Audio Production on Linux

[Hedon James]

Was gonna send Sunrat a direct message, as I think he & I may be the only ones posting in this thread.  But then I realized, I learn stuff from other folks' threads that seemingly have nothing to do with me....until it does, at a later date, and I remember that thread.  So if mods think this should be a private discussion, let me know, and I'm happy to take it there.  Otherwise, here goes:

 

Sunrat, I'd like to pick your brain regarding Linux Audio, Ardour, Jack, Plugins, and xruns.  Since about 2017, my Studio Machine was running Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, with KX Studio repos, and Ubuntu's low-latency kernel (4.x series, if i recall correctly).  I was running Ardour 5.12, and whatever dependencies got installed from that package, including Jack, Cadence, default plugins, etc...  ALL from KX.  Worked like a dream with my audio card (a Behringer Uphoria 404, if it even matters), but was getting long in the tooth.  It was time to upgrade and bring things forward, even though this setup worked PERFECTLY.  No issues, no xruns (EVER!), everything detected as expected, etc...

 

Fast forward to 2024.  I've switched to Debian as my preferred OS, currently running Debian 12 Bookworm.  I've added KX Studio repos, but KX doesn't provide DAWs anymore, just the KX-brewed audio apps (cadence, carla, catia, etc...) and a host of plugins.  So I've installed Ardour from Debian (v7.31 i think?), and the base packages from KX (I pretty much only use Jack and Cadence, that I can see); and I've installed the plugin packages that look familiar to me, i.e. Calf, gxstudio, Robin Gareus (x42), in addition to the community supplied ACE defaults.  Based on the advice of others, I've also installed Linux Studio Plugins (LSP) and am in the process of migrating from Calf to LSP (so far, so good....I'm liking the LSP plugins!).  Debian doesn't have a "low latency kernel", so I've installed the liquorix kernel (v.6.7.12-1).

 

Pulling my previous workflow forward, I have typically used DrumGizmo to capture MIDI from my e-drum kit, simultaneous with analog (a reference audio track only).  I then took the MIDI file and pulled it into a Windows laptop and imported to EZDrummer3 to convert to audio; which was then exported as *wav stems and imported back into my Linux DAW as separate tracks.  This has worked just fine for me, but has become a PITA....  Recently discovered Ugritone Drums as a native linux plugin; i LOVE the sounds and the ability to work completely from within my Ardour DAW on my linux desktop!  But I have noticed MANY xruns registering in Cadence.  Can't hear them when audio is playing, but they're accumulating.  After much experimentation, it seems these xruns are occurring when the chosen kit in Ugritone gets "loaded", and when the preferred "routing" is selected.  If I'm correct, is this a problem?  Are xruns in Cadence an issue if they're not occurring during playback or record?  I've cruised forums and many users (on Windows, Mac, AND Linux) are reporting similar issues....lots of xruns with Ugritone plugins.  I have messaged Ugritone and they're aware, but point out the drum VST is a "beta" and they're working on improving it.  In the meantime, I'm left wondering....is what I'm experiencing even a problem, if it isn't happening during playback or record, or it can't be heard? 

 

Alternatively, I've started learning to use the DrumGizmo kits (I've downloaded the Crocell), and use it for capture AND audio processing.  And I've got a setting that sounds VERY much like my EZD3 kit....very happy with it!  But I've noticed that DG produces xruns on occasion also.  Not nearly as many as Ugritone; maybe 1 or 2 or 4(?) if I leave it open a LONG time.  Haven't been able to isolate when the xruns occur, but have eliminated that it does NOT occur during playback/record. 

 

So with ALL that background, here's my question:  Is this a problem, is there anything I can do on MY end to improve things?  Maybe I'm spoiled by my old setup, where NO xruns were ever experienced, but that's my frame of reference.  Is that unusual, or is that the standard?

 

I have changed so much in my software that I can't possibly isolate what the culprit MAY be.  What I can say with 100% certainty is that it isn't the hardware.  It's the exact same hardware....I just pulled the old disks, installed new disks, and installed all new software and re-built the system from there.  NO HARDWARE has been changed.  Summary of changed variables:

Ubuntu 16.04 swapped for Debian 12

Ubuntu low-latency kernel swapped for Debian liquorix kernel

Ardour 5.12 swapped for Ardour 7.31

and any upgrades of KX dependency software between 2017ish and 2024!

 

Can you educate me a little on xruns?  I know they're bad, but maybe not fatal?  Is there a way to determine what is causing them, and when they occur?  Do you see anything in my software choices that causes concern?  Any advice on the best way to move forward and restore my "0 xruns experience", or is that unrealistic?

