Heatsink compound (thermal grease)

[telecomguy9]

Hi all,I have a P4 3.0E GHz Preston or Prescott, I can't remember which name they used, CPU that is running hot (I know they do this by default, it's just how they work). Anyway, I have a heatsink/fan rated for a 3.2GHz processor and some generic heatsink compound in use. I'm wondering if changing out the heatsink compound could dramatically drop the temps I'm seeing. Right now when I boot up the computer and do nothing with it I see the temp running around 40 degrees celsius, and it often goes into the mid fifties when I'm doing anything intensive (I think I saw it go up to 60 when playing America's Army as well). I have some Arctic Silver 5 on the way, but am wondering if it will make that big a dent in the temps I'm seeing. If you don't think so I might also get a new heatsink/fan to go with the new compound and install them both at once to see if I can get the temp to drop about 10 degrees. Let me know what you think.

Edited February 19, 2007 by telecomguy9

[epp_b]

40 and 60 degrees Celsius are pretty normal, AFAIK. But, yes, I think Arctic Silver will make a bit of difference. You could also get some auxiliary case fans to keep the surrounding area cooler and for better overall heat dissipation.

[telecomguy9]

Thanks for the quick reply. I've been told that to possibly see if additional case fans (added airflow) will be beneficial I should run the PC with the case open and see if the temp runs cooler. If so, add airflow/fans. If not, than what? Does this sound like it might be a good indicator of whether or not better cooling is needed?

[Debora]

Here's my thought.... when in doubt, regrease.... but.. ONLY if you really know what you're doing. Too much or too little can cause more problems. If you find it difficult to do free hand, so-to-speak, here's my hint.... I use a credit card. The ones that come freebies in junk mail and are almost totally clear plastic. I cut one strip just about the size of my thumb's width, apply one drop at the very end of the credit card, letting it spread just wide enough to cover the chip. then using somewhat of an angle spread it like butter across the top of the chip. This is way easier than trying to do it free hand and getting an even coat is almost fool proof. If you get too much or too little, wipe it ALL off and start over. It's much better to get it right than have to take the entire thing all apart again.

[ross549]

It may help, and it may not. I really don't know. Most cases that are self-built tend to be over ventilated. The challenge then becomes how to get heat off the processor much more efficiently. Arctic Silver will help, and should get you another 1-2 degrees C down on the CPU temperature (their website will have detailed instructions on how to apply it). The best way to get the heat off your CPU will be a better heatsink/fan combo.There are a lot of resources out there with information for cooling your CPU.Adam

[telecomguy9]

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas, ladies and gents. Hey Debora, I actually read another poster in some other forum talking about how he spreads around the thermal grease with his finger while wearing a pair of nylong gloves or something (like the kind they use in the hospital). What do you all think about that for making sure you have the goo spread evenly everywhere it's supposed to be?

[ross549]

That won't hurt anything, but you must make sure to have a very thin layer on the CPU, or else the grease will act as a insulator, compounding your problem (pun not intended).The Arctic Silver website has good instructions on how to apply the paste. ;)Adam

[Debora]

I actually prefer a cheap sandwich bag, I prefer that because I usually have them around, they're thin and when you're done they toss easily and you can turn them inside out with the goo to the inside and put the piece of credit card you've also used inside and avoid anyone (I have tiny kids here lol) from making a bigger mess should they find it in the trash. ;-0The main thing is to be sure you start with a totally clean surface and do NOT touch any of those clean surfaces with your skin/fingers to avoid putting any of your oils on it.

[telecomguy9]

Thanks for your thoughts, Debora. I have used a credit card as well, though I've never thought to cut it down to size. that's a good idea.

[ross549]

The main thing is to be sure you start with a totally clean surface and do NOT touch any of those clean surfaces with your skin/fingers to avoid putting any of your oils on it.

