Other Scot's Newsletter Test Forums

[Scot]

This forum is the newest Scot's Newsletter test forum, and as such has far less traffic so far. Because I'm still in the process of examing four forum applications, I invite you to check out the various implementations.Currently Running Scot's Newsletter Test Forums: phpBB2: http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/phpbb2/index.phpUBB.classic 6.x Trial Version: http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi-- Scot

[havnblast]

Looks great and it is easy to customize it with your own graphics and looks plus lots of resources for it Here find mods, converters, graphics etc... I am happy with my invisionboard - pretty hard to mess it up. I have installed IPB since it first came out and it has only improved with more features and it was always stable even in the beta stages.Got my Vote My IPB Forum with mods and custom skinning

[Guest Paracelsus]

Hey Scot!, Well, I have to say that I found this board a little confusing.... basically because I'm most familiar with UBB. It seems to me that there are almost TOO MANY options. Especially in the "Profile" area. Have to access too many different areas to make a few simple changes I also couldn't get the board to recognize me as being logged until I enabled "auto" cookie handling. I prefer to limit the mumber of cookies I accept and generally add an "Exception" to IE6 for Websites were I will always accept (such as BB's). This confused me at first, because I've never had any trouble getting a cookie notification pop-up in IE from a new BB. Admittedly, this may have just been my particular PC, this morning. (The preceeding is One Man's Opinion... Your Mileage May Vary)

[Guest Paracelsus]

Well...I've looked this over a bit more. One thing I Do like (if it works) is the ability to build a personal "Archive" of posts. As a (fairly) frequent contributor to the Axialis Software Forum, I come across postings there that are of great value in helping new members answer their questions a/o resolve their difficulties. It can become a chore, after a couple of years, of remembering were these particular posts (and threads) are located. The ability to build a reference to helpful info would be a great benefit.On the negative side...I've just spent 5 minutes trying to log in. Even though I placed this Website on my "Always Allow" list for Cookie handling in IE6... This board would not recognize my Log-in until I set Cookie handling for "Accept ALL Cookies" AND set it for the Lowest security setting!! Again... there may be something funny happening with my PC. But I've NEVER had this happen on a UBB BB.I'm not a security freak , But I would have severe reservations participating in a BB Forum that requires me to set Cookie handling this way.

[Scot]

Paracelsus,There are config options that let me mess with cookies, etc. I haven't changed them from their defaults. And certainly I would if this causes general problems. But, fyi, I'm using IE6 and I'm not seeing this problem. In fact, I'm logged in automatically. But, then, I just found that I have cookies set to the lowest setting. Frankly, I'm not a big fan of IE6's cookie controls. I recently had all sorts of trouble with Microsoft Passport because I had cookies set above lowest, by the way. If Microsoft can't figure it out between their own wallet/ID service and their latest browser ... but, I agree. This needs consideration. I've set IE6 to default on cookies, and I'll see how this affects me.-- Scot

[Scot]

This forum is now one of *four* Scot's Newsletter test forums now in operation. Please take a look at the others, and let me know what you think:Currently Running Scot's Newsletter Test Forums: Infopop UBB.threads trial version:http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/forum-ubbt/phpBB2: http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/phpbb2/index.phpInfopop UBB.classic 6.x Trial Version: http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi-- Scot

[rmt0215]

Ok, I'm in. Oh, I just found a feature of this forum that makes me reverse my opinion. I just finished posting in phpBB that I like that forum better. However I see know that the messages to which I am replying are printed at the bottom of this page as I type. What a great idea! I have a very bad habit of forgetting to what I was replying by the time I get to start typing.