 

TIA for any advice you may offer!

 

Edited May 18 by Hedon James

[securitybreach]

So I know absolutely nothing about music production but I turned my boss onto Linuxmint years ago and he does. I can run something across him if you like when I get back to work Monday. Just let me know

[Hedon James]

1 minute ago, securitybreach said:

So I know absolutely nothing about music production but I turned my boss onto Linuxmint years ago and he does. I can run something across him if you like when I get back to work Monday. Just let me know

By all means, please do!  I'm not picky about where the knowledge comes from, only that the information is good!  I'm sure there are others who can educate me, but Sunrat is the only one I know of?!  LOL!

[securitybreach]

Well I was referring to what applications he would use for certain things and such. I don't think he is running different kernels and such but he might be. He is a computer guy and hasnt asked me any questions about linux in years but I know he still runs linuxmint.

[sunrat]

Tuning for optimum audio performance is a rabbithole I've found myself in many times. The best guide is https://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration

A most helpful script is rtcqs (formerly Realtime Config Quick Scan) - https://codeberg.org/rtcqs/rtcqs . Run it and implement its recommendations until everything shows as [OK]. I set frequency scaling governor to Performance. For Liquorix you need to add kernel option threadirqs. I also disable mitigations with mitigations=off and disable C-states.

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet intel_idle.max_cstate=0 processor.max_cstate=1 threadirqs mitigations=off"

The c-states is for Intel, and there are security implications disabling mitigations; for my Haswell CPU it can improve performance up to ~30%

 

What audio server do you have? I still use Pulseaudio > JACK > ALSA. Some DEs eg.GNOME now use Pipewire which I know very little about so far.

 

A few xruns are to be expected, mainly just when loading files or plugins. Should be minimal or zero when playing or recording. You can run specific tests for xruns with xruncounter from https://github.com/Gimmeapill/xruncounter

 

I think it is worth paying a few bucks to get the latest Ardour rather than the old repo version. I paid 5 bucks and have v.8.6.0 and it covers updates until v.9.

The KX repo is less useful than it used to be as the devs focus mainly on their own projects and quite a few 3rd party plugins are now a version or more behind upstream. I get LSP from upstream and contribute to his Patreon. I use Qjackctl in preference to Cadence (setup of rncbc repo shown in attached guide).

 

I wrote a guide for setting up my system with KDE Plasma, on Intel and Nvidia hardware. Some of it may be relevant for you. File attached.

bookworm-setup.txt

The easiest way however to have a functioning audio production system is to use a dedicated distro. AVL-MXE is excellent; the latest version uses Enlightenment desktop which is very lean. It's based on MX which is based on Debian Bookworm.

 

Lotsa luck, and say hi to the rabbits!

[securitybreach]

Very cool Sunrat

[Hedon James]

EXCELLENT Sunrat....TY!

 

Maybe the biggest take from all that information is that "A few xruns are to be expected, mainly just when loading files or plugins. Should be minimal or zero when playing or recording."  I have that now, in my current setup, using DrumGizmo to capture MIDI and convert to analog prints.  I guess I was spoiled with my old setup, which was a stock Lubuntu that I added KX Studio Repos and configured to taste.  That setup never had xruns, with no tweaking.  So for me, THAT was the expected behavior; but you're telling me that was exceptional behavior.  And the xruns I'm noticing now aren't showing up during playback/recording runs.....they're showing up during Plugin loads/activations and change of settings.  Sounds like IF that's the case, THAT is somewhat to be expected?

 

My CPU is a Ryzen 5, with a discrete ATI video card.  I can't remember, but I may be bypassing that videocard for the onboard with the Ryzen 5.  Nevertheless, I'll run down some of your suggestions because I do want it to be the best it can be...even if tests confirm it's already there, I'll want to know that!  Since I'm using Ryzen, sounds like I can skip the C-states, and focus on threadirq and mitigation.

 

I am using the PA > Jack > ALSA setup...no pipewire (although looking forward to the day when it's the default in Debian!)  Since all hardware is IDENTICAL (remember, I just pulled my OLD drives, put new drives in and reinstalled, with no hardware changes whatsoever!) I made my Cadence settings in the new Debian exact clones of my old settings in Lubuntu.

 

Those Cadence settings include default settings on the Engine tab, and the Network tab isn't being used.  My Driver tab uses ALSA, with settings of 44100 sample rate (good enough for CDs, good enough for me), buffer of 256, and 2 periods/buffer; collectively yielding 5.8ms of latency.  BTW....this matches the latency on my dedicated drum station/windows laptop using ASIO driver.  My MIDI driver is ALSA Raw-MIDI.  Any settings that catch your eye that COULD be better?  Reading forums, I'm seeing suggestions that 3 periods/buffer would be better, but I'm not clear WHY.  What are your thoughts and advice?

