BarryB Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Can't help..but isn't "Fair and Balanced" a subjective term in it's own right..doesn't that depend on the filters of the person receiving the info...My point is people (being human) will give greater value to whatever reflects their opinions...after all, the media ..either left or right is looking for viewers, readership...Point is we hear what we want to hear...we haven't changed in years....all media present their version of the news...we select based on our own point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I have no hard feelings, I said his book was on the NY Times Best Sellers List, I didn't say it was number one. It has only been out about 3 weeks, it will get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 BarryB,You are absolutely correct. Look at the ratings, Fox News is Number One. I guess that has something to do with it's content being Fair and Balanced.I report you decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Actually, I think it would have more to do with ratings than anything else.IMHO, there are NO "fair and balanced" news casts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 I have no hard feelings, I said his book was on the NY Times Best Sellers List, I didn't say it was number one. It has only been out about 3 weeks, it will get there. i just thought you'd have hard feelings since Michael Moore's Book is at Number 1. So if a 'talentless' author such as Moore (your words, not mine) is outselling Fox News' number one guy... well, you get the drift.as for 'Fair and Balanced', that's what this whole thread is about. I just wish O'Reilley and Fox News had the guts to just come out and admit that they have a Conservative Right-wing bias, instead of preaching "Fair and Balanced." Fox News Channel's "Special Report with Brit Hume" (11/5/01) recently wondered why journalists should bother covering civilian deaths at all. "The question I have is," said Hume, "civilian casualties are historically, by definition, a part of war, really. Should they be as big news as they've been?" Fox News Channel's Bill O'Reilly, the channel's most popular host, declared on his September 17 broadcast that if the Afghan government did not extradite Osama bin Laden to the U.S., "the U.S. should bomb the Afghan infrastructure to rubble-- the airport, the power plants, their water facilities, and the roads." O'Reilly went on to say:"This is a very primitive country. And taking out their ability to exist day to day will not be hard. Remember, the people of any country are ultimately responsible for the government they have. The Germans were responsible for Hitler. The Afghans are responsible for the Taliban. We should not target civilians. But if they don't rise up against this criminal government, they starve, period." O'Reilly added that in Iraq, "their infrastructure must be destroyed and the population made to endure yet another round of intense pain.... Maybe then the people there will finally overthrow Saddam." If Libya's Moammar Khadafy does not relinquish power and go into exile, "we bomb his oil facilities, all of them. And we mine the harbor in Tripoli. Nothing goes in, nothing goes out. We also destroy all the airports in Libya. Let them eat sand." The Geneva Conventions (Protocol 1, Part IV, Chapter III, Article 54) are very clear that "starvation of civilians as a method of warfare is prohibited." They specify that "objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population," including water and food supplies, are not legal military targets. Violating these strictures, which are legally binding on the U.S., would constitute a war crime, and might be considered a crime against humanity.John Gibson of Fox News Channel (12/15/00) would rather not know what really happened in Florida: "Is this a case where knowing the facts actually would be worse than not knowing? I mean, should we burn those ballots, preserve them in amber, or shred them? George Bush is going to be president. And who needs to know that he's not a legitimate president? Al Gore? Jesse Jackson? His political opponents? How does it do any good for the country to find out that, by somebody's count, the wrong guy is president?"oh, and about the "We are Number One!" attitude,Since the election, Fox has run a newspaper ad boasting that it attracted 6.8 million viewers Election Night, making it the "Number 1" news network for election coverage. The ad has rightly enraged rival networks CNN and MSNBC: Fox is cheating by counting not only the 2.4 million who watched its cable channel Election Night, but also the 4.4 million who tuned into its network broadcast.yes, they really sound 'fair and balanced' to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 The whole concept of fair and balanced is a farce in the news.News will always be slanted .... no one can have all the facts from all sides. Nor do they want to.This is true of what is called right wing and left wing, no matter how far to the left or right you go.Nothing new, it has been going on forever, since man has been on this planet, even before any written language was around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nlinecomputers Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 (edited) Prelude,No treaty is leagally binding. To what authority can you file and sue for breach of contract? The UN? Uh that is a treaty too. Isn't the US withholding payments from the UN? What are they going to do sue us? War Crime trials are a joke. Show trials for the winners. What county in war hasn't abused the Geneva conventions? We bombed plenty of mostly civilan targets in WWII. You do it to terrorize the enemy and break there will to continue. Terrorist target civilans for the same reason. Sure it would be a perfect world if we all had wars by rote and lined up in little rows and only shot each other soldiers. It