Paracelsus

[littlebone]

Does anyone know where Paracelsus is? I haven't seen a post from him in over a month.

[Pete!]

Does anyone know where Paracelsus is? I haven't seen a post from him in over a month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He appears to be alive and still capable of operating a mouse & tapping a keyboard. He's been posting at the FreedomList forum recently.

[Cluttermagnet]

Does anyone know where Paracelsus is? I haven't seen a post from him in over a month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because of sharp limits placed on open debate in this Forum recently (Nov 04 and later), questions like this can't really be discussed meaningfully. The Cooler has grown moribund, IMO. Hang around here for good technical discussions if that meets all your needs. I have gotten some great info here in the past. There are greener pastures if spirited exchanges are more to your liking, however.

[epp_b]

How do you pronounce that, anyway?"PA-ru-SEEL-sus"?

[Scot]

Clutter, if the place is "moribund," why hang around? We really could do without a lot of negativity around here. If you don't like it, leave. If you want to make it better, we could use constructive criticism and support. And we'd like your help.Paracelsus removed himself in a huff over things I took issue with that he'd posted that were critical of our moderators. That's the bottom line. He was not asked to leave. He was asked to stop criticizing the moderators openly in an open forum. He chose to leave.Like it or not, a moderator's job is tough. Especially when the forum rules describe this place as a "family forums." The rules are mine, not anyone else's. And it's me who should be taken to task, not moderators who are just trying to do their good work the best way they can.There are plenty of other places to go where you can crack off-color jokes and flame each other until you're crispy. This ain't one of them. Some people wanted to change that. Including Paracelsus. He purposely goaded what he saw as "censorship" in an attempt to break the morale of moderators -- and almost succeeded. I think there were some mistakes on both sides of that fence. But it's in the past. I'm sorry he left. I had counted him as a friend. But he did. And he bad mouthed us on the way out. I think whatever got to him, he stayed too long. Nothing is that important about computing, IMO, that you need to get that upset about it and go nuts. I measure success here by how many people are enjoying the place -- without strife and frustration. Membership continues to grow. People are still helping each other.We never set out to be the coolest place on the Internet. Helping people, and providing a comfortable, non-threatening, encouraging place to congregate online were the only goals of SNF from the start.I hope those of you who happen to read this will take it for what is ... just the honest truth from one guy who happens to have a newsletter, and so could pretty easily start a forums.Hey, this is supposed to be fun. And I mean to keep it that way. -- Scot

[greengeek]

Hey, I'm still here, just been busy playing with trains, also having a long break from other peoples' computer problems.

[Cluttermagnet]

Hi, Scot-Let's remain friends. I think there's some basis for that. My previous comments related mostly to the Water Cooler, not the entire Forums. "Paradise Lost" is the title of a former bestseller that perhaps best captures my overall experience in the Cooler in just a few words. I'm a relatively new computer geek ('96) and your venue was actually my first 'forum' experience. Earlier, I had greatly enjoyed email 'newsgroups'. I had tons of fun with them and met fascinating folks who shared my interests. Those were heady times. I made some good friends along the way.The ambience of the new Scot's Forums was great, and I gravitated immediately to the Cooler. It was lively and it was 'non-topical', computer wise. I liked that. Although I participated in a couple of your other forums, the Cooler became my sort of home-away-from-home for a time. We did have the occasional bit of controversy. There were perhaps a couple of members who seemed to enjoy 'stirring the pot'. I trust I was not one of those, but I'll leave that for you to judge. Forums occupy what for me is a great middle ground- a little more immediate than email, much less 'live' than chats, but also a group activity. One has time enough to carefully consider their words, so the quality of these threads can in theory be much greater. And it often is.This venue came unglued for me around the time of the Nov 2004 US election. In particular, the Politics sub-forum became very divisive with a lot of flaming over the election. I believe that yanking it as an 'experiment gone wrong' was even more damaging than the heat it fostered, however. Doing so created in my mind, and I believe in others, a sense of there having been winners and losers, not only in the election, but here in the Forums. Quoting my own comment at that time "...I thought we were bigger than this." In particular, I was taken by surprise as to how much bias I detected in the mods as they waded into the debate near the end, in addition to the breadth and depth of support by other members for a brand of politics entirely alien to my own personal value system. Those of us who found ourselves on the losing side suddenly realized we were both outnumbered and outgunned in the Forums. If it helps, please think of me as being a member of a 'loyal opposition', as the Brits say. Emphasis on loyal. Please at least read the remaining paragraphs below before deciding to yank my comments...There are big problems for the (US) nation and the world at large that eclipse anything we have seen to date in here, but we should reasonably expect that the Forums would to some degree mirror the greater 'out there'. And so it was, until debate was unceremoniously cut off. And it left some hard feelings in all quarters. Further, the 'invisible' behavioral line that one should not cross in this venue became even more murky than it had been in the past. Sort of like some folks' definition of pornography: "I can't define it precisely, but I know it when I see it". I'm weighing my words with great care right now. I feel constrained and simply can't fully speak my mind and my heart. Let me suggest that part of what you perceive as my "negativity" may be, to some degree, your own sensitivities, having gotten burned yourself by the controversy. I'm not planning to quit this forum, and I will try to contribute where I can. I do stand by my earlier statement, though- the Cooler is just not as fun and stimulating as I once found it. I'll not attempt to stir controversy either, though you may perhaps choose to see me as doing that when I'm not trying to.