 

TIA Sunrat!

Edited May 20 by Hedon James

[sunrat]

I recall seeing 3 periods/buffer is recommended for USB sound cards, don't know why. It would be simple to test it. Mine is set to 2/512 but I have an old M-Audio 2496 PCI card and haven't done recording for ages.

[securitybreach]

Well back at work. I can ask my boss what sound card he uses on his linux machine.

[securitybreach]

Well no go on there:

 

Quote

good morning - i don't do any serious audio processing on Linux, probably just post-processing to make basic edits on WAV files so i've made no hardware or configuration changes with pulseaudio

 

all the composing and recording i do on a windows machine since the DAW i want to use is only available there, as are most of the plugins i like

 

[Hedon James]

1 hour ago, securitybreach said:

good morning - i don't do any serious audio processing on Linux, probably just post-processing to make basic edits on WAV files so i've made no hardware or configuration changes with pulseaudio

 

all the composing and recording i do on a windows machine since the DAW i want to use is only available there, as are most of the plugins i like

 ^ that's actually pretty common, but there has been GREAT progress in the last 5+/- years.

 

Ardour started as a Linux DAW, but offers Windows & Mac versions.  That's my choice.  Harrison Mixbus is a somewhat newer DAW, based on Ardour, and is also cross platform.  REAPER is a more recent DAW, and is cross platform.  Studio One is a major player in the DAW arena and has recently started offering its DAW as a Beta on Linux; it's neither "free", nor "freeware", and requires a license registration, but it's the first MAJOR player in the audio production software arena to recognize the recent shift in professional audio users moving to Linux; and they're chasing those folks!  There are some other smaller DAW projects on Linux, but I'd say their niche and/or specialized use....such as LMMS, QTractor, Rosegarden....and they're Linux-only as far as I know.....so, very small user-base.  Once upon a time, ProTools was the big daddy of DAW software, and probably still is...for Win and Macs.  But Ardour, Harrison, REAPER, and Studio One have been putting some serious dents in the former ProTools userbase.  And it's not uncommon for folks to have more than 1 DAW, because some DAWs do some things better, and it's always smart to have a backup software, IMO.  I'm an Ardour guy, but I also have REAPER waiting in the wings.  REAPER has nice features for Drum VSTis and MIDI editing.  Ardour devs have indicated they're not interested in implementing those features (at this time), so who knows.....over time, I may become a REAPER guy.  I like 'em both, and they're both very solid on Linux.

 

Same thing goes for plugins....perhaps even moreso!  A lot of the gyrations I'm going through right now revolve around the dearth of Drum VST plugins for Linux.  There are a few, but they all lack SOMETHING that the dozens of Windows & Mac Drum VSTs offer.  There are so many for Windows & Mac that it's hard to choose which one is the right one for your use case.....MTPowerDrumkit (freeware), EZDrummer, SuperiorDrummer, StevenSlateDrums (SSD), AddictiveDrums, BFD, PerfectDrums....and these are just the more popular offerings.  There are at least as many "boutique" offerings that I haven't mentioned.  None of them are for Linux.  Ugritone Drums has recently started offering their Drum VSTi plugins as an "unadvertised" beta....and are now cross-platform.  So that's one, but hardly anyone knows about it.  The others are AVL Drumkits and DrumGizmo, and that's pretty much it.  AVL is probably the most polished plugin, but their 3 drumsets (including Red Zeppelin, Black Pearl, and Blonde Bop) do not have enough drums to map to all my skins.  Most kits are 5-piece (mine included), but AVL drums are only 4 (kick, snare, rack tom, and floor tom); I'll lose all my racktom2 hits, or have to completely change my playing style to avoid racktom2.  Better to change the software, IMO.  That leaves me with DrumGizmo by default.  I have always used DG to capture my MIDI; but then I moved the MIDI to a Win machine and processed the MIDI into analog drums with EZD, and then pulled that analog audio back into my Linux machine to finish the song/project.  The "other half" of DrumGizmo is the analog drum samples available.....they are VERY RAW.....the phrase "wysiwyg" comes to mind....mics only, no processing whatsoever.  To my untrained ears, they were unusable.  I have since learned a lot about audio production (but still know very little, LOL!) and am able to gate, EQ, compress, and add the right amount of reverb for a usable drum tone, and I can now process DG into a very strong resemblance of the pre-mixed EZD tones!  So DrumGizmo is only now just starting to get the nod from me as the preferred Drum VSTi for MY use-case scenario in Linux audio production!  It's still lacking a MIDI "table" to edit percussive notes/velocities, and a sequencer to edit grooves/measures, but I can duplicate that (with more effort) from within the DAW itself.  Not ideal, but making solid progress and that's a different problem for a different day.

