Sleep zzzzzzzzzzz

[ibe98765]

Businessweek's Cover story this week is about sleep. Apparently, a lot of people are troubled by insomnia and have difficultly sleeping (something I've rarely had a problem with ). So I'm curious. How many here have a bonafide insomnia problem? How many hours do you all sleep on average? What effects do you notice [when you do/when you don't] get a good night's sleep? Do you fall asleep immediately? Would you take a regular sleeping pill to help you sleep (as the pharmacy companies would like)? Please share your stories and experiences...

JANUARY 26, 2004 BusinessweekCOVER STORY "I Can't Sleep"  Insomnia and other sleep disorders are wreaking havoc on our health and taxing the economy. Drug companies see an opportunity Insomnia has left Ron Hansen a desperate man. In the 16 years since he suffered his first bout of sleeplessness, he has tried seven different types of mattresses. He has gulped down gallons of warm milk and herbal tea. He once bought a dog, hoping the pooch's presence would calm him. Instead, he wound up watching his pet sleep. Much to the annoyance of his wife and four children, the 45-year-old Hansen is still up in the middle of the night, doing paperwork or shuffling around the house for hours, until he finally collapses back into bed. The days can get ugly, too. To avoid nodding off at the wheel, Hansen talks to himself as he drives from his home in Manalapan, N.J., to New York City, where he works selling credit-card processing services to hotels and restaurants. He often worries that crushing bouts of fatigue after a bad night make his sales pitches less than compelling. And that worry further fuels his insomnia. "There is nothing worse than knowing you have a 10 a.m. meeting with an important client, wanting to get a good night's sleep, and just not being able to," he says. Last year,Hansen's quest for rest drove him to participate in a trial for Estorra, an experimental sleep drug from Sepracor Inc. (SEPR ) in Marlborough, Mass., that's expected to hit the market by midyear.Hansen is part of a giant and growing class: worn-out, dragged-out denizens of a sleep-robbed netherworld. More than 82 million Americans -- nearly 40% of the teen and adult population -- suffer from some form of insomnia, meaning they routinely have trouble falling asleep and staying asleep. Even for those who grapple with transient insomnia a few times a year, the bouts of sleepless nights are an ordeal, like a bad, recurring flu. On the other side of the empty bed are countless people who cheat on sleep so they can squeeze more hours out of the day. Only 32% get the recommended eight hours of shut-eye on weeknights, according to a 2002 poll by the National Sleep Foundation. They won't outgrow the problem, either. Studies show that as we age, the quality of our sleep deteriorates (table). And our wired, 24/7 society makes it worse, bombarding us with news of mad cow disease and other coming calamities while beckoning us late at night to finish our work online.While we've been busy burning the midnight oil, scientists have been amassing evidence that sleep deprivation is a hazardous state. Insomnia has been fingered as a major risk factor for depression, alcoholism, and obesity. Other ruinous effects may be on display right in your office. Surveys indicate that nearly half of all office workers sleep poorly at least a few times a week, and more than 65% confess that they have trouble concentrating after a sleepless night, according to the National Sleep Foundation.Now think about the people responsible for your safety. A huge proportion of pilots -- not to mention policemen and doctors -- admit to making errors in sleep-deprived states, according to Alertness Solutions, a consulting company in Cupertino, Calif. "It's not as if people are off their game by 1%," says Mark K. Rosekind, president of the company. "They're way off." What's more, all this tossing and turning is putting a damper on the economy. Sleep deprivation costs $45 billion a year in lost productivity, health-care bills, and expenses related to traffic accidents -- rivaling the impact of depression, say, or stroke. As Stanley Coren, a sleep researcher and psychology professor at the University of British Columbia, often preaches: "Lack of sleep makes people clumsy, unhappy, stupid, and dead."To the world's growth-starved pharmaceutical companies, sleep deprivation spells opportunity. While drug company execs are aware that some insomniacs can be helped by exercise, diet, and keeping regular hours, they note that millions aren't cured by such regimens, or can't stick to them. The drug industry has barely dipped into this pool. Market researcher Decision Resources Inc. estimates that no more than 40% of insomniacs are diagnosed, and only half of those are treated with prescription drugs. The total market for prescription sleep aids is a skimpy $2 billion a year, mostly spent on a single blockbuster, Ambien, from Paris-based Sanofi-Synthelabo (SNY ).Complete article

[ibe98765]

