Does installing the upgrade version of Win7 invalidate Windows XP/Vist

[Eric Legge]

Hi all,You have to perform a clean installation of Windows 7 when using the upgrade version to upgrade from Windows XP.But, if you install the Upgrade version of Windows 7 Home Premium on a Windows XP Pro system on a different partition, does doing so invalidate your Windows XP Pro license and make it impossible to have a dual-boot system unless you buy a new XP license?No one on the web seems to know for sure. The licence agreement for Win7 says that this is the case. If you upgrade from Windows XP to Win7, you lose Windows XP.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Eric Legge

[Guest LilBambi]

If it does, that would be stupid. Especially since many are suggesting that you leave XP on another partition in case it's needed for non-conforming apps. That would really suck. But I don't think Microsoft would be that foolish...I would hope.

[mac]

Hi all,You have to perform a clean installation of Windows 7 when using the upgrade version to upgrade from Windows XP.But, if you install the Upgrade version of Windows 7 Home Premium on a Windows XP Pro system on a different partition, does doing so invalidate your Windows XP Pro license and make it impossible to have a dual-boot system unless you buy a new XP license?No one on the web seems to know for sure. The licence agreement for Win7 says that this is the case. If you upgrade from Windows XP to Win7, you lose Windows XP.

Hi Eric,I know that wasn't the case with Vista. I have one machine dual-booting XP and Vista Ultimate upgrade, and another dual-booting XP and Vista Business upgrade.The logistical nightmare of MS trying to invalidate XP or Vista keys when WIN7 upgrade is installed would be unimaginable.I'll be installing WIN7 Home Premium upgrade on both PC's next week in multiboot configs, and will report back here on how it went.

[Eric Legge]

Thanks mac.I also have a dual-boot XP/Vista laptop. It came with Windows XP Pro and I applied for the free Vista upgrade, which I installed on a separate partition without losing Windows XP.But if that is not the case with Win7 I will not be a happy bunny, because I want a dual-boot system using Win7 Home Premium. I don't want to have to buy Win7 Pro in order to be able to runs its built-in copy of Windows XP in a virtual machine. Win7 Home Premium does not have that feature, so maybe this is a deliberate policy by Microsoft to force users of XP to get the Pro version of Win7 if they want a dual-boot system.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Eric Legge

[zlim]

Make two partitions and clone your XP into the 2nd partition. Do the clean install on the cloned version of XP.I know Vista and Win 7 use a differnt type booting system so you might need some sort of 3rd party app to allow you to see both installs to select which OS to run.You have a valid key for both Oses so I don't see how MS could possibly said the key you have for XP is now invalid since it is still on the same computer it has always been installed on.

[lewmur]

Make two partitions and clone your XP into the 2nd partition. Do the clean install on the cloned version of XP.I know Vista and Win 7 use a differnt type booting system so you might need some sort of 3rd party app to allow you to see both installs to select which OS to run.You have a valid key for both Oses so I don't see how MS could possibly said the key you have for XP is now invalid since it is still on the same computer it has always been installed on.

I doubt seriously if MS will allow you to upgrade your cake and eat it too. Isn't that why they have the virtual XP app in Win 7? If I were going to buy Win 7, I'd buy the upgrade version and do exactly what you suggest. But I don't think it is strictly legal. Edited October 27, 2009 by lewmur

[zlim]

Personally, I've done this in the past. I have an HP laptop that came with ME installed. I purchased an XP upgrade CD from HP for $30. I ran both Oses on that laptop. I decided I really didn't like XP because I had to remove the recording software that I liked, Adaptec, and install Record Now in it place.Disclaimer: after looking over Paul Thurrott's article, the upgrade CD/DVD seems to have undergone major changes after XP. So what worked with ME and XP might be trying to compare apples to oranges. At this point, I guess no one knows the answer until it is attempted.

Edited October 28, 2009 by zlim

[lewmur]

Personally, I've done this in the past. I have an HP laptop that came with ME installed. I purchased an XP upgrade CD from HP for $30. I ran both Oses on that laptop. I decided I really didn't like XP because I had to remove the recording software that I liked, Adaptec, and install Record Now in it place.Disclaimer: after looking over Paul Thurrott's article, the upgrade CD/DVD seems to have undergone major changes after XP. So what worked with ME and XP might be trying to compare apples to oranges. At this point, I guess no one knows the answer until it is attempted.

I have no doubt it can be done. That wasn't the question. The question was did installing the upgrade invalidate the XP license. I think that it does.

[zlim]

There is a poster at Lockergnome who was dual-booting XP and win7 RC. He installed win 7 and thought he'd lose the dual boot. It is still there.http://help.lockergnome.com/general/find-f...opict64001.html 4th post in the thread.He doesn't specify how he installed Win 7; perhaps he did a custom install on the 7rc partition but I never saw this mentioned. All I see covered is 2K, XP and Vista.

