"I will NEVER upgrade to Vista"

[Cluttermagnet]

I had to chuckle at this one- Now it's final. I will NEVER upgrade to VistaWell duh!

Edited March 9, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Gary]

Never is a long time. I installed Vista Business and so far it works great. Better than Xp Pro.

[Guitar Man]

Wow...that article says it all, doesn't it ?

Edited March 10, 2007 by Guitar Man

[greengeek]

I remember all this fuss about XP when it was first released.

[tommyj12]

I was just talking to a friend of mine who said the same thing. I hear mixed things about Vista though. Some make it sound like the best thing since sliced bread. Does anybody know what the heck it is about aero that needs 2gb of ram? The hardware vendors are loving it.

[goretsky]

Hello,I believe the requirements for Aero are a DirectX 9.0-capable video graphics card for basic graphics functionality (Vista Capable). For Aero Glass functionality, the video card must have 128MB of memory (Vista Premium Ready).I installed the x86 (32-bit) release of Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition on a notebook computer with 2GB of RAM. After some minor tweaking consisting of installing all optional components, disabling most of them, installing device drivers from the laptop manufacturer and some third party tools for security, approximately 700MB of RAM was in use. With additional experimentation, I could probably increase the amount of RAM available beyond the ~1.3GB or so which is now free, but I have not found a reason to do so yet as nothing I am doing on the computer has had a problem as a result of not having enough memory.Regards,Aryeh Goretsky

[Cluttermagnet]

Another interesting, real world story about moving away from MS: Newsmaker: Rockin' on without MicrosoftMicrosoft crucified this guy, but he survived it and didn't allow it to destroy him. Today he actually thanks MS for showing him the way and giving him his freedom. He runs a totally MS-free IT shop in his business. Food for thought for us all. Shades of RI*A/MP*A ("Hooligan B*st*rds").

So what did swearing off Microsoft entail?We looked at all the alternatives. We looked at Apple, but that's owned in part by Microsoft. (Editor's note: Microsoft invested $150 million in Apple in 1997.) We just looked around. We looked at Sun's Sun Ray systems. We looked at a lot of things. And it just came back to Linux, and Red Hat in particular, was a good solution.

It's interesting, if you think about it- Mac only survives today because of a major cash infusion from MS which propped it up. And look at the hardware platform convergence now taking place.This is a slightly long article, but I found it quite fascinating. Another point it briefly touches on is the still- festering Linux SCO debacle, and the cloud it imposes over the future of Linux. Conspiracy theorists swear that the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train. MS, the 800 pound gorilla, wants to become the 800,000 pound gorilla? All I know is, I can't go foreward with MS. I'm transitioning into Linux despite all the FUD. A slow and painful process, perhaps, but I'll get there. And I'm bringing a few friends along. I've already 'unsold' one retail copy of Vista. All I had to do was explain to my friend how DRM-infested Vista is. He did his own research and he arrived at the same conclusion I did.Here's another writing from the "I will NEVER upgrade to Vista" guy titled "The LEAVING WINDOWS Project", He provided the link above.One other link he listed: Is It OUTRAGEOUS or is it just ME? Yes, it's outrageous. If I ever should want to get a copy of XP (for self- training, so I can help my friends with the OS), I'd obviously now have to resort to Ebay. We're limited to a rapidly shrinking pool of last years models if we want to buy a PC with XP preloaded. Or will MS be successful in intimidating Ebay management further than they already have, and thereby cause all copies of XP to become unavailable even in that flea market venue? Edited March 9, 2007 by Cluttermagnet

[Steve N]

Some make it sound like the best thing since sliced bread. Does anybody know what the heck it is about aero that needs 2gb of ram?

