what the heck is eBay thinking?

[crp]

Here is one of the new rules:

Beginning late October 2008, all items listed on eBay.com must be paid for using one of the following approved payment options: * Direct credit or debit card payment via a merchant credit card account * PayPal * ProPay * Payment on pick-up Paper payment methods such as checks and money orders will no longer be accepted on eBay.com.By January 2009, all approved electronic payment methods will be integrated into eBay checkout. For example, buyers will be able to enter their credit card number directly into eBay checkout, and the payment will be routed to the seller's Internet merchant account or to their PayPal account.

another example of how monopolies in the computer arena are bad. eBay may be a monopoly by virtue of being the last one standing, but this seems to me to be the start of its profits going down. They are forgetting who really made their business go.The price of entry to the online auction market is too high for anyone to expect a new competitor for eBay to come, but I do think this will cause a huge traffic spike in Craig's List.

[Lena]

I used to buy and sell occasionally on eBay several years ago. I even took the class that eBay sponsored regarding buying and selling. Had a perfect (100%) rating. I'd buy small stuff; used prepay phones, other electronics. I sold a cellphone for twice what I expected because two bidders kept trying to outdo each other. I sold a automotive service manual that was 14 years old for more than I paid for it. Then eBay forced me to use Paypal and I read the TOS. It enabled PP to charge up to $10,000 without pre-authorization. No way I would sign that. I quit. I had noticed that eBay was no fun anymore. There were so many who were willing to bid a little more for the thrill of winning, and it drove the price of an item higher than it was worth, and in many cases, higher than could be purchased elsewhere, even at local brick and mortar stores. I had gotten burned a few times on items from sellers with a 97% "favorable" rating. I tried auction sniper to try to bid without pumping up the bidding price. Then, by the time I added in all the eBay fees, sniper fee, shipping costs, it just wasn't worth the hassle and amount of time required to purchase (or sell) an occasional item on eBay. Now on the rare occasion that I go to eBay to look for something (as a guest), it seems that most of the sellers are vendors, their minimum bids are too high and much of the merchandise can be found elsewhere with a thorough Google search. eBay, AFAIC, is no longer worth the effort to find a bargain or sell an item. Craig's list is definitely better, as long as one doesn't get scammed.

[greengeek]

eBay used to be fun, cheap and a good place to find stuff that was hard to get. Like most good things it had to come to an end sometime, looks like that time is now.

[Tushman]

another example of how monopolies in the computer arena are bad.

I don't think you made your case clearly enough.I think these changes are being implemented mostly because of online scams and fraudulent sellers. The changes are good in the sense that it will be easier for eBay & local security to track down those individuals who are ripping people off and to deter such people in the future.As for the poser who claimed that Craigslist is better - I beg to differ. The last time I tried to sell a few things on Craigslist, (earlier this year) I got hit with tons of e-mails from scam artists trying to run their routine on me. And it's not just a few people being ripped off, the problem is severe enough that Craigslist posted a warning on their site urging their customer to use common sense and deal with only local buyers/sellers.

[Cluttermagnet]

