Epson...

[DannySmurf]

Alright, I've had it with Epson. I just bought a new cartridge for my printer about two weeks ago. Since I haven't used the cartridge since the day I bought it (two weeks ago), now the heads have somehow become SO CLOGGED that I had to clean them FIVE TIMES just to get a page out that wasn't full of gaps.... which used nearly half of the cartridge just for that (plus the 1/5th of the cartridge the printer consumes to "charge" the cartridge -- whatever the **** that means -- when you first put it in). Total cost for the two pages I've printed since I bought the cartridge: $15.00 plus tax.And now that the heads are finally clean, the cartridge is leaking. There are ink driblets all over everything I print. So I'm right back where I started, and this time the only solution is to buy a completely new cartridge (which isn't really a solution because these things, for whatever reason, start randomly leaking if you don't use them for more than a few days).I'm never buying anything from this company again... and I'm extremly anxious to smash my printer in my driveway, as soon as I get a new one.So can someone recommend a better brand?--Danny Smurf

[greengeek]

I have a two year old Lexmark. I refill the cartridges myself. The printer was packed for about six months when we moved house awhile ago and when finally used, the first page came out perfectly. So much for those people who say to use the printer every few days. I'd buy another Lexmark but not until this one dies.

[muckshifter]

Funny about "personal preferences" and printers ... Lexmark, Ugh, and the Epson cartridge issue has always been the same - print a page off every hour or your cartridge heads clog up.HP are just as bad - which CC shall I use that’s cot some credit left, at least I'll get a month to pay for it. (if I buy it today )Printer manufactures still ignore please to reduce the cost of cartridges. I have three printers - 1 HP P1000 photo printer, 1HP 720 and a Brother HL Laser printer. The laser cartridge lasts for ever and it get well used ... now if I could just afford a Colour Laser.

[mrainey]

I've seen the clogging problem with several Epsons. Never had or heard of any problems with HP. My current Canon is so-so.

[teacher]

Selecting a printer is a tough decision. It is also very personal. I have had a lot of different printers over the years, both at home and in the classroom or office. Right now I keep 5 printers up and running. Of the five, four are HPs. They tend to be my favorite brand. Over the years I have had an Oki, a Canon, a few Lexmark and a lot of HP. My very first printer was the Oki, which was back in the days of daisy wheels. It printed just like the old IBM selectric. That printer just kept going until I put it in a garage sale. It became obsolete as we moved to graphics on our computers.My favorite home printer was the HP Laserjet 3. I bought that one in 81 or 82. I had ordered a Laserjet 2 at work and the military replaced it with the 3 since it came out after I placed my order and before it was purchased. I had to teach the computer how to print on it by creating the driver. I liked that one so much I bought a Laserjet 3 for home. I used that for 10 years. Of that ten, the first 8 were exclusively that printer. Then I felt I wanted color and added an HP inkjet to my printing capability. In that ten years I used several cases of paper but I only replaced the cartridge twice – at bout $80 each time. When I passed it on, the electronics on it said it had used only 10% of the life expectancy.I have had 2 HP inkjets at home. Both ran without any problems for a long time. I currently have the 722. It is getting old but it still works. If a cartridge gets to where it does not print in all 3 colors, I go run it under hot water for a minute and all is fine. I did refill the cartridges for a while, but had one leak after a few weeks and it was a mess to clean up. I gave up on that.I also have a Canon at home that my husband purchased. He read reviews somewhere and decided that was best. It goes through cartridges like crazy – he probably does not print 100 sheets a year but he has had to replace them already. They are cheaper cartridges but they do not last very long. It comes with four different cartridges but they do not sell them separately. You have to buy them all together so there is no cost savings.At work I have an HP Laserjet 2200 networked, a 830CXI, and a 950. I have retired two printers in the HP 500-600 range this year. They just died. Those were probably 4 or 5 years old. In my last school, I had a HP Businessjet 2200 that was sweet. It did require four different cartridges – one for each color and four additional components, but I could do quite a bit of printing before replacing. I can’t tell you how much I did on that. I even printed graduation programs in color and such because we did not have anything better for color printing…..The bottom line, printers are very individual. I would suggest: ZD net comparison guide as a place to look at prices and comparisons. I think that is the follow on to the old computershopper.com web site. Good luck!

[ChrisP]

As has been said already, the choice of printer is a matter of personal preference. However, there are some things that should be considered when making that choice.First off, remember that most printers aimed at the consumer market (as opposed to the "office" or "business" market) are almost, all things considered, break-even deals for the manufacturers. What they count on is the ongoing sales of supplies -- mainly ink cartridges. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but you should be aware that there are two approaches taken regarding ink cartridges -- the "ink tank" approach and the "print head" approach.Before I go any further, I should mention that I do not recommend refilling ink cartridges with aftermarket inks. In almost every case, refilling is false economy. The cost of that false economy varies, of course, but it is undeniable.Successful operation of the inkjet process involves forcing a liquid of known characteristics through a calibrated orifice. The "caharacteristics" of the ink include viscosity and chemical composition, and therefore, drying time. The orifice through which the ink is forced is integral to the print head, and is subject to enlargement through erosion as the liguid ink is forced through.HP (and of course others) take the sensible approach of replacing the print head -- and thus restoring orifice size -- with each ink refill. Epson on the other hand simply installs a new tank of ink.Thus it is easy to see that after a given period of time, the Epson print quality will suffer, the printer will use more ink, and there will be an increased probability of orifices clogging with dried ink.Refilling the "print head" type of cartridge is false economy for various reasons...