I don't like Vista all that much after a month, but the ram thing isn't a big deal. I'm idling at about 500-600 Mbs used ram, which is just about 10% over what XP was using with the same programs installed. I have a lot of crap running in the background, XP was creeping up and up over the years. Aero doesn't seem to use ram, at least when I turn it off nothing is affected. The Vista wallpapers and system skin do seem to use a bit more than XP, if you change to the XP classic skin the ram use goes down a notch.I believe the recommendation for '2 Gb' is for newer programs running in Vista, not Vista itself, and those programs (I hear this on gaming websites, nowhere else) would love 2 Gb's on XP as well. I've never gone over 1 Gb ram use using a variety of multimedia editing software, but my games love 2 Gb in Vista.ETA: Ah, here you go, Media Center just finish recording something for me, hasn't let go of the ram. Like I say, not totally fond of Vista yet, maybe once a few tweaks are found out, or SP1 is released.... Edited March 9, 2007 by Steve N

[Gary]

ETA: Ah, here you go, Media Center just finish recording something for me, hasn't let go of the ram. Like I say, not totally fond of Vista yet, maybe once a few tweaks are found out, or SP1 is released....

That is why I got Vista Business, I have no use for a Media Center, that is why I have a TV.

[Steve N]

That is why I got Vista Business, I have no use for a Media Center, that is why I have a TV.

I don't have a TV, that's why I have Media Center.

[Gary]

I don't have a TV, that's why I have Media Center.

Your probably better off without one.

[Guest LilBambi]

Since this more a commentary than a 'help' topic, I have moved it to the Water Cooler.I found the article quite enlightening.Thanks for posting it Cluttermagnet.

[Gary]

Wow...that says it all, doesn't it ?

I guess it does.

[Grasshopper]

...sp1 will be out and all the bugs will forever be gone from any microsoft os.

[Mork]Oh, humor! AR AR AR AR AR!![/Mork]

[Guest LilBambi]

Yes! Great stuff Temmu!

[b2cm]

o! back on topic...as i said in another post, it'll be a christmas gift to self, as by then, sp1 will be out and all the bugs will forever be gone from any microsoft os.

And you get better hardware for your money.

[Jeber]

An interesting article on this topic was in the last edition of the Windows Secrets newsletter, which mentions two people we all may have heard of:

High-profile Vista defections and avoidance maneuvers in the past few weeks beg a key question: Is the best way to save time with Vista to avoid it completely?Some big names who are dissing Vista make many people wonder if they should do the same.Vista losing more and more supportersIt's getting harder and harder to find Vista patriots. The "Vista right or wrong" crowd seems to have faded into the woodwork. Two big-name defectors in the past few weeks have a lot of people wondering what Redmond hath wrought.First, Computerworld editor Scot Finnie declared that he was dumping Windows on his main machine and moving over to Mac OS X. Scot's a seasoned, knowledgeable Windows veteran — he's been writing about Windows for more than a decade. I got to know and respect Scot when he wrote a thick Windows book for a series I edited years ago. Scot's always been open to new options, and he's dabbled with Linux and the Mac over the years. I think it's fair to say that he has more varied operating-system savvy (at least from a user's point of view) than anybody else I know. After a three-month trial using OS X to get his everyday work done, Scot says he won't go back to Windows.Scot published a well-reasoned article for ComputerWorld entitled "The Trouble with Vista." While I disagree with some of his observations (and his second example is factually incorrect, based on Brian Livingston's recent Vista activation delay discoveries published in the Feb. 15 issue of the Windows Secrets Newsletter), Scot's bottom line speaks volumes: "When all is said and done, it's not that I don't like Vista. It's that I've lost faith in Microsoft to deal in an evenhanded way with end users and corporate buyers of its software."Scot's dalliance in Steve Jobs' Garden of Eden didn't take me by surprise. But Chris Pirillo's YouTube video announcement that he was "upgrading" from Vista Ultimate back to Windows XP knocked me for a loop. Yes, you read that right. Chris believes that tossing out the new Vista and going back to the old XP constitutes an upgrade. If you look at his video, it's hard to dispute his conclusion.You may know Chris better in his Lockergnome guise, as one of the pillars of the online community. Chris isn't an operating system guru like Scot. Chris more closely resembles an average, everyday über-geek genius with a pile of work to tackle, and little sympathy for things that get in the way.Watch the video to see why he's ticked off at Vista drivers that don't work and aging software that doesn't live harmoniously in the Vista world. "Vista doesn't work the way that I would want it to work. I can't live in Vista if the software that I use in my life for productivity does not work," he says.Chris's solution? Dump Vista on his main computer. Go back to Windows XP.

