Home Network

[volunteer]

I'm a complete newbie to networks. I need HELP and a new brain! I'm trying to set up a simple three, Win98, computer local network with TCP/IP protocol. One of the computers will, later, be setup to run proxy software to share my two-way Starband satellite ISP connection. My problem is I can't get the three computers to talk to each other.All three have an ethernet NIC bound to TCP/IP, file and printer sharing, and Client for Microsoft Networks. The NICs are connected to an 8 port Hawking Hub with straight-through cables.Each has it's own IP address; 192.168.0.1, 192.168.0.3,and 192.168.0.7. all with a submask of 255.255.255.0 . They all are on the same Workgroup, "home", too.Each NIC can ping as localhost and by it's own IP address. Additionally, the Dell PIII can ping the Laptop but that is the extent of it. The Dell PII has all three computers Icons in Network Neighborhood, the Dell PIII only shows it's own Icon, and the Toshiba doesn't show any Icons. DNS is disabled, WINS resolution is disabled, and Share-level access control is selected.I've swapped cables and ports on the Hub. I've read so many network guides and I just can't see the forest for the trees. I need to let it go for a day and start again from scratch.Computers:1. Dell PIII: Win98SE, 450 Mhz, 256 Mb Ram, NIC #2 Netgear FA311 10/100, 192.168.0.1 .2. Dell PII: Win98, 200 Mhz, 128 Mb Ram, NIC #2 Netgear FA311 10/100, 192.168.0.3 .3. Toshiba Satellite Laptop: Win98SE, 400 Mhz, 128 Mb Ram, Xircon CC Ethernet Adapter 10/100, 192.168.0.7 .Note: Both Dells have their NIC #1 set to the Satellite modem but don't have proxy software installed yet.Note: Win98SE ICS doesn't work with the Satellite modem, it causes the modem to disconnect.If anyone can look this over and tell me where I went wrong or can tell me a better way, I'll be very grateful. This has been a very humbling experience. Thanks, Ken

[Peachy]

Ken,Everything looks fine at first glance. But from your symptoms, it sounds like one of more of the machines has another protocol installed that's missing from the others. Networking in Windows 98 can be a black art sometimes.Perhaps, lets start from the beginning. Uninstall all network protocols and start from scratch. Now before installing TCP/IP, let's for the sake of testing install NetBEUI. It is a very straightforward and simple protocol and will allow you to use the Network Neighbourhood to browse for the other computers, although I find using Windows Explorer more reliable. You sometimes have to wait up 10-15 minutes before all the hosts show up.So, let's start from there, first.

[nlinecomputers]

Two words Name Resolution.A TCP/IP network has to have some form of name resolution for NetBIOS to work. You need either a DHCP server that provides WINS or you must put LMHOST files on each machine. Each machine must use unique name and have the name of every machine in the host file.Note loading the ICS will give you a DHCP server.

[Peachy]

Nathan,Good point. That might fix it right away.

[Scot]

But Windows works fine with static IP addresses. It doesn't require you to do anything. Just plug in the IPs. By default, it should work. I have run this way many times, and so have many readers of the newsletter. Like Nline, I generally recommend letting ICS or a similar product assign IP addresses automatically using DHCP. The catch is that ICS expects to find two NICs in one of your PCs.If you post back, please tell us what, if any, broadband connection is involved in your network.-- Scot

[Peachy]

One of the computers will, later, be setup to run proxy software to share my two-way Starband satellite ISP connection.

Satellite judging by this.

[Rons]

This link may also offer you some further help. http://www.practicallynetworked.com/

[volunteer]

Perhaps, lets start from the beginning. Uninstall all network protocols and start from scratch. Now before installing TCP/IP, let's for the sake of testing install NetBEUI.

Peachy, there aren't any other protocols installed, but I think your idea about installing NetBEUI is a good way to check everything. I'm rebooting three computers a lot these last three days. Nathan, I tried ICS first. Lucky for me I saved a new image of the drive before I started. It really messed with my computer.How do I generate LMHOST files and where do I put them on the computer? This may help me sooner.I'll have a DHCP server in the Proxy software. There is several free Proxy programs that I'll try first and a commercial proxy, WinProxy that has a version written for Starband.Rons, I've spent a lot of time there and everything was new to me.Thanks for the great suggestions! Ken

[nlinecomputers]

But Windows works fine with static IP addresses. It doesn't require you to do anything. Just plug in the IPs. By default, it should work. I have run this way many times, and so have many readers of the newsletter. Like Nline, I generally recommend letting ICS or a similar product assign IP addresses automatically using DHCP. The catch is that ICS expects to find two NICs in one of your PCs.If you post back, please tell us what, if any, broadband connection is involved in your network.-- Scot

It should but I've seen many networks where it never worked. The master browsers would never find other computers. And 15 min even it it DOES work is a silly length of time to get it working.

