XP64 RAID/SATA Drivers

[Cluttermagnet]

My friend with the Dell XPS720 has had a run of bad luck with power glitches, outages, etc. He lost a power supply. Dell covered it under his 4 year warranty and shipped a new supply. We changed out the supply and all is working again. But for some reason, they diagnosed his XP64 install as being broken to the point that they also sent a new WD 250G SATA hard drive to reinstall XP64 on.Now, I have gotten help in here in the past, needing to find the SATA driver for that machine, learning about the need for a floppy drive, doing the "press F6" thing, etc. And I did get his XP Home 32 running fine back then. But I'm having trouble locating the XP64 RAID/SATA drivers for his mobo, which is basically an nVidia board. I can find about every other driver needed for XP64 on the Dell site, but perhaps not this SATA driver. Any suggestions on where to download it? I did a fair amount of searching before giving up Friday night.I wish I had taken better notes as to the various screens I saw during my struggle. Started with recognizing that a USB keyboard was going to be useless during this 'shoehorning' process. Changed to a PS2 kbd. Next, XP64 knew that the 'press F6' floppy we offered it was no good (32 bit drivers). D'oh!!I'm not clear as to whether preparing a 'press F6' floppy is a 'makedisk' sort of thing, or whether you just download the drivers and stuff them on the floppy? I think it has to be a bootable sort of floppy, in effect? I'm a little dazed and confused, hoping for some guidance from more level heads. I'm feeling like a bit of a Windows 'Luddite' at the moment... :hysterical:Oh, BTW regarding the power glitches- he is on a large lot (multi acres) at the end of the line, and his power has proven unreliable. His recent power supply failure was the result of such a 'routine' power drop (not lightning). I recently told him he has now got to get a fairly big UPS for backup, but more important, also one of those inductive/ capacitive power line conditioners/ filters. Those things are amazing- they will smooth most any spike they encounter, and fill in for most any line voltage sag they encounter. Most UPS's and all 'surge strips' do not provide this function in any meaningfully useful way. I have also told him to unplug everything in the summer when going out. He has repeatedly lost major electronics to lightning hits, which his property seems to be a magnet for. But that's a separate issue, the lightning hits. Lightning was not a factor this time.

Edited December 6, 2008 by Cluttermagnet

[goretsky]

Hello,According to Dell's web site, the XPS720 uses an nVidia technology called MediaShield to implement RAID. The drivers for this technology are part of the standard nForce chipset package which can be found here. nVidia does not offer them as a separate download, but they do provide instructions here on how to make a floppy diskette with the required drivers from the chipset driver installation package.Regards,Aryeh Goretsky

[Tushman]

I recently told him he has now got to get a fairly big UPS for backup, but more important, also one of those inductive/ capacitive power line conditioners/ filters.

Clutter, I don't have much time right now but I thought I would add my 2 c. worth. I own 2 UPS models (one is a APC and the other is Belkin). I still have the box for the Belkin and it says on the list of features, "AVR (automatic voltage regulator)". I'm not an expert on UPSs but I think some of them (such as this Belkin) do offer the feature you're talking about as far as offering a steady voltage to the appliance or computer, etc.The other thing is that he doesn't necessary need "a big UPS". The VA rating is simply an indication of the running time it [the computer] would have on battery power before shutting down. So the higher the VA rating, the more minutes he/she would have on battery before needing to shut down.

[Cluttermagnet]

Thanks, Aryeh!That looks about right. I'll check it out in detail, later in the evening, and report back with my results- probably Mon or Tue night after Round 2 with that computer.

[Cluttermagnet]

I still have the box for the Belkin and it says on the list of features, "AVR (automatic voltage regulator)". I'm not an expert on UPSs but I think some of them (such as this Belkin) do offer the feature you're talking about as far as offering a steady voltage to the appliance or computer, etc.