 

And that's just a discussion for Drum VST plugins.  Extrapolate that to other plugin tools, and you'll see the same occurrence.  So many for Windows, it's hard to decide; so few for Linux, your preferred plugin will choose you, based on the fact that its the ONLY one that does that one thing that matters to you most.  But I've noticed the trend with DAWs on Linux, and plugin devs follow their DAWs; so it's only a matter of time until the plugins gain more variety also.  So you're boss is right, and I get it.  But it IS changing.

 

In the meantime, I made a change.  I've always used Calf Plugins....it's a carryover from my old days of Cubase DAW on Windows.  Calf looks familiar and is somewhat known to me.  I was ecstatic to find them in Linux-land.  But I'm learning from others in different forums that there are better issues, without various audio artefacts (that I don't hear...at least not at this time) that Calf introduces.  Fortunately, there's a PRIMO set of plugins for anything you might need on Linux...."Linux Studio Plugins" a/k/a LSP.  I've been slowly switching over and duplicating my Calf settings; and as I'm getting more familiar with LSP and the interface, I'm also noticing knobs and features that Calf didn't have.  So I'm digging the LSP plugins, and thinking I'll grow INTO them over time, rather than OUT OF.  And that's perfect for me....

 

In a nutshell, I'm reading articles that indicate major studios are looking at, or even already using, Linux as an audio production platform.  These are audio geeks and engineers akin to US as computer geeks/software hackers, and they are recognizing that Linux can easily do things with audio that Windows struggles with.  And time is money in the studio.  Stay tuned....this is another industry that Linux is primed to take over, and has reached enough of a user-base that perhaps critical mass to adoption is imminent?!

Edited May 20 by Hedon James

[securitybreach]

Thanks James, I passed that along to my boss.

 

[Hedon James]

On 5/18/2024 at 8:12 PM, sunrat said:

Tuning for optimum audio performance is a rabbithole I've found myself in many times. The best guide is https://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration

A most helpful script is rtcqs (formerly Realtime Config Quick Scan) - https://codeberg.org/rtcqs/rtcqs . Run it and implement its recommendations until everything shows as [OK]. I set frequency scaling governor to Performance. For Liquorix you need to add kernel option threadirqs. I also disable mitigations with mitigations=off and disable C-states.

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet intel_idle.max_cstate=0 processor.max_cstate=1 threadirqs mitigations=off"

<snipped>

 

A few xruns are to be expected, mainly just when loading files or plugins. Should be minimal or zero when playing or recording. You can run specific tests for xruns with xruncounter from https://github.com/Gimmeapill/xruncounter

 

I think it is worth paying a few bucks to get the latest Ardour rather than the old repo version. I paid 5 bucks and have v.8.6.0 and it covers updates until v.9.

The KX repo is less useful than it used to be as the devs focus mainly on their own projects and quite a few 3rd party plugins are now a version or more behind upstream. I get LSP from upstream and contribute to his Patreon. I use Qjackctl in preference to Cadence (setup of rncbc repo shown in attached guide).

 

I wrote a guide for setting up my system with KDE Plasma, on Intel and Nvidia hardware. Some of it may be relevant for you. File attached.

bookworm-setup.txt 7.28 kB · 1 download

The easiest way however to have a functioning audio production system is to use a dedicated distro. AVL-MXE is excellent; the latest version uses Enlightenment desktop which is very lean. It's based on MX which is based on Debian Bookworm.

 

Lotsa luck, and say hi to the rabbits!

 

Your info, especially your setup.txt file, was VERY helpful.  The rtcqs tool was a PITA, because I don't understand the CLI incantations, and I don't just copy/paste CLI commands I found on the internet without understanding what they do.  But in this case, I figured Sunrat was my canary in the coal mine and he would've warned me if anything was dodgy or outdated advice.

 

In spite of all that, I am indeed down the rabbit hole in Wonderland, LOL!  I've made several improvements, and I may in fact be just fine; but I still have some questions.  Mainly just information gathering, I think, that I haven't been able to ascertain on my own.  Let me gather my thoughts and I'll be back to post my experiences and subsequent questions.  TIA!