Just noticed this thread and wanted to weigh in. I'll add a more detailed comment later, but I do want to join in with others lamenting the passing of Ebay. (Tushman made some valid points in the post above, however) Ebay is a disaster right now, and I'm actually quite upset about it. They have killed it so far as any interest on my part for selling. It's a darned shame, because I have some items I'd really like to sell on there right now, and it ain't gonna happen. Too bad. I'll write more detail later...Edit: OK, point number one, Craig's List is in no way (that I can see) better than Ebay. It's definitely worse in a lot of ways. The value of Ebay has been the huge national and even international audience. Craigslist actively discourages the very thing I want to do- auction to a national audience(*). They advise you to stay safe by only dealing locally. That doesn't help me or work for me. Let's face it, Ebay was the only game in town. It had evolved into a really slick, powerful venue where you could do a lot of good buying and selling, both getting fair prices for your stuff and sometimes finding tremendous bargains as a buyer. I've done both. Craigs better than Ebay? No way! Craigs is like a pop gun compared to a Howitzer, for crying out loud!I've not had the 'buried in scam emails' experience, but only because I have never tried to sell on Craigs. I can see how pointless it would be. I believe you, Tushman.Point number two- Ebay has decided to make it impossible to have a private transaction with anyone. They want to monitor and control everything, creating a paper trail in the process. I was philosophically opposed to PayPal from the get go, long before Ebay bought them up. My feelings have not changed one iota. I don't want any middlemen and won't accept any. Period. I'm a big boy and can take care of myself. Remember when Ebay used to emphasize "Ebay is a Venue"? They were trying to remain unresponsible for all the transactions between buyers and sellers. That's how it should be- apart from 'due dllligence' on the part of Ebay to try to keep it safe as posible, it was always up to the parties to a transaction to keep it safe.Whiney crybaby losers(~) who got stung on Ebay ruined it for the rest of us. The complaints of abused neophytes echoed loud in the halls of Ebay. The legions of thieves and ripoff artists who sprouted out of every crack and cranny of Ebay like noxious weeds also had a big hand in killing it. Killed the golden goose, they all did. Sadly, there's more than just a few rotten apples in the Ebay barrel. Bah humbug!Point number three- (see point number two above) Whiney crybaby losers have complained to Ebay when they got cuffed around by impatient sellers, to the point where Ebay has now weighted the experience very top heavily in the direction of these buyers. One major way they did that was to remove all sellers use of 'Feedback'. Feedback is the exclusive province of buyers now. This is like putting loaded guns into the hands of two year olds. Most newbie complaints on Ebay have been groundless IMO. Takes a while to get a sense of the place. So to counteract those very rare instances where sellers abused feedback, they have made it so that any idiot newbie with totally unreasonable demands and expectations can ruin a perfectly honest seller's day, totally without justification. As it is, Feedback was a subtly nuanced thing. It was that top 2 or 3 percent zone in the Feedback where you had to probe around to tease out the truth. I was always extremely cautious with any seller having anything less than perfect feedback, but research usually removed all doubt and worry in that regard. Buying from a seller with 97 percent positive feedback, as posted above, would be very risky IMO. But a newbie wouldn'k know this. Couldn't possibly know. Only with research exonerating the seller would I have bid on a 97 percent seller's auction! Which leads us to...Point four- Ebay began masking a lot of information which used to searchable during an auction. So now it is impossible to know anything about who is bidding against you. This is unfair and disasterous. I caught a seller in shill bidding one time, and I did it only because I could nose around a little and take a look at the biding histories of my competitors in an auction. I uncovered an auction where another member of the same household, probably using the same machine, was shill bidding against me to get the price up. Or it may have been the same person, for all I know. They only got 'temporarily' suspended from Ebay. Hurrumph!The venue was pretty good but has been going downhill for several years now. Finally it reached a point where it has become so grossly unfair to sellers, the folks who made Ebay what it once was, that a lot of those folks are now abandoning Ebay. And sadly, I must be one of them. And I'll miss it all in a big way, but there's no way I am going to do it according to their extortionate terms. And I can't even say I wish them well. They have totally ruined a once great community resource for me and a lot of others. Abandoned with prejudice! 'A pox on their house'. (*) Why auction to a national audience? Well, for example, what if your items appeal to a very limited portion of the overall population? I have bought and sold a lot of amateur radio related items over the years. That's an area of limited interest. You have to sell to a national audience if you want to get top dollar- or even a fair price- for your items. Craigs is useless for these types of items!(~)'Whiney crybaby losers'? I rarely use language this harsh, but I am extremely angry. Can you tell? Newbies to Ebay were always well advised to get some good advice and guidance, to take it real slow and easy until they got their feet under them and had some real experience. The help of an 'Ebay mentor' was always well advised. But legions of noobs stumbled blindly into the venue and took really stupid risks and then went crying to Ebay after the schoolyard bullies had taken their lunch and beaten them up. And it was really soooooooooo easy to avoid that, if only you started out conservatively. Between the whiney crybabies and the vicious sharks who patrolled Ebay 'waters' looking for suckers, I suppose it was only a matter of time before something had to give. I know of one otherwise intelligent person who sent about 1500 bucks in payment for a laptop- it vanished down a rat hole in Russia because the buyer took unnecessary risks. Know your seller! Painful incidents like that combined to the point where Ebay locked it down beyond the point of usability for many sellers. Too bad.Consider how ridiculous the Ebay 'fixes' are however. It's like all the losers in Vegas crying uncle until finally 'uncle' steps in and abolishes all gambling in Vegas except for slots and Keno. OK, yeah, I'm overstating here to make my point. But I'm mighty darned steamed. 'The operation was a success but the patient died'.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Cluttermagnet

