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Travels with Sid


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#1 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 02:13 PM

A question or two for the Sid/Siduction gurus out there.
I have been running Debian Sid without problems for a few months now on my Thinkpad. I have it set up the way I like and although there are lots of daily updates it works very well.
Now I want to take the Thinkpad on a two week ocean voyage where the Internet is slow and often unreliable. The last thing I want to do is bork an update.
So if I update at the hotel before I leave and when I get home will that be OK assuming the machine works fine when I embark on the ship? I figure I can deal with any issues at home if there are massive updates at that point.
Bottom line will I be OK to travel with Sid or should I bite the bullet and install a more stable distro before leaving on my voyage? I figure all will be well if I don't update a working install.
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#2 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 02:20 PM

You will be fine. Same with Arch, as long as you update within a month, you should be fine.

Even if you didn't, you would still be fine as long as you didn't do a partial update.
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#3 OFFLINE   sunrat

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Posted 04 January 2018 - 06:59 PM

I often don't upgrade siduction for weeks. A backup is made with Clonezilla if there are a lot of upgrades flagged. Be wary if apt says there are lots of packages to remove and check siduction forums Upgrade Warnings section.
Usually it's fine. ;)
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#4 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 09:58 PM

I had another major crash with Sid today on my Thinkpad. The update/dist-upgrade didn't go well and at the end of it when I rebooted gdm3 would not start and the graphical desktop was completely broken. The only solution would be a complete reinstall. There were no indications of lots of packages being removed so I don't know how I would have avoided this one.
I think there was something wrong with the package installer as one of the messages I got was:
E: sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (100)
Since I want to take this machine away with me in a few weeks and I don't want problems I decided to just install Ubuntu 17.10 on the Thinkpad. When I get back from holiday I'll probably reinstall Sid.

Edited by raymac46, 23 January 2018 - 10:09 PM.

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#5 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:08 PM

Why would sid be so unstable? It's not like this happens with other rolling distros. I always thought of debian unstable as being pretty stable but I guess not.
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#6 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:14 PM

Don't know what the reason is. Normally I wouldn't care - just reinstall. This machine isn't my go-to system but I do want it to work OK while on holiday.
This is the first real issue I've had with Sid in months.
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#7 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:16 PM

That's kind of the point of a rolling distro, you should never have to reinstall unless you screw it up yourself...
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#8 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:24 PM

Maybe Sid is a little too bleeding edge. I might try Buster next time. I haven't had any problems with Arch so far.
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#9 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 10:27 PM

View Postraymac46, on 23 January 2018 - 10:24 PM, said:

Maybe Sid is a little too bleeding edge. I might try Buster next time. I haven't had any problems with Arch so far.

What is buster?
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#10 OFFLINE   sunrat

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:25 AM

Buster is the current testing. It's still a development release. Neither testing or sid is an official rolling release.
siduction is probably the closest Debian comes to an actual rolling release but still requires caution when upgrading especially checking the Upgrade Warnings in siduction forum. There is a serious issue with intel-microcode patches for Meltdown/Spectre which caused some problems, and also a kernel which had problems building driver modules. Not sure if either of those would have caused raymac's problems but it does sound like a graphics driver issue.
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#11 OFFLINE   securitybreach

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:16 AM

View Postsunrat, on 24 January 2018 - 02:25 AM, said:

Buster is the current testing. It's still a development release. Neither testing or sid is an official rolling release.
siduction is probably the closest Debian comes to an actual rolling release but still requires caution when upgrading especially checking the Upgrade Warnings in siduction forum. There is a serious issue with intel-microcode patches for Meltdown/Spectre which caused some problems, and also a kernel which had problems building driver modules. Not sure if either of those would have caused raymac's problems but it does sound like a graphics driver issue.


Ah ok, thanks
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#12 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:20 AM

My Thinkpad is all Intel so it does have Intel graphics for sure. I did not get so far as installing a new kernel and building modules as the update would not proceed properly due to issues with dpkg. That may have caused a graphics driver issue though.
Maybe it's worth trying out Siduction when I am back from hols.

Edited by raymac46, 24 January 2018 - 08:20 AM.

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#13 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:34 AM

Here is the info about current Ubuntu which is running OK so far:

ray@ray-ThinkPad-T430:~$ inxi -Fxz
System:	Host: ray-ThinkPad-T430 Kernel: 4.13.0-31-generic x86_64 bits: 64 gcc: 7.2.0
		   Desktop: Gnome 3.26.2 (Gtk 3.22.25-0ubuntu0.1) Distro: Ubuntu 17.10
Machine:   Device: laptop System: LENOVO product: 2347H76 v: ThinkPad T430 serial: N/A
		   Mobo: LENOVO model: 2347H76 serial: N/A UEFI [Legacy]: LENOVO v: G1ET94WW (2.54 ) date: 04/22/2013
Battery	BAT0: charge: 18.6 Wh 31.9% condition: 58.3/93.6 Wh (62%) model: LGC 45N1011 status: Discharging
CPU:	   Dual core Intel Core i5-3320M (-HT-MCP-) arch: Ivy Bridge rev.9 cache: 3072 KB
		   flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 10375
		   clock speeds: max: 3300 MHz 1: 2593 MHz 2: 2593 MHz 3: 2593 MHz 4: 2593 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller bus-ID: 00:02.0
		   Display Server: wayland (X.Org 1.19.5 ) driver: i915 Resolution: 1366x768@59.80hz
		   OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Ivybridge Mobile version: 4.2 Mesa 17.2.4 Direct Render: Yes
Audio:	 Card Intel 7 Series/C216 Family High Definition Audio Controller
		   driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
		   Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.13.0-31-generic
Network:   Card-1: Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection driver: e1000e v: 3.2.6-k port: 5080 bus-ID: 00:19.0
		   IF: enp0s25 state: down mac: <filter>
		   Card-2: Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 [Taylor Peak] driver: iwlwifi bus-ID: 03:00.0
		   IF: wlp3s0 state: up mac: <filter>
Drives:	HDD Total Size: 128.0GB (5.6% used)
		   ID-1: /dev/sda model: SAMSUNG_MZ7PC128 size: 128.0GB temp: 0C
Partition: ID-1: / size: 117G used: 6.7G (6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1
RAID:	  No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 37.0C mobo: N/A
		   Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: 0
Info:	  Processes: 211 Uptime: 32 min Memory: 1343.2/7678.7MB Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: N/A
		   Client: Shell (bash 4.4.121) inxi: 2.3.37
ray@ray-ThinkPad-T430:~$