[Guest LilBambi]

Yes, and Scot (which is actually a misnomer since he does still use Vista, just not as his main system), and Chris aren't the only ones (and I don't just mean me). ;)Not that I live and die Symantec, in fact, I don't use their products personally (two reasons: bloatware and they killed Sygate Personal Firewall), but many of my clients do.Symantec's Thompson: No Vista for meAnd you gotta love the The Joy of Tech's laughter is the best tech support answer.

[ebrke]

I remember all this fuss about XP when it was first released.

Yep, so do I, because that's when I dumped windows--I wouldn't go the XP route, figuring that the restrictions were going to get worse as time went on. There were a fair number of windows users who gave up windows with XP release, and I think there are going to be more dropping it now that Vista is here.

[Guitar Man]

I agree with Gary; never is a long time. Eventually. Maybe. Possibly....It's a gray area for me because PCs and Windows are my adopted hobbies and sidelines. I help personal friends and online users with problems, and need to know more before plunging into it full time. And that can wait because I have an outside life (and non-computer career) to take care of (and enjoy).I myself have said many times (and in another forum I live in) that I'll wait for XP SP3 to reach it's supported life cycle (and Vista SP1 to come out, hopefully with the removal of DRM-related crapware) to switch to the "latest & greatest" OS. Until MS has the bollocks to stand up to the RIAA/MPAA crowd, and allow for "fair use", they won't get me sucked in to the Vista vacuum.I'm a daily user of XP for 4 years now, still learning about the inner workings of Pro, have yet to use it in a LAN environment (which I initially purchased it for at the exorbitant cost of $400 at the time) and plan to milk it for all it's worth. Cripes...thousands of people are still running 10 year old Win98 systems today ! Think about it.The Aero look is definitely pretty. I can agree with that. But it's the only reason I can find to like it's Mac "look". When XP was being advertised at the time I was still using Win98 (and getting crashes almost daily), I was excited to get my hands on it. Four years later (and 4 years smarter) I don't have the same urge to jump on Vista. I consider myself a "power user", but not an expert in the way that website developers and software designers see it. Nor am I a gamer that would appreciate the graphics upgrade. My priorities are not there.And I disagree with the above post because of the aforementioned reasons; the trend will be to revert back to XP for the "uninitiated" casual user, or the ones that are ignorant enough to think everything they ran on older OSes will instantly run on Vista. It will take time. And lots of money.

[Guitar Man]

Not that I live and die Symantec, in fact, I don't use their products personally (two reasons: bloatware and they killed Sygate Personal Firewall)

That's one of the main reasons I swear at them (digitally speaking of course ). They at least know how tough it is to remove anything Symantec; they introduced the Symantec/Norton Removal Tool. I wonder if Peter Norton is still on their payroll...

[Guest LilBambi]

I myself have said many times (and in another forum I live in) that I'll wait for XP SP3 to reach it's supported life cycle (and Vista SP1 to come out, hopefully with the removal of DRM-related crapware) to switch to the "latest & greatest" OS. Until MS has the bollocks to stand up to the RIAA/MPAA crowd, and allow for "fair use", they won't get me sucked in to the Vista vacuum.

(bold emphasis mine)I hear ya! If I get Vista (to be used within a virtual environment and mainly so I can play with it to be able to help clients better) it will definitely never be while they are in bed with the entertainment cartels.

And I disagree with the above post because of the aforementioned reasons; the trend will be to revert back to XP for the "uninitiated" casual user, or the ones that are ignorant enough to think everything they ran on older OSes will instantly run on Vista. It will take time. And lots of money.

