V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 While we're on this topic... Google announces privacy changes across products; users can’t opt out I have a feeling this is all going to backfire on Google one of these days. They'll end up being just another Worldcom or Netscape if they keep whizzing people off like this. Hi, steeler_fan here. I split this topic off from the Google+ topic for easier reading/discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Sigh.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 OK, well... I'm officially over Google, folks. I'm winding down my three Google email accounts. I spent quite a bit of time today filling out change of email addy forms and unsubscribing/resubscribing to many of my newsletter sites. Over time, I'll have less and less activity on my Gmail accounts. I'll leave them up for contact options on my blogs and websites so that all the carp can come to those accounts. Google can have all my carp. I been using Yahoo (Bing) for quite some time already, so that's that. I would never have expected Google to become this dollar grubbing whore that it seems to be becoming. I guess I was a bit naive. Yes. I know that Bing (Microsoft) and Yahoo are also about making a buck. Google just seems to be really sticking it up our noses, though. They think the have the world hooked on their products. They may even be right about that. I've never been one to follow the crowd, though. I think they should change their company name from Google to Sheeple since that's who they're fleecing of data and privacy. What's the Internet coming to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I hear ya Eric. Sad really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Google Wants YOU! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The reality here is that Google is now sharing your data between all their different products, whereas before each product had its own information on you... So the data being collected is nothing new, but being used in a new way. I've had some interesting discussions at work about the privacy implications. Surprisingly, no one was really concerned about the potential problems with their personal information. However, they said (and this is probably true) that this information will be used primarily to deliver ads targeted to you. WHat I found interesting is that some of these folks said they would prefer it that way. For example, why show them an ad for Harvard? They aren't interested in that. However, many of them are, shall we say, aficionados of beer. They would rather see ads that they might be more likely to click on, so the advertisers get better bang for their buck. The ads can be better tuned to them by an amalgamation of their unique data. An interesting perspective, if you ask me. It certainly bears some thought..... Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Great Sebastian Anthony article at ExtremeTech --> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/115425-google-is-fubar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Google announced perhaps the biggest change it has ever made to its massive network of web services: Starting in March, your search and surf habits across all of Google’s products will be combined to form the mother of all behavioral profiles. Exactly and why I am so upset about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 First, you can’t opt out of these changes. Basically, on March 1, Google is combining 60 out of its 70 privacy policies to form a Main Privacy Policy, which mandates the sharing of data between services. If you use one of these 60 services (which includes almost everything except Google Chrome), there is no option for you to continue using the old privacy policy that existed when you signed up. If you have a Google account, you must accept this new privacy policy if you want to continue using Gmail, Docs, and so on. You must allow Google to share your data between its services. Just boils my noodle more and more, the more I read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 This is also why I use DuckDuckGo.com and StartPage.com or IXQuick.com more and more. This kind of crap is why I left Facebook, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I've continued to wind down my Gmail usage today. In a matter of weeks, I should be totally free of it. When 1 March rolls around, I'm seriously considering NOT agreeing to their new Privacy Policy, which would, of course, result in termination of all my Gmail accounts. So be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Great Sebastian Anthony article at ExtremeTech --> http://www.extremetech.com/computing/115425-google-is-fubar Google is FUBAR I am extremely disappointed that this guy could not be more professional in his analisys of the issue. There are plenty of other things he could have said. SPYW- This can be turned off, if I remember correctly. http://support.google.com/websearch/bin/an...;answer=2410479 Especially with search.... you can log out of Google before you try the search. Just sayin'.... I know everyone is really having issues with this. However, this article is needlessly sensationalist. If you are the type of person who does not have an account on Facebook, then this type of service is not going to work for you. The beauty of the Internet is there is choice. I can go somewhere else. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Adam is a Google lover! Adam is a Google lover! Na-Na-Na-Na! Just teasing ya', Adam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Well, I do use Gmail and youtube. That's about it. I tjust wish the press would take the high ground when writing articles like this. It is getting to be almost like cable news networks..... Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I hear ya Adam. I too wish so many times that media would take the high road, however, much of what he says is true. He really didn't have to over sensationalize it to get that. And you are right, if you are not logged in (and I am ONLY logged in when absolutely necessary!), the results are not skewed (and I do consider them skewed when I am logged in). I want independent search results. Not ones tailored to me. And I definitely do NOT want ads tailored to me. I don't want any ads, but I have to deal with some. I use Adblock Plus on the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Most Internet press sites are just fancy-schmancy blogs these days, Adam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 And you are right, if you are not logged in (and I am ONLY logged in when absolutely necessary!), the results are not skewed (and I do consider them skewed when I am logged in). I want independent search results. Not ones tailored to me. And I definitely do NOT want