buying from black dealers and I suppose that if most of the dealers are black... and they get busted, then it stands to reason that their numbers in jail are going to be higher. If kids in the burbs want to spend money on drugs and escape reality... so be it. If they die doing stupid things... so be it! That is their choice! Nobody forced them to find the dealers and make the purchases.<<are you going to be first in line to get yours once its made into law?>>It is the job of my government to protect and defend. Millions hate us because we have more than they do. We have freedoms they only dream about. If a chip makes this a safer country to live in, then YES, I'll be inline to get one. And when some fool bent on harming us here, gets caught because he does not have a chip... COOL! I 'm all for it...On my streets... you are a player or you are being played... Fair and fairness are not words in my vocabulary.If you don't like your country nor it's laws... then fine... find a country with no laws and you will do well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I see white kids buying from black dealers and I suppose that if most of the dealers are black...do white kids go to urban centres to buy crack/heroin? probably. do white kids go to urban centres to buy weed, xtc, shrooms, coke? nope. keep dreamin' your 'suburbs are heaven' dream. every weed, xtc, shroom, coke dealer i ever met was upper-class white or asian guy who lives in a $400,000 home in suburbia and drives a lexus. welcome to the real world, not one portrayed in the movies.If a chip makes this a safer country to live in, then YES, I'll be inline to get one.thanks. that answered 99.5% of my questions.If you don't like your country nor it's laws... then fine... find a country with no laws and you will do well.this is the THIRD time you mentioned something along the line of "if you dont like this country, get out". just so you know, i AM in another country. one where our laws, though not perfect, still try to respect my privacy. but i do have a lot of friends in the US of A and I do visit there once a while and i see so many people 'scared' and edgy and paranoid people, quite similar to what was portrayed in "Bowling for Columbine". theres 2 ways you can live your life; assume that people are evil and mean you harm and you have to watch out for number 1, or assume everyone is good inside unless they prove you wrong otherwise. try the second way; it makes life a lot more enjoyable to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zox Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Interesting discussion but a bit pointless in my humble opinion.I've been part of such discussions numerous times and it is rarely that anyone changes their mind.Usually ends up in bashing and swearing etc.. :)However just one thing to add regarding this quote And as city and state budgets bleed red ink how exactly are we going to pay for this crackdown?It is related to the city I live at least, Ottawa Canada.Big fat a$$ politicians are the ones pushing those budgets to red due to their 1000 dollars lunches and luxury trips.Do you know how they fight here against it?Instead of giving them blank checks, they gave them VISA cards with unlimited spending so it is "easier" to track expensis.These are the people who waste tax collected money for their own purposes and drives taxes even higher.Nobody can convince me in oposite since I know how much freakin tax I pay through my salary, through every purchase I make, through Property tax, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 Nobody can convince me in oposite since I know how much freakin tax I pay through my salary, through every purchase I make, through Property tax, etc...i hear ya, zox. i dont mind paying more taxes as long as it's used for the people's general good, such as health care for all, great highways, plentiful and cheap parks and cheap state-controlled utilities. this is how Canada ran a few decades back. now, our taxes are STILL going up, gas and hydro got de-regulated causing 300% increase in natural gas prices (from 10cents to 30 cents per unit) and hydro flew up so high that government put a 3 year emergency cap on the prices. and this is from a country with one of the most and biggest hydro dams (in Quebec), and a large supplier of natural gas. i read an article and reason our electricity went up is we sell over half to the States, and during high usage days, we end up buying our electricilty back from them at huge markup. great! good system! then i look at health care: every hospital millions in debt, emergency rooms have 8+ hours of waiting time, and one new family doctor opened up his doors in my city and he got over 15,000 applications (could only take a few hundred). and main cause of this? our doctors go to the states, because they make 3 times more money there. another thumbs up for a great system!and highways? the only real highways being built these days are electronic toll highways owned by a Spanish construction company!but what can we do? its Globalization that is the enemy, and its unstoppable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peachy Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I don't have any MP3s on any of my machines... I rip my CDs with WMP9. I purchased every one of the 600 plus CDs I own.Why? MP3s aren't illegal and people do swap WMP9 files (*cough, cough*) . I rip my CDs in Linux using the Ogg Vorbis codec and it sounds louder and crisper than either the Fraunhoefer MP3 codec or WMA codec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peachy Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 but what can we do? its Globalization that is the enemy, and its unstoppable.As long as there are anti-Globalisation protests around the world, the multi-national corporations will never win. There are always alternatives to corporate products in most markets and the trick is to support them as much as possible. My hope is that there are still enough people in the U.S.A. who remember tbat revolution is the crucible of their history and that only a social and political revolution will change the path of their history. If the Soviet Union and the Berlin Wall can be toppled without blood being shed then there's still hope for America... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden11 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 The Gods of the Copybook Headingsby Rudyard KiplingI PASS through my incarnations in every age and race,I make my proper prostrations to the Gods of the Market Place.Peering through reverent fingers I watch them flourish and fall,And the Gods of the Copybook Headings, I notice, outlast them all.We were living in trees when they met us. They showed us each in turnThat Water would certainly wet us, as Fire would certainly burn:But we found them lacking in Uplift, Vision and Breadth of Mind,So we left them to teach the Gorillas while we followed the March of Mankind.We moved as the Spirit listed. They never altered their pace,Being neither cloud nor wind-borne like the Gods of the Market Place,But they always caught up with our progress, and presently word would comeThat a tribe had been wiped off its icefield, or the lights had gone out in Rome.With the Hopes that our World is built on they were utterly out of touch,They denied that the Moon was Stilton; they denied she was even Dutch;They denied that Wishes were Horses; they denied that a Pig had Wings;So we worshipped the Gods of the Market Who promised these beautiful things.When the Cambrian measures were forming, They promised perpetual peace.They swore, if we gave them our weapons, that the wars of the tribes would cease.But when we disarmed They sold us and delivered us bound to our foe,And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "Stick to the Devil you know."On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."Then the Gods of the Market tumbled, and their smooth-tongued wizards withdrewAnd the hearts of the meanest were humbled and began to believe it was trueThat All is not Gold that Glitters, and Two and Two make FourAnd the Gods of the Copybook Headings limped up to explain it once more.As it will be in the future, it was at the birth of ManThere are only four things certain since Social Progress began.That the Dog returns to his Vomit and the Sow returns to her Mire,And the burnt Fool's bandaged finger goes wobbling back to the Fire;And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world beginsWhen all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will bum,The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 As long as there are anti-Globalisation protests around the world, the multi-national corporations will never win. There are always alternatives to corporate products in most markets and the trick is to support them as much as possible.very well put, peachy.choose Linux vs Micro$oftchoose clone PC vs Dellchoose Mom & Pop Shop vs Wallyworld.. er.. i mean, Walmart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Healan Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I'm sick and tired of folks crying about privacy issuesI'm sick and tired of apathetic people who say nothing when human and civil rights are removed "to make us all safer". We've survived just fine for 225 years with the rights we have now. There is no reason for them to be stripped away now because there are people who don't like us. If you are willing to exchange freedom for safety, that is your right. I am not willing, just as most other people are not willing. It is naive and dangerous to believe you make society safer by taking away the citizen's rights. The Soviet Empire had a NASTY organized crime problem in the 70's and 80's. Some of those groups were just as dangerous as the KGB.If you can make the boring old "I have nothing to hide" argument in a privacy debate, I guess there really is no point trying to explain why that is irrelevent. Most people have nothing to hide and they would still require a search warrant before allowing the police to search their home. If you would let them come into your home anytime they please with or without a warrant, then feel free to do so and feel free to believe you're helping fight terrorism somehow. I will remember that I have rights, and I will demand that they be respected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 mike,its no use. he admitted he'd be first in line to get chip implants so his government can track his every move.i gave up after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 about this privacy rights issue, i'm trying to find this editorial cartoon i saw on the net. it said it the best. it shows one scene, with cops arresting arabs, and it says "i didnt complain when they took my right to a fair trial because i wasnt a terrorist". then it showed police arresting protesters, and it said "i didnt complain when they took my right to free speech because i wasnt an activist". then it shows police arresting hunters, and it says "i didnt complain when they took my right to bear arms, because i'm not a criminal".the cartoon went on with more examples, and the last one shows police arresting the guy, and he says "when they came to take me away, i cried for help but there was no one left to help me"so wake up, people! governments should exist to SERVE the people, not to CONTROL them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted August 6, 2003 Share Posted August 6, 2003 I'm sick and tired of apathetic people who say nothing when human and civil rights are removed "to make us all safer". We've survived just fine for 225 years with the rights we have now. There is no reason for them to be stripped away now because there are people who don't like us. If you are willing to exchange freedom for safety, that is your right. I am not willing, just as most other people are not willing. It is naive and dangerous to believe you make society safer by taking away the citizen's rights. The Soviet Empire had a NASTY organized crime problem in the 70's and 80's. Some of those groups were just as dangerous as the KGB.If you can make the boring old "I have nothing to hide" argument in a privacy debate, I guess there really is no point trying to explain why that is irrelevent. Most people have nothing to hide and they would still require a search warrant before allowing the police to search their home. If you would let them come into your home anytime they please with or without a warrant, then feel free to do so and feel free to believe you're helping fight terrorism somehow. I will remember that I have rights, and I will demand that they be respected.Couldn't have