linuxdude32 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Hi guys!Used to post here years ago regularly and ended up involved with other things. This was a great forum for talking about issues and getting recommendations and the friendliest forum all around. Now that I've buttered you up... he's my request: For a few months I've been having issues with our internet. At least I think it's our internet. We have a setup that looks something like this:Computer 1, Computer 2 -------> Wireless Router (although we're wired right now) -----> DSL Internet modem/router -----> InternetCalling my internet provider hasn't been particularly helpful and I'm also concerned that I might have faulty Internet gear. The problems we have involve extreme lag (which I've been able to actually see through pinging and traceroutes when it occurs) to the point that our 5 Mbps connection turns into basically dialup speeds. Problems we can go hours and days before it happens again. Rebooting the modem seems to work usually but not always. This happens both on my wife's computer and mine so I don't think it's a bad network card. I've also tried replacing all the cables.So what I'd like to do is have an automated network program (willing to work to configure it) that can test pinging my wireless router, then my router, then our ISP so I can narrow down what is happening and if it's not something within our network, then I'd have logs to present to our ISP and get something done. If it is our equipment, then I can replace it.Any suggestions or tips on further troubleshooting would be appreciated! If I've posted in the wrong place, please let me know and I'll repost elsewhere.Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 http://www.pingplotter.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 http://www.pingplotter.com/ Wow! I didn't expect a reply that fast! Thanks Ross. This looks like it should fill the ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Of course that is a Windows executable and there is a freeware version:http://www.pingplotter.com/freeware.htmlAs well as the Standard and Pro versionsIn Linux, might want to try: M-Ping:http://sourceforge.net/projects/m-ping/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Of course that is a Windows executable and there is a freeware version:http://www.pingplotter.com/freeware.htmlAs well as the Standard and Pro versionsIn Linux, might want to try: M-Ping:http://sourceforge.net/projects/m-ping/ Thanks Fran! Trying out the Trial version of the Standard version right now. The Freeware version doesn't save log files. They have a very thorough tutorial and manual though so this is something I will probably end up buying. $25 isn't a bad price.Thanks for the Linux recommendation too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Yes, that's not bad if the trial proves to be as useful as it looks to be.You are welcome on the Linux version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Wireshark? http://www.wireshark.org/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urmas Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Computer 1, Computer 2 -------> Wireless Router (although we're wired right now) -----> DSL Internet modem/router -----> InternetQuestion: the connection/setup between your modem/router and wireless router? Can you elaborate a bit – how does the signal come in to the wireless router (via wan or lan)? Have you done any manual configuring on either device (e.g. bridged mode)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Wow! I didn't expect a reply that fast! Thanks Ross. This looks like it should fill the ticket.The folks over at dslreports.com use it all the time when troubleshooting bad routing paths, failed modems, etc in their connections. Glad it will do what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Question: the connection/setup between your modem/router and wireless router? Can you elaborate a bit – how does the signal come in to the wireless router (via wan or lan)? Have you done any manual configuring on either device (e.g. bridged mode)?Hi Urmas,It comes in via WAN (as far as the wireless router is concerned). The modem is something the ISP gives me to use with their service. I'm not sure what mode it is in, but because of past issues with firewalls preventing voip services from working, I've tried to simplify things by using the putting the wireless router in the DMZ. I think I also set it to use OpenDNS servers.The wireless router in is full router mode. It's an ASUS RT-N12. The only thing I changed on it it to set DNS to using the OpenDNS servers and setting QoS upload speed to 60 KB/s maximum. I've used speedtest.net to clock the speeds at about 0.6 Mbps up at the lowest, so I converted that Kbps, took off 20% (I read somewhere that DSL can't download fast if the upload is saturated so good to allow for 20% overheard) and converted to KB/s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 (edited) The folks over at dslreports.com use it all the time when troubleshooting bad routing paths, failed modems, etc in their connections. Glad it will do what you need. I should probably checking out DSL reports. I used to do bandwidth tests with them years ago when I first started online :DThis problem has been driving me crazy. I've at one time or another thought it was bad NIC, bad cable, other bad cable, other bad cable, bad switch, bad modem, bad router. We used to have just a switch connected to the DSL modem/router and it started making noise and we started having issues so I took it out and got this wireless N router. We don't really need wireless (yet) but I figured I might as well plan for the future. And of course, it seems intermittent so it's hard to source it. I'm really hopeful this should help. If it can't, I don't see what else can. At the very least, I can learn where the problem is. Edited January 16, 2011 by linuxdude32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Wireshark? http://www.wireshark.org/ Ironically, I downloaded it about an hour before I posed this question, Eric. It can help me determine what addresses are being used (to ping) when I'm not using a web browser. I should explain. My wife and I like to play on SecondLife and it's one of the areas we seem to really notice the lag. When it happens though, we do notice it often (not always) happening elsewhere like on Skype and web browsing. If it just happens in SecondLife, we should be able to find where the route is failing.Thanks for the suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Have you tried ZenMap?http://nmap.org/zenmap/Actually, upon further reflection, I don't think this app would be any good for what you're trying to do. ZenMap maps your local network. I don't think it can show you choke points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goretsky Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Hello,Perhaps the evaluation copy of Ipswitch Software's WhatsUp Gold would meet your needs?Regards,Aryeh Goretsky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Have you tried ZenMap?http://nmap.org/zenmap/Actually, upon further reflection, I don't think this app would be any good for what you're trying to do. ZenMap maps your local network. I don't think it can show you choke points. Yeah, it doesn't look good for checking for connection problems although it does look good for checking for open ports and other vulnerabilities. I can really see where this might be useful for doing other things. I'm familiar with nmap. Didn't know there was a Windows GUI version. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 router to router might mean a packet is being nat-ed out of one router only to be nat-ed out of the next.there is no way on earth that that will work.if needed,google nat,thengoogle double nat.so, see if both routers are natting.if both are, ensure you turn it off on the least powerful one, such as the one supplied by your isp.I hadn't heard of that issue before. Or how to turn off NAT. The Internet does work most of the time though. I didn't think having a router behind another router mattered. I don't know about in the US but most DSL providers here (if not all) provide router/modems to their customers and not all provide wireless ones. So I'd presume it shouldn't be a problem but maybe that's a poor presumption. But, I'll check into it - thanks. I always wondered about each router doing NAT. I presumed it wasn't a problem as long as each was on a different subnet and one was downstream from the other. The DSL modem/router is at 192.168.7.1 and the wireless router is at 192.168.1.1.To add to my troubles, I think my onboard ethernet chipset is also flaky. When I reboot my wireless router, it doesn't always come back up. I have to go into its settings, disable and re-enable it and then it comes back. I was using pingplotter tonight and have some serious lag and looked at it and I was getting ping times from 350 to 700 ms range. Ugh. I also noticed that I seem to be getting 30% packet loss which can't be good. I tried using an old NIC I had in a drawer but I think it's probably 5 or more years old and Windows 7 doesn't recognize it. Can't find drivers for anything more recent than Windows XP and I don't think they'll work.Anybody recommend a good Windows 7 (64-bit) compatible network card? Doesn't need to be Gigabyte although I suppose that would be nice.Even though this flaky chipset is probably causing more issues, I'm pretty sure it's not the source of all my problems because my wife experiences issues too. Her computer is only a year old (mine is about 3-4 years old) so that seems unlikely that we'd both have flaky network interfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Perhaps the evaluation copy of Ipswitch Software's WhatsUp Gold would meet your needs?Looks like this is more for managing larger networks. I only have a couple of computers plus a netbook. Good to know this stuff is out there if my needs ever grow though. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I hadn't heard of that issue before. Or how to turn off NAT. The Internet does work most of the time though. I didn't think having a router behind another router mattered. I don't know about in the US but most DSL providers here (if not all) provide router/modems to their customers and not all provide wireless ones. So I'd presume it shouldn't be a problem but maybe that's a poor presumption. But, I'll check into it - thanks. I always wondered about each router doing NAT. I presumed it wasn't a problem as long as each was on a different subnet and one was downstream from the other. The DSL modem/router is at 192.168.7.1 and the wireless router is at 192.168.1.1.I've seen this setup before with Verizon router/ADSL modems. In one of the cases, the customer used the modem as a modem and not its routing features. There was a way to disable the routing function. Bridge mode is the term that pops into my head, but I am not sure if it is correct. In any case, the combo device simply operated like a modem, and not a combo.Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Yes, I have seen this as well. Forgot about that...thanks Adam!Here's instructions for using the GUI on the modem/firewall/router from Verizon (Westel):How to setup Bridge Mode with New Verizon Westel GUI (DSLReports) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlim Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I too had to call Verizon when I added a wired only router to a dsl Verizon supplied modem at a business. The Tech walked me through how to put one of the pieces of hardware in bridge mode. It was so long ago that I don't remember if we set the modem or the router to bridged mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goretsky Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hello,That would likely be the DSL modem. I did the same thing last night to my brother's Verizon DSL connection in order to connect a router so he could have wireless Internet access on his home network.Regards,Aryeh Goretsky I too had to call Verizon when I added a wired only router to a dsl Verizon supplied modem at a business. The Tech walked me through how to put one of the pieces of hardware in bridge mode. It was so long ago that I don't remember if we set the modem or the router to bridged mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mac Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Anybody recommend a good Windows 7 (64-bit) compatible network card? Doesn't need to be Gigabyte although I suppose that would be nice.I had problems with the onboard NIC on my 3 year old Gigabyte MB and bought an Intel NIC to use:NewEgg page.When I clean installed WIN7 Pro 64bit, WIN7 recognized and installed the driver for the NIC. A little pricey, but, you get what you pay for... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 I've seen this setup before with Verizon router/ADSL modems. In one of the cases, the customer used the modem as a modem and not its routing features. There was a way to disable the routing function. Bridge mode is the term that pops into my head, but I am not sure if it is correct. In any case, the combo device simply operated like a modem, and not a combo.I'm not totally sure but I think I might be in bridged mode already. Honestly, as you can see by the screenshot, this is probably the most confusing and ugliest setup pages out there, but it looks like it's showing that it is in bridge mode:Uploaded with ImageShack.usI can easily set to my wireless router to WAP mode which turns off the router features in it but I'm not sure that I can connect anything wired to it once I do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linuxdude32 Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 I had problems with the onboard NIC on my 3 year old Gigabyte MB and bought an Intel NIC to use:NewEgg page.When I clean installed WIN7 Pro 64bit, WIN7 recognized and installed the driver for the NIC. A little pricey, but, you get what you pay for...Oops, I meant to say that it doesn't need to be a gigabit NIC. Not worried about the brand particularly as long as it's not a cheap card. Still though, this ones looks good although I'm not sure if my motherboard has PCI-E 1x slots. Will have to check. Thanks for the recommendation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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