[Hedon James]

4 hours ago, Hedon James said:

 

Your info, especially your setup.txt file, was VERY helpful.  The rtcqs tool was a PITA, because I don't understand the CLI incantations, and I don't just copy/paste CLI commands I found on the internet without understanding what they do.  But in this case, I figured Sunrat was my canary in the coal mine and he would've warned me if anything was dodgy or outdated advice.

 

In spite of all that, I am indeed down the rabbit hole in Wonderland, LOL!  I've made several improvements, and I may in fact be just fine; but I still have some questions.  Mainly just information gathering, I think, that I haven't been able to ascertain on my own.  Let me gather my thoughts and I'll be back to post my experiences and subsequent questions.  TIA!

Okay Sunrat....thoughts collected!  Any more solid advice, my friend?  Edumacate me?

 

Looking at your notes, I added "threadirqs and mitigations=off" to my kernel boot parameters in GRUB, and plan on modifying them permanently in grub.cfg file. My CPU is a Ryzen3, so Intel mods are not applicable to me, and I haven't found any AMD equivalent mods.  With those 2 changes, I moved on to your rtcqs diagnostic tool.

Starting with the rtcqs_gui tool, my system was actually in pretty good shape.  My swappiness was set to default 60, so I made the mod to swappiness=10 and made that a permanent change.

 

The other big item was the lack of a cpu governor for "performance" mode.  Turns out my default was "ondemand", so I made the suggested change for "performance" with the CLI command:

sudo cpufreq-set -r -g performance

but rtcqs still reported the cpu governor setting as an issue.  when I checked that all was set correctly, using:

cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor

only the first core was changed to "performance"; 3 additional cores remained "ondemand".  But I found an alternative command:

echo -n performance | sudo tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor

that sets all 4 cores to "performance" mode, and rtcqs reports it as ok.

 

So my first QUESTION is to wonder why "performance" mode is necessary?  It is my understanding that "ondemand" is default because it saves power and CPU cycles, because it's not necessarily prudent to "redline" your CPU at all times, if only simple tasks are being executed.  It is also my understanding that "performance" mode runs the CPU at the highest clock rate, regardless of task.  It seems to me that "ondemand" should "scale up" to "performance", correct?  What am I missing or misunderstanding?  And if I need "performance" mode, is there a way to make that the default at boot?  I followed the example in the Debian WIKI, but they use "ondemand" as the example, and I'm not sure what the parameters should be for "performance".  If there's no way, I've got the CLI in a text document (like you!) for a simple copy/paste into terminal; not ideal, but functional.  Thoughts on that?

 

Speaking of the rtcqs tool, I obviously got it running, using the first set of instructions (option #1) on the website:
https://codeberg.org/rtcqs/rtcqs.git

But after the fact, I realized there was an "editable" option that I think I'd prefer, as the CLI incantation seems "cleaner" and easier to remember; plus I could make it a very simple bash script and/or create a desktop launcher & icon for it.  But when I follow through with instructions, I get an error message about the directory not being empty, and the installation is aborted.  Wondering which option you chose Sunrat?  If I wanted to follow through and change the way rtcqs is invoked, is it as simple as deleting the current directory path and then recreating with the "git clone" instruction set?  On the other hand, maybe it's a waste of time because I imagine after I get the system tweaked, I may never run it again?  What's your experience?  Once & done, or a tool that continues to be useful in the future?

 

I get 2 other suggestions from rtcqs tool:  1 regarding not allowing for gvfs mounts and the second regarding the lack of a power use (can't remember...have to run again to quote the message).  I need the gvfs mount for my GoogleDrive and shared access with other collaborators...it's how we swap & share tracks.  The 2nd message didn't seem to apply to me either, but those are the only 2 messages still presenting in rtcqs.  Even so, I've reduced my xruns to 0(!), except in some rare circumstances that I'm still experimenting with.

 

I still need to keep stressing the system and see how things go, but knock on wood....things seem to be better.  Xruns are now an exception, rather than expected.  I seem to have isolated xruns to the startup of Ardour projects with MIDI plugins...specifically DrumGizmo.  But once loaded, I'm good to go, with no additional xruns.  I'm looking into DrumGizmo settings to see if there's any way to optimize them to reduce xruns.

 

I haven't looked into the xruncounter by "gimmeapill", because I can (could?) see xruns incrementing in Cadence and Ardour, so that tool seems redundant to me.  But I did notice that Cadence and Ardour increment xruns differently; the counts don't necessarily match.  Any thoughts on why that might me?  Is that a clue, or just the nature of different thresholds getting triggered differently?