(Temmu:)y'all must be on a long weekend, nobody's posting...(iajoe:)This place is very strict. 1 must be careful of what he posts. That's 1 thing I don't like about this forum.   

Joe is a man of few words, but he has summarized all that I said above. The thing is, you can tell where I'm coming from by reading in between my lines. To date, I still can't tell whether Joe is sincere or trolling. :lol:It's your forum, Scot. I've learned a lot here, had some good times too. I would also like to see that continue. I do respectfully suggest that you to try to:* Allow at least a little debate from time to time, especially in the Cooler* Keep this thread in the Cooler, where it truly belongs* Not delete anything in this thread, including another rather snippy comment earlier* Not close the thread unless it happens to get nasty again* Direct everyone's attention to how to seek fairness, even conciliation, within your rules frameworkI'd like to see the Forums a smashing success! Edited June 10, 2005 by Cluttermagnet

[Grasshopper]

Well-said CM.Ya know, I did a little searching and found that it was me that started the political forum thread.AAAHHH!!!![runs and hides][peeks back in]I will say, though, that while I agree with CM, it is Scot's forum. It ain't no democracy...it's an oligarchy. [hides again]

[epp_b]

*sniff*...I'll always miss that way he brought a warm-and-fuzzy sort of insanity to the Water Cooler :'(

[Scot]

Clutter,Sorry if my words seemed sharp, or pointed at you specifically. I didn't mean them to be so much. Although I have to admit that your earlier post here seemed a little backhanded.The thing is, we are wide open at SNF to healthy debate, disagreement, even heated disagreement. No one has said you have to walk on tip toes and pretend you're a monk. We're just asking that you do not attack or belittle each other. And that you use the kind of language you would use if you were speaking face to face in "mixed" company, and by that I mean people of all ages, genders, and religions. That includes how you speak to or speak of moderators. In fact, that probably especially includes the people who help make this place go.It's just so easy to be rude online. What's really hard is to be civil. I'm asking a little more of SFNL readers and SNF members, yes. But I don't think I'm asking that much.You know, it would be so-ooo much easier for members and moderators if I just said, go ahead everyone, be rude or even mean-spirited to each other. But this isn't about being easy. The fact that we're trying for something better than that shouldn't be a signal that there's something a little, eh, backward about this place. There are many people who would be turned off by that kind of environment. From the start, the earliest members -- including Paracelsus, by the way -- said that they wanted this to be a more friendly kind of forums.It takes courage to be different. I'm asking everyone to be understanding. I think we did have some growing pains. I've admitted that there may have been a few occasions when we overreacted. This doesn't surprise me. It was bound to happen sooner or later. I think we may have made the right adjustments to rectify that.Let's everyone just give it a shot ... see if we can make this work out.-- Scot

[Jeber]