• the ink is not characteristically the same as that for which the printer was designed and calibrated, leading to reduced print quality;
• the orifices are not being replaced, leading to the same types of problems cited above for the "ink tank" printers;
• of course, using refilled cartridges will void most printer warrantees; and
• the ink used may not be chemically compatibe with any remaining ink in the tank, possibly causing failure of the print head.

We ran tests here using HP DJ880C printers and DJ940C printers. Average page counts produced with refilled cartridges were consistently only 56% of the page counts produced from factory-filled cartridges. These tests were run with both color and black inks, in both cartridge sizes. Refills were made with measured quantities of ink as per the original cartridge capacity, e.g. 15ml or 30ml, working with exhausted cartridges. If anything, this would likely yield a slight overfill, as not all of the original fill is "usable" ink. Various refill kit brands gave slightly different results, but none came anywhere near 60% of the factory-fill page counts. One brand tested gave prints that took almost two minutes to dry when printing a standard page of text in black.All things considered, my recommendation to clients is to alwys select a printer that uses "print head" replacement cartridges, and to always use factory replacements only -- with no refilling of them.I specify "factory replacements" for a good reason. Several companies are now selling inexpensive replacement cartridges for the popular printers. Some of these are simply refilled cartridges, while others are "refurbished" using non-factory print heads. There was a visibly noticeable drop in quality and page counts using these cartridges as well when we tested them, but that's another whole story!

[quint]

Excellent advice, ChrisP, thanks for sharing; I also always appreciated your timely comments and advice at PCQ&A - glad you're here.

[Scot]

What Chris said.But I want to add to the whole "false economy" thing with another evolution.I think ink-jet printers are essentially a flawed design. Laser printers are lot less expensive than they once were. And they last forever. They're basically maintenance free. I've had my LaserJet 5MP since 1995. I've probably only put four or five cartridges in it since I bought it. The thing just works and works and works. The worst thing that ever happens with this model is the occasional paper jam.My Canon personal copier uses a very similar laser print engine. I bought it in 1988. It still works perfectly.To me, the notion of saving a couple hundred bucks to buy a product that costs a lot more per page to print with, doesn't produce print that's as sharp, that smudges, that requires futzing with -- it just isn't worth it. It's penny wise and pound foolish.New laser printers from HP, Brother, Okidata, and Canon are inexpensive, small form factor, and very inexpensive to operate.The only argument in my mind for getting an ink-jet is that you want to do color printing. Cyndy and I recently added a HP color ink-jet for that purpose. We only use it for color printing though. There are issues with HP and drivers, but in terms of leaving it sitting for a long time, no issues. Eventually I intend to buy a color laser printer, btw.-- Scot

[Gus K]

Excellent advice, ChrisP, thanks for sharing; I also always appreciated your timely comments and advice at PCQ&A - glad you're here. 

Just don't bring that cranky old man with you. I can't even stand looking at his picture. I too used spend time there but his flippant, terse, opinionated, mostly useless answers became too much to take.The folks here not only answer questions but also explain/expand supporting issues and topics (as you always do). That's how people learn.(sorry to hijack the thread)

[quint]

Excellent advice, ChrisP, thanks for sharing; I also always appreciated your timely comments and advice at PCQ&A - glad you're here. 

Just don't bring that cranky old man with you. I can't even stand looking at his picture. I too used spend time there but his flippant, terse, opinionated, mostly useless answers became too much to take.The folks here not only answer questions but also explain/expand supporting issues and topics (as you always do). That's how people learn.(sorry to hijack the thread)

GusK,If we're both thinking of the same person, I must say that I don't agree with your sentiments; had a good picture of him, but I respect your not wanting to view this very wise and intelligent man.

[FuzzButt]

Here is my 2 cents worth. And in the case of Ink jet's you might need every 2 cents you can keep to buy more ink.A little background. I have worked in the IT repair business since 1994. I have training from IBM and Lexmark and some informal HP printer training. The Lexmark training also included Ink Jet models.My first printer was an IBM ProPrinter. A 9 pin dot matrix model that was a bit noisy but printed great considering. Second (7 years later) was a Cannon BJ200. It was a black only bubble jet that was good but not perfect and at $25 a cartridge for less than a ream of paper printed the cost per page was a bit high. I then bought a color HP DJ660 and then the DJ660CSE. These printers worked good for a while but the 660 died a few months after I bought it ad the 660CSE ate color cartridges. Since 1998 I have had a Lexmark Optra R+ then the Optra S model in 1999. These Laser printers work flawlessly. I have printed everything from 20 lb 8 1/2 x 11 to card stock to #10 envelopes. No issues. I am still on the original 17600 page cartridge and have printed 20717 pages on it. I don't flinch at printing a big job or even something small. I have printed every newsletter of Scot's and Fred's since the beginning. (can't take the PC around the house to read them) The Optra S I have prints 1200DPI at 18 pages per minute and by the time the first page is done ifrom a cold start it is still faster than a ink jet. The second page is right on the first page's tail. I now work on a 35 page per minute laser printer that is quite a bit faster but I see no reason to upgrade. I feel that if printing documents is important to you a laser is the way to go. There are inexpensive desktop models that are at great price points (I remember spending the same amount on a Inkjet in 1995). The best option would be a laser printer from Lexmark or HP that you connect to your parallel port and one of those all in one office machines that does color copies/Fax and is a color printer for all of your other needs.Chris

[lewmur]

I see this topic hasn't been discussed in a while and I'm wondering if things have changed much. I just tried re-filling an HP 60 black cartridge and the result was very bad. The print smears and even had big ink splotches on the paper. Obviously the ink viscosity was way to low.Has anyone had any luck re-filling these cartridges? If so, what brand of ink did you buy?