And clean he heatsink and the CPU with isopropyl alcohol before applying the grease, to make sure they are clean. I use cotton swabs for that task.;)Adam

[telecomguy9]

I actually bought the Arctic Silver cleaning kit a week or so ago, even though I could have used alcohol.Quick question everyone. I went to Arctic Silver's web site to look at the instructions for applying their grease and they said "if your P4 single core CPU with heatspreader..." Should I assume that this chip is "with heatspreader?" Here's the link to what and where I bought and it doesn't say anything about that.http://www.newegg.com/product/product.asp?...N82E16819116027

[ross549]

Yep, yours has a heat spreader. ;)Adam

[telecomguy9]

Do me a favor and take a look at this, too, from Arctic Silver's web site - http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appinstruc...lecore_wcap.pdfGo down to "Finishing the application" and take a look at the image provided. It shows a P4 processor with the goo applied and than another one right below it with the heat spreader off of the processor showing where the single core is located. It seems like that is how mine would look if I removed the heat spreader, too. So according to Arctic Silver I really do only need the tiniest drop of goo? If so this is really cool and makes things so much less complicated (and stressful).ross, once I went further down the pdf I could tell mine had a heat spreader. I just hadn't travelled down the pdf far enough to see what it looks like without a heat spreader... =)

[Debora]

yeah, that's the reason I cautioned about the too much/ too little part. A lot of people think if little is good then alot is great when in fact it can be just the opposite and if too much it can squeeze all over the place and make a mess not to mention, artic silver is after all silver and can conduct and that's part of the reason one must be careful to only use the correct amount.

[ross549]

Yep, just a drop. The grease only fills the tiny imperfections in the surface of the processor and the heatsink to enable better thermal contact. where the metal of the heatsink and the CPU directly touch, it is not needed. Hence the small drop and the not in the instructions to twist the heatsink slightly in each direction to push the grease into the small imperfections of the metal.

[telecomguy9]

Yikes, I had no idea that only that little drop of the stuff is needed. It might be a little bit different with other brands of goo, right, but not very different I'm sure? According to that pdf I put quite a bit too much of the cheap Radio Shack stuff on the processor last week. However, even though there's too much it did bring the temp down 5 degrees average so I guess it's letting the heat through better than the original paste I applied so horribly. This is sweet. I'm very excited about applying this new stuff now that I know I don't have to use a ton of it in the first place. This makes me so much less nervous about applying new goo (after cleaning off the old stuff first, of course).

[Debora]

Yup.... this IS fun!!! it's what brings all of us back to it over and over!! LOL, and yes, a little will go a long way so don't be disappointed when the size of the tube arrives! LOL I remember the first one I ever purchased, I was expecting something like a 10cc syringe, and instead got a tiny little thing and remember thinking, geez that's all I get for that amount of money??? And as I tell all my clients, remember this, you can't break anything that's not fixable..... with a little more work and perhaps some more cash that is... LOLOn and I forgot to add... no it's not that much different with other types of thermal paste. It's just that artic puts a great how to article that the others don't always choose to include. Visuals are so much better.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Debora

[telecomguy9]

Yep, just a drop. The grease only fills the tiny imperfections in the surface of the processor and the heatsink to enable better thermal contact. where the metal of the heatsink and the CPU directly touch, it is not needed. Hence the small drop and the not in the instructions to twist the heatsink slightly in each direction to push the grease into the small imperfections of the metal.

Thanks ross. I hadn't travelled far enough down the pdf file to see the processor without a heat spreader when I posted that last question about whether or not mine has one. After I posted I kept reading and realized it indeed does. Now I understand that you don't need to put a ton of goo all over the cpu, only what is recommended by Arctic Silver. I'm glad you guys pointed me to their web site for application instructions. I had no idea so little was needed.The Arctic Silver 5 just arrived at my office. I'll apply it tonight and post back tomorrow to let you know if there is any noticeable difference in temperature. The pdf says it could take up to 200 hours to really see the benefit of it, but I'll let you know what happens initially anyway.You all have been a great help. Thanks a ton.

[Debora]

Well, tomorrow may not be long enough..... you should boot, run for a few hours then shut it down to a total cooling off period. I usually tell my clients to do this for a couple days.... just turn it off when you're not using it for the first few days to let it all meld the way it needs to using the different temps.Then take your measurements. And, after that stability is confirmed, you can leave it on all the time, Unless of course, you live in California!! then shut it off just to conserve their precious resource!!!!! ;-)

[telecomguy9]

Yeah, the PC is used by my daughter off and on all day long (she's home schooled). However, the public schools in my area are all closed for the week so she has the week off, too. However, I'm sure she'll want it on from morning till night anyway. It is always off all night long, if nothing else. Maybe I'll set her up for the week on a different PC so that I can break this one in with the new goo.

