Microsoft to offer support for Suse Linux

[arcturus]

Announcement forthcoming shortly on a Microsoft - Novell alliance.finance.yahoo.com will link articles, just type in msft into the 'get quotes' box

[arcturus]

Here's an article:http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/02/technology...sion=2006110216

[Bruno]

I have been looking at a part of the CEO webcast yesterday . . . could not believe what I was hearing. The way they were presenting it, it all made sense . . . but can you remember a MS "partner" that came out well ??A few years ago when SuSE was bought by Novel, I had this uneasy feeling that something was not right . . . . . and now today I can not help to have that same feeling again. Is it time to "rm -rf /mnt/suse" ? Brunohttp://www.channelregister.co.uk/2006/11/0...ell_suse_linux/http://www.geekzone.co.nz/juha/1662http://www.computerworld.com/action/articl...;intsrc=hm_listhttp://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/003079.htmlhttp://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2050777,00.asphttp://www.businessweek.com/technology/con...week+exclusiveshttp://seattle.bizjournals.com/seattle/sto...ml?surround=lfnhttp://today.reuters.com/news/articleinves...6&type=qcna

[greengeek]

As usual I'll wait and see what happens while I go on my merry way using SuSE (and others).Edited because I stuffed up the link, you'll find it in the Windows' forum.

Edited November 3, 2006 by greengeek

[Peachy]

Well, Apple seemed to survive its Faustian bargain with Microsoft. I see a lot of upside to this from my perspective at work. I've pretty much moved our Linux offering from Red Hat/Fedora to SUSE this past summer. I've even convinced a die-hard SUSE hater at work to actually tell me yesterday that he really does like SUSE now. One interpretation I've read so far this morning suggests that this is Microsoft's way of beating Red Hat in the server market. The fact that Microsoft and Novell will create a joint research facility to work on virtualisation and Active Directory/eDirectory integration is rather good news. This will give me more of a reason to play around with Novell SUSE Linux Enterprise Server.So, I'm still going to be using SUSE as my main distro.

[ebrke]

I'm not sure this is good for Novell, but they may be doing this to buy time and avoid being crushed by the Oracle/rebranded-Red Hat juggernaut. That being said, I certainly agree with Bruno that MS partners don't usually come out of the other side of the partnership. Novell has hung on by the skin of their teeth for quite some time, so I suppose there's a chance they know what they're doing. I just hope they remember the old adage about using a long spoon when you sup with the devil.Edit: I think the other shoe just dropped, see link.MS Offers Indemnification Talks To Others

Edited November 3, 2006 by ebrke

[Urmas]

Can't say I'm surprised... and, well, "any assurance that Microsoft won't sue for patent infringement"... combine this with the recent multimedia format [WinMedia] deals with many content providers, deal with RealPlayer/MS/Suse...

[teacher]

The release The other thread on this. It looiks like they started it first but it is sure to be a more lively discussion here.

[b2cm]

Red Hat's future look very bleak indeed.

[Guest LilBambi]

Looks like we may have another SCO vs Linux situation in the making, but this time with a company with virtually limitless funds.However, it bodes well for totally open source users of Linux. They will not have the same issues folks who need commercial software will have.Sad to see that SuSE went this route. Sure they will survive now, but what of SuSE when folks start seeing issues with all kinds of DRM in SuSE ... if it comes to that.I can see that many of us will be re evaluating, but not the way Microsoft's Ballmer thinks. I will be keeping an eye on this for sure. I may well be moving away from any corporate 'friendly' Linux entirely it seems in due course.

[Guest LilBambi]

Here's an interesting article on it from CNET (different view than the other article posted in the other thread, btw):

Red Hat couches Microsoft-Novell pact as a Linux winAs the software maker endures a tough week, open-source experts question whether the deal would violate the GPL.By Richard Thurston and Graeme WeardenSpecial to CNET News.comPublished: November 3, 2006, 8:00 AM PST http://news.com.com/Red+Hat+couches+Micros..._3-6132323.htmlRed Hat moved quickly on Friday to pour cold water on fellow Linux software maker Novell's partnership with Microsoft.It published a response on its Web site within hours of the agreement between Microsoft and Novell, proclaiming that the deal was a victory for Linux rather than just Novell. Red Hat also distanced itself from the possibility that it might strike a similar deal with Microsoft.

The entire article is interesting. Eben Moglen, Bruce Perens, and Groklaw are quoted in the article as well.Eben Moglen:

"If you make an agreement which requires you to pay a royalty to anyone for the right to distribute GPL software, you may not distribute it under the GPL," Moglen said. Whether the partnership precludes Novell from distributing Linux depends on the precise terms of its agreement with Microsoft, he said.

Bruce Perens:

"One of the questions yet to be settled is whether Novell will violate the GPL, the license of the Linux kernel and other open-source software, by offering patent protection that is exclusive to Novell customers," Perens wrote in a blog posting.