said it better myself.It is the job of my government to protect and defend. Millions hate us because we have more than they do. We have freedoms they only dream about. If a chip makes this a safer country to live in, then YES, I'll be inline to get one. And when some fool bent on harming us here, gets caught because he does not have a chip... COOL! I 'm all for it...I think that it's not smart to put full blind, ignorant faith in our (US) government. I'm an American and proud of our heritage, but power and greed has corrupted 95+% of our government. It is a major factor in all decisions made at all levels. Not the American citizens, but the corporations and people in power who will fall if equality were actually put in to practice. Ever seen or read The Pelican Brief? As far as the Word document fiasco goes, I have 3 resumes. One for a pharmacist position, one for a networking/computer related position and then another for a teaching position, like at a votech that has classes for pharmacy technicians. I'm using all three right now. I don't, per se, have anything to hide on my computer (bank account #'s or anthing like that) but personal privacy guaranteed by the "pursuit of happiness" part of the "real" Law of the Land says that I can have 3 resumes (pursuing job happiness) without any potential job/company knowing that I am "playing the field" or trying to just be happy with the right job. Although our gov't is based on lofty ideals, only the "going thru the motions" is still there in today's gov't. Concern for the individual is found few and far between.1¢ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibe98765 Posted August 7, 2003 Author Share Posted August 7, 2003 Y'all might want to bounce around through the links at http://www.privacy.net/. Lots to discover about privacy, or your lack thereof... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted August 11, 2003 Share Posted August 11, 2003 but what can we do? its Globalization that is the enemy, and its unstoppable.As long as there are anti-Globalisation protests around the world, the multi-national corporations will never win. There are always alternatives to corporate products in most markets and the trick is to support them as much as possible. My hope is that there are still enough people in the U.S.A. who remember tbat revolution is the crucible of their history and that only a social and political revolution will change the path of their history. If the Soviet Union and the Berlin Wall can be toppled without blood being shed then there's still hope for America... This thread continued to careen wildly about the room, even after being dumped unceremoniously into the Water Cooler. Even underwater, it still took a while to start cooling down. Ah, well, at least everybody kept it clean and nobody got their posts pulled (that I know of).A lot of good things were said about freedom, dignity, and privacy. For me, this post by Peachy captures it best. Upbeat and positive, a welcome reminder from a friend to the north. Yes, there are some things worth fighting for. There may have been a flap over so many nations not jumping on the bandwagon and supporting the Iraq invasion, but _this_ American has never lost his fondness for Canadians nor forgotten the good friends and allies they have been to the US for so many years. Well, I lived up there for 3 years as a kid, and I'm still in some ways homesick for my (idealized) southern Ontario memories. I was quite stirred by that famous bit of prose penned by Canadian Gordon Sinclair in 1973 in praise of Americans. It was understandably quite popular in the US and widely recirculated in the mid-90's again as the internet and email really took off, though it is really a commentary about America going it alone, largely, in Viet Nam. (I will be happy to locate a link to a copy of his piece if anyone is interested)Viet Nam was my era, too, and I also had my butt on the line and could have been sent over there and got all shot up. I served for four years, but did not have to become cannon fodder, thankfully. My friends who served there are pained and conflicted over it many years later. It caused quite a lot of anguish and vets of that era were probably disrespected far more than in any other conflict in recent memory (even Korea). I see no reason to wear it as some sort of badge of courage. We did what we had to do. I'm grateful I survived it. I am as conflicted about it today as I was back then.I wouldn't dream of trying to convince others to change dearly-held opinions of a political/ philosophical/ religious nature (things related to science are another matter). Whatever those opinions are, they came by them honestly, just as I did mine. You just live it and the circumstances shape you. It is sad to see how many Americans just don't get it, however, and are all too willing to throw away the very freedoms others fought so hard for (say, in Viet Nam, for example), just because the world- and their government- is presently frightening them. While I consider it a bit of an aberration for someone who fought valiantly in support of our societies' ideals to offer to be the first to surrender their privacy (freedom), truly anything is possible in this big, wonderful, hodge podge of a country. Ain't it great? Paraphrasing Patrick Henry, let people say anything they want to say- I might not agree with them but I support their right to say it. But not "to the death", as Henry would have it. There are just a few too many people out there who are ready to casually barter away _my_ freedom, and I don't intend to take that lying down!One last thought for the group- the coming elections in the US are going to be vote-rigged with a vengeance, far beyond anything we have seen in the past. If you vote, and if you are required to use an electronic voting machine, know that your votes can be easily 'lost' or stolen. Ask your poll workers whether they can do a true manual recount if needed (correct answer: no!) What are you going to do about it? Do a web search on electronic voting and you will find that a most disturbing picture will begin to emerge. Bonus question: Which political party controls the electronic voting machines? If you happen to be a member of that party and support its policies, is this a good thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.