zox Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 What is XPde?It's a desktop environment(XPde) and a window manager(XPwm) for Linux. It tries to make easier for Windows XP users to use a Linux box. Nothing more, no clipboard compatibility between Gtk and Qt applications, no emulation of Windows applications, no unification on the widgets of X applications, just a desktop environment and a window manager. XPdeScreenshots - a must seeDownload Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havnblast Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 OMG that is unreal - almost evil thing to do to linux, but I can see where it would be good to get people to see that switching to linux isn't so awful different.I guess I feel that Linux should have it's own look and feel. It needs to be unique and not be a copycat of windows, it will prove it has it's standards that way.Thanks for posting the links - it was really something to see those screenshots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Hi Zox, For a moment I thought this was a joke . . . . . . but it's real . . . What a shocking pictures . . . . it spoiled my lunch and even worse: I will need a few days to recover from this . . in horizontal position . . with one girl massaging my neck, another one my lower back and a third one reading me the newspaper, sure the stories in there could not bring worse news than this. Hope you guys do realize, that as moderator I do have the power ( and the duty ) to ban this kind of obscene material . . . . :) Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quint Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Zox,I really don't know whether to laugh hysterically, or sob. This takes even Lycoris to the next level...but I don't know whether it is an advancement, or a degradation. Ah! methinks maybe this is actually "ridiculing" MS, in such a way, that the "Redmond Orangutan" will do likewise, and then the "Penguins Foot and Body" will storm through the door! I hope this is the plan, but it is quite a shock, to be sure...and my old brain is having trouble comprehending the logic of this. :blink:Kelly quote: I guess I feel that Linux should have it's own look and feel. It needs to be unique and not be a copycat of windows, it will prove it has it's standards that way.Agree whole-heartedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zox Posted August 2, 2003 Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 Well, you have to thank me Bruno, since because of my post you will have to spend couple of days in horizontal while couple of girls are massaging you and reading you newspapers, hmm, not bad huh :PAnyway, author claims that this is just to promote Kylix as development platform since he did it completly in Kylix.Also to begin with he tried to sell it to Lindows and Lycoris but after failure he llicensed it under GPL.I think it is good way of showing that looks can be deceiving, therefore what is under the hood counts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Well, you have to thank me Bruno, since because of my post you will have to spend couple of days in horizontal while couple of girls are massaging you and reading you newspapers, hmm, not bad huh Any idea what that costs Zox ? I'll be sending you the bill . . . also from my optician, my eyesight is blurred ! Just to check if this was serious, I visited their forum . . . . . still can't believe the posts there . . people are raving about it, they think it's the best thing since sliced bread . . . . I'm still pinching myself, thinking it only was a bad dream . . ( even XP users do anything to get rid of that Luna-tic look, skinning was never so popular as since XP was released ) . . . . now I ask you: what's next ? Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quint Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Bruno quote: . . . . now I ask you: what's next ?"C:/usr" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peachy Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Just to check if this was serious, I visited their forum . . . . . still can't believe the posts there . . people are raving about it, they think it's the best thing since sliced bread . . . .Did you know that Otto Frederick Rohwedder perfected the mechanical bread slicing machine 75 years ago this past week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonicDragon Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Did you know that Otto Frederick Rohwedder perfected the mechanical bread slicing machine 75 years ago this past week?Yummy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I going to get a lot of flak for saying this *stepping into my asbestos suit* but this isn't a bad thing. I not sure I like a clone of the Windows XP desktop or not but on the other hand one of the few GOOD things about XP is that it is a very polished interface. It is far from perfect but it does work very well. I really like to see an interface closer to that of Mac OS X. Many things about either the gnome or KDE desktops are just sloppy. The KDE control panel for example is very confusing and it is hard to customize it like you can a Windows desktop.I'm not sure about that registry screen shot I saw that is one element they DON'T need to copy.I'm going to try this out just for grins and let you guys know what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havnblast Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 I still say Linux needs to be linux in look and feel, and I am also glad to see most have the same feelings toward that. Someone should send Bill G. those screenshots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Just to check if this was serious, I visited their forum . . . . . still can't believe the posts there . . people are raving about it, they think it's the best thing since sliced bread . . . .Did you know that Otto Frederick Rohwedder perfected the mechanical bread slicing machine 75 years ago this past week? Peachy, Right, the inventor of "wonder bread" . . . . the wonderful start of the convenience food industry . . . . wonder if that really did any good to the eating habits of mankind . . . . Now would we be able to see an analogy here between "wonder bread" and "XP" ? Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 BrunoHere is another one to be shocked over. I was in a Barnes and Noble bookstore today. The only Linux magazine they had that I did not was a US published one. It was shrinkwrapped with a disk inside. I turned it over to look at the disk and it was an MS disk. I choked so badly I am afraid I almost threw the magazine back on the rack. I could not even look at it long enough to see which magazine it was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 JuliaHad enough shocks for one day . . . now they are shrinckwrapping slices of bread with Linux magazines ? :DB) Bruno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rons Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 nlinecomputersI look forward to your report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Had enough shocks for one day . . . now they are shrinckwrapping slices of bread with Linux magazines ? Everywhere you look you see an advertisement from Microsoft. You can not avoid it. If you look at any of the major Linux web sites, whether it be FreshMeat, NewsForge, or even the various Linux Magazines, you will see Microsoft advertisements! Some of the folks have indicated that yes they are aware of the irony of the ads placed on their sites, but do not want to turn away advertisers and enter a legal battle.It sure makes it obvious that Microsoft is running an aggressive campaign to try to capture, regain, or keep from losing market share. Why would a business that large, or with that much control, find it necessary to place ads on the competitors' web sites, in their magazines, and all over the electronic world? It must be a fight to either lock out the small competitor or to go for total domination. I guess they have figured out they are losing the battle. Of course we are smart enough to see how things really are and laugh at the irony of it all. They are simply throwing millions away. Besides, it helps keep all those designing advertisements in work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 Julia,It is all about cash flow for Microsoft. Microsoft in many ways is technicaly not a profitable company. They rake in a lot of cash that they expend just as fast. Most employees of Microsoft are very well paid and are often paid in Stock options as well. It not so much how much cash Microsoft keeps but how much flows into the company. This is why they are such zealots about trying to get Windows installed on EVERY computer made. Not every computer needs a word processor or a spreadsheet but they all have to have an OS. This is one of the reasons why you will NEVER see a Word for Linux because every other product Microsoft makes is made to run only on Windows(often only the newest versions) and thus force you to buy a new copy of Windows.If Linux was to gain a significant chunk of the OS desktop market it wouldn't just be setback for Microsoft but a major crisis. One that would impact on the whole computer industry. I'd like to see Microsoft taken down a bit too but on the other hand so much of the industry rides on it's coat tails that such a move could be a true disaster for the economy. The markets know this. When the governement filed suit against Microsoft the markets plunged and it began the end of the dot com boom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 This discussion is quite amusing! The interface I see in the screenshots isn't Luna, it looks more like the one they've had since Windows Me and Windows 2000 and I admit I like it. But then I like Windows XP...*hears the shrieks of terror, the boos and then sees rotten fruit chucked at him*Now, don't get me wrong, I hate Microsoft mainly because of their predatory business practices, the fact they put money above producing a fine product. If I had had to buy XP, I wouldn't have. I couldn't afford it. But I managed to get a copy for review. What I really like about the xpde interface (from what I see; I haven't tried it yet) is that people could put it on a machine to replace XP and many people might not even notice It'd be nice to spring it on people after a month or so that they've been using Linux! :PThe thing I can't figure out though is that it can't all be real. One of the screenshots shows the System Properties with a tab for System Restore... How the heck did he/she do that? Makes me wonder if it's for real. Someone try this and let us know! Come on, right now... don't be afraid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeber Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 And how useful would the regedit screen be on a linux-only box? I smell something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GolfProRM Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 One more question... How can this be legal? Won't MS throw a hissyfit (and a few lawyers XPde's way) when they see this? I can't imagine this flying over too well up in Washington... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeber Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Maybe they can port this to Lindows...and BillG will just disappear in a puff of smoke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden11 Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 All things considered... now someone wants their Linux distro to look and act like XP...? Why not just build the better mousetrap? Or is the only way to compete with MS to use smoke and mirrors?As far as advertising goes... are you all going to tell me that if RH had the ad monies they would not advertise where ever they could to capture as many hearts and minds as they could?Granted MS has more monies than most... but why not build a superior product? And not because Unix geeks say it is better, but the average consumer sticks a CD in his/her CD drive and the resultant OS blows his/her socks off kind of superior product. Isn't that how the little guy is supposed to compete in a competive marketplace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Well I installed this on my Mandrake box. It really kind of weird. Lots of functions don't work. They are just buttons with no functions. Those that do appear to work as you would expect them to. The screens are Windows XP classic mode which resembles Windows 2000. The author doesn't like the luna theme so he isn't doing it that way.Is it a viable replacement for KDE? No. Well it be someday? Very possible. Will it make using Linux easier for Windows trained users? Maybe. Will it survive a lawsuit? NOT any better then an ice cube in heck. Look and Feel lawsuits and copyright will blow this guy out of the sky. This is an exact copy of some of the Windows XP screens. Right down to things that don't work or even make sense on a Linux box. System Restore? Yep theres a system restore tab in the system applet just like XP has. It does nothing but it is there. I don't know if the guy plans on writting a feature like that or not. Other things work. Task manager is in the thing and much of it works! It is really quite strange.Marsden11, There is some merit to having Linux look and work like Windows does if only in softening the learning curve. But I agree that Linux needs to have an interface that is much better then Windows so that people make the jump on merit and not cost. If Apple would release a Intel based version of OS X I grab it in a flash for just that reason. Apple's are easier to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rons Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 If I remember correctly, back when Jobs and Gates were buddy-buddy, Jobs loaned MS 5 of his new Lisa prototypes with a GUI. MS copied the GUI, [with some minor changes] called it Windows and placed it on cheaper clones.So using a XP interface for Linux would seem like fair play to me, though I am sure MS would cry foul! Personally I like KDE. nlinecomputers,Thanks for the update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden11 Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 <<If Apple would release a Intel based version of OS X I grab it in a flash for just that reason. Apple's are easier to use.>>Ever manage a Mac network? I used to manage 11 of them (50+ machines per) several years ago. By the time those networks get around to OS X on every desktop... I spent most of the time re-imaging machines and some of those a couple of times a week.For the schools I worked for... technology trickles in very slowly... teachers for the most part do not do change well... the younger ones were easy to help but the older ones who had been teaching all the adult lives... you would not want to go there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 For the schools I worked for... technology trickles in very slowly... teachers for the most part do not do change well... the younger ones were easy to help but the older ones who had been teaching all the adult lives... you would not want to go there...Teachers are not that bad! You just have to humor them. By nature they are terrible students. I taught a class on spreadsheets last Spring and I hooked them all by showing them applications they would really use. You are right in some respects. Those "real old" teachers are sometimes difficult to drag into the current century. I guess I will never be classified as an old teacher because I tend to rush forward rather than wanting to stay with the current technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsden11 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 The majority of teachers are fantastic!. But for those who did not grow up with technology and are slow to embrace new technology... it is indeed very painful. How do you enable them to understand the benefits of a networked color laser printer in the schools office (or even the teachers lunchroom) where only school employees and teachers go; as opposed to an ink jet in each room? Their number one concern was how to protect confidential docs. The networked color lasers never happened and we had to continue to support 5+ different ink jet printers per school. After all that, there were still some that never used their printers at all... prefering to write it in hand and take it to the school office to make copies...And some would scream like banchees if their e-mail or Web access went south...Mind you I could never handle 30+ young students making a ruckus... they would all be expelled or worse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chr1s Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 The majority of teachers are fantastic!. But for those who did