How do I generate LMHOST files and where do I put them on the computer?  This may help me sooner.

I'm running XP so the location is different. I belive that lmhost is in your C:\windows\system directory. It may be in windows. Doesn't matter. Use the find tool on the start menu and search for a file lmhosts.sam (sam is for sample) open the file in notepad. It explains how to modify the file to for your network.My lmhosts.sam file follows

# Copyright (c) 1993-1999 Microsoft Corp.## This is a sample LMHOSTS file used by the Microsoft TCP/IP for Windows.## This file contains the mappings of IP addresses to computernames# (NetBIOS) names.  Each entry should be kept on an individual line.# The IP address should be placed in the first column followed by the# corresponding computername. The address and the computername# should be separated by at least one space or tab. The "#" character# is generally used to denote the start of a comment (see the exceptions# below).## This file is compatible with Microsoft LAN Manager 2.x TCP/IP lmhosts# files and offers the following extensions:##      #PRE#      #DOM:<domain>#      #INCLUDE <filename>#      #BEGIN_ALTERNATE#      #END_ALTERNATE#      <!--POST BOX-->xnn (non-printing character support)## Following any entry in the file with the characters "#PRE" will cause# the entry to be preloaded into the name cache. By default, entries are# not preloaded, but are parsed only after dynamic name resolution fails.## Following an entry with the "#DOM:<domain>" tag will associate the# entry with the domain specified by <domain>. This affects how the# browser and logon services behave in TCP/IP environments. To preload# the host name associated with #DOM entry, it is necessary to also add a# #PRE to the line. The <domain> is always preloaded although it will not# be shown when the name cache is viewed.## Specifying "#INCLUDE <filename>" will force the RFC NetBIOS (NBT)# software to seek the specified <filename> and parse it as if it were# local. <filename> is generally a UNC-based name, allowing a# centralized lmhosts file to be maintained on a server.# It is ALWAYS necessary to provide a mapping for the IP address of the# server prior to the #INCLUDE. This mapping must use the #PRE directive.# In addtion the share "public" in the example below must be in the# LanManServer list of "NullSessionShares" in order for client machines to# be able to read the lmhosts file successfully. This key is under# \machine\system\currentcontrolset\services\lanmanserver\parameters\nullsessionshares# in the registry. Simply add "public" to the list found there.## The #BEGIN_ and #END_ALTERNATE keywords allow multiple #INCLUDE# statements to be grouped together. Any single successful include# will cause the group to succeed.## Finally, non-printing characters can be embedded in mappings by# first surrounding the NetBIOS name in quotations, then using the# <!--POST BOX-->xnn notation to specify a hex value for a non-printing character.## The following example illustrates all of these extensions:## 102.54.94.97     rhino         #PRE #DOM:networking  #net group's DC# 102.54.94.102    "appname  <!--POST BOX-->x14"                    #special app server# 102.54.94.123    popular            #PRE             #source server# 102.54.94.117    localsrv           #PRE             #needed for the include## #BEGIN_ALTERNATE# #INCLUDE \localsrv\public\lmhosts# #INCLUDE \rhino\public\lmhosts# #END_ALTERNATE## In the above example, the "appname" server contains a special# character in its name, the "popular" and "localsrv" server names are# preloaded, and the "rhino" server name is specified so it can be used# to later #INCLUDE a centrally maintained lmhosts file if the "localsrv"# system is unavailable.## Note that the whole file is parsed including comments on each lookup,# so keeping the number of comments to a minimum will improve performance.# Therefore it is not advisable to simply add lmhosts file entries onto the# end of this file.

Basically you want the same file on each machine and they should say for example:

  10.0.0.1                TOM  10.0.0.2                DICK  10.0.0.3                HARRY

Obviously you need to use your IP numbers and NETBIOS names but that is the basics. With this the system instantly knows what name is with what IP number. No "browsing service" needed. Bad thing is if you add a computer you got to change this file on every one.