[Arena2045]

Scot,Same text posted on all 4 test forums.UBB.c :First of all I would like to say thanks for not giving up on UBB.c, the BB that I mainly use and frequent, when you noticed that it was 'slow.'As previously posted, I have come to love the ease of use (posting/viewing), the stability, and the number of easily accessible/customizable Admin/Mod options, etc... While I am a fan of UBB.c I've spent a lot of time at your other test forums and I must say (to my surprise) that I think the Invision Power Board is my top pick.I have just started to notice that your UBB.c test forum is a bit slow compared to others, and I think that IPB's admin options better suit a large, dynamic community.Invision Power Board :A BB has to be really good (and I mean really good) to sway this hardcore UBB.c owner/user/fan. I spent well over two hours trying the online demo of the Invision BB admin area w/forum and I really really like it. I think the performance is fast, has a decent GUI, and has a lot of options both for the user and admin/mod. Like you said Scot, its appears to be a mixture of UBB.c and PHPbb features!However, I think that having to dig through so many options just to customize the personal profile is a pain. That goes for UBB.Threads as well. I believe that anyone who has a little determination will be able to adapt quickly with the UI of Invision PB.I do visit one IPB on occasion, but the admins must have it limited because the latest version that you are running has so many extra features!!!I can see IPB working smoothly for a large dynamic community.Psst... Don't tell anyone but after tying the online admin demo of Invision PB for over two hours, I'm seriously considering the possibility of switching to Invision PB for my main community (and using my UBB.c BB for another site). The admin/mod options offer so much that I would like to customize that UBB.c just doesn't offer. And just the fact that Invision Power Services offers such a demo online is outstanding in my book.PHPbb :Hmm...As you know I've posted a number of times since you posted the PHPbb forum, mainly in defense of UBB.c (see above).After testing all your other boards, I would personally pick Invision PB (see above). I just see IPB being able to handle a growing active community.If it comes down to a decision between IPB and PHPbb I think either will do extremely well!UBB.Threads :Wow... the only UBB.Threads forum that I've used is the test one on Infopop's website, and needless to say it’s a bit different than I remember. I may have been thinking of Infopop’s hosted UBB.x forum.After testing your other test forums, I don't like the layout/navigation, and I just don't like the GUI. The GUI makes me feel like its PRE-UBB.C, not an advancement in the right direction (just my opinion). I do however like the option to 'thread' (collapse/expand) topics and whole categories.Sorry Infopop, I may be a fan of UBB.c but UBB.threads doesn't get my vote.---Summary :Invision Power Board – Top Pick! Lots of options, fast, decent UI.PHPbb – Either IPB or PHPbb would suit a large dynamic community.UBB.c – I’m a fan of UBB.c, it works, I like the UI/options, but may not work for you since there are performance issues (still being tested)…UBB.Threads – Hmm… Don’t like the UI, I like UBB.c better. Wouldn’t consider.---This is all my opinion! I will support Scot with what ever decision he makes, with no hard feelings.

[Scot]

For what it's worth, I too have been mightily impressed with Invision Power Board. There may be a problem with cookies that I'm checking into. But in many ways, this is my current leader. At the moment I'd have to say that UBB.threads is in second place for me. All you phpBB2 fans, I love the ui too. In fact, I like it the best of all the forums I've tested for user-interface. But, unfortunately, the config capabilities are just really weak. Too weak, most likely. -- Scot

[havnblast]

A popular site that just recently switched to IPB is www.lockergnome.com - I believe it was like a month ago they converted over. I cant remember which forum board they used before but Lockergnome Forum has like 2338 members with over 25,000 posts and if you notice the version, they are still running the beta version. It's very stable even in beta.I dont have cookie problems either, I can login automatically with IPB. I think you will be very satisfied with IPB

[Guest Paracelsus]

For what it's worth, I too have been mightily impressed with Invision Power Board. There may be a problem with cookies that I'm checking into. But in many ways, this is my current leader. At the moment I'd have to say that UBB.threads is in second place for me. All you phpBB2 fans, I love the ui too. In fact, I like it the best of all the forums I've tested for user-interface. But, unfortunately, the config capabilities are just really weak. Too weak, most likely. -- Scot