not grow up with technology and are slow to embrace new technology... it is indeed very painful.My mum's a teacher (one of the "older" ones ), but she's really trying hard to get to grips with using computers. She's doing pretty well but isn't getting the help she needs from the college she works for. The IT staff don't seam to be very helpful or feed her false information and the college doesn't provide proper training - it's the "here's a computer, use it" attitude.What you say is probably true to an extent but, as IT professionals, I think we can sometimes forget hust how difficult and daunting it can be for new users of computers. This forum and the users on it understand how daunting Linux can be for Windows users etc and deals with it very well IMHO - I think we can all learn from the user-friendly posting of many of the mods/ users on this forum.Chris ;)p.s. I'm not having a go at you - just making a point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teacher Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 it's the "here's a computer, use it" attitude.Exactly. Research has shown that teachers that do not receive training do not use their computers very efficiently, appropriately, or at all. Training just can not be one time. It must be followed up with applications and repeated use. Once a teacher (or anyone) has used a feature half a dozen times over a few weeks, it takes away the fear factor. When I taught in Missouri and had a grant to do distance learning between four schools, the state insisted that 20% of all funds be used for training. They knew that if the teachers were gong to be comfortable teaching in front of a camera with a computer, document projector, Smart Board, etc., they had to be trained! It also gave us the opportunity to go through everything from what you could legally do, copyright laws, to how to seamlessly switch between pieces of equipment. As far as getting teachers to embrace a color laser printer, I think that as long as they have an in the classroom option, they would love it once they had it. Every year I beg for a color laser printer. It kills me to think of the cost of the ink jet printers. Teachers do need a printer in the classroom because you can not just walk down the hall to go get your copies. You have a class that needs supervision and many administrators frown on even sending a student to get what is needed. If you only have to support 5 different ink jet printers you are doing great. I have 3 or 4 different ones just in my classroom. My main workhorse is a laser printer though. I save the ink jets just for special projects that require color. Marsden you are right in that there are some that it is virtually impossible to bring up to this century. I have even worked with other business teachers that were that way - and they had to teach computers. Of course, I can't tell you how many students would get sent to my room for answers because the teacher could not supply the answers. Those are the ones you can't wait until they retire. Keep in mind that as we get older, sometimes it gets harder to comprehend things. The mind is not quite as sharp as it once was. I won't tell you how I know this. That can be scary as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Exactly. Research has shown that teachers that do not receive training do not use their computers very efficiently, appropriately, or at all. Training just can not be one time. It must be followed up with applications and repeated use. Once a teacher (or anyone) has used a feature half a dozen times over a few weeks, it takes away the fear factor.You're exactly right, Julia. Teachers have to end up leaning these things on their own time because nobody will show them how to do it, and often they don't have enough time to do that.It's amazing how the same problems seem to occur no matter where you are. I was involved in a CAP project (Community Access Program) which went across 25+ schools basically setting up computers with high-speed Internet access (if it was available and dialup if not). What didn't surprise me was that schools had old equipment and crappy Internet speeds (they were on a board-wide network if you could call it that) except that the board spend a LOT of money on computer systems. What did surprise me was that teachers and staff weren't educated on how to use the computer equipment they did have so it didn't matter that they even had it. And of course, where does the new money go to? Getting NEW computer systems, a higher speed network across the board and nothing about spending more money to train teachers. Great. So within a few years, they'll have great technology that nobody knows how to use. Furthermore, the technology the school board did settle on buying is CRAP. The computer leasing company is charging about 50% more per computer for computers you and wouldn't consider buying in the first place. If I was running the show, I'd say take whatever money you spend on computer equipment and use at least HALF of it for training teachers. I've said it before and I'll say it again, how old your equipment is doesn't really matter as long as its functional for its objectives, but if you can't use it what's the point in even having it? I won't even rant on how if they used Linux in the schools, they could save on Microshaft licensing. Sure M$ is used mostly in the world, but it's more important to teach kids how to use a word processor than it is to teach them how to use Word, if you get my meaning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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