Groklaw:

"Excuse me while I go throw up," wrote Groklaw's founder, Pamela Jones. "I gather Microsoft no longer thinks Linux is a cancer or communism. Now it just wants a patent royalty from it. Wasn't that kinda SCO's dream at first?"

And I only just now found this article when looking for the link for the other CNET article in the other thread!

[Bruno]

It looiks like they started it first but it is sure to be a more lively discussion here.

I hate to contradict you . . but actually Arcturus started the thread here in ATL about 5 hours earlier :DIn ATL: Yesterday, 05:06 PMIn ATW: Yesterday, 09:54 PMB) Bruno

[havnblast]

A few years ago when SuSE was bought by Novel, I had this uneasy feeling that something was not right . . . . . and now today I can not help to have that same feeling again. Is it time to "rm -rf /mnt/suse" ?

I don't know what the deal is but I am seeing a lot more complaints about suse and people removing it. That distro never did sit well with me.

[Guest LilBambi]

removed ;)too silly of me!

Edited November 4, 2006 by LilBambi

[Bruno]

. . Fran . . . . sorry, it was Julia that I quoted and reacted to . . . . ( I guess it must be early morning over at your side of the ocean ) Bruno

[teacher]

. . Fran . . . . sorry, it was Julia that I quoted and reacted to . . . . ( I guess it must be early morning over at your side of the ocean ) Bruno

You are absolutely right Bruno. Go ahead and blame it on a bad case of Mac but I knew it was the other way around and got all turned around in my thinking. Perhaps it was a wee bit too early in the morning here when I posted. I see this is going to be a lively conversation around here. Havnblast, I must agree with you. I loved Suse 9.3 but since then have been less than impressed. Then again, I skipped the latest one after a quick trial run on the old tablet.

[greengeek]

My fault, I dumped it in Windows before I looked in here!

[ebrke]

Here's the party line from Ron Hovsepian that I found in my email:

Today, Microsoft and Novell announced an historic new initiative. Important primarily because it means a lot to the communities we serve. Most notably, our customers. (See full press release).Let me begin by quickly outlining what we just announced. Microsoft and Novell, starting today, have agreed to build and market solutions so that Novell's technology works on Microsoft and vice versa. Specifically, customers will now be able to run virtualized SUSE Linux Enterprise on Windows or Windows on SUSE Linux Enterprise. This landmark agreement also calls for both Microsoft and Novell to provide patent coverage to each others' customers for our respective products. Why is that important? It's important because you shouldn't have to spend a lot of time worrying about legal matters around which operating system to choose. You also shouldn't have to worry about barriers such as intellectual property agreements, who owns which patent portfolio, and indemnification. None of those issues move your business forward. Now many of those barriers have been removed.I am also proud that earlier today Novell and Microsoft demonstrated, by our words and actions, that we can work together for the mutual benefit of our customers. Steve Ballmer, Microsoft's CEO, was very passionate and genuine in his support for this agreement. He spoke about how it will help our customers leverage both the Microsoft Windows platform as well as our SUSE Linux Enterprise platform. He mentioned how it will give customers like you choice and flexibility in building their technology environment. Choice and flexibility, something our customers often complain are in short supply. We're determined to change that.I'd like to build on what Steve said, and today I had the opportunity to make some of these points in person to the assembled press, analysts and industry experts. This agreement between us and Microsoft is a key cornerstone to our overall Novell promise to deliver the open enterprise to you, our customers. One where we can leverage a mixed environment- with open source and open standards based software- on your behalf. It's an agreement that will accelerate Novell's stated goal of helping you reduce cost, manage complexity and mitigate risk.I titled this a “landmark†announcement, and I truly believe it is. Transformational in its scope and important to us and our customers on a number of levels. You may wonder how this changes our relationship with Microsoft. It's no secret we've competed with them in the past. And we still will. However, it's also important for us all to remind ourselves that all organizations, particularly in our industry, need to adapt and change. Further, for whatever differences we've had with Microsoft over the years, we actually share a number of the same values. A strong belief in building customer solutions, and an unwavering belief in the power of technology and innovation. And now, with this announcement, the ability for you to deploy the applications you want on the operating system of your choice for a total solution. All in a way that best fits your business needs.This is the beginning of a new and exciting chapter for Novell. We know you want technology that features interoperability, choice, flexibility, and sustainability. We know you like to see your vendors working together on YOUR behalf. In fact, that is what this Microsoft/Novell agreement is all about. Working together to do a better job for you.I'm truly excited about this transformational announcement. The payoff will be better results where it counts most. On helping you grow and innovate, and in turn delivering on your promise to the communities you serve.Best regards,Ron HovsepianCEO, Novell

Well, I'm glad he's truly excited. Don't think that quite sums up a lot of the feeling outside of his office.