[Cluttermagnet]

(Bump)

[Webb]

(Bump)

OK, you mean people actually use eBay?

[Cluttermagnet]

OK, you mean people actually use eBay?

Yes, it's way more productive than golf unless you're able to use that time to sell to rich clients.

[Webb]

Shoot the messenger.

[Tushman]

Yes, it's way more productive than golf unless you're able to use that time to sell to rich clients.

Da*n, you had me at hello until you came out with this outrageously horrendous sacrilegious comment. If I ever meet you in person, I would like to buy you a round of golf and then lecture you on the mysteries and joys of golf. <bring your knickerboxers and your game> It's on... you have just fired up the green monster. Edited September 13, 2008 by Tushman

[Webb]

Golf. You either get it or you don't.

[Cluttermagnet]

Da*n, you had me at hello until you came out with this outrageously horrendous sacrilegious comment. If I ever meet you in person, I would like to buy you a round of golf and then lecture you on the mysteries and joys of golf. <bring your knickerboxers and your game> It's on... you have just fired up the green monster.

My ancestors invented the game. Personally, I have no patience for it. But somehow I do understand how so many have a love for it. My SO, although not much of a player, likes it. She says she will take me out to the course one day. Not that she golfs much any more. My golf comment is more of the nature of someone whose oxen has just been gored and responds in kind. I was feeling rather snappish that night. I'm still pi**ed about Ebay. Edited September 14, 2008 by Cluttermagnet

[Webb]

100 years from now you (and I) will be dead.100 years from now people will be playing golf with the same basic rules from 200 years ago.eBay will probably be completely forgotten.

[Tushman]

My golf comment is more of the nature of someone whose oxen has just been gored and responds in kind. I was feeling rather snappish that night.

Ah, I see.Well in regards to the eBay, I totally agree with you on the points you made in your very insightful post above. A bit long winded but very well thought out nonetheless. One thing to keep in mind is that companies evolve and change w/ consumer demand and market conditions. It's possible that some of these new changes will weed out some of the shady scam artists and thus return some sort of normalcy - who knows... eBay could reverse some of these new policies and regain some of the good customers they've alienated.I have to say it's pretty funny to see you so fired up about this. Funny in a good amusing way. Edited September 14, 2008 by Tushman

[Urmas]

Golf. You either get it or you don't.

If I were you, I'd contact Volkswagen's marketing department ASAP. You're onto something; a minute of Gimping, and: (Are they still rebranding Golfs as Rabbits across the pond? )

[Cluttermagnet]

I have to say it's pretty funny to see you so fired up about this. Funny in a good amusing way.

Thanks, Tushman.Yeah- "don't hold back, Clutter- tell us what you really feel!"

[Cluttermagnet]

(Are they still rebranding Golfs as Rabbits across the pond? )

I think they stopped doing that. I do remember the Rabbit, now that you mention it. Nope, we got 'farfergnugen' over here, even. They do sell the Golf. Oh, and they are running some cute, funny ads on TV here lately. I think VW is still pretty popular here.

