Teacher's topless pics may cost job

[teacher]

It is very interesting to follow the debate here. The board meets tonight so we will hear if she kept her job or not. I can tell you that if she keeps her job it will be very unusual. I have taught in a couple of states and can tell you that the moral clause is a very normal thing. I doubt that she is an ineffective teacher because I bet she is full of energy and very passionate about her work. We will never know everything. Her side will be posted on the Internet and the school board will be forced to be silent on the matter. All we can do is speculate.I can also tell you that this does not look like an isolated behavior on her part. I bet she is passionate about everything she does. It is a shame that she and her partner are both without work at the same time. Then again, maybe this will give her the freedom to go elsewhere and have a clean start. Perhaps if she wants this much freedom with what is posted, then she might find the perfect job in a trendy art store.My experience has been that each setback in life has always resulted in a better situation in the end. (Excluding deaths of course). When life hands us disappointments, it is up to us to take the high road and find that better situation.

[Pete!]

......Pete, if I understood what you were saying correctly ... the school may be trying to 'use' this 'excuse' to oust a teacher that they may not really want, but can't get rid of any other way due to tenure?

Pure speculation on my part....but Yes.Normally a BOE has to decide if a teacher is suitable in his/her first few years of employment. If they continue to renew the teacher's contract, they're stuck with him/her even of the teacher becomes less suitable....Unless the teacher gives them "cause".In this case, regardless of who's "Fault" it was, this teacher may have lost credibility and become less effective. They don't want an ineefective teacher, but that's too subjective to measure (in a legal sense) ....BUT......... If there is a so called "morality clause" in the contract, they have a legitimate excuse to terminate.Teacher:I'm not saying she may have become "Inefective", because her teaching methods changed, but because of the students' likely reaction. It may not be fair but .... "Nude Pics"... and "Gay", imagine the snickering....Don't you remember being a student and how cruel kids can be when someone's "different". If you add a few judgemental parents and a BOE with members who want to get re-elected.......

[rolanaj]

I'm not saying she may have become "Inefective", because her teaching methods changed, but because of the students' likely reaction. It may not be fair but .... "Nude Pics"... and "Gay", imagine the snickering....Don't you remember being a student and how cruel kids can be when someone's "different".

I remember this well from when I went to school, I have been reminded about it a lot this last week. My daughter graduated high school this year, and one of the students in her grad glass is physically and mentally challenged. I was amazed at the way his class treated him, their loudest cheers were for him. When he got his diploma he got a standing ovation which was started by his classmates. This boy was so excited and he was so much apart of that class, it was truly amazing. When I went to school people who were different were ridiculed, teased, picked on. Wearing braces or glasses was torture even. I know that we have a long way to go in this world, but I really think the last few generations have made some big strides.I personally am more concerned with what a teacher does in the classroom, we have had to deal with a teacher who was physically and verbally abusive to children in grade two. It was almost impossible to get her out of the classroom. It took about seven years to be exact, to be fair none of the parents of the children this was happening to pressed criminal charges as far as I know.

[daihard]

Daihard, do you have any children that have gone through the high school years, particularly daughters?

I knew someone was coming up with that question. I hate answering it and losing any right to talk about education, but no, I don't have children.Having said that, if I had teenage children, I'd still try not to judge the quality of a teacher just by the fact that her partially nude pictures were posted on the Internet. I may sound overly idealistic, but I really mean it.

It seems maybe one of the primary concerns here was not made clear. It is a parent's responsibility, and the school by extension in regard to safeguarding our children while in their care and not only teach them their reading, writing and 'rithmatic but because they are in their care so many hours in a day, they need to make sure that the teachers are providing a role model not that just a good artist, a nice person, or one that doesn't smoke, drink or do drugs, although those are all commendable things, but to set a good example and show by example how to make good decisions.

I understand what you're saying. OTOH, if she were found to be an active participant of a violent online game, would she still be reprimanded? How come the subject of "sex" is always taken so seriously while other, equally sensitive topics such as violence slip away easily? Ironic that sex is actually a positive thing in life and violence never is, yet a lot of parents go crazy when their children are exposed to the former while not minding them exposed to the latter. Cluttermagnet hit the nail right on the head in that regard, IMO.

[teacher]

I think that falls under the area of behind closed doors. Since I have never played online video games that use an identity of any kind I don't know how much info is given out. I think it would be another area of what is posted in the chat that goes along with it and whether or not your user name could be tracked back to you. If a person wanted to really figure out who I am it would not take long to find my county and then the county web site and browse until my picture was located and compared with my avatar. I try to always keep in mind that the things I type here or anywhere else on the internet can be traced back to me. Yes, it is hard to get rid of a tenured teacher. Tenured teachers in my district that have been let go over the past dozen years seem to have gone back to porn kept on school computer, domestic violence, or DWIs. We are told that if we are ever arrested for anything our first call is to the superintendent - not our lawyers! The standards are almost identical to when I was in the military with a high level clearance. As far as sexual orientation, I worked with a teacher in a small school (17 teachers) in the Midwest for four years before I found out she was gay. Call me naive but I never guessed. Another teacher I thought was gay became engaged to a neat guy so I'm glad I never said a word. I have worked in another school where a teacher brought his partner to all school staff functions, even to ones with the school board and superintendent present, but never to anything where students were present. I have had students ask about the teacher but I always told them I was the wrong one to ask and he said none had ever asked him directly. So I know tolerance is there as long as it is handled in a mature manner.