[volunteer]

Nathan, thanks for the information. Lmhosts.sam is in my Windows directory. I assume thats where I add the file I generate. As soon as I verify my little network is operating I'll be good to go. The proxy software should be a snap. I'm really going to all this trouble just to get my two Linux machines on the web to download updates. Thanks again,Ken

[Peachy]

Ken et al,There may be an even simpler solution then fiddling with the LMHOST file: enable NETBIOS over TCP/IP in the TCP/IP properties.Then you can use Map Network drive in Windows Explorer to map a drive letter to the path \\192.168.0.3\share where share is the name of a folder share. You will see the machine in Network Neighbourhood eventually.

[nlinecomputers]

There may be an even simpler solution then fiddling with the LMHOST file: enable NETBIOS over TCP/IP in the TCP/IP properties.

Well he is going to have to do that for my method to work as well. Windows doesn't work with TCP/IP it works with NetBIOS. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

[Scot]

Nline, Peachy, Ken, all this fiddling around with LMHOSTS is totally unnecessary. The only way you would have this problem is if there's something else wrong with the network. If this were Windows Me, which definitely has trouble with network browsing, I might see it. But that problem is a lot less frequent with Win98 and Win98SE. In fact, I think it more likely there's something funky going on in HOSTS or with the network stack than with LMHOSTS. This is simply not required for simple peer networking. Would it help? Oh, sure. But I don't think that's his problem. Long before I ever used a proxy server with DHCP, I was peer networking with static IP addresses -- for years, using nothing but TCP/IP and the MS NW client. Scads of other people have had this experience. Many, many people are still doing it.Ken, think about getting XP on the box that connects to StarBand. You're much better off with XP and ICS on a StarBand network than any other sharing method. I have StarBand and I've tried all the solutions. That is the best way to go -- until the next version of StarBand, which is finally going to be hardware routable.Finally, Peachy's original comment is the better extra network measure to take. There are Windows performance issues with LMHOSTS (more so, though, with larger networks). I would advise installing NetBEUI or IPX/SPX (yes, with NetBIOS), both for the network stability they provide and for the added security that offer in a broadband environment. If you hibernate your notebook and expect it to resume to a working network connection, IPX/SPX is a better choice.I hope this is some help to you, Ken.-- Scot

[Peachy]

I would agree that IPX/SPX is a better choice; that's what I use with NetBIOS on top. The only reason I brought up NetBIOS over TCP/IP is that if you have Linux boxes and are using Samba, you need to at least do that for the Windows machines to see the Samba shares. If you only want the Linux boxes to see each other then you wouldn't need that option.

[volunteer]

Ken, think about getting XP on the box that connects to StarBand. You're much better off with XP and ICS on a StarBand network than any other sharing method. I have StarBand and I've tried all the solutions. That is the best way to go -- until the next version of StarBand, which is finally going to be hardware routable.

I am going to go Windows XP and ICS since it works well with Starband. This seems the best solution given my situation.Thanks to everyone for all the help. Now, I have to learn XP. Ken

[Scot]

Ken and I have passed some PMs about XP, and he's getting the XP Pro upgrade version for only $140 (which is a great deal). He's planning to install it as a clean install (not sure to which PC, but would advise that it's not the notebook PC). Clean install of the Upgrade version is possible so long as you have a retail copy (not an OEM PC copy, usually) of any previous version of Windows back to the original Windows 98.Once XP's going, he can install a second NIC in the XP machine, and connect that to StarBand, add ICS, and my bet is that the networking problems will go away. Ken, my advice is not to use a Netgear FA311 NIC as your second NIC in the XP PC. (Don't use USB whatever you do, get a second NIC.) Get a different NIC, from Linksys or 3Com or someone else. It's just much easier to keep track of things when the hardware doesn't have the exact same name.With all the above going properly, you would want to disable the static IP addresses in Network Properties and allow TCP/IP to accept IP addresses automatically.Despite my arguments to the contrary, I'm nevertheless interested in anything else you learn about your static IP address network. If LMHOSTS helps, I want to know. Technically, Nathan makes good points. I just didn't want you to spend a lot of time working on something that's sort of a dead end given your ultimate goal -- which definitely requires DHCP to work properly.Hope all this makes sense!-- Scot

[siebkens]

I've had computers networked & used ICS using Win98, ME & now a mix including XP Pro on my main machine. My current setup is a lot like yours. Learned lots - spent lots of time at MS Knowledge Base & practicallynetworked.com. Found lots of "known" issues. Had to reset up network every time I made any computer moves or disconnections, even when I could see no reason why my network would be affected!! But having my computers networked is the only way to go for the way my family & I use our computers.Good Luck!!