You know, you may well be right about the casual user or even some very knowledgeable -- "Windows" knowledgeable users -- who are very committed to the OS due to program necessities, investment in expensive, or numerous purchases of programs that won't run on other OSes, investments in education for helping their customers, or just not wanting to learn a whole new OS or way of doing things. Although, whether they go back to XP or Win2K is the question. There are some annoying things like WGA/WGA Notification even in WinXP. Either trust your customers or not. Don't make all customers out to be pirates unless proven otherwise. People who need to be watched like a hawk lest they try something!?!Last time I looked, we were still a free society that is based on 'innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.'I can understand why Chris got frustrated with Vista. I also read that he really misses Vista at the same time, and has been trying to figure out how to make it work with his hardware and software. He really loves Windows XP as well, and is using it, but he also misses some of the things that he grew accustomed to and fell in love with in Vista that are really nice. I wish him well on whatever he chooses to do.I personally feel very torn about the whole Vista thing. I have always loved Windows and I do think Vista is the most beautiful OS they have ever come up with. And I have not given up on Windows entirely either. I simply went back to my Win2K install disks and installed that.I will simply not pay good money for an operating system that someone else controls to a large extend as will be the case with the entertainment cartels. Microsoft has said they have only made the ability for 'copyright holders' to protect their property (Vista, the Enabler).But we have seen how greedy the entertainment cartels are (just look at what they are proposing right now for Internet Radio!?!). We have seen how many people have had problems with DRM schemes. Even Bill Gates says NO ONE is doing DRM right.Every DRM scheme has failed users, and the landscape is littered with dead ends for users! Users stopped at every turn from doing what they wish with what they buy. Personal fair use is NOT unreasonable.DRM will never be done right, because DRM prevents fair use of what we buy. Plain and simple./rant off

[hkspike]

Last time I looked, we were still a free society that is based on 'innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.'

Not since George W suspended Habeas Corpus.

[Guitar Man]

I can understand why Chris got frustrated with Vista. I also read that he really misses Vista at the same time, and has been trying to figure out how to make it work with his hardware and software.

I'd just like to add a footnote to my rather long rant.Though I no longer subscribe to his newsletters (I had to cut quite a few, and his were no longer judged informative enough IMHO), I still respect Chris Pirillo, and did not intent to include him in my reference to "...the "uninitiated" casual user, or the ones that are ignorant enough to think everything they ran on older OSes will instantly run on Vista...." He is neither "uninitiated", casual or ignorant. But someone of his fame and stature in 'Net circles should have researched Vista before blindly playing with it.Maybe that's why I dropped Lockergnome.

[Gary]

Chris's solution? Dump Vista on his main computer. Go back to Windows XP.

I could not disagree more. Of course Chris did not have to pay for his copy of Vista

I'd just like to add a footnote to my rather long rant.Though I no longer subscribe to his newsletters (I had to cut quite a few, and his were no longer judged informative enough IMHO), I still respect Chris Pirillo, and did not intent to include him in my reference to "...the "uninitiated" casual user, or the ones that are ignorant enough to think everything they ran on older OSes will instantly run on Vista...." He is neither "uninitiated", casual or ignorant. But someone of his fame and stature in 'Net circles should have researched Vista before blindly playing with it.Maybe that's why I dropped Lockergnome.

[Guest LilBambi]

I hear ya GM and Gary.But I think Chris does make some good points in his blog entry:Switching from XP to Vista to XP to…?