I'll kick this off. I've never had too much difficulty sleeping although there have been times in my life when do to stress, insomnia has raised its ugly head. Most of the time when I was working in a corporate position, I'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which the article seems to say a lot of others do also. Often, I would be so tired after work that I'd come home and nap for another hour or so. I was always tired at work and when I am I tired, I get ornery, which can and IMO, did affect interpersonal relationships and my ability to always do the best job. Now that I am "between engagements (as they say), I find that I sleep 7 1/2 - 8 hours daily and don't have a need to take a nap. And one of the nice things about not working in the corporate environment is I can keep whatever hours I want. As you'll note by my posting timestamps, I tend to be a late night person, so I might turn in between 3-5am and get up around noon. I do have some weird dreams though. So although I am living off my savings these days, I feel very relaxed and rested (while working on some invention ideas). I know that I feel so much better and think much more clearly when I get enough sleep. My eyes, skin, etc. also look better.I don't drink coffee or soda (a little green tea every now and then), so don't have a problem with caffeine. Personally, people that I talk to who have insomnia seem to tend to also be coffee drinkers. They get into a cycle of not getting enough sleep, then using coffee to try to make up for less sleep which then leads to trouble sleeping, etc.That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

[Guest LilBambi]

I have generally slept about 6 hours a night for most of life (except when the children were little when I would wake at the drop of a hat).I rarely (unless I am not feeling well) sleep for more or less than 6 hours ... it is an internal time clock thing.I generally sleep hard (have been known to sleep through hurricanes) and don't wake up during the night either and rarely remember my dreams.

[Stryder]

I sleep on average about 5 1/2 hours a night. 5 to 6 hours a night through the week and 6 to 7 on weekends. Let us not forget the more than occasional 2 or 3 hour nights thrown in there as well. Although I do go through 1 or 2 bouts a year with true insomnia. During those 2 to 3 week periods of insomnia I am lucky to get 3 hours of sleep a night and the strange part is that my energy level is usually through the roof when that happens. Go figure. Being a full-time single parent and running a small home based business......... too often there are just not enough hours in a day. And sleep is what gets sacrificed. I can afford to loose sleep, but I can't afford to loose time spent with my kid or lose revenue from having unhappy customers. Tis the way of the world now a days I guess.

[Neil P]

I tend to sleep around 5 hours a night. "Sleep" is a general term, in which I mean "Lay in my bed and wish I was sleeping". This of course refers to weekdays. Weeknights are a little different, where I go to bed around 1-2 AM, and usually don't wake up until 12-1 PM Being a senior in high school is tough business

[ibe98765]

Sleeps in the news!

Does a good sleep make you smarter? Study links sleeping brains to creativityDeep sleep is essential for problem-solving and improving insight, German researchers say.  Updated: 2:11 p.m. ET Jan. 21, 2004Everybody feels refreshed following a good night’s sleep. But can you wake up smarter? More artistic perhaps?German scientists say they have demonstrated for the first time that our sleeping brains continue working on problems that baffle us during the day, and the right answer may come more easily after 8 hours of rest.The German study is considered to be the first hard evidence supporting the common sense notion that creativity and problem solving appear to be directly linked to adequate sleep, scientists say. Other researchers who did not contribute to the experiment say it provides a valuable reminder for overtired workers and students that sleep is often the best medicine.Sleep-deprived AmericansPrevious studies have shown that 70 million Americans are sleep-deprived, contributing to increased accidents, worsening health and lower test scores. But the new German experiment takes the subject a step further to show how sleep can help to turn yesterday’s problem into today’s solution.Full story

[SonicDragon]

I'm sort of all over the place.Normally, I get as much sleep as i can. Usually 7-8 hours (on weekdays), but on weekends, it's more like 10 hours a night As steeler said, it must be something about being in high-school :POther times, i'll go through stages where falling asleep before 1 or 2 is impossible, and i end up getting very little sleep.

[ibe98765]

They used to tell us that the older you got, the less sleep you needed. I don't find this to be true at all. I do wish there was some way to reduce sleep requirements, say by half and still feel fully rested. Sleep time seems like such a waste of time...

[Stonegiant]

The best cure for insomnia that I've ever heard: A good night's sleep

[Guest Paracelsus]

I was just about to ask who the other person was, who has regular bouts of insomnia. But now I see there is a third person.I envy those of you who sleep well. I never have. Even as a child, I had trouble falling asleep and would wake about almost every hour. (And I'm not talking about as a hungry infant ). Anyway...It never bothered me much until my early 40's. But it really is a drag.I've read most of the books, and followed the advice...