only takes one guy that is a ruthless ******* to upset that apple cart and only a fool tries to fight by "the rules" when the other guy isn't playing by that rule.EDIT: Pacifist statement removed. Please keep it to the topic, not attacks on fellow members. Edited November 7, 2003 by LilBambi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 nathan, that was exactly my point. How can a network claim to be "Fair and Balanced" yet show only the viewpoint from the right-wing conservative that is screaming "Kill them ALL!" to his TV? I'd have respect in Fox News only if they'd at least ADMIT to being right wing. Here's is what Hume, one of the main guys at Fox News, had to say: "The intention here is to do a broadcast people can trust," Hume said in early fox news promotional spots. Hume told a reporter for Electronic Media, ''It's a trick to be interesting and to be neutral and balanced. We think we've got that.''now how can you believe ANYTHING that is said on Fox News is they can stand there and say such things with a straight face, and then bring you Bill O'Reilley, the biggest gun-ho conservative on the planet?want more proof they're clearly right wing?Fox daytime anchor David Asman is formerly of the right-wing Wall Street Journal editorial page and the conservative Manhattan Institute. The host of Fox News Sunday is Tony Snow, a conservative columnist and former chief speechwriter for the first Bush administration. Eric Breindel, previously the editorial-page editor of the right-wing New York Post, was senior vice president of Fox's parent company, News Corporation, until his death in 1998; Fox News Channel's senior vice president is John Moody, a long-time journalist known for his staunch conservative views. Fox's managing editor is Brit Hume, a veteran TV journalist and contributor to the conservative American Spectator and Weekly Standard magazines. Its top-rated talk show is hosted by Bill O'Reilly, a columnist for the conservative WorldNetDaily.com and a registered Republican (that is, until a week before the Washington Post published an article revealing his party registration--12/13/00).Failing to brand Fox News as unabashedly conservative is like saying Trent Lott is not a Right-Wing Republican. but bud, nathan, ya lost me on the 'war crimes' shpeil. surely you're not saying that the whole idea of war crimes are a joke and should be thrown out the window? And war crimes have nothing to do with US refusing to pay UN dues; war crimes were agreed to by most nations, US included, at the Geneva convention in switzerland. if someone breaks those crimes, then UN can decided to sanction that country (unless that country is US, or Russia, or China, or Israel, coz they all have veto powers... yes, Israel has veto power too, just not directly) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Ok, I will admit that FNC leans more to the right, if you concede that CNN and MSNBC and CBS, ABC and NBC lean to the left.I have no idea what The Geneva Covention has to do with this topic.And as far as Michael Moore, I deleted that post as it was off topic. Actually I deleted three of my posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 President Clinton withheld the dues to The UN. President Bush is the one that Had them paid. If were up to me, I would throw the UN out of New York. Maybe they can find a home in France. The UN is a worthless , irrelevant organization.BTW I know this is off topic but it is a response to the post by nlinecomputers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 Ok, I will admit that FNC leans more to the right, if you concede that CNN and MSNBC and CBS, ABC and NBC lean to the left. ok ok, so we can negotiate an end to this thread, i;ll throw MSNBC, NBC and ABC, but let's keep CBS and CNN in the 'slightly-to-the-right' field. CNN has Paul Wolfowitz, let's not forget. i think lil'bambi and havnblast said it best, that everyone has their bias right / left lean. i dont think any media has a true "Fair and Balanced" news report out there, most especially Fox News.BBC is pretty D*** close to balanced reporting though. during the height of the Iraq War, their reports had about 50% coverage of reporters imbedded with army troops, and 50% reporters in the Iraqi streets. one particular scarred-for-life scene was when they had live feed of aftermath after that stray bomb hit an open air market on morning. they were quite graphic, and showed a full uncensored view of war's ugly side. i had to turn it off after a bit, almost brought out tears in me. and yes, i've seen the torture pics from saddam and such, but 2 wrongs dont make a right, ya know? i'll forever respect BBC for having such guts to show it live and uncensored. there was no commentary, just camera filming the destruction. we need more media like that over here, and less "24-hr news coverage of Chandra" or "24-hr news coverage of OJ simpson". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Amen Prelude...trying seeing war up close and personal...there are no winners in war...the sad part is sometimes there are no winners in peace either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 President Clinton withheld the dues to The UN. President Bush is the one that Had them paid. If were up to me, I would throw the UN out of New York. Maybe they can find a home in France. The UN is a worthless , irrelevant organization.thats one thing we can agree on. I too feel UN is useless. either make it more powerful and give it power over ALL countries (which is NEVER going to happen) or reduce them to be just be the administration and mediators between nations. It started off as a good plan, to prevent another World War, but the whole Veto power struggle is just plain stupid. It shouldve been setup up with NO veto power, but with each country having x number of votes, depending on their power/standing. Veto screws it all up, but you also cant have