[kkehoe]

Microsoft's position has always been that installing "upgrade" software invalidates the license of the software that qualifies you for that upgrade. You will find this paragraph in all operating system licenses:

15. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from.

Sure, you can do the various things discussed here and they won't erase/break/deactivate your XP/Vista install but according to Microsoft it's not legal.Kevin

[Tushman]

Microsoft's position has always been that installing "upgrade" software invalidates the license of the software that qualifies you for that upgrade. You will find this paragraph in all operating system licenses:Sure, you can do the various things discussed here and they won't erase/break/deactivate your XP/Vista install but according to Microsoft it's not legal.Kevin

Let's say I had WinXP for 8 years and only activated twice over it's lifetime, then I am still entitled to one more activation online after a fresh isntall. (3 online re-activations maximum). The number of "re-activations" is not even the issue here. But I am bringing it up as an example because by your explanation above, it seems as though you are saying I would have go out and purchase another license of WinXP since the upgrade invalidates the first license.According to your interpretation, if I did not like Windows 7 for whatever reason and wanted to revert to my previous WinXP installation, I'm not entitled to do so. Sounds a bit unreasonable and crazy to me. I'm not so sure your interpreting that correctly. Where is the link you got that from?I remember back in the Win98 days people making a big fuss over WinXP and the new "features" that came with it. If I remember correctly from that conversation (on another forum) that Microsoft gives you upto 30 days to try out the new operating system. You can look at it as a trial period to see if you like the new operating system or not. If that still holds true today, then I should be able to go back to my previous installation of WinXP without breaking anything. Edited October 29, 2009 by Tushman

[lewmur]

Let's say I had WinXP for 8 years and only activated twice over it's lifetime, then I am still entitled to one more activation online after a fresh isntall. (3 online re-activations maximum). The number of "re-activations" is not even the issue here. But I am bringing it up as an example because by your explanation above, it seems as though you are saying I would have go out and purchase another license of WinXP since the upgrade invalidates the first license.According to your interpretation, if I did not like Windows 7 for whatever reason and wanted to revert to my previous WinXP installation, I'm not entitled to do so. Sounds a bit unreasonable and crazy to me. I'm not so sure your interpreting that correctly. Where is the link you got that from?I remember back in the Win98 days people making a big fuss over WinXP and the new "features" that came with it. If I remember correctly from that conversation (on another forum) that Microsoft gives you upto 30 days to try out the new operating system. You can look at it as a trial period to see if you like the new operating system or not. If that still holds true today, then I should be able to go back to my previous installation of WinXP without breaking anything.

Please read what he said. It is not just an interpretation it is the legal truth. You can NOT have your upgrade an the old version too and still be legal. If you revert to the old version, then you aren't running both. So that is legal. But installing both at the same time violates the EULA. Will MS send the police to arrest for doing that? Of course not. Will it even trigger the WGA? No it won't. Does that make it legal. No it doesn't.Like I said earlier, if I were going to purchase Win 7, I'd purchase an upgrade version and install it "dual boot." But I'd do so knowing full well that I was violating the EULA. Personally, I don't give a ****** about MS's EULA. :hysterical:edit: When I say it is illegal, what I really mean is that it violates MS's EULA. But since I don't consider MS's EULA to be legally binding, then I don't consider violating it to be actually illegal. Can anyone cite a case where MS has tested its EULA in court? Edited October 29, 2009 by lewmur

[kkehoe]

Let's say I had WinXP for 8 years and only activated twice over it's lifetime, then I am still entitled to one more activation online after a fresh isntall. (3 online re-activations maximum). The number of "re-activations" is not even the issue here. But I am bringing it up as an example because by your explanation above, it seems as though you are saying I would have go out and purchase another license of WinXP since the upgrade invalidates the first license.According to your interpretation, if I did not like Windows 7 for whatever reason and wanted to revert to my previous WinXP installation, I'm not entitled to do so. Sounds a bit unreasonable and crazy to me. I'm not so sure your interpreting that correctly. Where is the link you got that from?I remember back in the Win98 days people making a big fuss over WinXP and the new "features" that came with it. If I remember correctly from that conversation (on another forum) that Microsoft gives you upto 30 days to try out the new operating system. You can look at it as a trial period to see if you like the new operating system or not. If that still holds true today, then I should be able to go back to my previous installation of WinXP without breaking anything.

The original poster wants to dual boot his "upgrade" operating system and the operating system that qualifies him for that upgrade. My answer applies to that situation. You're presenting something entirely different. The information posted in the quote comes from the EULA on my XP computer although I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to find an online copy @ M$.