Hello Again, I played around with cookie settings again and here is what I came across: 1) If I want to login without using auto-login (I just don't like having passwords stored on my PC), I have to set IE6 to Accept All Cookies and set it to the lowest security setting. (I know I've already said this ) 2) If I leave the login set to Auto-login, then IPB DOES recognize my login... even with my cookie handling set to override default settings and to Prompt. (I hadn't tried this before. I kept clicking the radio button to NOT remember me next time.) So this may be less of a cookie issue and just something peculiar as to how IPB is processing login requests.So long as I can keep my cookie settings as I prefer, I can live with Auto-login (I can alway delete stored passwords if I want.) SCOT... I wouldn't spend too much time on the cookie thing. I don't think it's something that deserves a lot of attention

[Scot]

Hi, Paracelsus. Thanks for checking it out and explaining. I have a link for you that may help you further (I'm not sure). This is from the IPS tech support area, and it describes in detail for specific browser versions how to work cookies/privacy settings and the IPB board.http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?...ST&f=87&t=31198Also, what I became concerned about with IPB while looking into this is that, while most other boards give you the option to turn on or off the use of cookies, IPB does not. It expects cookies. Frankly, I prefer the use of cookies as a forum user myself. I think concerns about cookies are overrated. But ... I'm sensitive to the fact that many people don't like cookies, and don't want them happening -- even for the good reason (in my view) of storing the password and making access to a site more convenient.My point: I would prefer the option to turn off cookies, even if I don't start out that way. Users can work without them if they like, but the use of cookies appears to be the default and only behavior of the board itself. It's one of the few negatives I've found with IPB so far. I'm still hoping that I've missed that setting somewhere. One thing I can do is name the cookies with the scotsnewsletter.com domain name, so at least people will know where the cookie came from. Not every board offers that feature.-- Scot

[Scot]

Anyone reading this who is familiar with the Invision's "Skins," I could use some help figuring this out. Changing IPB's look and feel seems a LOT more complicated to me than many other boards. I want to be able to just choose a look and feel from a menu and turn it on. I'm not that interested in making my own skin from the ground up. Is the former idea possible with IPB?Thanks. If you prefer, you can also email me:scot@scotsnewsletter.com(Use something like "IPB Skins" in the subject line, because I get hundreds of emails to the above address.)-- Scot

[havnblast]

http://www.xskins.com/http://forums.ibskins.com/are two sites dedicated to skinning for IPB - I myself did my own but editing the skin_global.php file and stylesheet_1.css file. also in the Admin CP under Skins and Templates you can edit files for looks. I prefer to work with the 2 files mentioned using Dreamweaver and TopStyle - hope that helps

[Scot]

Havnblast, did you do your own graphics? That's the issue for me. I don't mind editing CSS or any of the rest really. I'm just not a graphic designer.-- Scot

[Arena2045]

Hey Scot,Luck be told, my web host just started offering (to select few) access to mySQL, so I downloaded and installed IPB to test it out : Arena2045 IPB Test CommunityAfter setting up IPB I too noticed that the default/standard install doesn’t offer any extra skins or an ‘easy’ way to change the appearance like UBB.cTaking a few mins to peruse the board images, I quickly was able to make my own ‘board’ image; just by adding my text/image, with the proper background (the standard blue) :About downloading other skins… I checked out some sites that are dedicated to skins for IPB and I must say, some of them have (lets see, how to put it nicely…) ugly graphics.Unless you find a skin that is to your liking, or use the “Snow†version of the standard IPB that comes already installed, you may be stuck making your own images to suit and changing the CSS style sheets, etc.I’m working on making some of my own graphics and see how they turn out…I installed IPB as a test and possible replacement BB once my UBB.c free upgrade license runs dry… Trust me I still like my UBB.c and it is a great addition to my sites, but I’m leaving the door open to possibilities now!

[Scot]

Arena2045, we are working on the same stuff at the same time. I've spent that last couple of hours looking through the same IB skin sites, even uploading a few of them to check them out. I've found a couple I like, but as you said, nothing that blows my doors off.I also have no graphics of the right size and shape to use with the board.What do you use to make graphics with? Or do you have someone who does this?I checked out your IPB test board, but quickly got lost checking out all your sites. I'm going to have to come back and do this later.Charles got back to me. Apparently my test shows an issue with the file system. Charles is concernced that I might be on a network filesystem instead of on my own NTFS partition. So I have to check with my webhost about that.-- Scot

[Arena2045]

Scot, LOL You got me interested in IPB! But I’m still dedicated to my UBB.c forum. Anyway…

What do you use to make graphics with? Or do you have someone who does this?