one US vote or one CHINA vote equal one vote from Fiji Islands, ya know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeTee Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 This thread is finally enough to pull me out of my lurking mode.........I don't think, as a civilian public, we will ever be entitled to truth in the "news", bias left right or center..... Before and during the first Gulf war, I was reading Department of the Defense (classified) SECRET news on a daily basis, as well as being tuned into CNN a good many hours of the day. The contrast between what was being DOD released news and Network "news" were worlds apart. NOTHING being reported on the networks was actual news. Everything that was important (real news) was classified.Another product that was released daily is the official DIA “speculation" papers, also classified SECRET , where "they" gave probable scenario's and all the considerations to each scenario. Mind blowing stuff for the relatively young man I was at the time. Fortunately, I never had a TOP SECRET clearance; I don't think I would ever want to read about what’s REALLYREALLY going on in the world. SECRET was scary enough.The same holds true when I was personally involved in some incidents. The event I was involved in was a grossly different event than what was reported in the press.Why do you think the have a "Press Secretary" and "public relations" programs in the Government and Military. These are dedicated programs the control the flow of information to the press.Here is a news summary page that uses multiple sources to build a story as well as has links to various alternate news sources. Go there with some time on your hands.The News Networks have unfortunately become the propaganda machine of the government, as we were taught that the Pravda was for the Soviet Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Yes.During Desert Shield/Storm .We always got a kick out of what the news said we were doing compared to what we were actually doing...even more miss-leading was the movies...oh man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prelude76 Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 well even with this one, i saw LIVE shots of the BBC footage how that missile went astray and killed dozens in a market, and the camera was even filming the remains of the shell of the missile, big Lockheed Martin stamp on it with serial number, and later that day, the press conference at first DENIED it was their missile and that is was probably an Iraqi anti-air missile that went astray. they retracted that statement once BBC ran a story on the lie, but it makes you wonder how much other stuff was all made up. thanks for the site, beetee. its funny that in Michael Moore's list of news sources, i visit/read most of those. (Cursor, CommonDreams, Guardian, BBC). But i think Cursor has a bit too much far left stories, when Democracts arent really 'good guys' in my eyes either. (remember Clinton and Kosovo bombing?)And about the current war, i just pray for both sides that it gets resolved quickly, as it seems to be getting nastier there every day (another chopper went down this morning). its sad how many of those US soldiers are just from reserves, and their losing out on their jobs and families and mortgage payments while risking their lives daily. and i'm not saying 'bring them home right now" either, coz leaving iraq at this stage would create a vacuum 10 times bigger than when soviets pulled out of afghanistan. the thing i wish would happen is longer-term plan for US to fully move out of ENTIRE middle east, and to ditch reliance on oil at same time. i know, i know, never gonna happen, but i can dream, right?anyways, i'm signing off for the weekend. gonna be tied up. picking up a ring and gonna plan a surprise proposal for my GF sometime soon, (i guess its SOME surprise if i'm posting it on the net ). just remember, keep it at least 'loosely' tied to topic of media bias. and as jeber sayz, 'be civil unto each other'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeTee Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Yes.During Desert Shield/Storm .We always got a kick out of what the news said we were doing compared to what we were actually doing...even more miss-leading was the movies...oh manMovies, Oh man is right! ......as a Scope Dope/C4I type (command and control mixed with intelligence, for you civvies), watching any movie dealing with Radar, Satellites, NORAD, fighter pilots, etc, it is extremely hard to watch and not scream!!, Think Iron Eagle (OMG), War Games and the like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeTee Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 anyways, i'm signing off for the weekend. gonna be tied up. picking up a ring and gonna plan a surprise proposal for my GF sometime soon, (i guess its SOME surprise if i'm posting it on the net ). just remember, keep it at least 'loosely' tied to topic of media bias. and as jeber sayz, 'be civil unto each other'. Congrats!!!! and GOOD LUCK. DOn't be nervous! HA!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Yes.During Desert Shield/Storm .We always got a kick out of what the news said we were doing compared to what we were actually doing...even more miss-leading was the movies...oh manMovies, Oh man is right! ......as a Scope Dope/C4I type (command and control mixed with intelligence, for you civvies), watching any movie dealing with Radar, Satellites, NORAD, fighter pilots, etc, it is extremely hard to watch and not scream!!, Think Iron Eagle (OMG), War Games and the like You mean radars don't ping... ..I know I can't watch them either(especially if they have anything do with CIC..not without laughing my butt off Prelude: Congrats..or congrats to the GF,,,both...have a great weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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