I was getting ready to post a follow-up on my switch from Vista, but it turned into my next article for CPU Magazine (sorry, you’ll have to wait for it to hit newsstands in a few months). Suffice it to say, it seems I really struck chords and nerves the other day.I’m uneasy, in the sense that Christopher Null’s proposal to re-release Windows XP sounds a helluva lot better to me than waiting two more years for another version of Windows (which is likely to be a radical departure from everything we’ve come to know and understand in Windows itself). So, my plans are: * Keep Vista running on my laptop. Since I don’t rely on that machine for workaday taks, using XP isn’t necessary. However, I’ve already had to reinstall Vista once on that machine (due to a faulty Windows Update execution) - and I’m looking at having to reinstall Windows Vista yet again because something in the system is causing it to run substantially slower than it should - and I think it’s related to the hard drive. * Start using XP on my primary workstation desktop, while keeping Vista 32 and 64 installed and ready on separate system partitions. I’ll have to do this relatively soon, I fear. Microsoft’s IntelliPoint software keeps crashing and the scroll wheel doesn’t work properly in Google Earth, Sound Forge, etc. * Wait another year before trying Windows Vista again - and until/unless XP starts to get in my way, I’m still going to approach Vista SP1 with extreme caution. * Wait another two years (2009) for Microsoft to show me what Vista should have been in the first palce. * After Leopard is released, think about finding a sponsor to do a 30-day “Switch” documentary, running Windows in Parallels / Boot Camp, etc. Crazy idea.FWIW, I still freakin’ LOVE Microsoft - nothing could tear me away from the Xbox 360, I can’t live without my Wireless Laser Mouse 8000, I can’t wait for my Wireless Entertainment Desktop 8000 to arrive, I think they’re more transparent than most tech companies on the planet (especially the way they’ve embraced blogging), I love their Research Labs, I love many of the people who work there, I love wearing my Windows Vista ballcap, I love that WIndows generally does what I need it to do faster than I’ve seen it done on OS X, I love that Windows has the ability to handle a near-infinite variety of hardware, I love my Smartphone……but I still can’t say that I love Vista.

He also makes some really good points in his more recent posts as well here on his blog. Where he is trying to work through where he's going with all of this and his decisions.I think there may be many who are experiencing problems - and - either trying to deal with them because of their rather large investment in Vista, or moving back to WinXP. Not everyone an afford, or simply wishes to buy a new computer with Vista on it to make sure it works for them out of the box at least with the software the computer comes with.

[Guitar Man]

I'll agree that he does make some good points. But the "FWIW" part only confirms the spoiled kid just likes to play around with free or sponsored toys. How can one really take him seriously ? Without trying to come off as patronizing, he is no Scot Finnie or Ed Bott. ****, I'll read John C. Dvorak or re-subscribe to the Langalist instead.

[Guest LilBambi]

Without trying to come off as patronizing, he is no Scot Finnie or Ed Bott. ****, I'll read John C. Dvorak or re-subscribe to the Langalist instead.

I hear ya and agree with you! He's definitely no Scot Finnie or Ed Bott or any one of many other great Windows journalists. But I do enjoy reading what he writes, and I like Chris despite his at times odd ways of doing things or expressing himself.And as set as Chris was in the move to Vista previously, it was a big shock to many that he UPGRADED to WinXP from Vista (at least on his main computer so he could actually get some work done).Course I subscribed to Brian Livingston's WindowsSecrets.com which now has the Fred Langa's Langalist in it since they joined together!

[Guitar Man]

Course I subscribed to Brian Livingston's WindowsSecrets.com which now has the Fred Langa's Langalist in it since they joined together!

In the beginning I thought he was the best thing since sliced bread. But he seems to feed from what his subscribers send him, and rarely discovers gems on his own. Langa could use some help in the credibility department IMHO. Again, I could be way off in left base with my view of him. But what scraped my nerves eventually was that he was fond of posting tips from users that started out with idol-like praise for him. Humility is not one of his strong points, unlike many others that are not afraid to post what's on their minds.I want the facts, just the facts.Livingston (though not another of my faves) has improved his research methods. The latter's newsletter was one of the subscriptions I canceled. Maybe I'll sign on again for a while. Maybe both will know greater success together.To each his own I guess...

[Specmon]

But what scraped my nerves eventually was that he was fond of posting tips from users that started out with idol-like praise for him. Humility is not one of his strong points, unlike many others that are not afraid to post what's on their minds.

I had the same problem with the Langalist. I got tired of reading through the sryupy Fred Worship before getting to the issue at hand. I also got tired of how the "premium" content more and more often became "management" of the List, or dealing with Fred's vacation schedules. His paltry contributions to the new combined newsletter show pretty clearly how thin his own work has become. To be fair, Fred probably has the same problem that Scot talked about regarding WinXP: there is only so much that can be said about the several year old operating system that hasn't already been said repeatedly. But it got to the point that I no longer saw the value of a paid subscription, and as happened to Lockergnome, Fred's work seemed less worth the time to read.It's amazing how things can change in just a couple years, isn't it?