[Peachy]

Stephen J. Nicholls-Vaughn has an analysis similar to mine:

I used to think that Microsoft wouldn't dare use its patents against the Linux companies. My logic was that if Microsoft started really throwing its patent weight around, IBM or Novell could retaliate in kind. Thus, if any one company tried to smash Linux with an overly aggressive patent enforcement, they would be blasted by the pro-Linux companies with large patent portfolios. It was the old geopolitical idea of MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) . brought into the PC age.Well, now Novell and Microsoft have a non-aggression treaty. Yes, the Novell/Microsoft deal also frees individual, non-profit open-source developers, and programmers who work on openSUSE, from any Microsoft patent danger. But what about programmers who work on, say, Red Hat Linux?I hope I'm wrong. I hope that in the next few weeks, I'm not writing about Microsoft suing Red Hat. That Linux company has had more than enough trouble recently with Oracle. Or, maybe it won't be Red Hat. Maybe Ubuntu would be the target.

[Peachy]

After reading the various commentaries all over the Internet today I'm starting to formulate a number of thoughts beyond the "Oh no, Novell sold out!" and "Boycott SUSE!"Let's put this into perspective. I keep reading the press releases and announcements and the thing that stands out for me is not the patents and licensing protection afforded SUSE by Microsoft. Nor is it the ambiguity this throws into Novell's relationship to the GPL.No. It boils down to one word: VirtualizationThe whole collaboration on improving virtualization and making Active Directory and eDirectory work seamlessly together is an Enterprise killer app. This is where the Enterprise IT area is heading towards. It's what we talk about at work. This is about improving Xen. This is about improving Viridian. One source I've read says that Microsoft and Novell have been in negotiations for the past six months on this. The Oracle/Red Hat announcement this week was not coincidental. Microsoft/Novell had to play their cards now. Let the chips fall where they may!

[b2cm]

The whole collaboration on improving virtualization and making Active Directory and eDirectory work seamlessly together is an Enterprise killer app. This is where the Enterprise IT area is heading towards. It's what we talk about at work. This is about improving Xen. This is about improving Viridian.

The technology developed out of the partnership plus plain economics for enterprise data centers will certainly give Microsoft-Novell the mixed enterprise server market.

[Marsden11]

And the Enterprise will have choice...

[b2cm]

... not when shrinking business kills Red Hat and other enterprise server distributions and microsoft-novell becomes a monopoly ...

[daihard]

... not when shrinking business kills Red Hat and other enterprise server distributions and microsoft-novell becomes a monopoly ...

Personally as a "hacker," all I want is the Linux OS that I can keep looking at and tinkering with. Business-wise, I was hoping that the big corporate players such as Red Hat and Novell would collaborate rather than compete in order to establish a more solid ground on the server/desktop market. Novell chose the wrong partner.

[ebrke]

Personally as a "hacker," all I want is the Linux OS that I can keep looking at and tinkering with. Business-wise, I was hoping that the big corporate players such as Red Hat and Novell would collaborate rather than compete in order to establish a more solid ground on the server/desktop market. Novell chose the wrong partner.

Hear, hear!

[Guest LilBambi]

Personally as a "hacker," all I want is the Linux OS that I can keep looking at and tinkering with. Business-wise, I was hoping that the big corporate players such as Red Hat and Novell would collaborate rather than compete in order to establish a more solid ground on the server/desktop market. Novell chose the wrong partner.

I hear ya diahard. I feel the same way.

[daihard]

Hear, hear!

I asked about this on a Japanese SNS site. Surprisingly, most if not all replies were fairly positive about the deal - saying things like "corporations are there to make money," "give Microsoft a break," etc. I'm glad I don't live in Japan anymore!

[rubytuesday]

"I can not help to have that same feeling again. Is it time to "rm -rf /mnt/suse" ? "Hmmm. Same for this bunny, only she's still trying to figure things out, so...um, is this the cleanest way to do it, or can I just select the SuSE partition when I've got the Ubuntu installer underway?Sorry, but still muddling along! cheers, ruby

[Bruno]

"I can not help to have that same feeling again. Is it time to "rm -rf /mnt/suse" ? "Hmmm. Same for this bunny, only she's still trying to figure things out, so...um, is this the cleanest way to do it, or can I just select the SuSE partition when I've got the Ubuntu installer underway?Sorry, but still muddling along! cheers, ruby

Hi Ruby . . . . . . nope the "rm -rf /mnt/suse" was just a symbolic way of saying "remove suse from my computer" . . . If you really want to replace SuSE with Ubuntu you can indeed just tell the Ubuntu installer to use the partition(s) where SuSE is installed . . and it will format those partitions before starting the install :DNote: If you like KDE ( like in SuSE ) you are better off installing Kubuntu, because that will give you the KDE desktop you are accustomed to. Bruno

[striker]

Suse eh ... it could very well happen in extremely near future my suse partitions get overwritten by some other distros; Pure accidently of course. Just thinking about which one...