raymac46 Posted May 26 Share Posted May 26 If you've got 10 minutes watch this and tell me what you think. It really doesn't concern me as I run Linux on old junkers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crp Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Desktop Linux might , but distro's used in data centers ... I have a feeling those will be worked out. Heck , nVidea might even put out a server version of Linux to use NPU's as much as possible. Maybe even an ARM chip to run the distro on. (i use older pc's for my Linux uses as well.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I am ok without AI being included in my OS. I've been seeing it for years at work. We will be talking about something and all of a sudden it is in search results and articles when opening a new tab on Edge. I'm ok without the tracking and recording. Don't really care but like crp pointed out, linux runs the net and data servers so I am not really worried about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Plus we do not have actual AI yet, we have machine learning. Once the machines can think, it doesn't matter the OS; we are all screwed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 23 minutes ago, securitybreach said: Plus we do not have actual AI yet, we have machine learning. Once the machines can think, it doesn't matter the OS; we are all screwed. Not sure if that will be the moment, or once they become sentient. Man has been subjugating the environment for thousands of years, with no regard beyond the "immediate outcome". Once we've taught the machines all WE know, why would THEY behave or think any differently. Once we put renewable energies in place, we won't even be able to turn off the power... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 That and based on the data being fed, humans are the problem. A logical deduction would be to end humanity to"save" the planet. Reminds me of the classic "War Games" from 1984. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 My daughter works for the Canadian Federal government as part of a task force to replace scores of incompatible Human Resources systems with a single source data, unified services system. I am sure machine learning will be part of it. The government tried to do this once before, but made a lot of stupid decisions like relocating all the jobs in HR to New Brunswick from Ottawa, losing all instititutional memory in the process. Also there was a lot of pushback in the individual departments and agencies as nobody gets everything they want with a new system. The result was a disaster, as folks weren't paid for weeks, promotions and pay grade changes were not logged. Fortunately my daughter wasn't working on this. Now she is tasked with taking a human (one might say humane) look at any proposed new system - which they must do as the Phoenix system will never be accepted. She is probably one of the few people in the civil service that has Master's degrees in both science and in the humanities. Good luck to her, I say. Her working hardware is a Microsoft Surface laptop, a dock and a couple of big monitors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Neat besides the Surface.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted May 27 Author Share Posted May 27 I mention the Surface because it is one piece of hardware rumored to be getting an NPU chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 Gotcha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abarbarian Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 All the cpu makers will be adding AI capabilities to their chips. Even if a linux distro includes Ai software to their offering we should be able to disable it just as we can any other software we do not want running on our set ups. As to computers taking over the world and getting rid of humans that will never happen. Humans will kill themselves of before that happens. We may already be heading that way if the middle east and russian conflicts get out of hand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 Agreed but I was going by the assumption that society would last but you're right, it probably wont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted May 28 Author Share Posted May 28 I don't know where when and why Armageddon will happen, but if there are neural processors built in to future hardware, the Linux community will figure out some way to use them - either through reverse engineering or if the drivers are proprietary, the manufacturer will provide some sort of blob. An NPU will be needed in servers too so there's no need to have anything but open source drivers for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted May 28 Share Posted May 28 This kind of reminds me of the whole Secure Boot fiasco where people were claiming that it would be the end of linux and all that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted May 29 Author Share Posted May 29 My daughter had big time problems getting her Surface to connect to the ancient monitors supplied by her employer. The Surface dock has Thunderbolt output but monitors have DVI and HDMI input. The employer supplied a Thunderbolt-DVI adapter and a DVI-HDMI cable. When connecting the DVI cable to the adapter and plugging in the HDMI cable to the monitors the Surface tablet would not recognize the monitors. Finally my daughter got an IT friend to come over. He brought DVI to DVI cables and connected those. The monitors then worked. Talk about a kluge job, going through 3 different interfaces and expecting everything to be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 That sounds like an apple way of doing things, adapters all the way down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymac46 Posted May 29 Author Share Posted May 29 (edited) I have used an HDMI to DVI cable before, but I plugged the HDMI cable into the computer video card and the DVI cable into the monitor. But I would certainly prefer the same interface on both ends of the cable. Edited May 29 by raymac46 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 1 hour ago, raymac46 said: I have used an HDMI to DVI cable before, but I plugged the HDMI cable into the computer video card and the DVI cable into the monitor. But I would certainly prefer the same interface on both ends of the cable. Well that is different as its intended. When you go from dvi to hdmi to dp port, you have issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 (edited) Fascinating thread. Thanks, All. I'm running linux desktops exclusively, and on old hardware. It occurred to me, listening to the interesting video, that users of this AI hardware/software would probably be naive to think they could get away with using an 'NPU' strictly locally. Seems to me that the writers could not possibly resist the temptation to include 'phone home' features is said machines. (here, I mean strictly in linux environments) So from my limited perspective, it seem inevitable that these machines could/would function as a sort of spyware... Clutter Edited June 4 by Cluttermagnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 18 minutes ago, Cluttermagnet said: So from mylimited perspective, it seem inevitable that these machines could/would function as a sort of spyware... Clutter They have already announced that part: Quote Microsoft is about to launch a new AI-powered Recall feature that screenshots everything you do on your PC. Recall is part of the new Copilot Plus PCs that are debuting on June 18th, but experts who have tested the feature are already warning that Recall could be a “disaster” for cybersecurity. https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/3/24170305/microsoft-windows-recall-ai-screenshots-security-privacy-issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cluttermagnet Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 (edited) Right, Josh- Well, I have the luxury of not having to deal with Windows any more- It's been over 15 years now since I bid adieu to the MS world. So my comments above were strictly with regard to how NPU might impact linux desktop security. Really, with something that powerful, I have a hard time believing the designers would be able to resist including 'phone home' by default, maybe even hiding it. Yes, I have heard enough about Win 11 to know I'm sure glad I'm not in that world. Win11 appears to be the Darth Vader OS, whereas previous editions were more like, ahhh, Atilla the Hun? (grin) Constant screenshots are surely a security nightmare... Linus, despite how much I admire him, sounds to me like he is getting a bit lax IMO. But I am only a humble end user and this sort of stuff is way beyond my level of understanding. Clutter Edited June 5 by Cluttermagnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 "Autocorrect on steroids" I think this accurately represents the current state of LLMs. Machine Learning is great. Overhyped "AI" chatbots.... they have much more limited utility than companies trying to sell us products currently claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 7 hours ago, Cluttermagnet said: Linus, despite how much I admire him, sounds to me like he is getting a bit lax IMO. But I am only a humble end user and this sort of stuff is way beyond my level of understanding. Clutter Well Linus only works on parts of the kernel and has nothing to do with broad development at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Linus Torvalds on the state of Linux today and how AI figures in its future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 On 5/28/2024 at 7:54 AM, securitybreach said: This kind of reminds me of the whole Secure Boot fiasco where people were claiming that it would be the end of linux and all that. Well technically, they were right. If SecureBoot were enacted, and that was the ONLY variable in the equation, it would've ended Linux on all computers from that moment in time and forward. Problem is that it was NOT the only variable. I have a minor in Economics from Penn State and took a GeoScience class for a Science/Humanities requirement and that GeoSci professor gave the best economics lesson I learned....better than my actual econ classes! We were discussing the limitations of natural resources, given their finite quantities. The discussion shifted to the rising price of gasoline and how society would run out of gas; the decreasing supply of gas was the reason for rising gas prices (this was the late '80s). His contribution to the discussion FLOORED me....he stated that prices were indeed reflective of supply AT THE CURRENT PRICE; but as the price increased, it would become cost-effective for more expensive technologies to extract more of the resource, thereby increasing supply. His point was well received by me. There are often other variables involved than the ONE you are considering. And just when you think you've got it figured out that rising prices unlocks more of the untapped supply, you've got to remember that it took millions or even billions of years for mother earth to create some of these resources, and we are consuming them at an exponentially greater rate than they're being replenished (IF they even are?!). So at some point, you're no longer unlocking untapped supply, but actually depleting the very last of that resource for millions or billions of years, perhaps even forever. I've digressed, but apparently we do that here. To circle back....just lending some support and empirical evidence to SBs statement! LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 49 minutes ago, Hedon James said: Well technically, they were right. If SecureBoot were enacted, and that was the ONLY variable in the equation, it would've ended Linux on all computers from that moment in time and forward. Secure works on quite a few distros, I just never felt a need to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedon James Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 29 minutes ago, securitybreach said: Secure works on quite a few distros, I just never felt a need to use it. No doubt. But I was referring to the folks who evangelized that SecureBoot was a nefarious MS plot to eliminate Linux installations on all hardware, moving forward. Of course, that was exactly the point of SecureBoot....prevent booting of "unauthorized" software. But they didn't anticipate the workarounds (shim?!) the Linux community often develops. Necessity is the mother of invention. And when you think about it, that is the entire raison d'etre for the entire Linux ecosystem. "If there's a problem, yo...I'll solve it!" LOL! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Gotcha, I misunderstood what you meant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
securitybreach Posted June 5 Share Posted June 5 Of course I remember Ballmer's microsoft when they were calling linux a virus and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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