 

Lastly, I did take a look at AVLinux to see if that might be the path of least resistance for me.  For now, it's not....it's just too "foreign" to me.  I've got enough new stuff to learn right now, without adding a new interface and appearance to the mix, and while tinkering with it, I was able to generate xruns; so it may or may not be a viable substitute for me.  But I do like the inclusion of Harrison Mixbus and Reaper7 on that distro!  I can learn some things from the AVLinux setup and who knows...maybe with enough familiarity gained, perhaps it could work for me in the future?!  In the meantime, I feel I am VERY close with my current setup.

 

You mentioned you are on Ardour8.9; while the bookworm repos are on 7.3.  That's a big jump from my previous 3.5 version in Lubuntu (former OS).  I remember reading in the LinuxMusician forum somewhere that versions of Ardour from 7.3-8.1 can be buggy with certain plugins, causing xruns and even crashes in worst case scenarios.  Any thoughts on this statement?  Or maybe just an opinion of a frustrated user?  IF I wanted to upgrade to a version > 8.1 (the last referenced "buggy" version), would it be as simple as uninstalling the current version from Bookworm repo (7.3) and then installing a DEB for the current version?  I read on Ardour forums where users can have multiple versions on the same machine, but not sure how that would work in Linux-land?  Seems like there would be dependency conflicts?  How did YOU do it?  I'm inclined to stay on 7.3 (at least for now) and continue to keep an eye on my system, but if I need to consider a newer version, I want to know what it entails before I start to unravel my system in effort to make it better.

 

TIA!

[sunrat]

Took me a while to parse all this.

I generally run ondemand governor unless running a demanding session. Just a few channels of mixing probably will work ok with ondemand. There's a great utility called cpupower-gui you can get from Github to switch governor easily on the fly. I had an old version from the repo but the newer 1.0.0-1 version is better - https://github.com/vagnum08/cpupower-gui/releases/ Just download the .deb and install it locally. I just found this the other day.

I've noticed performance doesn't lock to a fixed frequency now like it used to. Something else has changed which I'm not aware of. Yet. Still works OK though.

 

I just run the CLI version of rtcqs. Can't be bothered setting up python venv for the gui as it is basically the same. Doesn't need to be run after making all the tweaks permanently but I keep it around as it's tiny.

 

I guess the gvfs thing just means don't record direct to GDrive.

 

I have "borrowed" a lot of config ideas from AVLinux. I have it installed on a separate partition but don't use it much. It's gone over to Pipewire now so I'll probably have to learn that one of these years. Debian likely will for Trixie, already does for GNOME.

 

Ardour 8.6 is nice and if you download it I guess it would install alongside 7.3. It installs into /opt/ and configs go in ~/config/ardour8

I mainly use Mixbus though and just upgraded to Mixbus Pro v.10 which gives SSL channel EQs, Dolby Atmos, and includes all the nice Harrison XT plugins. It's rather expensive to get into now - 500 bucks! I've owned a few versions so upgrade was only 99 bucks.

 

 

[securitybreach]

I know nothing of audio production but I have been reading along

[Hedon James]

1 hour ago, securitybreach said:

I know nothing of audio production but I have been reading along

So we finally found a topic that SB is the student and someone else is the mentor?  LOL!

 

I know very little, but I'm trying to learn more.  It's a lot like my Linux experience....I can drive the car, even though it's a manual; but if there's a problem, I'm not much of a mechanic.  Fortunately, at least I KNOW some good mechanics! 

[sunrat]

The more you learn, the more you know how little you know.

 

I was chatting today with a couple of guys who do audio for broadcast and TV, one has a university degree in audio engineering. It was like they were from a different planet.

[Hedon James]

On 7/4/2024 at 8:22 AM, sunrat said:

Took me a while to parse all this.

I generally run ondemand governor unless running a demanding session. Just a few channels of mixing probably will work ok with ondemand. There's a great utility called cpupower-gui you can get from Github to switch governor easily on the fly. I had an old version from the repo but the newer 1.0.0-1 version is better - https://github.com/vagnum08/cpupower-gui/releases/ Just download the .deb and install it locally. I just found this the other day.

I've noticed performance doesn't lock to a fixed frequency now like it used to. Something else has changed which I'm not aware of. Yet. Still works OK though.

 

I just run the CLI version of rtcqs. Can't be bothered setting up python venv for the gui as it is basically the same. Doesn't need to be run after making all the tweaks permanently but I keep it around as it's tiny.

 

I guess the gvfs thing just means don't record direct to GDrive.

 

I have "borrowed" a lot of config ideas from AVLinux. I have it installed on a separate partition but don't use it much. It's gone over to Pipewire now so I'll probably have to learn that one of these years. Debian likely will for Trixie, already does for GNOME.