Let me just add:1) no one during that debacle was asked or forced to leave, including Paracelsus. Anyone that chose to use that as a reason to depart did so of their own free will. I would have hoped our members would understand that we try things that sometimes work and other times don't. If we feel they are doing more harm than good to the overall forum, we admit our mistake and recify it. I'm pleased with all those who may not have agreed with our decision but stayed with us anyway.2) if you truly feel that

the Cooler is just not as fun and stimulating as I once found it

then, in the immortal words of Capt. Piccard, make it so. You all have my apologies for not doing more to keep the place witty and funky, but we have plenty of Highlanders, yourself included, Cluttermagnet, who have in the past posted some very clever and entertaining things. Please, continue to do so. Ever since the WC sort of became my baby, I've felt guilty that I haven't been doing more to keep it dynamic. So bail me out here...go a little nuts and have some fun. Let's see if we can't get it back to being the place it used to be.Now, back to our regular programming...sans commercials.

[longgone]

:'( ..........Tosses Jebs a bucket ... 5gl. capacity ...... bail, bail faster...

[greengeek]

We have a couple of 5 litre buckets on our fishing boat. :'( Anyone want to talk about trains?

[havnblast]

then, in the immortal words of Capt. Piccard, make it so.  You all have my apologies for not doing more to keep the place witty and funky, but we have plenty of Highlanders, yourself included, Cluttermagnet, who have in the past posted some very clever and entertaining things.  Please, continue to do so.  Ever since the WC sort of became my baby, I've felt guilty that I haven't been doing more to keep it dynamic.  So bail me out here...go a little nuts and have some fun.  Let's see if we can't get it back to being the place it used to be.

I believe this will take time as we have lost a lot of regular members that use to be here and the word has spread to other forums about how things have ran here before. For some reason I got pms from members stating this and that about the forum and I passed most of the information up the line. The regular posters have dropped over time and things have gotten a little stale.Now the great thing about the internet is that it is always changing and people come and go to sites. New people will discover the place and they will bring freshness to the place. I've seen a couple new people lately really posting their hearts out and working it. I do expect a drop in activity as the North American Continent is into the summer weather now. This great phenomenon happens every year and it effects a lot of web sites. The one thing I see and love about this place is how dedicated the regulars are to helping people with never asking for a thing. Take for example, we get first hand information on firefox and other things dealing with browsers in the Browser & Email Central forum. I personally have discovered and learned a lot about extensions and without Steeler giving out the information freely I probably never would of tried em. I'm starting to turn into a extension junkie now. It's just not Steeler, it's everyone in there that helps. Corrine always posts something that is worth knowing about.The ATL, Bruno has taken a bunch of linux explorers and turned some of them into really great helpers. It's great to see new people come into the ATL and hear months later down the road that they are still using linux in one form or another.We got James in the Windows area helping people all the time and he helps out with other sites so it's not like this is his only home. His first review of a software for backing up your hard drive was posted here and it was great. I really hope he does more cause he does a great job with it.Peachy I think is just a universal know it all and comes up with some really great things like the BBC broadcasting the top songs and how to get around the ipod broadcast. Peachy seems to be blessed in all areas of computer knowledge and is more than willing to help.We got Jeber, who can't love a guy like Jeber. He goes out of his way to bring sunshine and happiness upon your computer. I can't count all the times the guy had me buckled over laughing as the tears rolled down my cheeks. He also helps people out all the time too.I could go on with each member, but it would be repeating and too much server space would be used up. If people would just hang in there they would see everything that I have seen. Seeing how far people have gone because of the team and members is priceless. People will pickup on this atmosphere and will stick it out. The trouble makers will find it dull and move on and we will continue to grow and experience the greatness of things to come to us together.Oh btw, before you go thinkin boy is he sucking up, I'm nnt. The above is my personal experience and observation, yours will/may vary :'( Edited June 14, 2005 by havnblast

[Peachy]

Aww, shucks! :'(

[longgone]

For Joy .....huff n puff n huf n puff ... choo choo choo .. ... wood fired .. coal fired .. diesel electric ... cab forward .. cab behind ... and in the end from a childhood song .. "she'll be comin' 'round the mountain when she comes"

[greengeek]

Well said Kelly!Thank you Dale but not quite what I had in mind though.

[b2cm]

I miss them all.

[b2cm]

trains? former members?

Members. Paracelsus, NRD, Ibe, etc.