• No Reading in Bed
• No Watching TV in Bed (I don't even have a TV in the Bedroom. And being an over-the-hill bachelor... I don't do much of anything else in bed anymore, either! )
• Keep Regular Hours

Yadda-Yadda-YaddaI've tried Kava-Kava; 5-HTP; Melatonin, and most of the other "natural" remedies. About the only thing that does much good for me is Chamomile Tea and sometime warm milk.My primary physician refuses to give me a 'scrip for anything.I take the OTC sleep aides sometimes, and they do help... But I'll still wake up several times during the night (and it's not "nature calling") and they leave me really groggy in the morning... So I hate using them.A morning when I can get up and not remember having woken during the night is very memorable for me. I have, at most, three or four of those during a year.

[SonicDragon]

No Reading in Bed

Even if it's a really boring book? More seriously though, i'm sorry to hear you have trouble sleeping.

My primary physician refuses to give me a 'scrip for anything.

It may be time to get a second opinion...

Je Pense Donc Je Suis - Descartes

Well... maybe if you stop thinking... you'll disappear and have a nice sleep :'(

[Guest Paracelsus]

Je Pense Donc Je Suis - Descartes

Well... maybe if you stop thinking... you'll disappear and have a nice sleep

Don't worry about teasing me, SD.And you've nailed part of the problem, anyway.I've always found it difficult to drop things at the end of the day. As a student or a professional. But ****....I can already begin to see the "Retirement Light" at the end of the tunnel. Ya know!!...Even the thought of it is making me more relaxed.Mayhaps, I should start a "Retirement Meditation" regime before bed. There are people who have insomnia far worse than I do. And while it's not a laughing matter...It's something you try not to let dominate your life.I developed Tinnitus two years ago after a bad accident. And at first, I thought I would go NUTS Now, I hardly notice it. Having learned a few techniques to help prevent the conscious mind from paying attention to the sound

[SonicDragon]

Mayhaps, I should start a "Retirement Meditation" regime before bed.

i love meditation. I only wish i could make more time to practice what i preach If you have not already, i would suggest doing a meditation to calm and free your mind of all the work related thoughts. You may be pleasently suprized.

I developed Tinnitus two years ago after a bad accident. And at first, I thought I would go NUTSNow, I hardly notice it. Having learned a few techniques to help prevent the conscious mind from paying attention to the sound

I'm so sorry! Your right, it seems like something that would drive me absolutely insane. I'm glad that you've been able to work through some of it though. Best of luck with your retirement!

[ibe98765]

I was just about to ask who the other person was, who has regular bouts of insomnia.  But now I see there is a third person.I envy those of you who sleep well.  I never have.  Even as a child, I had trouble falling asleep and would wake about almost every hour.  (And I'm not talking about as a hungry infant   ).  Anyway...It never bothered me much until my early 40's.  But it really is a drag.I've read most of the books, and followed the advice...

• No Reading in Bed
• No Watching TV in Bed (I don't even have a TV in the Bedroom.  And being an over-the-hill bachelor... I don't do much of anything else in bed anymore, either! )
• Keep Regular Hours

Yadda-Yadda-YaddaI've tried Kava-Kava; 5-HTP; Melatonin, and most of the other "natural" remedies.  About the only thing that does much good for me is Chamomile Tea and sometime warm milk.My primary physician refuses to give me a 'scrip for anything.I take the OTC sleep aides sometimes, and they do help... But I'll still wake up several times during the night (and it's not "nature calling") and they leave me really groggy in the morning... So I hate using them.A morning when I can get up and not remember having woken during the night is very memorable for me.  I have, at most, three or four of those during a year.

Sounds unpleasant! I've used Melatonin myself on occasion but it makes me groggy when I get up. Recently I was reading that Melatonin also helps reduce blood pressure!Every now and then when I have a little trouble falling asleep because my mind is very active, I make a strong effort to eliminate/clear all thoughts. That seems to help me.Other things/areas you might investigate:- Hypnosis- Bio-feedbackHow's you eating habits? Do you eat correctly? Do you exercise regularly? If not, these could contribute to insomnia.Here's an article to read:http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-063.shtml

[ibe98765]

Another good article on sleep and problems....