 

Ardour 8.6 is nice and if you download it I guess it would install alongside 7.3. It installs into /opt/ and configs go in ~/config/ardour8

I mainly use Mixbus though and just upgraded to Mixbus Pro v.10 which gives SSL channel EQs, Dolby Atmos, and includes all the nice Harrison XT plugins. It's rather expensive to get into now - 500 bucks! I've owned a few versions so upgrade was only 99 bucks.

 

 

I seem to have eliminated my xruns, according to Cadence, by:

• decreasing swappiness to 10
• changing cpugovernor to performance
• adding threadirqs and mitigations=off to kernel boot parameters
• changing the MIDI driver in Cadence from "Alsa-MIDI-raw" to "none"; I read this either conflicts, or adds an additional layer to a2jmidid; changing to "none" seems to have a positive effect

 

I spent a long day in recording sessions yesterday, with no xruns; even using DrumGizmo (without tweaking) to convert MIDI to analog drums.  Cadence xruns remained at 0 (this was my baseline experience in old OS and Ardour 3.5 and old KXStudio repos).  But Ardour seems to randomly indicate xruns (this is a new behavior in 7.3 that didn't exist in 3.5).  I don't know if Cadence is providing false zeros, or if Ardour is providing false xruns. 

 

But of those two, I consider Ardour 7.3 the more "suspect".  7.3 seems buggy to me. 

• Popup windows aren't the right size, and even though I resize and "save on close", those changes aren't honored on the next use. 
• I can no longer use the "ctrl" key to select multiple plugins in a channel, to copy & paste to a new channel; they must be dragged individually. 
• When creating new settings in a plugin, and then saving those settings as a new pre-set, the "naming window" always goes UNDER the parent window.  I have to right click the window, invoke the fluxbox WM settings and choose the "normal" layer for window placement, which reveals the "naming window".  But it doesn't "stick" for the next use. 
• The "end" marker for tracks isn't always honored, with the playhead continuing right past it and requiring my intervention to stop.

 

All my observations indicate that Ardour 7.3 is a "buggy" release and I'm not a fan.  Multiple apt updates and upgrades have failed to provide any fixes.  I'd definitely be interested in upgrading from 7.3 to a newer version.  If you're on Bookworm/Stable (as I am), then 7.3 is the repo version.  How did you upgrade?  Did you have to compile from source?  Did you find a DEB file?  Using a snap/flatpack?  Is 7.3 still on your system, just not being used?  If you removed it, did you remove 7.3 then install newer version; or did you install newer version, then remove 7.3?

 

It's too soon for me to say with 100% confidence, but it's starting to feel like all of my remaining "issues" are Ardour related.  I think I'm at that place that I need to replace it and find out.

Edited July 5 by Hedon James

[Hedon James]

20 minutes ago, sunrat said:

The more you learn, the more you know how little you know.

 

I was chatting today with a couple of guys who do audio for broadcast and TV, one has a university degree in audio engineering. It was like they were from a different planet.

EXACTLY!

[sunrat]

@Hedon James To get Ardour 8.6 go to https://community.ardour.org/download (I gave $5) and download a .run file which is the installer. You get free upgrades of point releases until the next major version release.  Create an account so they remember you, or alternatively you need to input your invoice number each time.

 

There's a setting in Preferences > Transport > Stop at end of session.

 

What DE are you using? I have a tweak for KDE Plasma which makes plugins and dialogs stay on top (mostly). No idea about other DEs.

 

[Hedon James]

20 minutes ago, sunrat said:

@Hedon James To get Ardour 8.6 go to https://community.ardour.org/download (I gave $5) and download a .run file which is the installer. You get free upgrades of point releases until the next major version release.  Create an account so they remember you, or alternatively you need to input your invoice number each time.

 

There's a setting in Preferences > Transport > Stop at end of session.

 

What DE are you using? I have a tweak for KDE Plasma which makes plugins and dialogs stay on top (mostly). No idea about other DEs.

 

I've donated to Ardour for Windows versions, and have an account.  But I think my Windows version is 7.9.  I don't have these issues with Ardour7.9-win but, then again, it's just a dedicated drum station for MIDI drums (my electronic kit) and EZD3.  Trying to make this drum station obsolete, but Ardour7.3 is preventing this.  I have no issues making another donation to bump up to the v8 series.  Seems like 8.9 would be a sweet spot before they start introducing new features (bugs?) in the 9 series...JMO.

 

I'm familiar with the Preferences > Transport > Stop at end of session setting, and it's set.  It just doesn't honor it, for some undetermined reason.  Sometimes it does, but most often it does not.  Weird....BUGGY!