About graphics:If you checkout my network HUB you can see the different “font†designs that I use for my sites. I’ve created those logos (and text buttons on each site) using three graphic tools:- Microsoft PhotoDraw 2000 version 2 (Discontinued by MS on May 31, 2001)- Macromedia Fireworks MX- Macromedia Freehand 10Currently I’m working on making the button graphics (etc.) for my IPB using:- Microsoft PhotoDraw 2000 version 2- Macromedia Fireworks MX- Macromedia Freehand 10- IconWorkshop Corporate Edition (Yes, that’s right an icon editor!)I’m a little surprised that there are not that many graphics that make up the GUI of IPB… There are about 80 main images but I’m only going to customize about 50 of them (that’s excluding some post notifications, emoticons, and the topic icons).Just an FYI, I’m no graphic designer! I’m limited only by the imagination, and of course, the programs I use.

I checked out your IPB test board, but quickly got lost checking out all your sites. I'm going to have to come back and do this later.

LOL sorry about that! I tried having one main category like yours but covering 4 sites is a bit difficult without separate categories. Again, its only a test.

Charles got back to me. Apparently my test shows an issue with the file system. Charles is concernced that I might be on a network filesystem instead of on my own NTFS partition. So I have to check with my webhost about that.

Charles was the one who replied to my email (as you already know)… I hope that this possible problem isn’t too severe. If it is, I guess installing the trial of UBB.c might have found a mistake host-side.

[Arena2045]

Hmm… Ok I take back what I said! I’ve given up (for the moment anyway) on making new images for my IPB test forum. Making such small images is a pain, to say the least. The title (see previous reply) was easily done… but the smaller: new topic, reply, poll, forum new/old icons, etc. are difficult.

[Scot]

Yeah, this is why I'm a little leery of IPB right now. Making skins, easy. Making a truly well done skin, very hard. I know my limitations. Having been a magazine editor for lots of years helped me to learn that fast, though. So I had that edge. The more I use IPB, the more I prefer phpBB's ui too.I recently discovered that phpBB has a ton of downloadable "mods" that fill in some of the blanks in its lack of config options. This seems very strange to me. (It is, of course, very open source-like.) There's a whole forum of stuff you can download to help you admin phpBB2.It's clear to me that users prefer phpBB2's ui. I've been getting that message loud in clear both in email and on the boards themselves.I still haven't made up my mind. And UBB.c is still in the running, fwiw. I'm focusing now on trying to make IPB the place I want it to be. I may run a user vote in the next issue of the newsletter. Unfortunately, the Infopop trial forums will quickly reach their maximums and shut down if I do that. So I may not point them out specifically, but allow people to find them from the posts in phpBB2 and IPB.-- Scot

[Guest Paracelsus]

Well... I just had to through in my 2¢ here.Excuse me, everyone, if I come across as a bit prosaic, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to get too caught up in the "Graphics Fashion" thing.Granted, you want the board to be appealing and attract people. But I should hope that those who may become regular participants would be more concerned with Functionality than "Glitz"Personally, I believe the main focus should be:1) A program that functions well on Scot's Network and Web Host. (And a vendor that will provide the support he may want/need)2) A program that provides maximum user customizablity... Yet not so confusing to do so that a potential member gets frustrated.3) A program that will be expandable/upgradable, without straining the Host's financial resources (Hopefully, contributions will help ameliorate this)Very last... and Very least...4) Showy graphics, buttons & borders. And cutesy things like Gazillions of Smilies & Avatars.After all...Like the guy who gets a new paint job for his car, when what it really needs is an engine rebuild...Sure, it looks nice... But will it take you anywhere! As always, the preceeding is one man's opinion... Your mileage may very

[Arena2045]

Paracelsus,I agree 100%!As you know I've just redone my UBB.c forum to my liking; simple, functional, and not to flashy.I think I'm going to stick with the standard blue skin for my IPB test.