Solving the drowsy brain mysteryScientists uncover clues to sleep-related disordersBy Malcolm RitterThe Associated PressUpdated: 8:52 p.m. ET Feb. 22, 2004Frank Knower knew something was wrong when he kept having conversations with co-workers and later couldn’t remember a thing that was said. He couldn’t even remember what he’d said.Later, after he retired, he discovered another problem: He got irresistibly drowsy during long drives.None of the usual stay-awake tricks like turning up the radio or rolling down the window could keep him awake. He had to pull over for naps.These days, his wife handles a lot of the driving. And while the 74-year-old Knower can still nod off during the day at his home in Tappan, N.Y., treatment for his sleep-disrupting condition, apnea, and a daytime alertness pill help keep his problems in check.For Knower, it’s a story with a happy ending. For scientists, though, it’s a story full of mystery.Why would a sleep-deprived brain fail to absorb conversations? Just how does it produce drowsiness while a person is driving? Indeed, how does it know it needs more sleep in the first place?Practical applicationsThese aren’t just esoteric ponderings. The answers to these and related mysteries about the sleepy brain could lead to improved drugs to help people fall asleep or stay awake. They could help drowsy people find the most effective time to drink coffee or take a nap.Scientists may even find safe and reliable ways to skip slumber entirely for days without the usual mental glitches.“You could have soldiers who could fight a war 24 hours a day and maybe not sleep, at least for a few days,†said Dr. Clifford Saper of Harvard Medical School. “If you knew what was making the brain sleepy, you could get at it at a fundamental level ... I think once we learn how the system operates we’ll be able to successfully manipulate it.â€Of course, in an economy with such potentially perilous round-the-clock workplaces as trucks, airplanes, nuclear power plants and supertankers, even helping people sleep and function well one day at a time would be a benefit.From reduced productivity to increased accidentsAn estimated 70 million people in the United States suffer from sleep problems, either because of disorders such as apnea and insomnia or just a lack of time devoted to slumber, the federal government says. At least 100,000 auto crashes and 1,550 traffic deaths a year are caused by falling asleep at the wheel.‘Sleep is as important to our overall health as exercise and a healthy diet.’— Dr. Carl Hunt- Director, National Center on Sleep Disorders Research Full article

[Guest LilBambi]

Great article ibe!Like I mentioned earlier, I rarely have trouble getting to sleep ... head on pillow means out like a light. But ..On the rare occasions that I have had trouble getting to sleep, I put on a movie that I have seen a million times (figure of speech of course ) but never tire of so I can close my eyes and just listen ... then I cuddle down and get comfortable and just listen and visualize the movie ... then I don't get frustrated with not being able to get to sleep cuz my mind does have something not really interactive to do and the vicious cycle of frustration doesn't start. ;)The last thing in the morning that I generally remember from the movie is about 10-20 minutes into the movie (generally about 10 minutes) and that's it. It seems to work great for me.

[ibe98765]

I didn't mention this previously but it might help some people. I use a sleep mask to block out all the light and this helps me sleep comfortably. I've tried a lot of masks, looking for the most comfortable. I finally settled on one from The Sharper Image that fits nicely and is comfortable. It also has some magnets in it, which is supposed to help something. Costs about $30. Don't know if the magnets do anything for real, but what the hoo...

[Guest LilBambi]

Yes, glad you brought that up ibe ... light is a big factor!(I put my head under the covers LOL!)When I was little I would put my head under my pillow.

[BoardFlak]

I usually sleep pretty well, it's just getting to bed in the first place....As far as waking up smarter is concerned, I remember one time in high school when I was supposed to memorize and recite a poem. I was working on it before going to bed, and I kept missing parts or just plain getting stuck over and over. I finally gave up and went to bed. In the morning, I tried again, and had it down perfectly. So "sleeping on it" does work for me, at least sometimes. This was the most dramatic personal instance I can remember.

[ibe98765]

Personally, I find this caffeine addiction of many people strange. It's not natural. I don't see it to be very much different from any other form of drug addiction, in this case, depending on a kind of speed drug to get through the days. If you need caffeine to keep going, then you aren't getting enough sleep. And you probably aren't getting enough sleep because of the caffeine drug...