[Marsden11]

My daughter had an excellent music teacher in catholic elementary school. Probably the best music teacher the school had had in years. Everyone loved her. She ran afoul of the local diocese when her picture of her and her partner ended up as front page news in the SF Chronicle the day after SF started performing same sex marriages... It was only days before the bishop in the Oakland diocese got wind of it.There was a "don't ask - don't tell" policy in place but pictures on the front page were nothing short of "telling". She lost her job...I think these things boil down to controversy... keep your private life private or you may run afoul. And the quickest way to squelch controversy is remove and dismiss the people involved and move on.

[Guest LilBambi]

I knew someone was coming up with that question. I hate answering it and losing any right to talk about education, but no, I don't have children.Having said that, if I had teenage children, I'd still try not to judge the quality of a teacher just by the fact that her partially nude pictures were posted on the Internet. I may sound overly idealistic, but I really mean it.I understand what you're saying. OTOH, if she were found to be an active participant of a violent online game, would she still be reprimanded? How come the subject of "sex" is always taken so seriously while other, equally sensitive topics such as violence slip away easily? Ironic that sex is actually a positive thing in life and violence never is, yet a lot of parents go crazy when their children are exposed to the former while not minding them exposed to the latter. Cluttermagnet hit the nail right on the head in that regard, IMO.

I did not mean to imply that you would lose any right to talk about education because you have no children. I just saw my own idealistic thoughts about life in general being carried over to the rearing and education of children and that part of my ideology had to adjust when I had children to care for and nurture. I certainly do not consider that a failing on your part at all and in general I agree with what you are saying. I still feel that way about everything else in life between adults ... but not where it comes to the stewardship of raising, nurturing and educating children. That is a great responsibility and one not to be taken lightly.But because I also feel strongly about that ideology in general, that was why I started my earlier piece with:

I have always been the type of person that felt strongly that one's sexual orientation (or any part of their private life) was their own business as long as they kept it private especially if the person is good at their job and is discreet. There are not too many things that could interfere with that, barring being an illegal alien or convicted criminal, or if what they do would put them or others in physical danger or destroy other people's or public property.

For the purpose of this topic, we were talking about semi nude pics posted on the open Internet by the partner of a public school teacher. The pros/cons of violent games, movies, etc. would be a whole other can of worms that would likely be best suited to be a topic of it's own.

[Cluttermagnet]

It's been pointed out that often school boards can fall back on 'morals clauses' in teacher contracts as an excuse to avoid the hard work of true justice and can simply dismiss those lacking in seniority or tenure. It was also pointed out that it can be very hard to remove genuinely nasty people later, even for just cause, once they have become well entrenched in the system. That one can indeed cut both ways.So how did things turn out, anyway? My guess- the 'golden rule' prevails once again ("those who have the gold make the rules"). She's history. Hang her high.

For the purpose of this topic, we were talking about semi nude pics posted on the open Internet by the partner of a public school teacher. The pros/cons of violent games, movies, etc. would be a whole other can of worms that would likely be best suited to be a topic of it's own

Hmmm, inconvenient to look at this in the cold, harsh light of day. Lynchings are not pretty. OK, the above is one way of looking at it. Another is that when the laws are capriciously and arbitrarily applied, a valid defense is to attack non- evenhanded application of the law. Sometimes, the 'kitchen sink' defense is the only real defense available. Especially when the law is being used, cynically, as an assault weapon against a defenseless minority. Judges sometimes allow this sort of exercise to go foreward, sometimes it prevails only after considerable appeals processes. "Your Honor, my client, Sheep, did not receive due process. We respectfully protest! (Wolves: "She was dinner, Your Honor. Uuurp!") Case dismissed! :icon8:BTW this unfortunate did not threaten, endanger, or attack her students. She's not even the actor here. Perhaps her roommate is. She is merely harvesting the results of her own poor judgement. And moreso the results of a vicious, mean-spirited attack by the real bad actor here, her coworker. The 'devoutly religious' mob in this Texas community is forgetting that their own religious writings have God saying (paraphrasing) "that which you do unto the least of my creatures you also do unto me". Looks to me as if it was ultimately a (probably) small minority of the students at the school who greased the skids for this teacher by handing her coworker the murder weapon. Children often act out what their parents are feeling. Edited June 28, 2006 by Cluttermagnet

[teacher]

I just googled and found that she was fired from her job according to this site: http://www.conservativethinking.com/archiv...oes-topless.phpDon't know if the site is accurate but it is the first one I came up with showing results. Her myspace page has not been updated. I still think she has been compromised as far as being ale to be an effective teacher in the future. However, I also believe that the various sides on this issue will never see eye to eye.

[Pete!]

Face it: Our opinions in this case don't count. Whether or not we think nude pictures of a potential role model are harmful, or whether we think she can remain an effective teacher, are just our opinions. Even if we think it's not fair, or not her fault...........The Austin taxpayers who are actually PAYING for the school have the right to decide what the standards are, and (within the limits of the union contract) to decide who teaches their children. They elected the Board of Education who is obligated to use all legal means to act on their behalf.

Edited June 30, 2006 by Pete!