[ross549]

It will not hurt anything to have the computer be used during the day. it will just take a couple of days for the Arctic Silver to fully align itself for maximum heat dissipation. You may see en extra degree of cooling as a result of the bake-in, but that is a minor difference.Adam

[telecomguy9]

Check out these fans and let me know what you think would be best:http://www.microcenter.com/byos/byos_singl...oduct_id=253004http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16835106606http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?sc...mp;RSKU=BA21346BTW, this is the one I have now and it just doesn't seem to be cutting it:http://ultraproducts.com/product_details.p...mp;productID=79

[Specmon]

Three things to consider when buying a heatsink and fan:Copper conducts away heat much faster than aluminum,The higher airflow gives better cooling, But watch the dB level. These fans can be noisy.While I like dealing with Newegg, I think the cheaper Thermaltake will serve you well,And all things being equal, I'd pick Thermaltake over Cooler MasterAnd if your motherboard doesn't support the PWM variable fan speed control, you get no advantage from the Cooler Master anyway. Plus there is a huge sound level difference going from 21 dB to 36 dB.Buy the $20 Thermaltake

[telecomguy9]

What I'm concerned about is getting one of these heatsink/fan units that runs at slower rpm's and finding it doesn't cool the processor any better. I'm guessing that with an all copper heatsink that one thing will make a huge difference, so a slower running fan (and thus quieter fan) will still be able to cool things down more than just a few degrees. Do you think this is the case?

[ross549]

There are literally dozens of factors that go into the design of a heatsink/fan. A fan's speed is not a good indicator of the overall cooling ability of the heatsink/fan.Adam

[telecomguy9]

Exactly my point, ross. I'm thinking that a true copper heatsink (which isn't exactly what I have now - Copper 1100 Nickel Polished Finish - what the heck is that?) with a decent fan on it will help, like any of them from the links above. Of course I'd prefer the one from Microcenter for a couple of reasons. First, it's only $20 and second, they're local so I could go pick it up at a store.

[Cluttermagnet]

It's been correctly pointed out that the effectiveness of CPU cooling depends mainly on the performance of the heatsink/cooler and the performance of the thermal grease. Mention has also been made of overall case ventillation. This is also worth looking at. If it's getting real toasty inside that case, you can also gain a little more improvement in this area. In addition to case fans, one major improvement you can make cheaply is to replace any ribbon cables with round jacketed cables. In older computers, you would find three of these, two IDE and one floppy ribbon cable. I just ordered several of the rounded cables for myself recently. Directron has these in various colors and flavors for around 2-3 bucks each, better than most other sources I've seen. I've also seen them reasonably priced at newegg for a bit more. Well worth it, I say. You'll get better front-to-back airflow through your tower. This means it's cooler inside, and that means there is more of a temperature differential between that hot CPU chip and inside the case. That causes the cooler to suck away heat faster.BTW I just use inexpensive zinc oxide heatsink compound (the white stuff) on my CPU's. I'm running slower 1.6-1.8GHz P4's. I apply it very thinly wearing a disposable latex glove. A clean sandwich bag would also work fine. I take just a tiny dab the size of a paper match head (or less), and by a lot of patting, get it applied very thinly and uniformly to both mating surfaces after a thorough cleaning, completely covering the mating areas with no gaps and no blobs. Thin is it, real thin. The silver stuff is surely better for those faster processors, however. Mine don't get near as hot as the faster ones.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[telecomguy9]

Thanks for the info, Cluttermagnet. I hadn't ever seen those rounded cables before. Those are cool. I'll look into that.Something I forgot to tell everyone is that the mobo temp is very low, around 20 degrees constantly, while the cpu temp idles at 39 or 40 degrees.So now I have a new question. If the airflow through the case were a problem would it also affect the mobo temp? If this is the case than does it appear to you that the airflow is fine since the mobo temp is so low?

[ross549]

The "motherboard temp" is going to be measuring the ambient air temperature around the motherboard. 20 degrees C is about 68F, so that is pretty good. I would say the the airflow in your case is fine.Adam

[telecomguy9]

That's what I thought, ross. Thanks.