[Guest Paracelsus]

Paracelsus,I agree 100%!As you know I've just redone my UBB.c forum to my liking; simple, functional, and not to flashy.I think I'm going to stick with the standard blue skin for my IPB test.

Hi Arena2045, Please understand that my previous commentary was not directed at anyone in particular. (You know me better than that). Perhaps a bit coincidental that this came after several posts between you and Scot on this subject. I had originally intended make a similar post on the php board, as there had been several posts there from people about skins and mods, etc. ... And there are some people who are more into "Form" than "Function".And I know you are not one of them. I enjoy your tastefully designed Websites. Pleasing to view while being simple enough to navigate easily and load quickly.

[Scot]

I too agree with your statement, Paracelsus. The problem is that the forum software has a logo and branding that promotes the forum software, and that at least has to be changed. And, well, there are only two flavors, period. I'm not looking for anything flashy either. IPB does make this aspect harder than any other board software I've looked at. Their own forums and the forums of sites that support them are filled with freaked out people who can't figure out how to do the most basic things to change look and feel. It's the opposite experience than you have with most forum software. -- Scot

[havnblast]

Hi ScottYes I did my own graphics and I also edited the original graphics that came with IPB by using PhotoShop. I enjoy doing that kinda thing even tho I am not much of a graphic designer. Just a thought here Scott, but I am sure there are many people that are subscribed to your newsletter that are good with graphics. Why not have a contest? Have a skinning or graphical contest for your forum. People can submit their work and people can vote, I bet you would get a lot of interest in that and it would be fun. Were you able to see the mods available for IPB at http://www.ibresource.com/ ? Let us know what you think about the contest.

[Arena2045]

Scot,I agree with the Logo in the left corner, but like I posted before it’s easily changed.If you want, I can make a few different logos using the standard IPB blue gradient background (which is provided) for you.What I don’t understand about your comment is that PHPbb has an even larger logo, which I’m sure is replaceable just like in UBB.c and IPB. Also if a person has used the BB software before, no matter what skin you choose they will know in a way who made the program. Also doesn’t almost every BB software require that the copyright information not be removed from the script files? Branding is going to be hidden somewhere, whether in the way the BB operates, logos/images, or copyrights hidden deep below.About the branding, if you pay the one time $100 payment for IPB, then you can remove all branding from Invision (except for the script copyright information). The topic buttons would have to be changed… they say ‘ipb’ but that can easily be done by you or someone else.

Their own forums and the forums of sites that support them are filled with freaked out people who can't figure out how to do the most basic things to change look and feel. It's the opposite experience than you have with most forum software.

[sTART RANT]Opinion Starting (so watch out): True about the skins… But which BB will suit your NEEDS? Do you honestly want to sit down, and download all the various Mods for PHPbb and have to install them, then tweak them, then test them… when similar options are already part of IPB?Why doesn’t PHPbb have a working version that has the different mods built in??? Why should you or anyone else have to download, and spend more time installing extra Mods (then tweaking and testing) for features that are no-brainers and should be included anyway?Bottom line…The logo can be removed/changed, and the little topic buttons (viewable on the main page) can easily be replaced (just by making new ones, and uploading the files as the same names as the old ones), and still look great with the standard Blue or Snow colors of IPB.My personal opinion on which GUI is better between IPB and PHPbb is IPB.TODAY: I had a heck of a time changing my email address (on your PHPbb) in my profile, because it kept saying that my password was incorrect, when I wasn’t even changing my password! Then the BB says that my password is incorrect, so I have to reset it, my account becomes inactive, and the head aches go on from there.No matter what anyone says, you should make the decision on which BB you feel meets your needs. Once you know which ones meets your requirements then I would worry about the images.[END RANT] [Preparing for retaliation and flames…] [Duck and Cover]I think havnblast's suggestion of a contest would be a great idea.

