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hkspike

NIS 04

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hkspike

Just checked my daughter's PC for Symantec NIS 04 updates and noted that the auto live update doesn't seem to be working over our domestic WAN behind a Linksys firewall and that when I updated NIS, Symantec sent me a 23Mb file of Internet Parental Control data. 23Mb - holy smoke! What's in the file? Fortunately over a 3 meg broadband that's not much of an issue but I wouldn't want to be on a dial-up!! :P Anybody any ideas about making live update work over a WAN? It says it's there and ready to go but it ain't going!Andy

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JackR

23Mb - holy smoke! What's . :blink: NIS startes as AtGuard 3.2MB and it was just as good as the current version. :thumbsup:

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hkspike

As "linuxdude32" points out, Scot promptly published an article about LiveUpdate not working; which is the case on 3 PCs at home. I had a look around Symantec's site and found this work around, which is very clever except that I found NetDetect then reports that it does not run because I didn't supply a password to go with the user account. Now this would be because there is NO password associated with my user account on this PC! There's only one user account, period.Has anybody else seen this or figured a way out? Do Symantec seem to be losing their way or is it just me? I seem to be having a lot of issues with their stuff, where once it just worked!Andy

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linuxdude32
As "linuxdude32" points out, Scot promptly published an article about LiveUpdate not working; which is the case on 3 PCs at home. I had a look around Symantec's site and found this work around, which is very clever except that I found NetDetect then reports that it does not run because I didn't supply a password to go with the user account. Now this would be because there is NO password associated with my user account on this PC! There's only one user account, period.
Did you notice this notice before the workaround?
Note: If all of the tasks in Microsoft Task Scheduler are running except Automatic LiveUpdate, then see Automatic LiveUpdate does not update virus definitions, but manual LiveUpdate does. If the solutions in that document do not fix the problem, then try the solutions in this document.
There's a link there to the other workaround which sounds applicable to you. Not sure if it'll work if you've applied the first workaround, though. :unsure:I'm also wondering if the password is something the Symantec software requires now. I don't use it myself, but somebody told me that newer versions require you to activate their software.

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hkspike

Jason/GuysI read that second quote of yours and couldn't convince myself: yes, manual update works but NetDetect advises that it can't start. Is that LiveUpdate not working; my thinking is NIS never gets to the LU part because NetDetect never starts.Anyway, I contacted MS who replied within 24 hours and sent me 2 files Q812400_WXP_SP2_x86_ENU.zip and Q812960_WXP_SP2_x86_ENU.zip despite the fact that I have used MS on-line support before. Didn't expect 2 files and they came with no advice. MS KB has no reference to 812960. Being boringly logical, I installed them numerically and restarted (as requested) between installations.So what's the result? NetDetect does not start but the result is now listed as 0x0 rather than 0x80. So maybe Jason was correct and this solution was where I should always have been. Then again, I no longer get a 0x80 message. As an aside, why can MS not post messages that tell the story; why should 0x80 mean anything to any user except an MS software engineer?Has anybody else tried the original workaround and figured how to configure it if you do not use a password?I'll re-start the beast a few times and see if NetDetect gets it together otherwise I'll use the above link myself. Get back to you.Andy

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linuxdude32
Anyway, I contacted MS who replied within 24 hours and sent me 2 files Q812400_WXP_SP2_x86_ENU.zip and Q812960_WXP_SP2_x86_ENU.zip despite the fact that I have used MS on-line support before. Didn't expect 2 files and they came with no advice. MS KB has no reference to 812960. Being boringly logical, I installed them numerically and restarted (as requested) between installations.
Microsoft probably send you the patches that Scott mentioned in Scotsnewsletter last. Although I had thought it was only one patch. The SP2 part in their name could mean it's only meant if you have SP2 (which is still in beta, you'd know if you had it because you would've had to have applied it yourself, Windows Update wouldn't have) or it could mean it's a patch that is in SP2 that will be released as a part of it. Who knows? The way to solve Windows problems seems to be reboot, patch, reboot, patch, reboot, patch, and pray. B) Let us know what finally works. You might even want to write Scot about your problems (or just a link to this topic) since it sounds similar to his problem but not exactly the same since it affects NIS and not NAV.

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Scot

For what it's worth, the patch I installed from Microsoft relates to KB article 812400:http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?...0&Product=winxpThere was a single patch file. I wasn't able to find a KB article for Q812960 when I searched just now. I'm a little concerned hkspike that your support experience gave you no instruction about what to do. My guess is that they were suggesting that one or the other would help you, but not both.For what it's worth, the email responses to the newsletter item about this have been interesting:http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/56.htm#mstspatchSome people have gotten the same patch and installed it and seen their problems disappear. Others have written to me that the Symantec KB article instructions have done the trick, including the first one:http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/share...nis&svy=&csm=noThis is the second one:http://service1.symantec.com/SUPPORT/share...P&osv=&osv_lvl=Lessons learned:1. Task Scheduler is a terrible application2. Symantec may need to rethink the entire way it handles this process of checking for Internet access and performing LiveUpdates. I've now heard of at least 5 different apparent solutions for the problem, all of which have helped at least some people.But having wrestled with the problem for about two years myself, I have tried many of these lesser fixes (like deleting the NetDetect Task Scheduler entry and then reinstating it again in the LiveUpdate Settings UI) to initial success only to find later on that the problem returns. The Q812400 patch is the only thing that has fully solved my problem. It's still working for me right now, and I believe it will continue to work, because nothing has worked this long before.Personally, I don't believe this is caused by a damaged antivirus definition, as Symantec implies on its website. If that's the case, they have a lot of damaged updates.-- Scot

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Ed_P

Good link siebkens, thanks. Wish I had known it yesterday. I had that problem but have already returned the pc.