[Cluttermagnet]

Siiiighhhhh! Well, I originally wrote the following on June 15th.Sat on it for a good while, had my doubts. With minimal further editing, here 'tis...b2cm, I miss 'em all, too.Wow! This thread now reminds me of a particularly good break in billiards. So many angles, so many possibilities. Several easy shots- side pocket over there, a couple of corner shots, and some interesting bank shot possibilities. The thing is, I'm not really all that good at the game...Quite a variety of comments. It's surprising at times, the honesty. Wistful regrets over the past in some, conciliation and positivism as well. In others, circling the wagons, terse, thinly veiled sarcasm, or perhaps just vague comments in 'insider code' in others. It strikes me that some of the hostility surrounding the Nov '04 political debate may still linger on. I think I'm still feeling it in this thread. I believe that that one regrettable situation led to some other unpleasantries seen later. Many hurt feelings. So my 'billiard table' also seems a bit like a mine field to me right now. When you have too many hyperalert folks toting shotguns in a bird hunting party, and they don't know how to work together as a team, sometimes it's best to just sit it out, as there's some risk that more than just game birds might get shot at. I used to get blindsided in here when topics were just something like DCMA/fair use or a relatively simple technical hardware topic. You never really knew where it was going to come from next. Then the '04 election completely blew the lid off of common decency, all across the country. Unfortunately, this venue was no exception. We have been soooooo exploited (and divided). It's really too bad. I'd hoped we were bigger than that.After I post one of my lengthy writings, I sometimes lay low for a while, finding it hard to come back to see what effect my comments may have had. This time (6-15-05) was no exception. I got a little bit of everything, it seems. Scot, you are so right- it is far more classy to disagree but to do it with style and in a mutually respectful way. That's indeed much more of a challenge. Far easier to just toss off cute one-liners. We have a generation with unprecedented computing power and word processing and world wide connectivity at their fingertips, but they have apparently been affected by a lifetime of passive television viewing and video games. They never bothered to learn how to communicate well. A while back (Nov '04), I got stepped on in here. My writings likely would indirectly reflect that for a time. Which is why I hesitate to start anew...Scot and Jeber's posts were quite lucid and contained some surprising statements. At least I was surprised. Perhaps I will cautiously test what you two guys wrote. I thought that controversy was greatly frowned on around here. Remember the very last scene in the movie "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"? Jack Nicholson's character dead, the old indian man gone, the rest of them 'back on the reservation' and emphatically back on their meds. Crisp white nursing uniforms and sickening Muzak droning on in the background. Nurse Ratchett's serene, totally insane smile... I thought that Scot's had gone somewhat in that direction, a sort of 'spiritual wounding'. I'd definitely like to be proven wrong about that. But it feels like if I stayed in here long enough I might end up suffering the 'death of a thousand cuts'. It still feels to me like a bit of backbiting is going on. Perhaps in time it could start to feel safe again- to air things that particularly trouble my heart or that bring me great joy. Yes, I have plenty of positives that light up my life today, as well.

Edited June 23, 2005 by Cluttermagnet

[Guest Paracelsus]

I had fully intended not to post in these Forums again and to just fade away quietly. However... I was made aware of this thread, and after quite a bit of self debate, decided I couldn't let things stand as they are.But most of what is being said here now has nothing to do with me and I would appreciate the continuing discussion being taken elsewhere.I never attacked anyone.I never shredded anyone.And as opposed to my being mentioned by name in this thread by two Admins...I never ONCE implicated any Moderator or Admin by name in any of my "Public" dissents against Overactive; Anonymous; Pre-Emptive Moderation.In fact...I only made two... Count 'em, TWO... public posts on the issue.HERE and HEREIf you don't believe that... Run a search... You won't find any others.And in spite of what was said about me earlier in this thread...

Including Paracelsus. He purposely goaded what he saw as "censorship" in an attempt to break the morale of moderators

I did not goad anyone. I made perhaps two risqué posts in the Water Cooler. Was I "Testing the Waters"?? Certainly. Where's the crime in that?The only people who may have felt goaded, where the ones who were engaging in "Policing"... Actively searching for things they felt may cause problems. And that was one of the main issues.My actions were taken on behalf of quite a few members who were complaining about the same things. As I was only nominally a MVP... Not a Mod or an Admin... merely a MVP... I saw no harm in presenting the points in the "Moderator Feedback" area. That's What it's There For. Had I held a more official position... I would have felt an onus to keep my commentary behind the scenes.As concerns:

And he bad mouthed us on the way out.