[FuzzButt]

I agree a bit with your stance Cluttermagnet. However there are times that I too need eBay for items that are specialized in nature. The local thing helps too. Take this summer for instance.I was looking for a good used boat. Ya I could find them around town but I wanted something that the average boat owner does not have. So I searched both Craigslist and eBay. I used all 5 areas here in the Michigan Craigslist and set eBay to 150 miles from my zipcode. In about 2 weeks I found what I was looking for. I got the boat hull and trailer on Craigslist from a guy about 200 miles north of me for $800. A week later I found a decent used outboard motor to go with it about 45 minutes away for $550. I was the only serious bidder on either item so I got them for or less than asking price. I then needed a correct propeller for the outboard and found a place in Wisconsin that had on auction on eBay for a NOS propeller for $50 less than retail. I found I needed another propeller and again on eBay found a Brick & Mortar shop Florida that had a referb's stainless propeller for $300 less than normal new retail. I have been quite happy with the sellers that I have dealt with this summer. In all I have spent a bit over $1700 on auction sites this summer. Now switch to a couple years ago. I was selling stuff on eBay and had a non paying bidder. That was a real pain to get resolved. I ended up loosing $75 on the auction because of relisting fees and loss of the item value on the second auction. Turns out the guy won the auction then decided he did not want the item. My wife had an auction canceled about an hour before it ended because of copyright infringement of a picture of a picture on the produce she was selling. We still don't understand that one. I don't know if I would do any selling on eBay anymore but it still serves it's purpose for the odd and unique items that the local crowd would not have or are not interested in. I even found eBay stores that are real retailers across town or on the other side of the state that I would not have even know about if it were not for eBay. You have to take the good with the bad.Now as far as Craigslist. It has its place that is for sure. The fact the the ads are free makes it much easier for the amount of ads to become so hard you have to weed thru the garbage and scams to find what your really interested in. Oddly I have been using CL to see if we can recover a stolen laptop. I figure it will make it on there sometime. That is another issue and I think it effects both sites.

[Cluttermagnet]

Thanks, Fuzz-I agree with pretty much everything you are saying. Remember, my comments apply specifically to the situation of the small time, experienced Ebay seller. Those, Ebay is scr**ing royally. And that's a darned shame, and completely unjust. It is those very sellers who made Ebay what it is today. There must be a special place in he** reserved for the current crop of Ebay admins. BTW they are directly financially hurting me, right now, and lots of others like me. I have stuff I would love to put on Ebay right now, and it isn't going to happen because of their draconian selling policy changes. As I say, a pox on their house. What goes around comes around.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Cluttermagnet

[crp]

The small time seller, who is using eBay as a sort of glorified garage sale, is the one getting hurt the most but small business owners who setup eBay stores are getting banged around too. eBay already had the structure built in to localize the market place for sellers but they chose instead to make eBay'ing difficult.Is CL flawless? Nope. But I think the success of Craigs List proves that there is still a market for the 'garage sale' type and that eBay is giving them a raw deal.

[Cluttermagnet]

Is CL flawless? Nope. But I think the success of Craigs List proves that there is still a market for the 'garage sale' type and that eBay is giving them a raw deal.

I did score some very useful free stuff off of Craig's list. That was fun! But as for trying to sell my amateur radio items, it's pointless. The two Craig's categories "computer" and "electronics" are choked with consumer stuff. Not a venue that is useful for my purpose. My target audience is very unlikely to be looking there. I will have to resort to newsgroup ads mainly. Remember those? These days, a lot of folks don't even know what a newsgroup is. But they sure know what Ebay is. Not that it helps me.Well, I know what Ebay is, but those words would not be appropriate for a family- oriented venue like Scot's. :devil:I wish I had sold my stuff before that window of opportunity permanently closed on me. I was inactive as a seller these past 2 years or so. Too late- just when I wanted and needed Ebay as a seller again, they shoved a bunch of us over the cliff. So it looks like I have landed in the 'Ebay Anti-Fan Club'. And I have a long memory. My natural bias hereafter will be to deflect and redirect others to venues which value and support me. I'll be undercutting Ebay every chance I get. Edited September 18, 2008 by Cluttermagnet