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hkspike

That's a great link to the MS KB article; the only problem for me being that, with kids involved, I do not want a password. Since that seems a reasonable choice, I'm led to the conclusion that Task Scheduler and, by extension, LiveUpdate are fatally flawed. Without LU running, AV software is pretty much a waste of time; perhaps it's time for Symantec to raise their game? I have yet to hear back from Symantec Tech Support: that's 8 days after their promise of a reply within 1-2 business days!For the record this is the content of the e-mail from MS:

Thank you for choosing Online Support for your Microsoft Technical Support offering. My name is Jeffrey and I will be assisting you with this service request. For your reference, the case ID of this service request is SRZ040430000738. In your case log, you have indicated that you would like to request for the Hotfix files Q812400 & Q812960 to resolve a Symantec program problem. We shall be working to resolve this specific issue through the course of the case. If I have misunderstood your concern, please let me know. Regarding your request, I will send you the Hotfix files in another email shortly. If you don't receive the second email, please let me know immediately and I will resend. Please take your time to try the Hotfix files and let me know the results at your earliest convenience. If anything is unclear or you have any questions about the steps, please do not hesitate to let me know.
The text of this, the second, e-mail was identical to the first but with the 2 zip files attached. As I said earlier, and Scot confirmed, there appears to be no reference at MS KB to Q812960. Maybe I should have tried one at a time?Currently LU is not running. Hmmmm!I only want one user account on this PC. Is there a way of setting up a password in XP but having the PC boot without reference to it? Or automate the process?Thanks for you thoughts!Andy

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striker

I had the same problem with NAV like Scot described in his newsletter, exactly the same.After I downloaded the latest LiveUpdate patch from Symantec (http://www.symantec.com/techsupp/files/lu/lu.html ) : - look forthe latest patch dated January 6, 2004, probably the first on the list - LiveUpdate worked again. But do NOT forget afterinstalling the patch to restart your computer : this is very important.As said, the patch solved my problem. Until now, LU is working again as it should. Tested for now about 2 weeks.(I mailed this to Scot so he knows about it.)

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hkspike

Good thinking....but I did that long ago.Andy

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siebkens

My kids use my computer too. We all use that same username with no password. What I did is to set up the no-password account as a second account with administrator privileges. My scheduled tasks will still run - I have them set to run as the 1st admin account with the password. I don't really use the first admin account for anything else. This also makes it so my kids can't "accidentally" change the main admin password.

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linuxdude32
I only want one user account on this PC. Is there a way of setting up a password in XP but having the PC boot without reference to it? Or automate the process
TweakUI has an auto-login which includes the password. Of couse, you have to decide which it will auto-login into and then anybody else will need to logout unless the login user doesn't care about people changing their settings.The link that Siebkens mentioned says this:
This problem can occur if you do not have a password set for the user that is scheduling the tasks. Windows XP and Windows 2000 require that local user accounts that are running scheduled tasks must have a password for their account. It is possible for domain accounts to run tasks without passwords.
Thats sounds to me like they're saying you need a password only for the user that will be running the scheduled task. As long as you run as that user occasionally, you'll get your updates (assuming that info is correct).

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siebkens

I don't even have to log into the 1st admin account - the scheduled tasks are set to run as: 1st admin, no matter who is logged in.

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hkspike

I need to get back to you guys regarding setting up passwords and accounts - but that can wait.Just how stupid is Symantec's NIS? (Scot, are you reading this? If so, please pass it back to them!) I download an update to NIS and the next time I force LiveUpdate to run, it can't even penetrate its own firewall! Turn off the Security, force LU to run, it does, turn on Security, force LU to run and now it creates a "rule" for LU.Broadly speaking, this is a regular problem with NIS. It installs updates but then forgets what apps have permission to get out, doesn't ask and so nothing happens.Thanks for all your feedback!Andy

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hkspike

Wow, NIS 04 is driving me mad! I've set up a password just to let Task Scheduler work. And then since I don't really want one, tweaked it in Tweakui for an auto-logon.I guess I should be pleased as now NetDetect does work and LiveUpdate does update. But what a lot of effort for a program that really ought to work straight out the box to be effective!(By the way, what does a result of 0x65 mean?)Andy

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linuxdude32
I guess I should be pleased as now NetDetect does work and LiveUpdate does update. But what a lot of effort for a program that really ought to work straight out the box to be effective!(By the way, what does a result of 0x65 mean?)
Welcome to Linux, errr, I mean Windows! :lol:I'm not sure where you received that "result" but it's a hexadecimal number which probably refers to a programmer's error code. In other words, it's absolutely useless to you; it's probably meant for debugging. Interestly (or not), 65 in hex is 101 in our number system.

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hkspike

Gave in, set up a password, used TweakUI to beat it and - yes - it runs.Also found out what 0x65 means: OK, it worked!Think Symantec need to head back to the basics on this one......and I hate their Spy/Adware engine. It finds about 25% and has, to date, managed to delete exactly one event.HmmmmmmAndy

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linuxdude32

Just put XP on my wife's machine (had to wait until 90 days were up before I could use it on another machine, it was already removed from my own). I'll be closely watching to see if updates happen like they're supposed to with NAV 2003. At least I got lots of suggestions if they don't. ;)

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