 

I'm using LXQt.  I saw your Plasma tweak, but can't seem to identify anything similar in LXQt.  Not sure if its a DE thing, or a WM thing; but I used Fluxbox as the WM in my prior OS (Lubuntu with LXDE) with NO issues.  It's even the same version of Fluxbox (1.3.5).  So the variables having changed are the underlying OS (Lubuntu vs. Debian), DE (LXDE vs LXQT) and Ardour (3.5 vs 7.3).  Since I'm experiencing multiple minor issues with Ardour, and not just one, I'm inclined to believe that Ardour is the culprit.  FWIW...

Edited July 5 by Hedon James

[securitybreach]

9 hours ago, Hedon James said:

So we finally found a topic that SB is the student and someone else is the mentor?  LOL!

 

I know very little, but I'm trying to learn more.  It's a lot like my Linux experience....I can drive the car, even though it's a manual; but if there's a problem, I'm not much of a mechanic.  Fortunately, at least I KNOW some good mechanics! 

 

Well not really as I do not have a reason to do any audio stuff. I just stream music. That said, it sounds interesting anyway.

[securitybreach]

9 hours ago, Hedon James said:

So we finally found a topic that SB is the student and someone else is the mentor?  LOL!

 

Mentor, ha. I am just as confused as everyone else, I am just good at finding solutions.

[securitybreach]

9 hours ago, sunrat said:

The more you learn, the more you know how little you know.

 

Absolutely correct!!! No one is a master of anything computer related as everything is forever evolving. It's about knowing how to find the answer that matters. I've done automotive stuff and had no clue how to do it so I followed along a youtube video.

[Hedon James]

Hey Sunrat, and anyone else who's interested (VT woulda been interested!), here's a link to recently completed song, fresh off the silicon...now that I got the xruns calmed down!  I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm some peoples' cup of tea!  Enjoy!

 

https://www.reverbnation.com/hedonmachine/song/34554062-the-nth-degree

[securitybreach]

16 minutes ago, Hedon James said:

Hey Sunrat, and anyone else who's interested (VT woulda been interested!), here's a link to recently completed song, fresh off the silicon...now that I got the xruns calmed down!  I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm some peoples' cup of tea!  Enjoy!

 

https://www.reverbnation.com/hedonmachine/song/34554062-the-nth-degree

 

Sounds cool, reminds me of a mix of 80s rock. I like it.

[sunrat]

1 hour ago, Hedon James said:

Hey Sunrat, and anyone else who's interested (VT woulda been interested!), here's a link to recently completed song, fresh off the silicon...now that I got the xruns calmed down!  I'm not everyone's cup of tea, but I'm some peoples' cup of tea!  Enjoy!

 

https://www.reverbnation.com/hedonmachine/song/34554062-the-nth-degree

 

That's pretty good, you've come a long way with your mixing. I'd suggest to replace that snare with a more realistic big snare sample. And try to balance the kick with the bass, currently kick is huge but bass gets lost a bit.

The guitar in "Fear That Binds" sounds good, haven't listened past that yet. Hints of Metallica. "The Unforgiven" came on the car radio the other day and I had to turn it way up, awesome song.

[Hedon James]

12 hours ago, securitybreach said:

 

Sounds cool, reminds me of a mix of 80s rock. I like it.

I grew up on 70s & 80s rock.  Started learning to play guitar around 1980.  It was probably inevitable that I'd sound like my inspiration(s).  I take it as a compliment, so thank you for that!

[Hedon James]

10 hours ago, sunrat said:

 

That's pretty good, you've come a long way with your mixing. I'd suggest to replace that snare with a more realistic big snare sample. And try to balance the kick with the bass, currently kick is huge but bass gets lost a bit.

The guitar in "Fear That Binds" sounds good, haven't listened past that yet. Hints of Metallica. "The Unforgiven" came on the car radio the other day and I had to turn it way up, awesome song.

Thanks Sunrat!  I'd like to think I'm improving, so nice to hear someone else thinks so too!  LOL!

 

Agreed on the snare.  Not happy with it, and don't like it, but I can live with it (for now) until I find a better solution.  I'm real happy with the entire drum kit, except the snare and the ride.  I like a stronger ride, higher in the mix, but there's a LOT of bleed in the ride channel that I can't gate out without losing the ride itself.  What you're hearing is my "best fit" middle-ground.  Any lower, it gets lost; any higher, it clips.  Other than those 2 elements....I'm actually very happy with drums!

 

I'll have to listen to bass to hear what you hear.  As you are no doubt aware....sometimes you just can't hear what your ear hasn't been trained to hear yet.