Where was that?I posted concerning these events at one Forum: Freedom ListAnd that was only in response to an inquiry. Freedom List isn't exactly setting any activity records for Internet BBs. And It's highly doubtful that more than a handful or two of members there ever read that thread. I stated my mind there, and I don't consider any of what I said, "Bad Mouthing". But anyone here is perfectly free to read and decide for themselves.So this impression that I went 'round to Lockergnome and places like that, trashing and bad mouthing SNLF, is just too laughable for words.I'm not even registered at Lockergnome! If there is a Paracelsus there... It ain't me.I simply can not abide "Revisionist History"...And can not allow myself, a post facto, to be portrayed as a person who deliberately attempted to rip the Heart & Soul away from SNLF.The official stance was made clear to me. I disagreed and walked away. (And it wasn't in "a huff" either) That was all.

[b2cm]

[Scot]

Hey, Paracelsus. Welcome back.Clutter, I just want to say that I loved your post from earlier today. Well written, and thoughtful, as usual. You have style. For sure. I hope you hang in there and we get to benefit of it.I want to say something about the Nov '04 thing, and our attempt to expand into that -- an idea I was all for trying. I didn't post during that period, and I also purposely didn't spend a lot of time reading the posts. I don't know what everyone's politcal convictions are as a result. I have very strong political views. In fact, I'm one of those people who can walk into a room full of political discourse who manages to piss off *everyone* in the room. Both sides of the, ah, aisle, as it were. My views do not break along party lines. My views embrace parts of both sides of the two main parties in the U.S. I had (and have) very, very strong opinions about the presidential election in the U.S. In a word, conviction.I'm not going to tell you what my convictions are.My point is: There are so many smart, insightful, and large minded people in these forums that, of course, we have a wide range of opinion. But there are no wrong opinions on subjects like this. Everyone has the right to their own. I guess that I think the only small-minded attitude is the one that doesn't keep the door open a bit to the other guy's point of view. When the line crosses over from conviction to unthinking fanaticism, that's when I have a very hard time personally.I don't know really where I'm going with this. I thought your comment about the carry over from the political stuff was on the mark. We tried something we hoped would be fun, and it didn't really work the way we'd hoped. Instead of being something new and different, and hopefully exciting to talk about, it polarized us.It was a lesson for several of us about just how powerful conviction can really be. It's a good thing, but something that you need to be respectful of.I think this place remains strong enough to carry through. Havnblast's comments were right on the mark. There are already new people. I miss the people who have chosen to leave too. But sometimes that has to happen. It's really no different than anything else about life. Nothing is permanent; everything is in an perpetual state of change.I can remember five or six periods in my life where a specific combination of people thrown together in close proximity created a sort of magical society, and everyone knew it though no one spoke it. In every case when I've been part of something like that, we were able to add more and more people to the millieu. And the magic kept growing. Some people would fall out, others would arrive. But the core continued on. Eventually, after a year or two, the orbit always begins to wobble. It's not sustainable. But the moment that you realize that was was there is gone, the next one begins to build.You can't go back, but you can go forward. And sometimes, it's even better.-- Scot

[FuzzDuckie]

Had meant to post earlier but I can say that I've never seen Para at LockerGnome.Its a sad day when people let their political views and those of others cloud everything else such as technical knowledge...for example .."well I won't take that person seriously because his views are not like mine or are just wroooong...." Just an example mind you. I don't think I saw that for the most part but it WAS getting a little um....nasty and starting to spill over and affect the overall mood...just my 0.0cents and the lint in my pocket...

[Cluttermagnet]

true.i love to throw out a quick one-liner in response to a previous post.  i know it takes time for others to read my writing, so i'm often terse, pointed.  yet i try not to offend.

Wasn't even thinking of you when I posted, Temmu. Peace, bro...

[greengeek]

as an aside, i don't believe i read the politcal section as i know everybody else is just so wrong...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't even notice a political section! Being in Australia, US politics aren't that interesting to me.