[Guest Paracelsus]

I needn't think you should hold your breath waiting for retaliation & flames, Arena2045. There's nothing wrong with having passionate convictions.But I can also understand (never being more than a member/user, myself), that the intricacies of BB Administration can rapidly become mind numbing, when reviewing the different formats out there, for someone who hasn't navigated those shoals before.I can understand all aspects of this situation. And it sounds as if you and several other folks are more than willing to help Scot get things set-up and running the way he would like. And no doubt provide some tutorials on BB modifications and "Help Desk" support :D

[Scot]

Hey, guys. I'm just REALLY happy to have folks like you to bounce things off. Your ideas, your insights, you tips, they're all very helpful. You've given me a lot of your time, and I'm aware that's a valuable thing.Arena2045, I wasn't trying to make a case against IPB purely on skins/logo/branding. I agree that this is minor compared to admin/config capabilities, which phpBB2 is clearly lacking in. I completely agree (and I think even posted in one of these forums) that these phpBB config mods are strange and not desireable. But from the look and feel point of view, I found the default skin for UBB.threads I would use in about 5 minutes just looking at the onboard skin pack. For phpBB2, I'm going to have to spend a lot of extra time learning a pretty arcane method of modifying skins. It's work I don't relish and have little experience with. I'm proficient with scripts and HTML, but I read some things this morning that made me realize that skinning IPB properly is going to take a lot of busy work. I'm not keen on it. I'd rather spend that time writing newsletters.But, that said, there is also something about the member ui in phpBB2 that I strongly prefer. For me, indicators that a new message is there, formatting buttons, and several other intuitive functions for casual posters are better. Just the feeling of posting in phpBB2 is better (IMHO) than it is in IPB. (All this forum software needs closer-to-hand Post Reply buttons though.)Now, having said that, I agree there are issues with user management in phpBB2. And, as you know, that's just totally unacceptable. I can't get into that kind of situation. I highly doubt I will choose phpBB2. But I can't help but lament the loss of some of its better qualities.Perhaps you are tiring of my lack of decision? If so, I'll warn you that this might go on a while yet.One thing I have decided, I think, UBB.c is crossed off my list. It went down twice today inexplicably. Charles isn't able to find anything wrong, but it's clear that something just isn't right with UBB.c and my server.Also, like you, the UBB.threads ui just seems really strange to me. I think at this point I'm just still convincing myself that IPB is workable for me. But I'm going to have to fully make myself at home in it before I commit. The skin stuff isn't making that easy.-- Scot

[havnblast]

ScottIf you want to go with IPB I would gladly help out in any way with the GUI, I love to do that stuff and it sounds like Arena2045 would help out as much as possible too. I'm not an expert or anything but I know enough and I have the extra time to help out. Ideas are already starting to follow in on graphic buttons and stuff like that, but of course you would have final say on anything and it's not something that has to be done over night. I also feel if you open up a skinning contest, you may get someone to produce the perfect skin. Another thing with the interaction of the members is it helps create loyal people and gives them a sense of belonging. Nobody likes to post in a forum where they don't feel wanted.Keep the idea open of using those that want to help and involve the community greatly. Just got to let us know.

[Mike]

Howdy there folks... Dude! with 4 different forums going it's a pita to read all of them even though they all say about the same stuff... So since this seems to be the board of choice (and the fact that I'm the one to turn you onto it) I'll post my response here... I like this board.. The default graphics are fine to start out with, I'm more interested in the functionality of this thing and the ease of reading than I am about flashy graphics... although I know that you'll want to personalize it a bit for yourself... also you really can't complain about the price... either FREE! if you leave their logo or a one-time $100 fee and the right to change the logo's that seems QUITE reasonable to me... You're never going to find the perfect software for this thing heck you can't find perfect software for anything out there... there's always a feature or quirk that one package has that another doesn't... that's a fact of life... (that's also what suggestions to the developers is all about...) personally since I'm from the BBS era I prefer black backgrounds and various forground colors... If I can I'll be happy to work on a graphic or two or moderate or whatever is needed... I'm just glad that your host setup mysql which has allowed you to try this software and give it it's dues...BTW I saw my avatar some time ago and I about fell over... Safe-Sex... Also I'm using Mike2 because when I signed up I put my @techie.com address and mail.com is not available right now so I had to sign up again with a different address....