[bigaldoc]

I hope I don't overly complicate this thread but I just wanted to comment about what I've done and what my situation is. I'm gonna say this without knowledge of any under the covers "legalise" that might jump up and bite me in the future! I have had, for some time, a triple-boot system of XP, Vista Ultimate and Windows 7 RC, managed by Vista Boot Pro. I ordered my Windows 7 four months ago when MS had the half-price special making the rounds and I received the Win 7 Pro Upgrade yesterday.The first thing I did was to quick-format the Win 7 RC partition. Then I booted the Vista OS, thinking that if installing Win 7 DID in fact invalidate my Vista, that would be OK with me. I ran a custom install on the Win 7 DVD from WITHIN Vista and it went as smooth as a baby's behind except for a couple of drivers I had to go looking for. When I was finished, Windows 7 validated online and I'm continuing to work on installing stuff.After reading this thread, I just now booted Vista and ran the Windows Updates which installed six updates successfully. The Vista system is STILL validated and there seems to be no problem in running any of the three OSs. Hope this doesn't blow anyone away.

[lewmur]

After reading this thread, I just now booted Vista and ran the Windows Updates which installed six updates successfully. The Vista system is STILL validated and there seems to be no problem in running any of the three OSs. Hope this doesn't blow anyone away.

That is pretty much what I would expect. But it doesn't mean it is legal. Read the EULA.

[striker]

Well, personally I would just do a clean install. No crap about legal or not, you're entitled to have as much OS's on your machine as you wish and have room for. And all OS's will work like before and all will be legal if and only if they were legally obtained to start with. So. Now go for it lawyers. Back here where I live the judge would skin every lawyer out there alive in public when trying to convince anybody the above would be illegal.

[Urmas]

Back here where I live the judge would skin every lawyer out there alive in public when trying to convince anybody the above would be illegal.

Same here. But... "The worms crawl in and the worms crawl out...":

For the past several months, Windows 7 testers have been asking Microsoft for technical details on Windows 7 upgrades, but have heard nothing but crickets from Redmond. So Microsoft bloggers have taken matters into their own hands by publishing detailed workarounds for clean installing Windows 7 using upgrade media, something Microsoft says is illegal.On Tuesday, Eric Ligman, global partner experience lead in Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Group, suggested that these bloggers are advocating behavior that violates Microsoft's software licensing terms. Paul Thurrott, author of the Supersite For Windows blog, fired back at Microsoft on Thursday and said the company should have clearly documented the issue months ago."I'm not endorsing piracy. Obviously. I'm just trying to support the millions of people that Microsoft fooled into pre-ordering Windows 7 by offering steep discounts, only to discover later that the Upgrade version they purchased unknowingly might not actually install properly," Thurrott wrote in a blog post.

http://www.crn.com/software/221300023;jses...HPSKH4ATMY32JVNBut... hmm... auch aus Steinen, die dir in den Weg gelegt werden, kannst du etwas Schönes bauen.

[Guest LilBambi]

"...yourself out of stones, that are put you into the way, you can construct something beautiful."OK, so I think the free german translators are maybe not too good?

[Urmas]

OK, so I think the free german translators are maybe not too good?

You think? Goes something like this: you can create something nice even with stones that are put (think "throw a spanner in the works") on your way.

[lewmur]

That is pretty much what I would expect. But it doesn't mean it is legal. Read the EULA.

Just read this on Computer World.

In order to use upgrade media to install Windows 7 on a blank hard drive, users must abide by the operating system's EULA, or end-user licensing agreement (download PDF). "To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from," the EULA states.

Pretty much confirms what I've been saying. Notice the use of the word "may." I doesn't say you cannot. You've already proved that you can. It says that you may not. Which means you don't have legal permission to do so. You can read the entire article here. Edited October 30, 2009 by lewmur

[Guest LilBambi]

LOL! Yeah, that makes a lot more sense :hysterical:A very good one in fact.

[Eric Legge]

Since (with the Upgrade version) you have to install Win7 over a genuine installation of Windows XP, I just restored a full backup of XP to a new hard drive and then installed Win7 over it from within Windows XP, but you can also do it by booting from the installation disc. Win7 creates the boot manager that provides the options to boot an earlier version of Windows (XP) or Win7. The Win7 setup doesn't report back to Microsoft which installation of XP was overwritten, so the original installation remains active.As the linked story posted above this post says, it is legal to do this if you have both an OEM or retail XP licence for the computer that you are installing Win7 on.

Edited November 3, 2009 by Eric Legge

[lewmur]

Since (with the Upgrade version) you have to install Win7 over a genuine installation of Windows XP, I just restored a full backup of XP to a new hard drive and then installed Win7 over it from within Windows XP, but you can also do it by booting from the installation disc. Win7 creates the boot manager that provides the options to boot an earlier version of Windows (XP) or Win7. The Win7 setup doesn't report back to Microsoft which installation of XP was overwritten, so the original installation remains active.As the linked story posted above this post says, it is legal to do this if you have both an OEM or retail XP licence for the computer that you are installing Win7 on.