Thanks! Well, I'll look up "AVR" and see what it really is, but I doubt it is the 'line conditioning' I'm talking about. It's maybe possible if we're talking about a high-end model. I doubt it. The feature I'm talking about is definitely not found on low end UPS's. I suspect "AVR" is nothing more than marketing hype describing the ability of a UPS to kick in and supply power if the mains drop off. What I'm talking about is 'passive L/C filtration'. This requires additional components, above and beyond those used to implement the basic UPS, including any MOV's (metal oxide varistors) which may be included in the UPS. Those are merely crude, voltage spike clippers. The extra components used for line conditioning are capacitors and inductors. Such an L/C filter does more than just clip voltage spikes somewhat, as with MOV's, it virtually anihilates them. In addition, these components can supply stored energy in the event of voltage dips, so that these dips also virtually disappear. MOV's definitely cannot mitigate voltage dips, and they are so so at mitigating voltage spikes. BTW most 'spike' events also include voltage dips.Here's an example of a line conditioner product: Control Concepts Islatrol PlusThey are expensive little buggers, BTW. Edited December 7, 2008 by Cluttermagnet

[mac]

Clutter, I don't know how much $ your friend is willing to spend on an UPS, but the best in the business is Falcon Electric. However, the SOHO model is in the $500+ range. They do not distribute through retailers, and so you have to order directly from them. Jerry Pournelle wrote up an excellent review of them.On the SATA HDD issue, I've installed XP and Vista on several PC's with SATA HDD's (and recently SATA optical drives) over the past couple of years and never had a problem with the install requiring special drivers. However, you must go into the BIOS and select the "run as IDE" (or other words to that effect) for the SATA drive/s. I do not run RAID, but I know that XP and Vista both require special drivers for RAID that must be loaded before installing the O/S.

[Cluttermagnet]

On the SATA HDD issue, I've installed XP and Vista on several PC's with SATA HDD's (and recently SATA optical drives) over the past couple of years and never had a problem with the install requiring special drivers. However, you must go into the BIOS and select the "run as IDE" (or other words to that effect) for the SATA drive/s. I do not run RAID, but I know that XP and Vista both require special drivers for RAID that must be loaded before installing the O/S.

Hi mac-Thanks for your comments. The Falcon units look nice. I can't determine from the website data whether they are specifically using L/C filtering. I think they may not need that feature, since they are running 'online' rather than offline like the low end UPS's. But I bet they do have it. They do mention sag elimination, but there are ways other than L/C filtration to accomplish this. They are actively synthesizing the clean sine wave output they supply- from rectified DC from the mains. In effect, they take the energy from your 'dirty power company' and become your (power limited) 'clean power company', and can even do line frequency conversions and such. 120HZ power, anyone? They are definitely a pro solution for clean, conditioned power, plus backup power as well when the mains drop. Yeah, they would be expensive. FWIW, those 'Islatrol Plus' L/C filters run from around 100+ dollars for a little wimpy 2.5Amp unit to around 273. for the 15A big boy model. Yikes! I bought a 5A model about 5-8 years ago for around 105.Oh, BTW I thought I recognized your reference to Jerry Pournelle as the Jerry Pournelle, of science fiction writer fame. His yarns gave me many an interesting hour of reading. Regarding your SATA driver comments, I don't quite get the idea of telling the computer to take the only memory device onboard, a SATA hard drive, and just tell it to 'run as IDE'. I don't quite get that part. But OTOH I do now have the big driver package on hand that nVidia supplies, and I know which little SATA/RAID drivers to extract to a Floppy disk. So I'm not too worried now- my next session with that computer should result in successfully getting the Dell- supplied XP Pro 64 install CD to see the SATA drive so I can load XP onto that new drive.It would be better, of course, if Dell could maybe slipstream those drivers on their CD but apparently they do not. So if you are lucky, you can pull them off of a floppy drive. I had to put a floppy on my friend's computer last time for this very reason. There are also ways to do this 'press F6 thing' without the floppy drive, but that sure is the easiest way by far! Edited December 8, 2008 by Cluttermagnet

[Tushman]

On the SATA HDD issue, I've installed XP and Vista on several PC's with SATA HDD's (and recently SATA optical drives) over the past couple of years and never had a problem with the install requiring special drivers. However, you must go into the BIOS and select the "run as IDE" (or other words to that effect) for the SATA drive/s.

What you might be referring to is using the AHCI or the legacy mode in the BIOS. Using the AHCI is better if you're using SATA drives that support NCQ and with RAID configuration. Otherwise, I always just go with legacy IDE.