Edited by raymac46, 24 January 2018 - 08:41 AM.

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#14 OFFLINE   Hedon James

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 10:41 AM

View Postraymac46, on 24 January 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

My Thinkpad is all Intel so it does have Intel graphics for sure. I did not get so far as installing a new kernel and building modules as the update would not proceed properly due to issues with dpkg. That may have caused a graphics driver issue though.
Maybe it's worth trying out Siduction when I am back from hols.

+1 on the Siduction thoughts.  I have Siduction in a VM, keeping a long-term eye as a potential replacement for my everyday driver.  Their implementation of LXQT is the most polished I have seen & experienced.  If you're inclined to run Debian Sid as rolling, I can't think of any reason not to make the jump to Siduction.  The only drawback I've experienced is the upgrade process....log out, virtual terminal (ctl+alt+F1), init 3, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade, apt-get clean, init 5 && exit...log back in until next time.  Perhaps nitpicking, and not a deal-killer for me, but so far so good.

I believe sunrat is an everyday Siduction user...perhaps he can "sell" the merits (and downside) of running Siduction as a rolling release everyday driver.

#15 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:15 AM

I have tried Siduction in VMs and they have a nice Plasma and Xfce desktop. Sadly they don't seem to maintain GNOME that well and I am really getting back into GNOME.
I never thought I would say this but the new Ubuntu 17.10 based on GNOME 3 is really nice. It installs really fast on an SSD, everything works and I am sure it'll be stable for my holiday trip. I didn't tweak it at all. The only thing I don't like is that Synaptic doesn't work. I have to use the Software Center to install stuff. The terminal works though as I installed inxi that way with apt.
Rolling release in Debian isn't a big deal for me since I have Arch for that. If I get tired of Ubuntu I might just go with Debian stable and GNOME.
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#16 OFFLINE   raymac46

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:47 PM

Oh all right I can't really do Ubuntu any more. I really want to use the terminal for updates and installs, and Ubuntu is just too "automatic" for me. Probably great for a new user but I like Debian too much to stick with anything else.
For stability I have done a Debian Stretch net install and if I feel adventurous after the holidays I'll just switch my sources.list over to Buster or Sid.

ray@ray-debian-T430:~$ inxi -Fxz
System:	Host: ray-debian-T430 Kernel: 4.9.0-5-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 6.3.0)
		   Desktop: Gnome 3.22.3 (Gtk 3.22.11-1)
		   Distro: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch)
Machine:   Device: laptop System: LENOVO product: 2347H76 v: ThinkPad T430
		   Mobo: LENOVO model: 2347H76
		   UEFI [Legacy]: LENOVO v: G1ET94WW (2.54 ) date: 04/22/2013
Battery	BAT0: charge: 44.8 Wh 76.9% condition: 58.3/93.6 Wh (62%)
		   model: LGC 45N1011 status: Discharging
CPU:	   Dual core Intel Core i5-3320M (-HT-MCP-) cache: 3072 KB
		   flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 10375
		   clock speeds: max: 3300 MHz 1: 1203 MHz 2: 1205 MHz 3: 1201 MHz
		   4: 1291 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel 3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller
		   bus-ID: 00:02.0
		   Display Server: X.Org 1.19.2 driver: N/A
		   Resolution: 1366x768@59.98hz
		   GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Ivybridge Mobile
		   GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 13.0.6 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:	 Card Intel 7 Series/C216 Family High Definition Audio Controller
		   driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
		   Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.9.0-5-amd64
Network:   Card-1: Intel 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection
		   driver: e1000e v: 3.2.6-k port: 5080 bus-ID: 00:19.0
		   IF: enp0s25 state: down mac: <filter>
		   Card-2: Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6205 [Taylor Peak]
		   driver: iwlwifi bus-ID: 03:00.0
		   IF: wlp3s0 state: up mac: <filter>
Drives:	HDD Total Size: 128.0GB (10.2% used)
		   ID-1: /dev/sda model: SAMSUNG_MZ7PC128 size: 128.0GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 110G used: 4.9G (5%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda1
		   ID-2: swap-1 size: 8.27GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda5
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 37.0C mobo: N/A
		   Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: 2502
Info:	  Processes: 198 Uptime: 5 min Memory: 1350.8/7689.3MB
		   Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: N/A
		   Client: Shell (bash 4.4.121) inxi: 2.3.5
ray@ray-debian-T430:~$

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