Did you mean both a retail AND an OEM? Obviously, if you have two licenses for XP, upgrading one of them does not invalidate the other. But if you only have one XP license, then upgrading it does make it illegal to continue using the XP that you used for the upgrade even though WGA doesn't detect it as being illegal. Edited November 3, 2009 by lewmur

[Peachy]

Actually this is only true of the OEM version of a previous operating system. The OEM license is tied to the first computer it is installed on which has been activated on that computer. With retail versions, you are allowed to move the operating system to another computer, IF it is removed from the previous computer it was installed on. That's always been the case with retail versions of Microsoft operating systems, which is why they are more expensive than the OEM version. And, practically, you don't upgrade Windows 7 over XP; it's technically impossible as you need to do a clean install. There's no check in the upgrade version for a previous operating system as already explained by Paul Thurrott. Even Microsoft acknowledges this as they tell you as long as you possess a legitimate copy of an older operating system (it need not be installed anywhere) you may use the upgrade version of Windows 7. Ed Bott has a good description of the whole shambles of a mess: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=1505&tag=content;col2

[lewmur]

Actually this is only true of the OEM version of a previous operating system. ...

I don't understand what you are saying. What is only true? What the OP asked was if he could still legitimately dual boot the old XP who's license he used as the legal basis for the Win 7 upgrade. The upgrade's EULA says no he can't.I would think that an OEM version of XP, from another computer, wouldn't even legally qualify for a Win7 upgrade even if you did stop using it. Edited November 3, 2009 by lewmur

[Peachy]

What I mean is that the upgrade operating system invalidates (I won't use the term illegal because the EULA is not legislation, which illegal implies) the OEM version. The OEM version can no longer be used anywhere. The retail version, on the other hand can be installed on another computer. I could be wrong on this last point but I recall reading somewhere that Microsoft would allow the retail version to be transferable because it is not tied to a particular PC and it still qualifies you for the retail upgrade of a newer operating system. There is no such beast as an OEM upgrade version so there's no issue there.

[lewmur]

What I mean is that the upgrade operating system invalidates (I won't use the term illegal because the EULA is not legislation, which illegal implies) the OEM version. The OEM version can no longer be used anywhere. The retail version, on the other hand can be installed on another computer. I could be wrong on this last point but I recall reading somewhere that Microsoft would allow the retail version to be transferable because it is not tied to a particular PC and it still qualifies you for the retail upgrade of a newer operating system. There is no such beast as an OEM upgrade version so there's no issue there.

If you read the article I linked in reply #11, I think it is very clear that you cannot use the XP version even if it was a retail version. Here is the pertinent quote from the EULA;

15. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from.

[Guest LilBambi]

Ed Bott has an article Clean install with Windows 7 Upgrade Media? Get the Facts!(Nov. 2, 2009)

Last week I complained about Microsoft’s shoddy documentation of how its upgrade procedures are supposed to work. I’m delighted to report that I got a tremendous and immediate response from within Microsoft, offering assistance in my testing and also promising to clean up and expand their documentation. I spent most of the weekend working on a table that I’ll publish later this week. I’m also testing various upgrade scenarios to see which ones work and which require a workaround.Meanwhile, an argument that should have died ages ago has reared its head again. If you purchase a discounted upgrade edition of Windows 7, can you use it to perform a clean installation of the operating system on a PC that doesn’t currently have Windows installed?The answer is really simple. If you qualify for an upgrade license, then yes, you can use any number of workarounds to install the operating system legally. If you don’t qualify for an upgrade license, then those same workarounds might technically succeed, but your license is not valid. Will you get away with it? Probably. But if you’re running a business, you run the risk that an employee will turn you in to the Business Software Alliance, which could lead to an audit, civil charges, and eventually some stiff penalties.

BOLD emphasis mine.Very good article, btw.

[Guest LilBambi]

I also agree with the title on Adrian Kingsley's first comment on the article, "Win licensing is a mess ..."

[Eric Legge]

This whole situation is ridiclous. It would be the right policy to adopt to allow users with a genuine installation of Windows XP on desktop or laptop PC to use the Upgrade version of Win7 and keep a dual-boot system - because doing so requires a clean install of Win7 and means that users will have to spend hours or even days moving their settings and files and reinstalling their XP apps and utilities, which might might not work in Win7.When I installed a backup of XP to a new hard drive on a desktop PC that was running a retail copy of XP Pro and then installed Win7 Home Premium Upgrade to that hard drive, it installed Win7 over that installation, leaving many of the folders that were in XP intact and the setup created an accessible Windows.old file that contained all of the folders and files from the XP install - My Documents, photos, downloads - the lot.

Edited November 4, 2009 by Eric Legge