ads tailored to me. I don't want any ads, but I have to deal with some. I use Adblock Plus on the rest. I would argue that the results are skewed (personalized) even when you are not logged in. It tends to not be as obvious. Run the same search after clearing cache on two browsers from different OSs. I bet the results on a mac will be slightly different than the results on a linux machine. Google is still trying to predict what results would be useful to you, by using your IP information, location, OS, browser, etc. Location (approximate) will be derived from IP address. Google is doing everything it can to get the results that would be the most relevant to you. In order to that, they are using all kinds of demographic information that they can get. After all, if you are searching for information on viruses from a linux machine, your needs would be different than if you performed the same search on a Mac or Windows machine, right? Adam Most Internet press sites are just fancy-schmancy blogs these days, Adam. True. The lines between a blog and news site are sadly blurred. It makes it very hard to get reliable information. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LilBambi Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Actually that's not true at all ... at least for me. I would imagine for some users that might be the case but not for me. I sometimes search using one browser or another, I also search from other OSes when I am looking for answers for totally different OS. I do not want my results skewed like that at all. If I want info on Windows, I will specify that in my search. Same for Linux or Mac OS. And I am very specific about the OS I mean when I search. I do not want or need their help in 'guessing' my needs or wants. I will give an example of such 'helpful' sites. There was a time when I needed to download a Windows file from Mac or Linux and the specific plugin website thought it would be smart and would only offer the one I needed for my particular OS. I could not get what I needed and had to go to a third party file site like FileHippo to get what I needed. I don't mind doing that but I wanted to make sure I had the absolute latest available from the vendor and I couldn't. There have also been times when I needed to find an answer to a question in one OS and wasn't able to boot that OS. I had to search using a totally different computer and OS to get the information needed. And the results I was getting were skewed for the OS I was using even with the search criteria I gave it; meaning instead of my answer link being on the first page near the top, it was several pages in. Many such examples have been very frustrating over the years. This is not at all helpful. You see what I mean? And that was only a couple examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil P Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 It's not "guessing". At least it's not an uneducated guess. It learns things about you and tries to show you what is relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tushman Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) I've had some interesting discussions at work about the privacy implications. Surprisingly, no one was really concerned about the potential problems with their personal information. However, they said (and this is probably true) that this information will be used primarily to deliver ads targeted to you. Uh... they SHOULD BE worried about their privacy. it is not just targeted ads. Google also filters search results based on your past searches and your activity on other google apps. Great - just what I need. Some giant corporate entity doing all my *thinking* for me and shoving something in front me telling me what i should buy/eat/smell/search for/drool over/... on & on... Edited January 27, 2012 by Tushman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I do not want my results skewed like that at all. This is not at all helpful. You see what I mean? And that was only a couple examples. We are both in the minority. If we don't want our results skewed, where do we go? What search engine has good results that are usable? Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Uh... they SHOULD BE worried about their privacy. it is not just targeted ads. Google also filters search results based on your past searches and your activity on other google apps. Great - just what I need. Some giant corporate entity doing all my *thinking* for me and shoving something in front me telling me what i should buy/eat/smell/search for/drool over/... on & on... I was not implying that they shouldn't be concerned... merely that they were not. It was an interesting conversation. FOr what it is worth, it was with some of the brightest folks at my command. I am betting that most people will have similar opinions. This puts us in the extreme minority. Assuming that is the case, is our view too narrow? Do we need to be this dogmatic about this? These are the questions I am wrestling with..... Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil P Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm not sure why this is inherently bad. Are they collecting new information? In fact I didn't know that the different products were (are) separate--I thought they shared stuff anyway. Especially after G+ things started showing up in Searches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Neil, The new change allows Google to share data between services. That is the only change I know of. http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/upd...-and-terms.html http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/preview/ There may be other stuf embedded in the policy from the merging of the ~75 other policies. Straight from the horse' mouth....... Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 OK, I'm all mailed up again, folks. Thanks for the suggestions. I used Hotmail for one account and Fastmail for another. I tried GMX, but they told me they couldn't process my app at that time. I'm too impatient to wait and come back later, though. Oh well... maybe a GMX account some other time. Sunsetting my Gmail accounts folks. If you had any of them as your contact method for me, they won't work be any good after 1 March, when I decline to agree to their new Privacy Policy. I imagine all my Gmail accounts will be terminated at that time. My new contact email is a clickable link on a little mailbox pic on my website: http://vtel.jaylach.com/vtel57/vtel57.html Grab it there. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 Oopsy! Found out Fastmail does not allow smtp from my email client. You have to go to their webmail page to send mail with Fastmail's free offerings. That's OK, though. I only use it for notifications from boards and blogs, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrine Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 All set, Eric. I just removed your G-mail addy from my contact list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V.T. Eric Layton Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 Did you get my new email off my website, Corrine? If you need me to, I'll just send it to you via PM. Actually, I have a better idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil P Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I don't really see the difference between Windows Live Mail's privacy policy and Google's proposed new policy. Windows Live Mail: We collect information as part of operating our Websites and services. • At some Microsoft sites, we ask you to provide personal information, such as your e-mail address, name, home or work address, or telephone number. We may also collect demographic information, such as your ZIP code, age, gender, preferences, interests and favorites. If you choose to make a purchase or sign up for a paid subscription service, we will ask for additional information, such as your credit card number and billing address. • In order to access some Microsoft services, you will be asked to sign in with an e-mail address and password, which we refer to as your Windows Live ID. By signing in on one Microsoft site or service, you may be automatically signed into other Microsoft sites and services that use Windows Live ID. For more information, see the Windows Live ID privacy supplement. • We collect additional information about your interaction with Microsoft sites and services without identifying you as an individual. For example, we receive certain standard information that your browser sends to every website you visit, such as your IP address, browser type and language, access times and referring Web site addresses. We also use Web site analytics tools on our sites to retrieve information from your browser, including the site you came from, the search engine(s) and the keywords you used to find our site, the pages you view within our site, your browser add-ons, and your browser's width and height. • We use technologies, such as cookies and web beacons (described below), to collect information about the pages you view, the links you click and other actions you take on our sites and services. • We also deliver advertisements (see the Display of Advertising section below) and provide Web site analytics tools on non-Microsoft sites and services, and we collect information about page views on these third party sites as well. • When you receive newsletters or promotional e-mail from Microsoft, we may use web beacons (described below), customized links or similar technologies to determine whether the e-mail has been opened and which links you click in order to provide you more focused e-mail communications or other information. In order to offer you a more consistent and personalized experience in your interactions with Microsoft, information collected through one Microsoft service may be combined with information obtained through other Microsoft services. We may also supplement the information we collect with information obtained from other companies. For example, we may use services from other companies that enable us to derive a general geographic area based on your IP address in order to customize certain services to your geographic area. Google: We collect information in two ways: Information you give us. For example, many of our services require you to sign up for a Google Account. When you do, we’ll ask for personal information, like your name, email address, telephone number or credit card. If you want to take full advantage of the sharing features we offer, we might also ask you to create a publicly visible Google Profile, which may include your name and photo. Information we get from your use of our services. We may collect information about the services that you use and how you use them, like when you visit a website that uses our advertising services or you view and interact with our ads and content. This information includes: Device information We may collect device-specific information (such as your hardware model, operating system version, unique device identifiers, and mobile network information including phone number). Google may associate your device identifiers or phone number with your Google Account. Log information When you use our services or view content provided by Google, we may automatically collect and store certain information in server logs. This may include: details of how you used our service, such as your search queries. telephony log information like your phone number, calling-party number, forwarding numbers, time and date of calls, duration of calls, SMS routing information and types of calls. Internet protocol address. device event information such as crashes, system activity, hardware settings, browser type, browser language, the date and time of your request and referral URL. cookies that may uniquely identify your browser or your Google Account. Location information When you use a location-enabled Google service, we may collect and process information about your actual location, like GPS signals sent by a mobile device. We may also use various technologies to determine location, such as sensor data from your device that may, for example, provide information on nearby Wi-Fi access points and cell towers. Unique application numbers Certain services include a unique application number. This number and information about your installation (for example, the operating system type and application version number) may be sent to Google when you install or uninstall that service or when that service periodically contacts our servers, such as for automatic updates. Local storage We may collect and store information (including personal information) locally on your device using mechanisms such as browser web storage (including HTML 5) and application data caches. Cookies and anonymous identifiers We use various technologies to collect and store information when you visit a Google service, and this may include sending one or more cookies or anonymous identifiers to your device. We also use cookies and anonymous identifiers when you interact with services we offer to our partners, such as advertising services or Google features that may appear on other sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross549 Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I don't really see the difference between Windows Live Mail's privacy policy and Google's proposed new policy. Windows Live Mail: Google: The same is probably true of Yahoo..... Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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