[SonicDragon]

As far as waking up smarter is concerned, I remember one time in high school when I was supposed to memorize and recite a poem. I was working on it before going to bed, and I kept missing parts or just plain getting stuck over and over. I finally gave up and went to bed. In the morning, I tried again, and had it down perfectly. So "sleeping on it" does work for me, at least sometimes. This was the most dramatic personal instance I can remember.

That's my stratagy also. Work on it before you go to sleep and then quickly review in the morning. That way it's fresh in your mind for the test (or recitation etc). Personally, i've never been much of a caffine person myself. I love tea, but it's usually some herbal decaf. Even normal tea has way less caffine than coffee anyway.

[Guest LilBambi]

Actually it depends on the type of coffee you drink as to how much caffeine it contains as opposed to tea. Here's an eye opener (no pun intended LOL!) that really should get folks thinking ... shows how much caffeine content is in the average serving of different popular beverages including soft drinks that many folks guzzle like water: Caffeine Content Of Popular Drinks.Also, don't be so quick to discredit caffeine entirely, even the Alzheimer's Society hasn't done that yet:Altheimer's Society: Can drinking coffee/tea affect your risk of dementia?. Although they are waiting for collaborating information, they do list some compelling possibilities as the testing continues.I love my Drip Coffee ... especially made from freshly ground beans (although I don't get fresh beans as often as I'd like). And my Southern Style Iced Tea (extra sweet, no lemon).

[SonicDragon]

Cool link!

Sprite  07-Up  0Minute Maid Orange 0Slice 0Sierra Mist 0

Those are really the only soda's i ever drink... no wonder i'm tired

[ibe98765]

Good link on that caffeine chart Bambi!I was looking at the poll results so far (pretty poor participation with only 31 votes out of 2000+ members here!). 6 out of the 31 votes have insomnia or sleep less than 4 hours daily. That's nearly 20% of the survey! I was wondering how many who voted in these categories drink caffeinated beverages during the day?

[Guest Paracelsus]

I was wondering how many who voted in these categories drink caffeinated beverages during the day?

Up until my mid-30s...I would drink up to two full "12 cup" pots of fresh drip coffee a day, during the work week A habit I started as an Undergrad. However...For nearly twenty years now, I try VERY hard NOT to drink any beverage containing caffeine, after ~10am (excepting when I'm on vacation and may want to stay awake longer)Restricting caffeine intake hasn't helped for me.It's the "Not Dropping Things at the End of The Day" that effects me most

[SonicDragon]

6 out of the 31 votes have insomnia or sleep less than 4 hours daily. That's nearly 20% of the survey!

LOL! Well, since they have more hours in the day, they have more time to take the survey

[ibe98765]

Restricting caffeine intake hasn't helped for me.It's the "Not Dropping Things at the End of The Day" that effects me most

Have you given a sleep mask, as mentioned above, a try?

[rolanaj]

I drink a fair amount of coffee when I am home, unemployed at the moment so I am home most of the time. I drink instant coffee not perked except at a restaurant. I have very little trouble sleeping except when I am working and work cuts into my sleep time No seriously I tend to be a night person and although I have a hard time forcing myself to go to bed once I am there I am sleeping.Paracelsus I have heard that putting your thoughts on paper before you go to sleep can sometimes help you put them aside for later not sure if it works or not but it might explain why some people keep journals

[Guest LilBambi]

I thought that caffeine chart was pretty interesting also.I was very interested in the drip coffee figures since I enjoy that so much.But caffeine hasn't really changed my sleep pattern very much in nearly 50 years and I have been drinking coffee for 20 years. (I only drank tea before I was 30, any kind of tea, hot or cold, herb or caffeinated, preferred caffeinated ... I still really enjoy a good cup of tea, particularly english tea, or my southern style sweet tea -- can go through up to a 1/2 gal of iced tea in one to two days).

[SonicDragon]

But caffeine hasn't really changed my sleep pattern very much in nearly 50 years and I have been drinking coffee for 20 years. (I only drank tea before I was 30, any kind of tea, hot or cold, herb or caffeinated, preferred caffeinated ... I still really enjoy a good cup of tea, particularly english tea, or my southern style sweet tea -- can go through up to a 1/2 gal of iced tea in one to two days).

My day isn't complete without my cup of tea. I almost always do a hot herbal. I've never liked ice tea very much.Have you tried Steep? It's a flavored green tea soda! Yuuumy :'(The Repubic of Tea makes absolutely awsome teas! They sell them at borders too (if there's one of those near you...)