Regarding your SATA driver comments, I don't quite get the idea of telling the computer to take the only memory device onboard, a SATA hard drive, and just tell it to 'run as IDE'. I don't quite get that part.

Oh c'mon now, a smart man like you can keep track of all those acronyms and gadgets and thing-a-mabobs!What don't you don't get it? If it doesn't behave just give it a good stiff 'whack' with your hand or kick it until it burps. If it does not compute, you must reboot. Basically IDE HDD and SATA HDDs works the same way in terms of how it saves files onto the platter. Obviously, the Serial ATA specification allows for better data transfer rates but there are other reasons why it's superior to IDE HDDs. For SATA drives that support NCQ, it allows for better read & access times. Seek and read latency is greatly reduced. NCQ also allows for multiple outstanding I/O requests to be qeued up in order so that the operating system has less shuffling to do between handling the I/O tasks and communicating with the processor. AFAIK, all SATA II drives support NCQ. Not so with SATA I drives. Even if you were using a SATA II drive, you still would run in legacy IDE mode because the perceived increase in speed using AHCI is hardly noticeable. This is my advice if you're running in a non-RAID configuration. Edited December 9, 2008 by Tushman

[Cluttermagnet]

Thanks, Aryeh!That looks about right. I'll check it out in detail, later in the evening, and report back with my results- probably Mon or Tue night after Round 2 with that computer.

Success! Thanks again, Aryeh. XP64 installed just fine on his SATA drive, once I had the right RAID and SATA drivers from nVidia on a floppy. "Press F6" and away you go... What I learned here, and on my own search, is the general principle that the mother board manufacturer is always the source of these two key drivers needed to get things started with a new SATA drive. In this case, nVidia and not Dell. In addition, that pdf with instructions from nVidia was invaluable. Don't know exactly how you found that, but it was exactly what was needed. The info in the pdf shaves off a little time rooting around in that big nVidia drivers package to find the right folders and files. And I must say, it's not exactly intuitively obvious that those two drivers might be included, buried inside 56M of other drivers. From force of habit, I might expect them to be mainly video in nature. But here, nVidia is the manufacturer of not only the video cards used (2x with SLI), but also the mobo itself. Edited December 9, 2008 by Cluttermagnet

[Tushman]

Success! Thanks again, Aryeh. XP64 installed just fine on his SATA drive, once I had the right RAID and SATA drivers from nVidia on a floppy. "Press F6" and away you go... What I learned here, and on my own search, is the general principle that the mother board manufacturer is always the source of these two key drivers needed to get things started with a new SATA drive. In this case, nVidia and not Dell. In addition, that pdf with instructions from nVidia was invaluable. Don't know exactly how you found that, but it was exactly what was needed. The info in the pdf shaves off a little time rooting around in that big nVidia drivers package to find the right folders and files. And I must say, it's not exactly intuitively obvious that those two drivers might be included, buried inside 56M of other drivers. From force of habit, I might expect them to be mainly video in nature. But here, nVidia is the manufacturer of not only the video cards used (2x with SLI), but also the mobo itself.

I hate big driver packages where you have to dig through layers of folders just to find the right one. BTW, nVidia doesn't make any motherboards. They do however supply the chipsets for the motherboard manufacturers! :)And I'm willing to bet you they don't even make the chipsets themselves - they're only the architects/designers of the chipsets. Probably all outsourced to them crazy asians overseas anyways. LOL. I've been accused of looking like Jackie Chan myself ... what can I say, I'm handsome as the . LOL. Edited December 9, 2008 by Tushman

[Cluttermagnet]

Yes, I figured as much- nVidia listed as the 'manufacturer' but having them made by another mobo house in Asia. They must be video chipset developers and video driver software developers, mainly. And not manufacturers at all. They might have small scale IC fab capabilities, and farm the volume stuff out for regular production. Probably they are not that vertically integrated, though.BTW my friend has now purchased a used 15A L/C filter on Ebay, to combine with a new UPS yet to be bought. That will put him in better shape. In talking to him, I found out that there are quite a number of compressor type loads on that power drop. Inductive loads like that are notorious for garbaging up the line with spikes when switching on and off. We'll see if the filter helps (the UPS would not help).

Edited December 10, 2008 by Cluttermagnet